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welcome back. we're talking about college athletes and whether they should get paid. before the break we asked about athletes. tim these student athletes receive scholarships to attend school and play their sport. studies show between their scholarships, room, board, coaching, training, these students athletes get packages worth between 50 and $125,000 a year, why is that not enough? >> and they participate in the benefits of the athletic facilities, and the marketing

opportunities they get for participating on tv. nonetheless they are arguing that the ncaa are using their names and likeness to profit and compensation. >> there is a national collegiate study that found out what is the average compensation. the average football player is worth half a million, and the average basketball player is worth a million dollars. >> while we have got you talking here, talk a little bit about what it is like to be a college athlete in terms of the academic, and physical and financial demands. >> it's extremely demanding. you don't have a lot of time in the day. you are up at 5:00, you have class, you are watching film,

and then you are in practice from 2:00 to 6:30, you have a meal, and then go home and try to study as much as you can and wake up the next day and do the same thing. i figured it was 80 hours at week at times that we very specifically putting into football. and just like an employee you are told where to go and when. and i value my education and the degree i got. i'm using my degree to make this film, so i'm not trying to be hypocritical, it's just the reality we have to look at the fact that coaches used to be amateurs. the coaches used to be p professors, and now they are a completely separate union. so a lot of the rules only apply

to these kids, and these kids are over 18. it's not like david beckham was signing million dollars degrees when he was 14. nobody asked where michael phelps got his degree from. >> we put out the question of whether universities should be taking care of the medical expenses of athletes. and we have a few comments here . . . ed what is your take on this? >> absolutely not. i -- i think -- first and foremost, when you are on scholarship, it should be at least for four years. me

personally, i tore my knee up a week my practice was going to start my freshman year. so it took four -- it took five years to complete four years athletically for myself. so -- and i was fortunate to keep my -- my scholarship, and i think everyone should. i think that everyone should be able to once you sign the letter of intent, it should at least be for four years. to me there's something criminal, for lack of a better word, that scholarships are only for one year, and almost kind of a trial basis going into the following season. >> and those scholarships can be easy to violate. is the process by which the ncaa punishes schools, coaches, and consistent?

>> there has been changes implemented recently. there was legislation that is designed to allow for more consistent and more predictable penalties and punishments. but the enforcement process which regulates the schools and punishes the schools and coaches is different from the student athlete reinstatement process. and indeed there are questions as to whether or not the penalties are consistent, but every circumstance is usually pretty different. >> scoop -- was somebody trying to jump in there? >> i was just saying there has been a lot of inconsistencies. the ncaa was founded for the health of the athlete, and they have evolved into a policing organization. and it's night and day of what

happened to two schools is night and day. so there is obviously major hypocrisy in all things going on, and there is no rhyme or reason. they make the rules and do what they want. >> scoop -- >> bob, i think it's well noted that there are complaints about the consistency at the ncaa, but being familiar with some of those cases i know there are very unique circumstances in each case that present themselves and allow the committee then to decide whether or not the penalty should be stiffer or -- or weaker. >> hey, tim, explain something to us. bob brought it up that he would go to a meal and then try to steal a meal because they just don't have enough money. there is something interesting in the ncaa rules that says athletes can't make more than

$2,000 on top of their scholarship. why is that? >> that was a rule that was introduced into the legislation, but ultimately defeated by the membership in which schools would be permitted to allow -- they were going to be permitted to provide student athletes with $2,000 up to the cost of attendance to cover those costs. but different schools have different values, and the funding is not the same all around the board, some schools are wealthier than others, and as a result, at least in defeated. >> bob there are a lot of students that say i'm not an athlete, and i'm starving too, what makes this a different scenario for athletes? >> well, this is the one instant where athletes are actually gets the short end of the stick. because you are getting limited

by how much you can work. most athletes in football and basketball, beside not having the time, they don't go out and get job experience. i had two summers where i had paid internships, and i had to tell them to stop paying me because i hit the $3,000 mark. and i said why is that? and they called it the kareem abdul-jabbar rule, because he got paid $20 an hour to water the lawn and it was an automated singler system. if a player is lucky enough to get a degree, a degree is a prerequisite for a job, that doesn't mean you have the requirements for a job, you get those through skills. >> we're going to pause here for a second guys, because we got to hit a break. coming up should the ncaa change

its rules or if so how? or should institutions be first and foremost places of learning? we'll be right back. ♪ every sunday night, al jazeera america presents...

welcome back. we're talking about college athletes, and should they get paid. saying? >> they are saying a lot and we have a video comment. take a listen to this. >> so obviously there is a ton of money involved in this debate, and that makes it a problem because the ncaa has made it clear they are not going to negotiate a player salary. college football makes a lot of money based on the idea that college sports are purer than professional sports. and the fact of the matter is, you only have to look at smu and cam newton to argue that is not the case. >> so ed, what do you think about this idea of giving up on salaries and having players

rights? >> i absolutely think that players should control their own marketing rights for a number of reasons. one, you get the experience. you get to actually control your own destiny when it comes to the money as well as you know -- it's -- a player's worth. you get to see what your worth is if you are bringing in millions and billions of dollars as a group, as a team to a particular university, you should be able to at least test that market and -- and see what you are worth, and -- and -- you know, again, just the fact that you can get the experience and -- and figure that out, and -- and learn from it, it can be something that you could use once you leave school. there's a ton of ways to get

experience and -- and see what your market is, what your value is, and there. >> tim the nba and the nfl they get most of their players from colleges and universities. you mentioned earlier that you played baseball in college. baseball has a two-track system, right? you either choose to have an education or choose to go into the minority leaders and try to become a professional baseball player. why doesn't the nfl and nba have real farm teams? >> practically because they don't have to, because the ncaa operates the college football and men's basketball programs that operate as their minority leader programs. and they don't have to go to any minority leader programs, nor would -- i'm not confident that if there were minority leader programs that they would be able to succeed if college athletics is still in place.

>> i agree. the nba is not working itself into the farm system, the model they wanted it to be is actually coming. i think the bigger question we need to ask is what needs to change inside of this? we don't think -- i think between the four of us, we know there is no one-step rule that can go into place that is going to absolve the problems that the ncaa is having. but what changes need to be made? and i think bob made a good point about athletes getting the short end of the stick. i have always said or thought that why are college athletes that are on scholarship treated anybody any differently than anybody else on campus that is on a scholarship. and i think if they are looking to unskew this, at least it lessens and -- and changes the situation a little bit, and makes it more current.

>> doesn't it change it when -- i mean isn't the entire playing field level among all scholarship students until the athletics that certain students are in, the value of that exceeds the university's input into that student? isn't that what changes it? >> from what i understand changes it is the nature of competition. there's no athletic, you know, bcs bowl game -- i mean academic bcs bowl game that they have to challenge themselves and complete against one another with. there is no music competition -- >> unfortunately guy, we are out of time. i want to thank you all for a great discussion tonight. all on line. ♪

. >> more cracks in a key relationship. hamid karzai and washington wrangle over afghanistan's future security. you're watching al jazeera live from doha. also ahead - rescue workers pull bodies from the rubble of a collapsed supermarket in latvia. >> i'm tim friend at london police headquarters where detectives are investigating the case of three women held as slaves for 30 years.