>> you're in the stream. the nation's eyes are on mexico as albuquerque might be the first city to ban abortions after 20 weeks. however, the state allows t. and what does this mean for new mexico and the rest of the country? lisa fletcher it away, and my man is stepping in as coost. and look, omar, nothing is

nowhere contentious as abortion, and this might reflect t. >> there are a lot of people weighing in with strong feelings, and we have a tweet from kate: and, we have lynn: of course, for those of you at home, we want you to be part of this conversation, and don't forget to tweet us at the hashtag that you see on the screen right now. >> albuquerque is set to vote on this issue next tuesday, and if passed, it bans pregnancy after 2 20 weeks except in cases of rape or incest. three have bans, but albuquerque

would be the first in the united states to approve such a ban. the ban would be felt statewide, as albuquerque is the only city in new mexico that offersbortioningoffersabortion . who should have a say? tonight, joining me. lila rose, and tara bresler, the editor of think progress, who has been covering this for a while. and antoinette, a professor in albuquerque. and is this the first time about watching ajam stream, we're all about access. we use google and i'm going to start with you, as mentioned in july, texas joined 12 other

states that approved a ban on abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy, and what does the vote in albuquerque mean for the statewide legislation? >> well, albuquerque is the only city that has a clinic that will do these midterm abortions at 20 weeks, and if they're successful, the clinics would have to move elsewhere within the state, or move to another county in the state. but what i think will happen, there will probably be an immediate motion for an injunction to stop the implementation of this ordinance. >> when looking for a federal law, a lot of people say roe v. wade, supreme court decision, a woman has a fund me fundamentalo have an dortion, and isn't this a debate? >> it's a 7-2 decision, and what

roe v. wade said, it's a paramount interest in protecting a potential for human life, but the paramount interest is a woman's health. and that hasn't changed. so i think that it's going to be -- so what has happened is a lot of states have legislated at the borders of those interests, and what happens with this attempt. >> antoinette, thank you for that, and i know facebook messages and tweets have been coming in all day, and what are they say? >> there's annoying committee. the reason we're so effective in albuquerque for late-term abortion and now with the election process, they're focus

on the base, the christian churches, the catholic churches and like-minded people. and so we really have focused on those we know are already pro-life, and who oppose killing babies in the womb. especially in the later stages of pregnancy, which is what we're dealing with here in albuquerque. >> linda, what do you think, how is this different than other places? >> well, it's all connected, there's a grassroots movement in the country that says this is a human being in the womb. and at 20 weeks, the majority of doctors believe that this child can feel pain, so to rip that child apart or inject poison into that child's heart, and even injecting it into the child's bottom. horrific stuff to torture this

child to death, these are barbaric acts, and nothing justifies it. and we mentioned roe v. wade. and even options, consent forms, they say that after 18 weeks, the abortion procedure is more dangerous than carrying to term. so these are really dangerous procedures for women. she's in labor, and they're ripping the child out of her womb and this is dangerous, and it's more dangerous than carrying to term. and that's why most people are agreeing and people in albuquerque are saying, we have it stop these barbaric practices, women deserve better, and children deserve better. >> the bill makes exceptions for life exceptions, but the standard for roe v. wade is for

the mother. and what do you find different about albuquerque? >> i think it's a basic level, it's great to ensure that women's lives are not going to be put at risk by denying them to medical care, is i guess that one narrow exception that's great. but really, when it comes to these kinds of procedures, there are other sorts of desperate circumstances under which women may need this late-term abortion care. often women discover fatal, really serious fetal abnormalities after the point of 20 weeks of pregnancy, and often they have to make a heartbreaking choice to terminate a wanted pregnancy, and that's an action that's not really being addressed with this type of legislation. there are other cases to which there are severely economically disadvantaged women, and they're trying to scrape together the money to get an abortion earlier, and they run out of

time. and these are desperate women it we're talking about. and a cruel piece of legislation that would deny them medical care in those circumstances. >> i'll have lila respond. >> i think that you misunderstood what i said. i think that's a constitutional problem with the ordinance. ordinance said that an exception may be used to save a woman's life. and the standard in row v raid is to protect a woman's health. >> let's talk about women's health. and tara didn't respond to the abortion clinics making 8 to $12,000 on these horrific late-term abortion, and they say in their own consent form, that after 18 weeks, after 18 weeks, these abortions are more dangerous, more dangerous than carrying to term. and let that sink in, and why is

that? let's think about what this procedure does. we all deserve to know what happens in these procedures, and that's why i say without a shadow of a doubt that abortion is not medical care. and we document on tape, they give them labor inducing drugs, and give them poison, and tear the children, limb from torso in excruciating pain, and they send the women to a hotel room to wait for the baby to be delivered. sit on the toilet and leave the door unlocked and don't look down. this is not women's health. >> let's talk about rape and incest. i think that any wom woman of re and incest needs care, but the child is innocent. and the child does not deserve

the death penalty because of the sins of the father. and when you tell a woman you've had a rape, you should have an abortion, and that's only going to add violence. you think that's going to help her recover from the rape? we're lying to ourselves to say that it helps women emotionally or psychologically or spiritually to say it, go have an abortion. >> we want to bring in the third host of the show, omar, what what's the community saying in. >> teddy says: it's a question that we could get into later on. >> we're just getting started. where's the line between anti-abortion and mob mentality and intimidation. join the conversation as the third host of the show.

>> my name is david. and i'm an internal fet al medicine specialist. and i'm in "the stream." >> welcome back, we're talking about upcoming vote next tuesday in abingdo albuquerque, new mext would ban abortion after 20 weeks, and what are people saying in. >> if you look at my screen. and we also have tree hugging liberal here, the name gives it away a little bit:

these are all questions that the guests would like. >> well, you heard lila and what does your response. >> are you asking me specifically or respond to a certain point or in general? >> the community has been asking about or not this is crossing into intimidation, and is it still a right? >> right. i mean, i think that you know, this is obviously an issue where tensions are running really high. there's a lot of grassroots activism going on on the ground in albuquerque, and you're seeing a truck with really graphic images of abortion dragging around the city trying to drum up support for the ban. it makes sense that emotions are running high and people feel very strongly on both sides of the issue, but i honestly do feel that he's efforts to

legislate individual women's choices and bodies x. the right to bodily and physical autonomy does cross the line. and i don't think that it necessarily matters whether we're talking about a pregnancy or four weeks, 12 weeks or 20 weeks. it crosses the line when it comes to women's constitutional protections and to their right to privacy. >> tara, would you allow abortion up until the moment that the baby is born for any reason, even if the baby feels pain? >> i think that's something best left up to medical professionals, and i know that the clinic that you referenced in albuquerque, they have their own system at deciding the point at which they will no longer perform abortions, and i think they go up to 28 weeks.

i think that something like that is appropriate. they deal with women on a case-by-case basis, and they consider every aspect of the medical care that she need, and i don't think this is something that states on a federal or state or city level. and i don't think that the legislation needs to be restricting. it's something that women can decide for themselves, and i think it's ultimately something that medical professionals will deal with and figure out where to draw that line. >> before i have you respond, we're going to the community, omar, what are they saying? >> we have a couple of legal questions coming it, and if you like, respond to this particular point. >> i'm a pro-life feminist. and i think that women should have autonomy over their besides and every opportunity to achieve their dreams and success in society and be elected to office and all of it. but when it comes to another

body in your body and a unique human being, an embryo, all the way up to 40 weeks, and that's another human being, so as a woman, i respect other people's rights, and i respect that my rights end when another person's rights begin. so your right to life, i respect it, and i never would say you should die or be killed. whether you're an embryo, or 40 weeks before birth, i feel you should be protected because i believe in human rights. >> a lot may agree with you morally, but in this country, women have the right. >> every law is legislative morality, and a law that says you shouldn't cheat on your taxes. as a human right, we should have basic laws to have fundamental human rights. the first right is live. and if i don't have my life, the

right to make the sexual choices and my life to act with autonomy, whatever it might be. if i don't have life, these are meaningless. even if i don't have rights as a child, you can't even see the child, that's a human being. that's why they're fighting this fight in albuquerque. >> it's a legal question. we have a tweet here saying the supreme court got rid for a reason. and this from edwardo. >> according to planned parenthood, a law restricting a right to abortion is unconstitutional. and it places an undue burden on that right. roe v. wade barely survived kennedy and he said that the try midwester system has to go.

as long as kidna kennedy is on e court, i doubt that roe v. wade could survive a legal challenge. >> do you think that it could survive the legal grounds. >> i think it's going to be challenged on those reasons, and specifically that it doesn't account for a woman's health. this midterm abortion ban has been good in the sense that it has gotten people talking about this and discussing it, but it does infringe on a woman's body, her privacy and her health. the decision should be made between a woman and her doctor, and that's what the supreme court has consistently said. it's totally true about the tryy midwesters, and those don't work. >> we're throwing these out about a woman's protection, and

i still haven't heard from the guests on the program tonight that making hundreds of millions of dollars on the -- hundreds of thousands, and millions of dollars. millions of dollars. yeah. they're making 8-$10,000 an abortion, but the point is, on the consent form, they say that after 18 weeks, they're making women sign their knowledge that they understand this, that the abortion is more dangerous than carrying it term, and that's important for us to realize. we should care about women's health, but abortion is not helping their health. and empowering women psychologically and emotionally. >> i don't want to second guess the form, but when people are getting midterm abortions, there are usually health issues, and i think it's very important. what women are trying to do is

protect themselves from this problem of medical malpractice and issues around that, and so what they're saying is, because of the medical issues that are involved, that there are risks. and they're notifying women about the risks, which i think is appropriate. midterm abortions or even late-term abortions. one exactly that i notify, the woman had cancer, and what happens when you have cancer, your immune system is depressed. so the cancer is going to move faster through your body. and so one of the reasons that the clinic would offer the option of an abortion to a woman with cancer is to help her be able to fight off the cancer. and it's a very complicated issue. >> antoinette, abortion is not a medical treatment for cancer.

and in the dublin declaration, hundreds of doctors. >> moving forward, can there ever be a middle ground on this never ending abortion debate? we hope so. keep tweeting your thoughts, and in the meantime, look at other stories we have been following.

>> you can feel pain. the government should protect you from being destroyed by ababortion, which i imagine would be a painful way to die. >> these are not about allowing women to make informed choices. they are about attacking basic

american freedoms. >> does this fight sound familiar? the same fight being fought in albuquerque, played out by lindsay davis last week. and we ask you if there will ever be a middle ground for this age old debate. do we have any hope here? medical says: and we have melanie: >> what do you think? is there such a thing as middle ground? >> if we're really talking middle ground. abortions at 20 weeks. it sounds very middle. but the discussion shouldn't be about middle ground. it should be about human rights,

and this idea that abortion is an american freedom. i think that's perverse. women's empowerment shouldn't be reduced to be able to kill our children. this idea that we're empowered through abortion is a lie. are women being empowered by boyfriends taking them to a clinic saying you have to do this, and bosses saying you're not going to get the promotion. there are so many cases but in every case, you see in the more severe cases, desperation, i have to do this. we can do better as women than to kill children, especially these children that are feeling the pain. [ talking at the same time ] >> antoinette, what are the consequences to women's rights if this passes? >> well, i don't like a government that has control over

women's bodies like china. that's one of the beautiful things that roe v. wade did in my mind, making sure that the government doesn't have the government to coerce women one way or the other. in china, they're forcing some of the history is that they force women to have abortions, and that, for me, is unacceptable. >> all right, i want to go to community first. tara, before i give you the chance to jump into this conversation, i have a couple of things for you to look at as well. ivy on facebook: and i also have this video comment from teddy. look at this. >> there are several reasons why the proposed ban on abortion after 20 weeks of gestation is problematic. it's unconstitutional, and being justified as pseudo science, but what i find most disturbing is it would cause a serious lack of access to reproductive

healthcare for women, not just in albuquerque, but in new mexico and throughout the southwest region, as well as having a disproportionate affect on low income women. >> so tara, do you think that there are regional implications? >> i think that both of those are excellent points. important thing to understand about albuquerque. while it's potentially the first localized city wide ban, it would have huge implications for women not only in new mexico but in other states as well.

>> good evening everyone. welcome to al jazeera america. i'm john siegenthaler in new york. health care defections. democrats joining republicans in a big new fix for obamacare. killing in droit, the case of ranisha mcbryde. we'll take you to an island all but washed away from the typhoon. >> ladies and gentlemen, our from hee roar saved gotham city and san francisco today! >> the streets turned