>> welcome to al jazeera america. i'm thomas drayton, here are the top stories we are following this hour. >> thursday, new jersey politicians will hold a hearing to investigate chris christie's administration. they allegedly blocked traffic lanes on the george washington bridge to punish a town that did not support him. >> the white house came out in defence ever vice president joe biden in response to a memoire in robert gates' book. he criticised his foreign policy insects and jay carney said joe biden is a senior advisor to president obama. >> utah put a hold on same-sex

marriage, including those that have taken place. the gay marriage ban was declared unconstitutional last month. >> 50 years after the war on poverty, president obama said too many americans are born into lives of hardship and now promise zones will be created, focussing on edcue kags and jobs in five poor parts of the country. >> those are the headlines. "consider this" is coming up. you can get the latest news online at aljazeera.com. >> the empire strikes back at robert gates. the white house responds to his book's bomb shells.

also, education underfire. are minorities unfairly targeted for discipline. legal pot sends the prices soaring, and why are so many pro-sports fans staying home? hello i'm antonio mora, welcome to "consider this". we begin with a white house on the defensive in the wake of harsh allegation he by president obama's former defense secretary bob gates. >> read any good books lately? >> in his book "duty memoirs of a secretary at war" gates reveals an utter disdain for congress, gives an assessment of joe biden and believes that the vice president did not believe his own strategy in the war in afghanistan. members of congress were quick

to strike back. >> while the administration is ongoing i think is unfortunate. i saw a president who was very committed obviously to support the troops, to support the policy of trying to decimate al qaeda. >> and today, the white house took unprecedented steps to support the vice president. for more i'm joined by bill schneider, a contributor of al jazeera english and by jim popo, a former specialist of spefer special affairs to president obama. they are all joining us from washington, d.c. tonight which of course ahas been buzzing over this special book. jay carny, you were there, it seems like you were trying to swing back but not really attack bob gates directly? >> yeah, it was pretty predictable and pretty

remarkable, predictable in that you knew that they were going to stay away from distinct criticism of gates, good to accentuate his patriotism the great job that he did. but it was remarkable, as i set there front row center, started counting. the first 25 questions of briefing from the folks to the president of the united states, there were a few things to talk about including the fate of extending unemployment benefits for 1.3 million americans. but 25 questions in a row by a group of people none of whom not one who had actually read the darn book. >> but there was a lot of stuff came out -- >> but let me just say, nevertheless, everybody was basing their questions on quotes found in two very interestingly distinctly different versions, the book was leaked to the washington post, new york times

and the post, legendary bob woodward waxed a bit high per bollic, and said in his mind this -- hyper bolic, while the new york times a former colleague of mine, at the chicago tribune tom shanker really accentuated the positive by bob gates as a rigorous thinker, a guy willing to buck his top aides being decisive, and the key focus, afghan policy ultimates reply was right in he every single key move he made according to gates. >> we'll have to see what points he made when we are able to read the book. jim papa, you were at the white house, you had to deal with staj to deal with bomb shells like this. when was the thinking at the warehouse overnight as this whole thing broke? >> well as

you -- white house overnight as this whole thing broke? >> they received the book after the excerpts were in the paper. one person was assigned to read it. they were in fact-gathering mode right now. once they have the facts and can lay out the arguments and the point of view that secretary gates puts into the book they can move to contextualize that. as well as points of view of other people who are in that meeting and lastly, or in that set of meetings and there at that time for all the deliberations through afghanistan policy and if they need to correct the record they will. i think you will see that in the response of the treatment of the vice president to secretary gates. >> i want to get to something else they did about the big revelations, one of the big revelations from gates was about the politics of the iraq war,

talking about hillary clinton and her opposition to the 2007 surge in iraq had bill been political because she was facing him in the iowa primary and the president conceded vaguely that the opposition to iraq war had been political as surprising as it was dismake and former obama advisory david axelrod got up early top clear that up. >> it was vague and subjective, no allegation on the president's part, he was opposed to the war in iraq from the beginning. >> but bill isn't axelrod parsing words? >> that surge was massively unpopular.

it proadvocated a huge outpouring of rage among democrats. it would have been crazy for either obama or clinton to have supported the surge. they would have been destroyed in the democratic party. i think surprising about what the author is writing here is hirl clinton he says without quoting her directly referred to that as a political move, that she opposed the surge for political reasons. there is no surge here and it was reported as secondhand. >> and perhaps the most brutal victim of this, i saw most of congress as uncivil, timely appropriations, micromanagerial, parochial, egotistical, thin skinned and prone to put self before country. wonder how he feels about congress? jim papa, brushed it off by saying gates was entitled to his opinion.

but his words have to have an impact. >> the department hopes they do have an impact. because being part of preparing secretaries and other administration staff to get a sit before congressional hearings and testify, there was often the wish that the very toughest questions would be more on substance and not just for you know to prove a points that they were -- a point that they were already trying to make, sometimes it was a statement and a "do you agree" so i do hope that those who are sitting on those daises listen and engage had a little bit more constructive dialogue. >> gates was brutal on vice president joe biden saying he was a man of integrity but he says i think he has been wrong on nearly every foreign security issue in the past four decades. the white house went all out to defend him today, biden was included in all sorts of meetings and there was a full-on defense of him at wednesday's

white house briefing. >> as a senator and as a vice president joe biden has been one of the leading statesmen of his time. >> but jim warren in a way the white house looked like it was supporting biden but also putting so much of the focus on him it took away focus from the president. could that have been part of the white house strategy? >> what else do you do when you are number 2 guy who may be running for elective office again unlike you, is hammered in that way, and is, i mean truly disparaged in such a tough manner and when you have a spokesman who happened to be his spokesman once upon a time jay carney. on the one hand, the attention has been on the criticism leveled and mostly at the president of the united states. and the impact if there is to be impact most likely on two people, joe biden or hillary

clinton if they choose to run for president. you can imagine the various ways in which opponents either in democratic primaries in a general election or if they were nominated were to use as muc --f this stuff that were continually wrong and this person makes political decisions all the time. >> and in fact we are already seeing senator lindsay graham, the most recent push in iraq was the administration fault. >> i blame obama and biden by not listening to their commanders rejecting sound advice and bob gates talked about that in his book, how military advisors were rejected by the political people. >> this is a lame duck president facing this kind of information from his former defense secretary, very well-respected guy, how badly does this hurt president obama? >> i don't think any of this comes as a big

surprise. we know obama has no particular military record or experience. he's a political guy. what gates says is obama made decisions with respect to some decisions, the iraq and afghanistan war became extraordinarily unpopular. iraq before he became president and afghanistan while he came president. he was not committed to either of those wars, they were really not his wargs. the charges being made by the republicans was he didn't respect the decisions of military commanders. they were in the business of trying to win those wars and he was in the business of living to the american people who wanted out of those wars. >> white house chief of staff bill daly criticize, the form he secretary of defense coming out with this book while the president is still in office but isn't hillary clinton doing the

same thing in the next few months? >> i think it is an old adage of politics, if you are going to write a flattering picture of the politician, he will say, please write it now but if it is wait. >> thank you for joining us gentlemen. cybersecurity risks, when briefed on cyber-issues he reportedly asked that people explain it in english. clearly there is no national security issue more important yet less understood than cybersecurity and cyberwarfare. our next guest is here to help us understand why we should be concerned. we are joined by peter singer, director of the center for 21st century security and intelligence and a senior fellow in the foreign policy program of the backloggings institution.

he is the co-author of the book cybersecurity and cyberwarfare what everybody needs to know, which is in bookstores now. great to have you with us. >> thanks for having me. >> according to a poll military civilian sectors cyberwarfare is the most serious threat beating terrorism by 20%. in a pew poll more americans fear a cyberattack more than they do iranian or north korean weapons. how realistic are those fears? do we really face a cybercat aclix, a cyberpearl harbor? >> there is a real threat out there but the problem is we have lumped together so many different things aall because they involve computers. so when people talk about attacks they are talking about everything from credit card theft and fraud to political protests online, trying to disrupt communication, to intellectual property thefts,

stealing secrets to the fictionalized scenario of a cyber911 or cyberpearl harbor. that handy happened. we are lumping together a lot of these things. talking about a bunch of protestors with a smoke bomb, teenagers with fire crackers, james bond, and russia with a cruise missile, saying they are all the same thing because they involve the chemistry of gunpowder. what it comes down is understanding these issues, disaggregating the threats, understanding thunderstanding t, what's likely what's figural. unfortunately the discourse hasn't done a good job of that. >> let's try to disaggregate. the worst-case scenario. the internet has become the subject of everything as we know. can we suffer and how vulnerable are we to suffer a major attack that could really bring down our internet infrastructure? >> there's very real threats

there, but we need to understand that they're quite difficult to pull off. they're not how they have been described for example a senior defense official in the u.s. said a couple of teenagers sipping red bull in their parents basement could pull off a weapons of mass destruction event. no they couldn't. a major nation could pull something off like that but then we have to look at their incentives to do so. are they at war or not. the power grid scenario, the power grid could go down. well, the reality is that squirrels have taken down more power grids than the zero times that hackers have. doesn't mean it's not a threat but we have to weigh it there. to me if we're looking at national security level threats a far bigger concern is the massive scale of intellectual property theft that's gone on, maybe as much as $1 trillion worth of value lost by american companies, as well as other

nations targeted, this has been emanating from china. a cyber-pearl harbor may sound sexy but death by a thousand cuts may mean more. >> let's stick a little more to the whole issue of these nations going after each other. china reportedly is spending enormous amounts of money to have very, very strong cyberwarfare capabilities. we know that the u.s. and israel or at least we believe the u.s. and israel with the suxnet virus were able to delay the warfare. using and developing these capabilities, again how big a threat do you think that is on a grand carol in the future? >> -- grand scale in the future? >> i joke in the book we talk about china as much as we talk about cats. because if you are trying to tell the story of the internet you have to talk about cats but

china is becoming crucial to the threats that are out there. china bus nations like the u.s. over 100 nations are building some kind of cybermilitary capability. and the example of stuxnet strealts that now -- illustrates that we are now creating weapons that can create real damage. there's two historic parallels to keep in mind. one is in terms of military development, it's a lot like the period around world war i where you know they had things like radios, the tank, the airplane but they hadn't yet figured out how to integrate them into military operations. they didn't yet have the blitz kreig. when you are talking about the real cyberwar that's what looms. that's the next step in this about the other historic parallel to be concerned about is the early stage of the cold war, where we didn't well

understand the technology but even more, the political dynamics that it drove. and that was the period if you recall we took seriously the advice of people that would become the real world inspirations of dr. strangelove. that's whether we're thinking about military doctrine and the politics of this, that's what we have to be concerned about is that there's some ideas that are based on bad assumptions that could drive us towards greater levels of insecurity. >> i know you're concerned and you open your book with a description of our leaders not being engaged enough and not understanding this enough. let's move on to the corporate side of this. you write in the book that 97% of fortune 500 companies were hacked and the others probably were too and didn't know it. industrial espionage is the biggest problem? >> if you are trying to weigh

the impact i would argue that we are watching unfold the largest theft in human history when you are talking about the value that is lost and also huge national consequences, but it's not just stealing intellectual property secrets, all sorts of disruptions of operations your services. the bottom line is, whether you're an executive at a defense company or a paint company or you're running a cup cake store, you now have cybersecurity concerns. the problem is when we think about the business management side of this just like the politics it's been left largely to thitto the i.t. folks to understand. that's not good enough anymore. 75% of business executives, not ctos, but executives in general have made some kind of cybersecurity decisions for

their company yet no mba teaches on it as part of your business training. you could talk about it in the field of adjournmen journalism or what about kids on basic hygiene of the internet. yet they're all on the internet now. >> it's a subtitle to your book, the book is cybersecurity and cyberwarfare, what everyone needs to know, it's in bookstores now, very helpful, peter singer, appreciate your time, thank you for joining us. coming up a beauty queen's murder sparks controversy from caracas to miami, and concerns of the dangers in venezuela post hugo chavez. and when it comes to when it comes to the internet what's

happening giana. >> i leave the politics behind and share some personal accounts from the people living behind the lines. and in those cases where formal education isn't feasible because of t

>> late monday evening soap opera star and former ms. venezuela monica were murder

when they drove with their daughter along a venezuelan highway. they raise serious questions about the explosion of voyages in a country that exports more oil to the u.s. than any other nation other than saudi arabia. joining us is leo poldo martinez, and mark trasbrott. good for you to be with us. they were murdered on a highway between venezuela's port and largest city, a couple of miles from caracas. caracas is described as the homicide capitol of the world. leopoldo,

what does that have? >> it have has a lot of responsibility. in 1998, when president chavez came to power the murder rate in venezuela was at 20 residents per every 100,000 citizens. as we are today, that same rate has escalated to almost 80 residents per every 100,000 residents. so if you compare the violence that has taken lives of venezuelans over the past 15 years and particularly 2013 rate which has escalated to 80 residents per every 100,000 citizens, you can compare that to other countries in the region. colombia, a country immersed still in a conflict like the one we know exists in colombia is only at a rate of 31 residents

per every 100,000 -- 31 murders per 100,000 residents in colombia. so the rate of homicides in venezuela more than -- it is more than double that of colombia. and it's only second -- it's only honduras has a higher rate than venezuela these days. mexico a country that has a significant situation there -- >> the drug problem is not as bad. >> has a lower rate than venezuela. >> and high profile crimes are nothing new in venezuela. not only political and government officials targeted, in 2011 when washington redskins catcher reynolds was targeted there, it's these random kidnappings and killings. randall how does the country move past these situations?

>> they have to improve the law enforcement and judiciary and get rid of the impunity, most of these murders are unsolved, this one i'm sure they'll solve but most of the murders are not. and i think you know part of the problem is that venezuela is unfortunately situated between the -- one of the world's biggest cocaine producers, colombia and the biggest market for cocaine which is the united states. >> but mark that has been the case forever. and the murder rate has soared since chavez and his brand of socialism have come into power in venezuela. >> well, the poll mentioned honduras having a higher rate. these problems are similar. because of the war on drugs they have become more of a transit point and there is some of that violence. i'm not saying it's all coming from that but i think it's a big part of it.

>> the opposition leopoldo, blames the policies of chavez and maoro, the opposition likes to blame capitalism and the united states, there's no doubt, the shortages of toilet paper and sugar, something that is produced in venezuela itself, how big of a problem is the economic situation, when it comes to poverty and crime? >> well -- the economy -- >> let's let leopoldo get that one first. >> the economy has of course worsening over the past few years. and although some numbers can be used to show that poverty has been reduced, poverty remains a large problem in venezuela. as well as unemployment and the informal economy. and also, there is a political narrative in the country that has not helped at all to lower

the situation of violence and hostility in the country. i have also to mention that politically speaking, there is zero cooperation antonio between the national government that controls basically the most significant resources to confront crime, and the local authorities, the municipalities and the regions, particularly when those states or cities are controlled by leaders of the opposition. this lack of cooperation does not help at all to promote law enforcement policies. on the other hand just to conclude the thought, the judicial system has been brought to a situation where only very few crimes are prosecuted. so mostly 90, 92% of the crimes committed in venezuela remain impugned. that creates an environment where it's definitely an

incentive to crime and there is a heavy responsibility of the national government in all these situations. >> and mark a quick last word. they have a -- >> can you give knee a little time to talk? that is where leopoldo is totally wrong. since chavez got control of the economy, has done very well. >> oil prices have soared. >> you can attribute it to anything you want but if you compare it to the 20 years prior, where income actually fell, poverty has been reduced by more than half, in fact it fell 20% in 2012, and these numbers are not in dispute. you can go to the eunt, the world bank -- united nations, the world bank, anywhere you want to look. chavez and then maduro have won

15 of 16 elections, poverty has been reduced by half, extreme poverty by more than 70% and people have much greater access to education and health care than they had before so living standards have improved in spite of the problems with crime. and that's something to you know, that most americans don't know, of course, because they only hear one side of the story. >> true but the question that many would raise and unfortunately we have to leave it there is with oil prices soaring as much as they did would that not have changed with a government that had not been social it's as chavez has been for all these years. >> they soared in the 70s and you didn't get these improvements. >> and you didn't have the climb -- the crime in the 70s that you had here. >> unfortunately we are out of time. lee ohpoldo martinez, mark, we appreciate you joining us.

discipline in schools, it is a critical part of education, the consequences far more serious than a trip to the principal's office. officials say the policies have disproportionately hurt minorities and disabled students and on wednesday, attorney general eric holder says that needs to stop. >> far too many students across this country are diverted from the path to success by unnecessarily harsh discipline policies and practices that seclude them from school, alarming numbers of people are suspended, expelled even arrested for relatively small small transgression for things like laughing in class. >> i'm joined by athena mock, schoolhouse to jailhouse

campaign. avonte, advocating for changing zero tolerance rules. davonte, i want to start with you, you just graduated from high school, you are campaigning to get these zero tolerance issues change. you were suspended a few times. >> i was suspended a few times. with a 90 day suspension, i was suspended for 90 days for something very minor. kids walking down the street, a stick got thrown, not even a stick, a twig got thrown. i had nothing to do with it. i was out of school for a three-month period and the way our school is set up that is almost like half the year. so i was out of school and i felt like you know what is the point of me even trying to you know because i'm out of school for so long and there's no way once i get back that i could catch up to everyone else.

so it made me feel like what now? i felt like it was no point in me even trying to continue reply schoolwork at all. and you know -- >> part of the issue is you see these suspensions and that's what happens is the kids can't catch up and that is part of the problem that ends up sending -- kids end up basically not finishing their education and getting into trouble. >> absolutely. it's the loss of instructional time that is so incredibly harmful as an extension of zero tolerance policies and exemplary discipline. it's very difficult to catch up. we're committed to providing education to all students but they have to be in the classroom. the statement that secretary duncan made today goes a long way to advancing that notion that we need to be committed to educational access for all students. >> now, dawante, one of the

issues that the attorney general trying to address is the fact that for more serious offenses kids are often sent directly to police. something that never happened to you. but you have seen this pipeline to prison to some of the kids who are punished with suspension and sent to the police department. >> yes. i have. i have a lot of friends that earned id up getting suspended and they told me all the time like i don't feel i belong, in school, every time i go back they put me back out. what's out there once they leave? all they have to go to is people like who don't give them a positive outlook, or while they're out of school. so what they do is they do something that they don't need to be doing something unlawful, that will make them end up in the criminal justice system. >> and tina that's partly of the problem, there are arrests at

school, not just kids who do something out of school, but kids who do something in school, don't get taken todd principal's office, they end up going to jail. >> that's right. in the wake of columbine we see a knee jerk reaction to police in school and using law enforcement as first responders, it is school officials and school administrators who should be the first line if there are disruptions in class. but what we're also seeing notice is the racial disparities in school discipline they're off the charts. and it's pretty significant today, that the government made a strong statement saying that, you know, we will not tolerate discrimination as it relates to school discipline and i think it provides an opportunity for school districts to really be proactive about ensuring that discipline is reasonable, that it's consistent with the goals of keeping students in the classroom, and that we're returning to common sense discipline.

and that's a trip to the principal's office not to the law enforcement agency. >> but the guidelines aren't terribly specific and some critics might say that no tolerance policies have been around, that they are very important because of all the safety issues we've seen at schools. what do safety officials say, we've got to be tough and there have been situations where preschool kids have been suspended for miernl things, but shouldn't there be tolerance? >> evidence suggests the minor infraction he are at the core of the problem here. certainly there is violence at school we are all aware of those, but the three million students who are suspended annually those are primarily for minor infractions, things like for being late, having a cell phone. these are -- it just doesn't pass the test for reasonableness.

what we saw today was an evident to get pack to common -- wan an effort to get back to common sense. appropriate supports so they can get back on track. >> as many as 95% of suspensions are for minor offensest. athena and davonte, appreciate you joining us. let's check back with jana. >> today being the 50th anniversary of lirn don b. johnson's speech declaring the war on poverty, al jazeera have reached out to people actually living below the line. a working mother, alice, said she could no longer afford the gas for her commute to work on twitter when asked how she defines poverty

lavinder gooms describes it as choosing to go hungry so your children don't have to. that they provide free spanish and ged classes. you can read more at aljazeera.com. in recent research we said that worries about not having enough money can subtract 13 i.q. points from your mental capacity that's a larger impact than losing a full night's sleep. >> stunning information, jana, thank you. recreational pot is sky high in colorado but so are prices, will that push users back to their dealers? >> how many people would rather not go to th

>> an exclusive "america tonight" investigative series >> we traveled here to japan to find out what's really happening at fukushima daiich >> three years after the nucular disaster, the hidden truth about the ongoing cleanup efforts and how the fallout could effect the safety of americans >> are dangerous amounts of radioactive water, leaking into the pacific eververyday? >> join america tonight's michael okwu for an exclusive four part series, as we return to fukushima only on al jazeera america

>> why is the price of marijuana sky high now that it is legal. one organization says an ounce goes for $200, but recreational pot is costing twice that. let's ask why. we have the editor of the cannabis.co. it's the denver post's new website about marijuana.

great to have you here. why the jump in price for recreational marijuana as soon as it became legal? >> ultimately you had lines outside the door, stretching around the block, and across the street. i think they ultimately saw that need was there, and they raised prices to supply and demand, right. >> demand was so great, and the stories are that some places ran out and had to close down. >> we have not heard those reports. i don't have anything on the record as any of these shops running out of product. if they do run out of recreational product, we know that they will have medical product for their patients. by raising the prices for the recreational marijuana, the prices that are higher than the ones on the street, will that defeat the whole purpose of

this. >> part of the purpose is an experiment to see if this will affect the war on drugs, the black market. i certainly have heard from many readers of the post and cannabis, people saying, "we are going to stick with our dealer, it's what we know, the price is right." in some situations the dealer is a family friend dealing with a single family for 30 or 40 years. >> there's loyalty to the dealer. it's difficult to understand that concept, basically, especially since you have guaranteed quality and it's legal and you don't run a risk of criminality. if demand slows down, if you are not seeing the big lines around the block, why have prices not come down. >> we have the short line, and a limited number of pot shots open now. it's a relatively small number. the city and council of denver

let us know that four more pot shots were licensed, so because it's a small number, they have the numbers in their favour. until more pot shots open, that's when we expect the price of marijuana, the recreational marijuana to go down. given that this will clearly in the short run grow quickly. what is the general reaction? what is the general feeling in colorado to seeing the marijuana business become big business very quickly? >> the general feeling is that it was bound to happen. right now as you watch the roll out, everything that happened smoothly. many politicians, including the governor and the mayor and congress people have come out and said thank you colorado, thank you tourists for behaving responsible. and now it's only a matter of time before we see big business come into this market, and maybe give a lot of these mum and pop businesses a run for the money.

>> what about the numbers, some reports said that a million dollars in recreational pot was sold in the first week, the first day, and $5 million in the first week. they are substantial numbers, is it more than they expected. >> i'm not sure the source on those numbers. i have heard them, but i do question the source much i think regardless there's a lot of money to be made, and a lot of shops had to hustle. they had to jump through some hoops, and really apiece the state and local regulations to be able to sell on jan the 1st, and those shops are seeing the rewards for seeing the first in the local world to open up and sell to the masses. >> it means serious tax revenues for the state of colorado. it may be if the numbers continue over town, be more than they had expected, and they were

expecting tens of millions of tax revenue, do you think it will ipp spire more states to go the route that colorado has gone. >> i don't see how it can't. once they see these revenues put to work in schools, in communities, you know, that's an attractive part of the proposition. >> even though marijuana is legal now in colorado, there has been a whole issue about whether people can still get fired if they fail a drug test that their business employs. is that opening up a new legal issue for businesses there? >> it's a complicated issue. here you have a drug that is illegal federally, but is legal in the state, yet the employers have all the rites to fire as they will. they can still do drug tests. if you test positively, they can fire you, and there has been a

court precedent in the last couple of years. a gentleman did get fired. he was working for a cable provider and was fired. even though it was medical he took them to court and ended up loses the case. the employer won. we have been careful to let et readers know that this is an offence that can get you fired. >> we have a viewer question, let's go to jena for that. >> how can you tell if the person has purchased legal marijuana or illegal marijuana. they give the example that if a cop finds illegal marijuana on a person down the street. how does he know if it was purchased legally. >> that's a good question. the cop won't be able to tell if it was purchased from a dealer. ultimately it doesn't matter. the law protects citizens to hold up to an ounce. if you have a medical marijuana licence, you can hold up to two ounces. >> what do you think this will

mean for the black market. do you think this will see drug dealers, as marijuana - recreational marijuana prices coming down. will they focus on other drugs, or do you think there'll be a market there? >> i think the black market is not going anywhere. from the interaction that we have had via social media, the people tied to the black market are there, but i don't think it will thrive as it has in the past, six because you can now walk into a store and buy it. it's taxed, it's socially accepted for the most part. >> it's a very interesting experiment going on in colorado. thank you for joining us to keep us posted on what it happening. appreciate your time. straight ahead - watching sports in person is a major part of america's culture. is that demand on decline. and later, dennis rodman ser nads north korea's dictator.

we'll run down what he calls basketball diplomacy, and whether it's having an impact.

today's data dive takes a seat in the rooting section. it appears most of you will rather not. we see rising prices for tickets, hot dogs, more fans are staying on the couches. a 60 minutes vanity fair pole

finds: >> >> that's more than want to see a game, reflecting declines in attendance. major league baseball tickets dropped by 800,000. the yankees sold more than 3 million seats, to do it they had to sell half-off tickets on discount sites and groupon. n.f.l. went up slightly, following four years of decline, compared to the fact it was the second-most watched year in history by tv viewers. it's a struggle to get the fans to n.b.a. charlotte held buy one, get one free. and the miami bucks held a buck night - tickets for a dollar. the phoenix son had a money back guarantee to any fans unhappy with the team's performance, or if they got a cold hotdog or flat beer. >> in 2011 the new jersey nets watched a bidding war.

dropping from $0.25 to 11. no wonder they moved to brooklyn. it doesn't have to do with performance, the tampa bay rays was the first team in history to have the lowest attendance. many of the teams that are drawing plans have plenty of detractors. the hated teams are the new york yank e the miami patriots. they have all won a title in the last five years. people prefer the underdog. i'm a yankee fan. >> dennis rodman's trip to north korea grabbed headlines. has it made an impact?

>> basketball diplomacy or same basketball diplomacy, and the same old dennis rodman. he spent time honouring kim jong un in north korea with a happy birthday ceremony, and refused to bring up the bright of kenneth bae, suggesting that kenneth bae was responsible for his situation. >> for more i'm joined by dave

ziran. presenter and auther. i would be happy not to hear the name dennis rodman. he insists he's doing basketball diplomacy, but is refusing to help an american in prison. is he having an impact or are we wasting time talking about him? >> we are not wasting our time, as comical, self-destructive that we may fined dennis rodman, the fact is that you and i are talking about north korea, part of the axis of evil, a nuclear power, enemy of the united states. bay where are is back in the headlines. why is that, because dennis rodman is going to north korea, it's an unintended consequence. >> unintended consequence, but it makes dennis rodman get all this publicity.

who knows what money he's getting from the north koreans, what about the critics that say by going there he's validating the regime. >> the critics can't have it both ways, he's other a clown and a buffoon, or he's burnishing and buffeting a dictatorship. you can't have it both ways. the best way to look at it is o understand that we live in a country that has an ignorance on north korea. i was on espn. they had a professor from stamford an expert speak. a stamford trained professor, an expert in north korea talking on espn. that, unfortunately, is how sport diplomacy works. a lot of people only read the sports page and the front page. if athletes direct attention, no matter how self-serving, it has a positive ripple affect. >> let's turn to the baseball

hall of fame. it's nice to talk about something positive. three guys elected to the hall of fame, guys not tainted by anything. it's good to have good guys getting into the hall of fame. >> not exactly. one of them, sorry to be that guy. it's six people going in. three managers as well. one one of whom is tony ralusa, a steroid and ped apologist of the last generation, it boggles my mind that the baseball writers are sank tim ownius about barry bonds and roger clements and barry ruso gets in the back door. makes a mockery about the hard line of performance enhancing drugs. >> mike piazza did not get in, sammy soso with home runs. is it clear, and roger clemmens

would have been a shoe in. if he had retired the first time and not come back or retired and not taken steroids, is it clear that these guys will never get in. >> that's clear. it's like the expression from the dark knight. die a hero or live long enough to become a villain. that's what the guys did. it bothers me, because it's supposed to be a museum of baseball history, now it's a one that doesn't have the all-time leader, and the best time pitcher. i don't see how it represents baseball if they don't exist in the building. and the guy that hit most runs in the season, mark mcquire. >> big news from the world of soccer. a german player on the german team. tom as hiltsberger announced

he's gay. how much of an impact do you think he'll have because of the international platform. >> i think it's a huge deal. he has huge name recognition in europe and around the world. it starts a much-needed discussion. he's the third professional soccer player to come out. clearly there's more work to be done. >> as always, great to having you with us. look forward to having you back soon. the show may be over. the conversation conditions on the website. on facebook or google+ and twitter. see you next time.

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