>> hi, i'm lisa fletcher here in the stream. you probably never heard of it, about i bet you drank what comes from there. stream water. it runs through the town and is dividing it over the question, who has the right to own water? filling in tonight for our digital producer, and this is a show that our community does. >> normally, we have a regular

call on the on facebook and twitter, and we received an interesting link to community justice. and it leads to a photo that says no to the 45-year water contract. and we asked, what could this be about? and we started looking at the water company and out the story came. so remember, this is a live conversation, and it's still going on as we speak. feel free to join in the conversation by using the hash tall or our facebook pang. >> so next time you grag a bottle of spring water, you may not recognize the name under the cap. it's where you find the evergreen stream. that's the source of the controversy. it's owner, fryburg, is privately owned. and it's good for up to 45 years with the springs company, it's under the name of the public utilities commission, but all three have ties to nestle.

two have chosen to recuse themselves while the others have not. afraid this will deplete their water supply, some in the town have organized to get nestle out and take back their precious natural resource. the debate over water. he has been covering friberg and the conflict of interest with the utilities commission. on skype, thomas welch. he has yesterday to decide whether to recuse himself in it. and bruce taylor is actively working against nestle's control over the water, and mike is in favor of the nestle contract. and we asked nestle to join the program tonight. and the company spokes people declined. so colin, let me start with you. you've been covering this story in-depth for a very long time.

frame it for us. what's going on with friberg? >> friberg is a small town. 3500 people. and it has excellent geology and the waterrists excellent. and it has a utility which serves the town and the neighboring town in new hampshire that is private held of the it was set up in the 1880s. and since the 1990s, this utility has been the source of water in friberg for poland spring water. there has been a lot of controversy in the count, the nestles involvement in friberg. some are happy they're there, and some are not. and the current chapter has to do with this 25-year contract,

which would cement nestle's relationship with the local utility and lock in a stable pricing arraignment and a revenue stream for the utility. >> that sounds reasonable and why would people be opposed to that? >> it's a philosophical question that drives the debate in friberg, whether or not water should be a commodity, or whether water is a public resource like the air that shouldn't be bought and sold in this way. nestle's other pumping stations and springs, where it gets poland spring water, in the towns that it operates have been good. the long-term exception has been friberg, and a lot of it has to do, nestles doesn't own the spring water, but rather, they're getting the water from the local utility that serves

all of the customers in the area, and there's a history with that. so so there's a lot of distrustn the town. and if you boil it down, the question is, do you feel that water should be modified and sold? and there's a resource that's under the ground, is it something that should be tapped on for profit or does it belong to the community in a sense? >> tom a. of the utilities commissions, and we look at friberg and is there a concern that the town is running out of water? is that a real issue? >> it certainly is a real issue, in the sense that the people have raised it as one the concerns about the contract being approved. a concern that a couple of dimensions. under the new contract, the incentive for nestle to extract

more water than it has in the past. and as you pointed out, the contract exists for a long time. one of the things that the commission pays attention to is whether the utility involved in the contract like this can continue for adequate serve. so clearly on some level, the issue of whether a contract would result in the copy's inability to provide that service something that would come in. >> the community is divide odd this. particularly in friberg, but watch out for nestle. they think that the water should be controlled by them. and david adams, who should roll it, the government? and nicki says the local people should control it. who else? bruce, what do you think about the commentaries that we're receiving? >> i think it's a really good question, who really controls the water, and obviously, the water in this case is privately

owned. a larger question is, is the utility getting a fair rate for its water? because this reflects back to the rate payers, and i think this reflects back to the community. and i think that an overarching problem in all of this is that there really isn't an overall plan for water in the state of maine. >> nestle gets a 45-year contract, and what do you fear fryburg residents will lose? >> i think that there are a couple of questions. if nestle gets a 45-year contract, i think they're going to lose a lot of control over their water. and a 45-year contract will extend for quite a long time. and nestle -- in the community, my problem essentially with this

contract is that ye nestle's is buying water, and the bottled water companies come in and buy this water at a cheap price and make an excess property. they're buying commodities as a regular price and selling it as a markup, and i don't think there's anything wrong with profit, but nestle's is making the profit. and i think that the profits should go back to the private water company, and the community. because i think that a major problem with water, as the pec itself reported to the legislature this year with the decreasing water utilities, is the major cost of infrastructure. that's the problem. nestle's is getting water for

cheap. and there's heavy use of the roads, which affects the state and the municipality costs that they're not paying for. >> i want to pause you there, dr. payroll, and you have a different take on this. and you support the nestle contract. and what do you think that fryeburg will gain from it? >> my personal opinion is that we should be more business friendly and everyone brace poland springs and want to a good community partner. we want to expand our tax base, and to do that, with he need more good and quality businesses like poland springs, who are good partnerrers and take care of the environment. they're responsive, and they always address every issue. i know they're not here tonight. but i really think if we're good to nessly, we'll attract good

quality business. >> we have 30 seconds before i have to hit the brakes, but go off of what mike was saying, that nestle's is a good community partner and your experience? >> many people who are supportive of nestle's role in the community bring up that nestles has been an excellent partner. this is a state where there aren't a lot of economic opportunities, jobs have gone away, and a lot of people are saying, hey, here's a company that's engaging in a manufacturing enterprise that's locally clean. there are not smokestacks, they're pumping spring water, and while presently there are no local employees in fryeburg, but nestle has suggested that if there's a long-term contract like this, to cement the

relationship, they might build a local bottling plant and that could cement hundreds of jobs. when the jim neigh gymnasium, tl high school burned down, they built a new one. >> so they're invested in the community. when we come, should people in corporations be able to buy water and sell it for a profit?

>> i'm asking the public utilities commission to please not let them take my community's water. do not support the 45-year contract. please protect us, thank you, luke. >> with one young fryeburg

resident testifying, you have people tweeting us from fryeburg. >> we have nick, he's concerned about the conflict of interest. who knows, i don't know the laws, but shouldn't it be tightened to even serve on a water board? we have nicki, talking about the public utilities commission, and no one spoke out about the contract. so the people of fryeburg are asking a lot of questions. mike, what are you thinking? >> mike, hang on, before you jump in there, i want to give thomas a chance to talk here, because we're talking about the public utility commission, and i want to explain the conflict of interest issue that a lot of people are talking about. we mentioned at the top of the show, an advocate, all of whom have ties to nestle. and thomas, you've not decided

whether or not to recuse yourself yet. two people already have, two are left. and why have you not decided and what are the consequences if you recuse yourself? >> justify to clarify, i don't have any current ties to nestle. that would be inappropriate. a number of year years ago, i wd for a law firm that worked for nestle. and the issue is a difficult and complicated one. the consequence of me recusing myself. there are three commissioners, and in order for the commission to make any decision, you need two votes. if two commissioners recuse themselves for whatever reason, the commission cannot act. and the consequence here, the contract last name b will not b. but first of all, was my

involvement in the earlier case sufficient to the current case [ inaudible ] [ audio difficulties ] if i conclude yes, and there's a document that's to the supreme court. if a body like this does not have a quorum and enough votes to act, you can not have a conflict in the case. and in staying with the case early, i sort of put aside the question of whether i thought there was a significant conflict. and the necessity at least for the time being, and then finally, regardless of the answer to the first three questions. if i conclude that i can't make a decision that's based on the facts, and in fact, isn't biased in any direction in this case. if, or remaining on the case would undermine confidence in the commission's ability to act

impartially, and i take that seriously. to respect the independence and the integrity of the commission, i not with scanned it. >> so thomas, you're going to make this decision on october 8th, correct? >> no, we asked the parties for a brief number of issues following the hearing on the case. and -- >> i don't want to cut you off, but i need a quick answer, when are you going to make your decision? >> probably by the end of october. >> okay, good. bruce, i want to ask you to come in because you've been actively trying to get thomas to recuse himself. and give us your thoughts. >> okay, not being a lawyer, i obviously don't know the law, but i think that one problem i see, this is a systemic failure of government. i think there are problems with regulatory capture, and there's

loss of faith in governments. when the government appointed commissioners, and when the legislative committee vetted them, this nestle and water issues, we could go to the website, look at all of the implications, and they're huge. this should have better than anticipated and number two, everyone on the commission, including the chairman, dealt with nestle's. in fact, dealing with the previous case that he dealt with, it's very similar, and he has a lot of cross-references to this case. so i think you're really looking at conflict of interest. my mom always told me, two wrongs don't make a right. and we're in a bad situation right now. again, i think that one thing that should be considered by the commission and the government is appointment of an alternative commissioner in this case. >> is that something that's possible? >> currently, under the way that

the law is written, my understanding is no. they can't make up something that's not in statute. and maine, unfortunately, lacks a system to put in an alternate, and in this case, multiple commissioners, recuse themselves or feel they ought to. so what they're looking at, a system of alternates, and prc commissioners step up. and if the chairman recuses himself, so they're not caught in between a rock and a hard place. and this is very unusual. i talked to a lot of national experts, and it's very rare for them to recuse themselves to have multiple commissioners, it's extremely rare nationally. >> our community is definitely -- there's more on the commission, buts this this

issue on trust. in fryeburg, four times in 2008. this tore fryeburg apart and caused serious debts. how do the people feel about this? >> it has been an issue that's divisive in fryeburg. nestle's presence there that's divided the community. and they declined to give them the permits, and nestle took them to court. and they burned some bridges. but there are definitely people who feel that the company is a force for good in the town and the economy, so there are definitely feelings about the company's role. >> mike, i want to give you a chance it jump in on that when we come back, and we'll do that in a few minutes. when we come back.

>> welcome back, we're talking about fryeburg maine, and contracts that the nestle's corporation is trying to get. mike, i want to pick up from from before the break, and reading chet from viewers, we don't trust nestle. they sued the town five times over a 100 trip per day loading facility that the town didn't want and they filed suit against that. and it has caused a real trust issue for the people who live in fryeburg with nestle. but you maintained that they're good neighbors, and why don't you expound on that. >> we need more clarity on the facts, there's hyperbole and misinformation. i went to the hearing back in march. you know, people have an agenda,

i have an agenda. mine is pro business agenda that speaks to bringing new business into fryeburg. if people don't trust poland springs, they should speak to them and hold their feet to the fire if they want and ask them questions. >> how do they do that? >> communicate, social media, knock on their door. the office -- >> it means a major multinational corporation likenessly can ignore that. how do you engage in meaningful discussion when you have a company likenessly? >> you start with the local? you can go in on thursday, and you can walk in, and you don't need an appointment. and you community.

-- communicate. that's what we're doing tonight. we have different opinions, but we're engaging each other. >> the one engagement we tried was to bring nestles in as a party to answer some of the questions, and they did not in the judicial proceedings, we didn't get anywhere, and they resisted attempts, and they didn't show up tonight for the public continuum, and i hate to say if nestles wants to talk, where are they tonight? it's very concerning. it shows what nestle's thinks of the larger public opinion, and we have to protect our water. they don't have fossil fuels but they have water. sarah palin cashes her checks

for the petroleum. and the people of maine should get back a valuable resource. it's being sold at rates that a family of five would pay for. i'm not against profit. but nestle's makes profit. and some of that should go back to the community through the exchange of a commodity. >> fryeburg is a tiny little town in pain main, and why should people in the united states care about this conflict? >> the situation in fryeburg, now and over time, sort of encapsulates the have you guyedt people are having over the water. among the opponents, they're going to hit 10 or $12 billion in 2050, and a lot of it has to do with droughts in places where

they should not be, and then it goes back to water's future value is expected to be much higher than it is today. and nobody knows just how high it is. the issue that you hear in fryeburg, this is too long of a contract, and perhaps the price is too low knowing that we don't know the trend lines. so the communities all over the place are going to be confronted with that. and at the same time, the global chair of nestle in switzerland says that the planet will be running short on water long before oil. and this is the issue. relative to fryeburg, there does need to be a price on water. because the issue that will be needed to expand is going to require the private sector to be involved, and they are going to need toes there. so that's an important discussion not only for people in maine and north america, but throughout the world, that water

and commodity prices and such are going to play in how we procure and distribute supplies for water for a growing world. in a sense because fryeburg is so tiny and nestle is so big, it encapsulates it all. >> our community has definite suggestions. we have francis noting:

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>> good evening everyone. welcome to al jazeera america. i'm here in new york. we are focused on three major stories, the u.n. security council getting ready to vote on a resolution to rid syria of chemical weapons. president oba president obama surprises iran's president with a phone call - another historic step towards the iranian nuclear program. >> my message to government is this - do not shut down the government or the economy. pass the bill and pay our bills. >> lawmakers told to stop the grandstanding and get dn