>> hi, i'm lisa fletcher and you're in the stream. only a tiny fraction of those in college sports going pro are colleges setting up student-athletes to fail in the real world? >> waj is here, and he's bringing all of your live feedback, we'll bring out as much as possible. we've been tweeting about this all day and many people say it's the student-athlete's responsibility to determine their destiny, but many say they

feel sorry for these young men and women. >> their dividing line is personal responsibility and people feeling empathy saying they're kids, young adults. we have jamie, for anyone, athlete or not, college is what you make of it. you get out of it what you put into it. and on our facebook page,: >> finally on google plus: >> yeah, not that i've ever had that option but many kids feel their careers are that limited. less than 2% of college players sign those contracts and become professional athletes. for many who don't make the cut

adjusting to life after sports is challenging to say the least. there is no shortage of former student-athletes who say they lack the skills and experience needed to be competitive in the real world. suddenly exciting for jobs wit n be difficult and demoralizing. so are colleges setting student-athletes up to fail or is it on the athletes to prepare themselves for life after sports? we're joined by scoop jackson. and john harris, thanks to everyone for being o on "the stream" . if you work hard and you dedicate yourself in sport you'll play in college.

if you play in college you have a good chance to go pro. do student athletes. >> first, thanks for having me. i think student-athletes hear it. they hear consistently that only a small fraction make it to the next level. but many in that room were only one of ten student-athletes to make it to play college. i think a lot of student-athletes, they always beat the odds, they don't want to hear it. they say i'll beat the odds and i'll become pro. >> you know, you played in the uc system presumably in two of the best basketball schools there. you've been in the pressure cooker, how well are universities doing communicating the reality to student-athletes that there is a very good chance

that they're going to be in that 99% that has to rely on the college degree and not their collectability. >> thank you for having me. this is quite an honor, i've been looking forward to this. i would say that they're doing a haphazard job communicating fully. student-athletes understand it but only to a certain extent. beyond that they're not capable of understanding that there are such huge odds in playing in basketball or football. what they're doing is they're on the court, and their minds are focused on playing. to go back to what john said, it doesn't start in high school but middle school. you're stuck in a system in a combine up until you're released. your train of thought is perpetuated over time so that

you can continuously believe that you can make it. so it's very, very difficult to remove yourself from the reality that is not there. >> well, our community is chiming in. reilly said. >> we've got david who said, i feel so story for these student-athletes >> we have a video comment from brook. >> i went to a top ten university, at times it felt as though academic counselors were focused on me maintaining performance and eligibility by all means.

keepinif your parents are handss easy to fall in the short-term as well. academic counselorrers need to sit down with the athletes and encourage them to take challenging courses. >> are star athletes given the short pass, this privilege that undermines their eventual life after college? >> i don't know if it undermines but makes them understand what they're there for. they're there for the purpose of performing for that university. it's not their job to think about what they're going to do afterward. that's somebody else's responsibility. i don't know if they're setting them up to fail but to succeed. there is a fine line. student-athletes when they get to college, brook said something interesting. she said in her commentary, when they graduate. when you deal with basketball,

football, and baseball, the graduation rated is low because you're able to enter your workforce without a degree. >> it should be if they graduate. >> let's go back to what we're talking about earlier. for those people who think that athletes have to or can or are given the option for themselves to think they won't make it, every professional athlete in every sport will tell you you don't make it to the next level even thinking that in college. you can't think you won't make it because you won't. everyone has to force themselves to think not that it's not going to happen to me, but that i am that good. i know it's a rarity and 1% chance of this happening, but in order to make it there you have to think that way. anything less than that, then you won't make it. >> to piggyback off of what was just said, it starts as early as

middle school. you're in this constrict in which you're only allowed to think about what the task or goal is in hand, that is making it where you need to be. that's the league. it is very tough, like i said, to take that mindset away from a child because all they're thinking about is what their career path that they've already chosen. it would be of great help and great service if academic advisers understood this and cultivated this with the glean at 18 years and 19 years old when you've been taught this and you've been conditioned in thinking a certain way, are they going to hear anything that an academic adviser tells them when in this particular situation they're only going to be there for a short amount of time. then it's not going to happen for them. >> adrian mcbride, he started

this national program helping kids transition, and he dealt with companies and potential employers and student-athletes, and he ran into just that. the athletes didn't want to hear it. they wanted to stay focused. and the employers didn't understand the need and his organization fell apart after a few years. talk about this frame of mind that was brought up. it starts in mile middle schoold your identity is so tightly connected to your performance. what is it like to peel it back and transition to a life of athletics. >> to paraphrase douglas, it's hard to fix a broken man. what we really want to do is--we do take aim at trying to really help guys who are--who grew up with the nfl players association and retired soccer and helping those guys in their transition when they're 25, 30, and 35 and up. we started the athlete

foundation to attack this at the grass roots. you don't even have academic advisers at the high school level. they're not engaging with them until the collegiate level. the lower we can attack this problem, the more success we're going to have with helping the adult. >> this is going to be something that will fake a long time to solve. >> we'll get the community involved: >> so who is to blame when student-athletes are not ready for life after sports? tweet us your thoughts. we'll get them in right after the break.

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>> however on twitter: you. >> well, you know, it's really easy to say everyone is responsible for their own destiny, and many of these athletes simply choose to focus on sports rather than academics. but is there anything going on behind the scenes that leave players as though they really don't have much choice in the matter? >> it's interesting that you say that because i was going to say before the break is that the way that i view college athletics and being around older teammates, their view of college athletics takes care of their basic survival instincts. if you come from nothing and you

look to better yourself, you reach for the closest thing to you that will propel you to that point. let's say that a college coaches sits down in your living room and says, in exchange what you're going to give to us, we're going to give you what your parents dream about, and what you dream about, college education, and we'll get you to the highest level to play. as a player, cannot turn that down. when you get to the construct where they have all been given the same promises your mind guess to thgoesto thinking how e next level. what you're thinking about is how you get to the next level. youyou're unable to see to the t and to the right and see what the world has to offer, but you

think about how you're going survive the next game, your school, how you're going to help your teammates. and it's encouraged that you keep your head down and keep moving forward. >> these are impressionable young people. they look to their coaches for advice. in your experience do you find that the coaches encourage cleats to use their offseason time to volunteer, internships, anything that will help them prepare for a career? >> i think it runs a spectrum. the ncaa had a study that came out two years ago that showed a tremendous influence that coaches have on student-athletes and whether or not they graduate. the coaches absolutely have an influence, and they're very important in the lives of these student-athletes. they're holding the coveted playing time over them, and some coaches really step up and do a great job, and some coaches are really more focused on just

winning games. sometimes winning games and going to class doesn't coincide. >> scoop, talk a little bit about how the university as a whole may be undermining it's own academic objectives. you look at what is expected of an average student athlete. it's holding the gpa, getting enough credits to graduate, and that's it. it's not setting the bar for a student-athlete to look at academics. >> it's a marketing tool. sports is one of the greatest marketing tools all universities have in division one, division two, ncaa, it doesn't matter what level, that's what they recruit. >> are they being honest about that? >> they're not being honest about it, but they're not hiding it either. they're up front with it.

they take the dollars that is made by these teams and turningg it into television dollars to recruit for their school because it gets them out in front where they can't get with a chemistry or music scholarship. there are not 200 million people watching a concert, but there are 200 million people watching the final four. >> but is this 460,000 students that are collateral damage to the betterment of the university. >> they're not doing the service of the athlete, but academically they're doing something for the school. >> well, i be careful to say collateral damage. we have to take into account there are a lot of student-athletes that are making it to campuses like at cal berkeley or ucla who might not have gotten to those campuses, and those who figure it out can

use that to do great things with their lives. there was something said earlier about athletes not graduating. there is bad information. half of nfl players have their degree. that's twice as many as the average person over the age of 25 in this country. two-thirds of the one who is don't have their degree are almost complete with their degree. so it is helping a cohort of this society, don't get they wrong, there are student-athletes who end up as collateral damage, and there are bad things that happen, but there are a lot of good things that happen. >> speaking of collateral damage, let me get some community in. scoop, you talked about dollar. mike says: >> then we have dandy lyon: and chris who says:

>> nikon, you're a good man. you're from my alma mater, look, ncaa revenue, $10.6 billion. >> yes. >> are these revenue-generating sports exploiting these kids. >> i'm going to flat out and say yes. i wouldn't necessarily say, you said collateral damage, if you look at the balance sheet and look at assets, i don't care which school, it's the student athlete as time at an university as an asset, increasing the value of the program. and you can tell how much an university or program cares about the students. by way of the things that happen to the students on campus and what they're willing to do and can't do because of rules and regulations. if you're supposed to be protecting these kids, and you sit down with that child's

father or mother and you say i'm going to take care of your kid, and you have rules and regulations of what you can and can't do, you're not protecting that child. this might an touchy subject, i can't remember the guy from umc, the whole thing that happened with the basketball program. they did not protect that kid. yes, there was some wrong doin doings, but they did not protect that kid. all of a sudden his asset valuation depletes, diminishes greatly. so you wipe your hands and you are finished. it does not create or add value to that university, so be it, they get rid of it and they keep moving. they keep on perpetuating this system from the middle school, high school, all the way through college to raise new stock and new assets. >> that's a great point. who is the adult in the room? who is the adult in the conversation? it is definitely not the student-athlete. they need to understand why we

have you here and cultivate you to get you ready for the next level even though that's not what their end game is. once again, who is the adult in the room here? it is not an 18-, 19-year-old cowe had, it's not. >> there is an equation. if the institution puts resources behind. the university of georgia is a great example. they just got an award this past year where their entire freshman class in the 2006 graduated. that's remarkable fo for a schol tool you about they're putting resources behind it. there are schools not doing that and the money is there. the challenge goes out to colleges and universities where you have to put money to help student-athletes who are coming on your campus who might not

otherwise be prepared. but it goes beyond educating. colleges are set up to educate, and there is a new paradigm where all of a sudden there is a responsibility beyond that. >> john, when we come back from the break, we'll talk about what steps can be taken to make sure that student-athletes are prepared for life beyond sports. we'll get your you thoughts when we come back. >> this sunday... >> scholars and writers,

policy makers and cu

>> welcome back. we're talking about life after college sports and the role of college, university boards and students themselves in preparing athletes for the real world. john, you started an organization to help form athletes are education and career developments. how is that different from general career development and advice that is given to a non non-student-athlete. >> i think our focus is to get the student-athlete to realize that they're more than and to go there 365 years to show athletes they're much more than athletes. we like to use the term lif

life-lete. they're more than an athlete. we work one-on-one with the guys taking them through a pretty intensive process through career development workbook. we don't use the term career transition because i think everyone is in transition. we want to talk about development and keep their mind positive about the direction they're going. we take them through an intensive process to help them understand the value of the brand that they have. the fact that someone played at cal or depaul or played at georgetown, they need to be able to utilize that to navigate just like a general student would, and so we try to get them to engage in different ways. >> speaking of those navigational tools there are universities that are launching entire projects to help student-athletes to do that, one of them is notre dame.

wdame. >> talking about the giant, the big dollars, some schools bringing in $50 million to $60 million to $70 million. what can be done in the midst that have? it's not going anywhere. >> it's not going anywhere, but every athlete has the responsibility to look around them to find like minds and like souls that they can attach themselves to and use as bridge marks where the university may not be able to do that for them.

for magic johnson to mike tyson, we could throw the university out of this. look at magic johnson's career and mike tyson's career. post career what can you do with your life? everybody here would never thought mike tyson once he got through boxing would still be relevant to the degree that he is still relevant. he found a way to turn his life into something to do with his postboxing career. >> no, but he has resources around him to reinvent himself. >> he did that as an athlete. magic johnson went to michigan state, i'm not sure that michigan state laid the groundwork, but i'm using these two as books ends as beyond what the university does, athletes in all genres, in all of the sports, you have two individuals

and a lot in between. we could go to bill bradley, allen page, michael jordan, we can go down the line of what athletes have done but use that as resource. there are other athletes who have done things in a wide variety of field that they can use how they want to move forward post playing the game. >> we have 20 seconds. >> i would just like to say one thing to all athletes understand that you come from an unique situation. you've learned how to be motivated, take goals, take punishment, endure and create things out of thin air. you can always practice to go forward. if anyone can tap into those qualities that made you an athlete, you can take those on the road and go anywhere. >> well said, my friend. a terrific discussion. in the meantime, waj and i will see you online. ♪

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