♪ ♪ welcome to al jazerra. i am morgan radford and here are the top stories we are following right now. the countdown is underway on capitol hill where lawmakers are considering legislation that would keep the government running past next tuesday, but not everyone is on board. texas senator ted cruz has been talking for roughly 10 hours to draw attention to his attempt to block the affordable care act. cruz says he'll continue speaking against obama care until he is no longer able to stand. in nairobi, you can see live pictures here where it's the first of theo visual days of mourning for victims of kenya's mall attack. at least 72 people were killed. kenyans military is still trying to make sure that they found all the rebels inside of the mall.

the fbi says it's now investigating whether any americans took part in the attack. both has found a new use for old f-16s, it's turning them no drones. the company is retrofitting retired fight jets for unmanned use, they are now being test bide u.s. air force pilots over the gulf of mexico. the new drones could be eventually used to help train air force pilots by serving as flying targets, and those are thare the headlines, "consider this" is up next. and remember you can always get the later online at aljazerra.com. thanks for watching. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> president obama trying to make nice with iran in his

speech to the u.n. along with a healthy dose of skepticism. "consider this," will we see what the president called the long road toward a different relationship or will this new effort at diplomacy crash like others in the past? also, any just a minute court bans the muslim brotherhood. will that cause another violent backlash? taylor swift is making 10s of millions of dollars a year. so why are the majority of musicians struggle to go break even. i am antonio mora welcome to "consider this." we begin with iran. the other you would meeting of leaders at the united nations held more intrigue than usual when it seemed as if the first meeting between an iranian and u.s. prison since the revolution in 1979 might actually half but despite conciliatory words, there was no rendezvous. and there is no easy path to reconciliation. as al jazerra -- as al jazerra's courtney reports after all the

friendly tweets from iran and an old-fashioned pen pal relationship between the two presidents, they couldn't manage to swing a handshake at iran. >> iran is the anchor of stability is an otherwise ocean of regional instabilities. >> reporter: newly-elected president declared that iran is ready for peace and to engage in nuclear talks. >> iran poses absolutely no threat for the world or the regis. >> reporter: but the words came in the midst of sharp criticism of u.s. policy. >> the ex-instrument actions such as the use of drones against innocent people in the name of combat and terrorism should also be condemned. >> reporter: an insistent that iran's nuclear program is for peaceful purposes. >> nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction have

no place in iran's security and defense doctrine. >> reporter: president obama officially opened the doors to diplomacy. >> we are encouraged that he received from the iranian people a mandate to pursue a more moderate course. the roadblocks may prove to be too great. i firmly believe the diplomatic path must be tested. >> reporter: president obama also announced that u.s. secretary of state john kerry will try to start the dialogue thursday when he's scheduled to meet the iranian foreign minister along with five other world powers. the iranian foreign minister took to twitter to hail this historic opportunity to resolve the nuclear issue. but skepticism remains high. according to u.s. officials, the iranians declined the white house's over cur overture to arn encounter. he skipped a u.s. lunch because alcohol was with the milk. he also didn't want to encounter president obama face-to-face. courtney al jazerra, new york.

>> joining me now to talk what's going on behind the scenes with the u.s. and iran is hillary mann who served on the security council did you ever the born w. bush and clinton administration. she's the author of going to iran. joining us from our washington, d.c. studio. and the founder and president of the national iranian american council, he is also in washington, d.c. tonight. thank you both for joining us. president obama didn't stay to listen to the iranian president's speech instead he was at the big clinton foundation event in new york. but the iranian president made clear he did pay attention to president obama. >> i listened wailly t carefulle statement made by president obama today at the general assembly. in recent years, a dominant voice has been repeatedly heard. the military option is on the table. against a backdrop of this illegal and ineffective

contention, let me say loud and clear that peace is within reach. >> hillary, a lot of interesting stuff in that speech. what stood out to you about his remarks? >> well, there is a difference, of course, between his remarks and those of his predecessor, the former president, but i don't think the substance is all that different. i think with this president we have someone who is very experienced in international law, international affairs, both he and his foreign minister has ph.ds from western institutions in international law. i negotiated personally with iran's current foreign minister 10 years ago over afghanistan. it was one of the most constructive negotiations that the united states has had. i think we do have an historic opportunity in terms of the team that we have from iran. we also have something that has been much maligned here in washington but i think is very, very important, what happened to the united states and the president, over this threat to

use force with syria, which the president was not able to do, is very important. while it's being maligned here as a sign of weakness it's critical that the united states does not really have the credible use or threat of force just to wave around like it did in iraq or libya. this is something very important on the iranian side, i think it means that there is a real chance for a negotiated outcome and that's what the iranians are focused on. >> you were not able to listen to him speaking in person, but you have watched some of the speech. what about his demeanor and the way he delivered his speech and his words, it really does seem like a very substantial departure from his predecessor. >> i certainly believe it was a night and day performance compared. this is not a person that is trying to shock the world with his words. and so far the only thing that has caused surprise regarding the world's attention is the constructive things that he has

said. i think to a certain extent, the most important thing that will happen this week is what's going to happen on thursday, when they will be meeting with secretary john kerry. that historic meeting seems to have kind of fallen in the shadows of the fact that there was a missing handshake. the meeting thursday is quite historic. and i think that there is a good chance that someone constructive will come out that have. >> i will go there. but i want to talk more about his general demeanor in this speech and tritta. with you thing that he said tonight just a little while ago in an interview on cnn, he talked accepting that the holocaust actually took place something that was constantly denied. and he said that it was a great crime against the jews bite naze nazis. again another very big did he far true. >> certainly. he said early on part of the purpose of him coming here was

to make some you are that he would show what he called iran's true face, consider patting from what was happening in the past eight years. of course at the end of the day there has to also be developments on the nuclear front in order for there to be a breakthrough here. but i agree with hillary, the team that is in charge the policy in iran right now and is conducting foreign policy is a very experienced team that has a very long history of having reached out to the united states. and have tried in the past to forge a better relationship. i think it is because they do have a strategic outlook which they view between the united states and iran as a strategic thanecessity for the region as a whole. >> talking about that attitude i want to play a clip of his first english message to americans from that cnn interview. >> i would like to say to

american people i bring peace and friendship from iranians to americans. >> hihillary i hate to keep harping on form rather than substance, it's very hard to receive -- he almost looks pastoral. >> there is an important difference from the previous administration in iran with this one, both in form and substance, but i caution against putting too much stock in to the dramatic differences. we really risque serious problem for the united states. this idea that he said that he was going wipe israel off the map and the holocaust never happened. those were our miss translations our rhetorical flourishes from here in washington. we make a big mistake demonizing it and putting it all in his

lap. there are real differences and he and president obama gave different speeches tonight, he put out a speech for constructive engagement, for diplomacy, for negotiated outcomes to even difficult and seemingly intractable problems like syria. obama gave a different speech. he gave a speech that we are going to try diplomacy but the united states is still the exceptional power in the world and we will use force when we think it's necessary. they are very different world views and there is a difference in substance. that said, having negotiated with foreign minister, now foreign minister, and having met this president, i do think that we have an historic opportunity, but it's not open-ended. this team does not have a carte blanche in iran. there is real accountability. there are elections and there is a -- there is a domestic political scene that will make it not possible for negotiations just to be carried out indefinitely without any return

for iran. >> i mean, in effect the white house was amenable to a meeting between the two presses at the u.n. and it was the eye ru iranians t scuttled it. wouldn't it have worked even if it had been behind closed doors? >> i think the most important thing is that there will be a meeting between john kerry on thursday. though i personally have to say i am disappointed the. i was moping hoping for a hand. what i think is happening on the eyiranian side they know very wl there will be a political price to be paid for the handshake. and what i think was important for them was to make sure that they had something concrete to bring back with them to teheran in order to be able to defend the handshake. absent that concession or whatever it is that they were looking for, they seem to be hesitant to go forward with the handshake. the interesting thing is that from the american side, it seems easy to give a symbolic gesture, but it's quite difficult to give something on substance. on the iranian side, it seems

like the symbolic measures are actually more difficult to give than the substantive. >> well, because the hard liners in iran are not thrilled with this -- >> can i please. >> let me just give you a quote from the deputy chief of the iranian armed forces. he said that freezing eye run crane assets, downing an iranian passenger plane, sangs, espionage and terrorism are only a part of america's dark file in their relations with eye run craniranianmember luck. clearly they are not happy about what has gone on. >> the idea in washington that iran would be happy, grateful for a behind the card or handshake really underestimates the sophistication and the endurance of the islamic republic. i was in the meeting with then secretary of state colin powell and iran's foreign minister, at the united nations in november 2001. right after nine lear 9/11 and e

talking about afghanistan. there was a handshake then, what happened then, president bush delivered the axis of evil speech. they are not just in for a handshake in order to be clobbered later on by more us sanctions or mill terries tick rhetoric or worse, they need something concrete to take home and perhaps this meet on the ground thursday between the foreign minister and secretary kerr could i give them just that. i hope so. >> but the concern, of course, in the united states and israel is that this could be like north korea, that the ey iranians are just stretching us along in order to be able to develop their nuclear weapons while the admission about the holocaust is certainly a relief to some extent in israel, prime minister netanya hugh is not buy these gestures let's listen to what he had to. >> nick north korea before it, iran will try to remove ankles

ankleses. he will not be happy. with a smokescreen and the world shut not be fooled either he also said a bad agreement was worse than no agreement. trita, do you agree? >> i think the latter quote from natural an yet an an i can't hus their real concern, they believe that every agreement would be a bad agreement and it's worse than having no agreement. the status quo is preferred to any negotiated outcome the israelis know an negotiated outcome will have to be a compromise, they will have to give something but also have to get something. and that's worst because there is a clear divergence from the israel and i american as well as from the saudi and american interest. and there is a concern if there is a breakthrough with with iran it comes at the expense of the

relationship between israel and the united states. >> as you both have mentioned on thursday secretary of state john kerry will meet with iran's american-educated foreign minister, he studied with former secretary of state madeline all bright's father and he tweeted early today that we have a historic opportunity to resolve the nuclear issue. irrelevant both optimistic that this will be something that is worthwhile. there las not been a meeting like this since 1979. you are both off at this mystic. hillary, i will give that you. >> there was a meeting after nine learn and there wa9/11 ando it happened before. you have two countries the united states and the republic of iran. it's destined to happen. that's why i wrote my book going to teheran, i am op advertise o.

>> trita? >> i am hopeful but i think it will take a tremendous amount of bill. this is not a technical issue it's a issue of will. it has to exist on both sides. the problem is the window is extremely brief. if it's not done in the next couple of months this opportunity will be lost. >> more than three decades of conflict, let's hope we can make some progress. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. coming up next, an egyptian court has banned all activities of the muslim brotherhood. the once ruling party is now outlawed. what does that mean no egyptian. what do you think? there are millibring the questir or facebook and google plus pages, we'll be right back. netaa

>> a kay yo court issued an injunction that pending appeal did solved the muslim brotherhood the same organization that took power through the ballot box last year. at least a thousand brotherhood supporters were killed in july avi i didn't want's army deposed egyptian president mohamed morrisey a leader of the brotherhood. now a powerful new frontline documentary i didn't want? egypt in crisis follows the from two years ago to military rule today in a sharply divided fragile land. if more i am very pleased to be joined from boston by charles senate, correspondent for the frontline program and founding editor of global post. charles appreciate you being with us tonight. the muslim brotherhood. >> good to be with you. >> talked about gradual reform before they were pushed from power. but many of the reforms were

things that a lot of people in the country were not happy about. this court ruling on monday, which may or may not stand, but if it does stand, it will drive the brotherhood underground. what do you think will actually happen? will they go underground as they had been for most of the 20th century? >> you know, the ruling by this court, it should be noted, is a very obscure court. as you pointed out. i am not sure it will stand were the washington post was reporting late this afternoon that a cabinet minister has actually decided to postpone that ruling. i think it definitely reveals that there is honester within the military rulers who are controlling egypt, to do precisely what this court decided should be done, which is to ban the muslim brotherhood. the muslim brother hard, you know, has been around for decades. they have a narrative that is very much about survival, about

sustaining through all of these years and fighting for what they believe in. as you said, it's sort of about moderation, bits been about a societal movement. but when they actually took power, i think even some of their supporters would say that they move too fast. they put forward a constitution that was too islamist, that the egyptian people didn't like, that they felt we tried the egyptian character and they paid the price for it. 20 million people took to the streets on june 30th and said they don't want this government led by morsi this party that emerges out of the muslim brotherhood. the tension and the political dynamics are still very much at work here, and what is going to happen with the muslim brotherhood is the big question in the air right now. >> if the court decision does stand and you factor everything else that has happened over the part couple of months and how the military has gone after the muslim brotherhood. some of its main leaders are in custody. if they go underground what do you see happening? you spent a lot time there.

are they going back to terrorism? could there even be a civil war this. >> you know, the muslim brotherhood has claimed it rejected violence a long time ago and embraced democracy. that's what set them apart from a lot of more islamic, more militant factions like egypt islamic jihad who reject democracy. so you have to look at the brotherhood when yo whether youe them or you don't. [speaking at the same time] >> but that movement -- >> didn't they resort to violence after the military deposed morsi? >> yeah. i mean, i think the street demonstrations grew violent, there was confrontation in the streets, that's absolutely true. but i don't think that's the same as terrorism or sustained effort to use violence to achieve their end. i mean, i think from their point of view, from what we saw in the street, they were protesting the detention of what they felt was

the democratically elected president y just of egypt. i feel very uncomfortable defending the muslim brotherhood, failed government, i don't want to do that. but it's important for the american public to understand how it's viewed on the streets of egypt. and that is that the muslim brotherhood is not going away any time soon. they are a powerful force politically. they were democratically elected to 40% of parliament. they won the presidency. the idea that you could somehow push them underground and they will go away, i think, whether you support their ideas or not, is just impractical, it's no the going work. >> and you show in your film how the muslim brotherhood plays a big role in charity, providing security, distributing foot and blankets, supplying medical care and jobs, things that many of the brotherhood supporters need. what happens to those people who relied on the brotherhood's charity if the organization gets banned? >> i mean, ironically k.the brotherhood may be strongest as

an outlawed party. as a party that is going operate in a way in which they cling to this victim narrative. where they say, look the powers that be in egypt don't want us in charge but we'll continue to serve the poor people through kindergartens, health clinics through all the services that they provide. some of that game is up. the egypt people saw law the brotherhood ruled. many, many egyptians admired the social services they providessed. buprovided.but then saw that hey did in power. did not protect we want or christians, gave too much power to the military and it was a failure. that i think is almost indisputable. i have even talked to muslim brotherhood members who won't put up much resistence when you say there was a failing government. what really needs to be sorted now is as they move towards this

underground movement again, where they, again, are quite comfortable, they are going to continue to organize. and they are going to try to play a role in politics and they will try to reorganize. and i think the idea that you can somehow crush them as mubarak did for so many decades isn't pac practical, it won't happen. they express a part of society that believes in hair long-term goals. and i think it's a mistake for anyone watching egypt and anyone who cares about the desires of egypt to become democratic to think that you can just take a part of the country that had 40% of parliament and tell them you no longer can have any part of it. i don't think it will work and i am not sure it's very smart. >> we have a question from social media. let's go to hermela for that. >> on twitter rowand says the muslim brotherhood has been

banned in egypt almost the entire time since the 1952 revolution. what difference does this ban make? >> well, the big difference would be that they were banned for many decades as this viewer right ry pointrightly points oue there was a decision to push for democracy, to oppose mubarak and move towards elections which was the first free and fair elections in egypt's 5,000 years of history, that changed everything. because then they merged as a legal political party and showed that they do have a following. remember, they won 40% of the seats in parliament and that's significant. they also won the presidency. it's true this they were up against a government regime candidate who no one wanted so many people who voted for morsi weren't necessarily voting for the muslim brotherhood. but democracy is a messy business, and do now push them back underground and say you are outlawed and banned again, i

think ironically they may be comfortable in that role in organizing and get bag being to their roots, it's a mistake to think that you can somehow snuff out all of the political power that you have. >> can you talk about the deep state, the military and other elements of an establishment there. let's play a clip from your movie. >> revolution ai air is and liberals hoped the new constitution would restrain egypt's deep stake. >> one of the big did he phafrpbtdz egypt revolution was to say we don't want anymore torture or abuse from the security services, no more civilians being tried in military court and so forth and so on. >> we wanted to have something

in the contusion against tour true, against police brutality. we want go ahead something in the contusion that limited the power of the militant. rather than curb it gave them everything that they wanted. >> charles, in some ways the morsi government went too far in one direction, but then didn't go far enough? >> yeah. i mean, the deep state is a concept that's real important to understand. it's a word that you hear so often in egypt these days and basically to define the deep state just a little bit, i think of it like a pyramid. at the base of the pyramid there are 350,000 soldiers who formed the egyptian military. in the middle brick by brick you have their economic control over much y just a minute. some estimates say that it's as much as 40% of the private sex tsector of the economy is controlled by the mail theory. then top of that the police forces, security forces, supreme

council of the allied forces and the general who is effectively in charge in egypt. it's a soiled structure and right embedded in the middle of it is the $1.3 billion in u.s. aid to the egyptian military. the deep state has been in control for a very long time. some argue they controlled mubarak. what's clear is that they are in control now. what's up for question, and i think some really smart analysts would say, they never lost control. that even when the square began to erupt and the military began to turn its support toward the protesters in the square, and the military began to uphold their yearnings. the question is did they ever really let go? and when the muslim brotherhood rose to power democratically, did they play a game where they thought if they gave countenance to the military, allowed them do what they want to do. >> this they would survive. >> would there be some implicit deal that they would survive. if the muslim brotherhood was

playing that game it failed and they lost. >> all right, charles, really appreciate you being on tonight. the document is a frontline documentary called egypt in crisis. >> thank you. >> appreciate your time. coming up al jazerra american's continuing coverage of the cost of health care. i will talk to a woman looking forward to obama care because health care caused her to file bankruptcy.

>> every sunday night al jazeera america presents gripping films, from the worlds top documentary directors >> this is just the beginning of somthing much bigger... >> this sunday...the premier of "budrus" >> the primary concern of the fronts is security that trumps everything >> how could a wall designed to divide, unite israelis and palestinians al jazeera america presents... "budrus" premiers this sunday night 9 eastern. this week we are bringing you a series owe on the patient protection and affordable care act also known as a bomb a care, we'll show you the real immaterial park it will have

positive and negative a americans, tonight we'll look at the benefits of removal the caps on coverage and the rising cost of premiums. the kaiser family foundation found that employer sponsored health coverage has shot up in cost since the year 2000. these are the rises in average premium costs paid by the employee and employer combined. since the year 2000, a single person's premium have much more than doubled to $5,884. a family of four's premium has come close to tripling since 2000. they went up to $16,351 this year. so how is this effecting all of us? steve wolf is a stunt and special effects coordinator who joins us from austin, texas, he is not the biggest fan of obama care, since his health care premiums could double in cost from just less than $7,000 for his family of five to $14,000 a year. those annual costs could be about 10% of his pre-tax income. stacy ritter joins us from

elizabeth town, pennsylvania, health care costs put her family no bankruptcy before obama care, she supports the law. her twin girls went through cancer treatment when they were just four years old you the costs were capped so they had to spend out of park feed some treatments and struggled to get some of the medication their girls needed. i thank you both for joining us to talk about this important topic. you know, we hear a lot of talk, the political back and forth in washington, tuesday was all about senator ted cruz's bill putter ofillbust ore obama caret most the day talking on the senate floor. we don't hear much about the real world impact. stacy i want to talk to you first, you had twin girls that needed bone marrow transplants at the age of four. how much of a difference would obama care have made back then? >> i believe that it would have helped with the caps. they would have been eliminated. so we wouldn't have had to seek a secondary insurance in order to pay for it.

the cost and the follow-up care and treatment care would also be covered because it would be considered preventive. so it would have help aheaded alleviate some of the specialist co-pay that his we had to pay because when you are seeing, you know, five special specialistst $30 a piece for two girls, that's a lot of money to a family of four or six mind you. >> getting your insurer for human growth ho* hormone that te girls needed later on. >> it was in the formulary of medicines that they were supposed to cover and they kept refuse to go cover it, saying it wasn't medically necessary even their on physician insisted that it was, we went back and forth with denials. >> now, steve, as we mentioned earlier your premiums could increase dramatically, $7,000 because you are not within four times of the poverty -- you are

not eligible for the subsidies. and the amount that it would -- you would be paying total for your family of five would be 10% of your pre-tax income. how is that going to impact your life? >> that's going to have a monumental impact. our health care expenses are already high. and nationally, i can only imagine what is going to happen to health care costs when everyone can get all of the health care they want and there is no cap on the spending. that's going to increase the total size of the pie and everyone's slice is just going to get bigger. we are definitely feeling it. you know, we live okay, we don't have to hunt for water and shelter every night, but pretty much every dollar we make, you know, goes out to something. >> and you run a small business did. >> yeah, we run a small business, we have eight employees, two are full-time. we were going to be bringing the other six onto pulling-time there & there is no way we can do that now. and other business owners that i

have spoken with said the same thing they are cut back hours because they can't afford to have people on full-time. >> we are going address the impact on businesses tomorrow. stacy, you said your premiums would also go up, but you are okay with that especially because of what we were taking about about the cap on his coverage and the fact that preexisting conditions, that that would not be an issue when you went to get new insurance. how big of a difference did the caps make in your case? >> well, the caps made a huge difference. but our rate of -- our premiums were going up anyway. over the past 15 years our premiums have went up dramatically. so it -- they have been skyrocketing since before the implementation of the affordable care act. so what the affordable care act is doing is actually leveling off the increases. and they are not in the law they are not allowed to charge more than eight or nine and a half

percent of your income, your taxable income for it. so i am not sure why they are able in texas to charge him 10% of his income. if they don't spends 80 to 85% on his care they have to reimburse him and we have already seen reimburse little because they haven't spent the 80 to 85% on our care here with our premiums. and we are also at a disadvantage because we live in states that have refused to implement -- to use the federal fund to go help implement the law. other states that have already started to expand the medicare to more citizens they have seen their rates actually come down. so i believe that it's up to the states now, which the supreme court did decide it was, to help bring those costs down. so unfortunately, texas and pennsylvania are behind. >> now, steve, there have been reports recently that the biggest reason families in this country file for bankruptcy is

because of health care. why isn't the law good thing if it means protecting family like stacys from having to go in to bankruptcy from protecting their children and going in in to bankruptcy. >> no law or piece of legislation is good or bad and it's usually a mix. and it certainly sounds like in stacy's case there provisions of the law that are absolutely he zip slam for her, for her financial survivor. in my case there are provisions of the law that are not so good. i am being forced to purchase services that my family doesn't need and probably won't use. i was able to pick and use exactly what type of coverage i wanted to to have before and i picked what we could afford. now my policy is going to double, it's going to cost me a later of money to pay for services that we don't need. i would lover to be in a position where, you know, the government mandated that people came and bought my service and there was no cap to what they

could spend and the taxpayers pick it up, but that's really pinching us in the pocket. >> and stacy, to steve's point we know your situation was something no parent should have to go through. but should people like steve have to pay for it t*? it? millions of americans are paying thousands of dollars more because of changes that obama care kicked in in the year 2013 without getting any benefit for what they are paying. so should all of these people have to, you know, pay that much more in order to cover, you know, a family like yours? >> no, i am paying for my own family and i am also paying in to it. we need to be more of a collective society here in this country and understand that our people are our greatest resource and our greatest investment. i believe that health care is a human right not a privilege. and i don't -- you know, steve and my family, we are already paying for those people that are uninsured. that's why our rates have been increasing because somebody has to pay for those people that don't vin surance, who show up

at the emergency room and show up at the doctors when it's too late because they couldn't afford insurance or pre10 sr*epb tiff care. we are all already paying for that and we have been for a long time by forcing them to take some personal responsibility and bying in to the system bike everybody else, you know, in the free market, right, if everybody pays in, then it should start to bring the cost down. >> absolutely i agree with you. >> but everyone has to pay in first. >> and, stacy, you know, i am happy to contribute to the needs of any family that has a dire situation such as yours, or people who end up in the e.r. and can't afford coverage. this is tripling the costs of health care for young people, i employ guys in their 20s who use no medical care and now they are paying trip the rate that they paid before. if we are paying for the people

of the needs that immediate it, you aim good with that but we are paying for a tremendous amount of waste and built-in profit. >> i don't see preventive karras waste. i really don't. >> i don't either. >> people start, you know. >> the way the law is written. [speaking at the same time] >> i ask yo you to please approh your legislators ask them why instead of standing up there and pretends to go repeal allow that they know they cannot have any chance of repealing, john mccain said it himself. why don't they try to find ways to fix what you say is going to happen. offer solutions, don't offer false promises. >> steve, final word. >> that's what we need to. >> on. >> they just want to be on the record of coming down on the right side of what their constituents want and not have to take the responsibility for acting on it because we know it can't happen anyway. >> all right. stacy, steve, i wish both of you

and your families the best as we move forward and the new health care law comes in to place and the exchange kick in on october 1st and we'll continue to cover that over the next few days, i really appreciate your time tonight. and tomorrow we will continue al jazerra's look at the cost of the health care with the focus small businesses and we want to hear your thoughts, so complete pleis go to our website al jazerra.com/considerthis and become a part of our conversation by up loading a video of how owe bomb care will affect your small business. coming up, would you rather own a two-bedroom apartment or your own private island with a castle? that question may not be as ridiculous as it sounds. the data dive is up next.

>> our data dive takes a leap off the high price of manhattan real estate. new york apartments can go for princely sums. but would you believe that you can get a european castle for the cost of a one bedroom? there is a very nice skewed studio apartment in midtown manhattan that has a beautiful bathroom and living space but it's only about 474 square feet. the asking price, $1.8 million. again, $1.8 million. buzz feed points out you can get this castle in southwest france for a lot less.

1.62 million. granted it, needs a little work but it overlooks the country side, has a grand staircase, various wings with terraces and it even has its own chapel. now, check out this six bedroom six and a half bathroom mansion just outside nashville, tennessee, it's a beautiful living space built with natural stone and fully insulated. you would get 8,972 square feet, that is 19 times the size of the studio we saw earlier. the asking price, just less than $1.5 million. 300,000 less than the tiny studio that's probably smaller than the master bath at this house. back to new york's painful i high prices this is a plush two bedroom apartment right by central park selling for $5.85 million. two and a half marble bathrooms a fully loaded kitchen and a concierge with maid service, it's beautiful but is it worth

twice the amount of this island. you can buy a whole island in the adriatic sea pwaoeutz shor s of croatia as for $2.9 million. or that pretty space steps from central park. i guess it's all about location, location, location. >> just for fun, forks.com priced out -- fo forbes.com prid out the cost of fictional products. tera from gone with the wind would cot $17.8 million. tony stark's bachelor pat would go for $50.8 million. the most expensive fictional only, san du xanadu $600 millio8 of those real life studios we showed you before. so you want to be a famous musician and make a lot of money? well, how about having your song played a million times and it could only net you a whopping $17. we'll explain next.

golden age of hollywood going golden but elsewhere. why l.a.'s mayor has declared a state of emergency for the entertainment industry there. next.

>> getting your favorite songs for free is not new, but for an industry that has suffered extreme lows a new lands mark ruling is surprising. pandora an online radio streaming service won a federal

court case brought by music publishers. the decision holds pandora's right to play all the competitions in the ask cap catalog. they hope this will put an ask by publish he is t publishers. what does it mean for the music industry and how will it affect musicians, joining us from phoenix is bill former arts editor for npr and via skype from athens georgia is singer, songwriter. it's a whole new world, we have tradition radio, satellite radio, we have the itunes of the world. these music streamin streaming , c.d.s are still out there. royalties depends how the music is played, where it's being played. can you try to explain how musicians make their money, especially with the whole music streaming thing.

>> well, an teen yo thanks for having me and ale try. it's such a complicated world. this is something where a whole lot of lawyers got involved really early on. you have to remember that the music business is one of the more corrupt industries that we have in america and they sort of devoted themselves to keeping as much money from artists as ever had and all of this combines with the absolute vaporization of the music industry. so basically you have heard about rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. these are people who are fudging the books of the titanic. so that's sort of the setting for this. the one thing we could know is there are a couple of royalties, one is if you are the songwriter or the actual performer. so for a beatles song, john and paul are getting paid money every time it's played on the radio because they wrote the song. but the beatles, george and ringo get month money when it's played on the radio, because radio plays only songwriting royalties and not performance royalties. now a whole lot of other things

like these new streaming services, the music industry said we are not going to let you not get away with just playing the songwriters so they have the songwriting which is publishing and the performance. so you have two streams of royalties, right, but then you have these myriad forms. you don't just sale cds anymore, you have radios and cds, you have juke boxes and pan dora, spotify, another form of streaming. video games, placement in commercials, placement in tv shows, movies and myriad others. each of these all with royalties coming on different minuscule percentages and being paid to songwriters and performers and record companies. >> on payment we are you listen to all of that, you think musicians must be making a ton of money dade the royalty you received as a song writer from pandora was $16.80 some cents for the song low, a zonk yours being played more than a million teams. now, as a songwriter you own 40%

of that song that means that pandora paid everybody $42.25. your song being played again and again and again online as a result these streaming sites, how do you make my money from this? >> well, yes. that's true. i mean, when you look at that, and you say, where else do you get a million of anything exempt maybe the old lear a for $17. right? a million of anything for $17 or total $42 for everybody involved in writing the songs, is a little crazy. i also get a little money as a performer, i am one of the lucky ones i am also the performer, so i get another $151 also from that million. i should be clear. the main problem, though, is that -- the main problem, though, is that in this country,

unlike almost every other country in the world. we have decide today force song writers to license their songs. furtherer we set the rate based, the government actually sort of mandates that we have to let the web casters use our songs and we also set the price through this rate court in new york. now here we are, the bastion of capitalism and we've got the government regulating songs and setting prices like it's nylons and it's world war ii or sugar or supplying. it's bizarre, i don't know what the right price for a song is. make it's a little more than

that, maybe it's a lot more than that. i know it's not the rate we are getting paid right now because there is no free market in songs. >> we have a social media question for you. hermela, let's go to you for that. >> thank, antonio. david, after news broke that pandora won their court case a lot of people on social media felt musicians and artists were wronged by the outcome of the case. but for music -- for musicians are there any positives to a --o music services bike pandora and spotify? >> yes. let me talk about there is web casting and there is streaming. streaming is on demand, web casting is you don't really get to choose the song. you get paid a lot more from streaming services. and it's a percentage of revenue. so if, in fact, you are paying for premium spotify, more money is going to the artists, okay? if you are using the ad service, you know, artists, the ad

supported services artists are getting fairly -- well, it's not great for artists. >> and, bilker the reality is that even when you are talking cds, if you look at the economics of cds, as a songwriter you can make a lot of money if you self publish your cd'ss as some artists have done, they are making $8 on a $9..99 cd. but it's being sold out there as a retail album the artist is bone getting a dollar and the label is getting a dollar. but what is really surprising when you download a full album at 9.99, the label is getting $5.35 sent and the artist is only getting 9 94 crepts how 94s that work? >> this is interesting. what happened when we went to the digital era. this is a point where i might agree with bill on this, is that the artists' royalties remain the same, but the record labels'

costs shank dramatically. >> that's the question i wanted to ask bill. in digital you've got no production costs. so how in the world is the label making all of that money and the or sift is actually making less? >> well, it's that all of these deals were cut before everyone understood how the digital age was going to evolve and some artists were suing the companies a lot saying, hey, a digital download is like when a movie uses our song. because they generally split those proceeds and the labels said, no, no, when you sell it digitally you still only get your dollar royalty. you know, frankly, it didn't even cost the labels that much to make those cds, you know, we think that it's all expensive, but it was really a quarter or 50 cents and artists are always going to get roughly 10% of that money. so what's happened now, of course, is once artists -- artists are smart and have smart managers and as time has moved on they have gotten higher and higher royalty rates for these sorts of things, but, again,

it's not going to matter that much because cd sales, i mean, they are a quarter of what they were 10 years ago, people are buying one fourth as many. and i think that maybe, and i would like to know what david things about this, the model might be spotify. of the problem with pandora is that you get a very small per stream rate. a small percentage i've cent but that's because one person is listening to it. with radio 10,000 people might go listening to it. spotify, the listener gets to choose, you do get a little more money, spotify makes the argument it's like renting, if you buy a bruce springstein album and listen to it 10,000 times, how much per time listening did you pay for, if you get a nickel per track on spotify which i think is about right, overtime, over 10 years that might actually add up to a lot of money. >> i want to get one last question in. we are seeing some of the big brands -- >> you don't get a nickel a

track on spotify, you get about -- all rights holders the record labels, publishers, artists get about .6 of a cent. >> forgive me, yeah, half a cent. >> 110th of that. spotify could be the way. but the rates need to go up. they need to pay higher rates, aim sorts of agnostic on spotify it's the right idea but doesn't pay enough by my back of the matchbook calculations. >> it's very low. guys, we have to leave it there. the big brand names are making money, rihannas and taylor swifts. world but an entertainment lawyer pointed out that wasn'ting long ago artists were getting $3 million deals and that has -- those days are long gone. appreciate you being with us tonight. the show may be over, but the conversation continues on our website aljazerra.com/consider ialjazerra.com/considerthis or n our facebook or google plus

pages you can also go to ajconsiderthis on twitter. we'll see you next time. these are some of the story that his we are following right now. promising to keep going until he can't stand anymore, republican senator ted cruz has been talking for nearly 12 hours trying to defund obama care. and the handshake that never was. president obama and iran's president didn't shake hands, but they did offer encouraging words for a diplomatic that you. the kenyan mall attack is finally over. and three days of mourning have begun. 63 civilians and five militants are now dead. and 11 al shabab fighters are now under arrest. and the death toll from a strong earthquake in pakistan continues