thursday, answering questions, and defending leaking top secret information those are the headlines, "consider this" coming up next. remember, you can always get the latest news online at aljazeera.com. >> ukraine's protests erupt in violence, is russian president putin pulling the strings? inside the shadowy world of the al shabaab terrorist group. and how they can't stop talking about whisper. i'm antonio mora. welcome to "consider this".

the warehouse says it will consider sanctions against ukraine after crack down on antigovernment protestors. >> al shabaab. 1st of the most feared al qaeda affiliates. >> i don't understand the ship that sends the carrier into a nuclear plume and expects there to be no harm whatever to human life. >> her block is one of the funniest of 20th century is a tire. >> one of the most feared cartoonistless in the country. we given with the kiev intense truce with riot police. talks with yanukovych and police lasted for hours. 20,000 that a deal had been

offered. a deal that the protestors then rejected. for details on the situation and details, let's go to jennifer glasse in kiev. jennifer, glad to have you with us. what is the situation like now? is the truce holding? >> reporter: right now, antonio, a very tense standoff is going on. a few hundred yards from here, in independence square, the police are there, in their lines, holding their shields. the protestors standing maybe 50, 100 feet from them, behind their tire barricades, some of those tires burning but no stones being thrown at them, none of the flash grenades or any of the voyages we've seen in the last four days. it's very uneasy but it is holding right now. >> why did the protestors turn

it down? >> reporter: we, the three leaders of the opposition went to the presidential palace today, went to the palace today to talk to viktor yanukovych and they were offered a deal -- it is loud behind me. they do this every hour, they sing the national anthem behind me, i know it's a bi bit loud. the president offered them a deal, if they pull the demonstrators off the street, the government would agree to release anybody who had been detained during those demonstrations and consider a lesser sentence for those who have been arrested. kiev officials tell us 70 people have been detained just this

week. they brought that offer to the people here in the square. they turned it down and so, right now, people are staying where they are. protestors are staying where they are, over on the street but they have appealed for calm. >> protestor been stripped naked by police, and kicked him outside, before he was made to board a bus. >> we have a bad line here in kiev. it's not just here in ukraine that the protests are going on. we also have protests going on in other cities, in laviv, in rivne dmm chakasi.

and opposition have taken over state government buildings. i think you may have also mentioned, i'm very sorry, we have a terrible line here tonight. we may have mentioned that video of a protestor, stripped naked by police and brought out 52 the freezing cold. the temperatures have been subzero temperatures all week long. that has been on ukrainian television all day here. how police have abused power, protestors have been arrested, a number of protestors have been lifted off the streets or beaten by police. earlier yesterday when police moved forward in the street, where they have been fighting running battles, when they catch a protest they beat him quite brutally. so we have a very difficult situation in ukraine here tonight. everyone is watching and waiting

what might happen, antonio. >> the interior minister has apologized for that scene with the naked man. for more in the situation i'm joined by 9 ah kucheva, the author of an upcoming book, the great gran granddaughter of nika khrushchev. are most of these protestors in the western part of the country that is more attached to europe or is this a national movement? >> it is a national movement, it kiev was on the eastern part of the country, not the western part of the country. the russian part of ukraine so to speak. it is a national movement although of course the western

part of the country is much more attuned to what's happening in the west and is much more willing to go with european union than eastern part. it is a national movement. >> more attention was paid to one who was a former heavy weight champion of the world. >> different walks of life. one was a former politician in the yanukovych government, right wing leader and another one is a heavy weight champion. holding this opposition movement together, and so i mean, yanukovych prosmse promises cha. we don't know how much as your correspondent said. we have to wait until tomorrow because there is some willingness to at least do

little steps, basically make some concessions. because yanukovych probably understands that he is facing a civil war. >> he needs to pacify or there could be a civil war? >> there could be a civil war. does he want to be completely bought by rudz or even in-- russia or even bought by russia if it goes badly? >> i want to get to that in a moment. but the protestors want the president to cancel the antiprotest law that set off the violence last sunday. do you think he'll agree with some of that? >> he may agree to some of that, even though they rejected some of the offers so far there's still some sort of truce. so they really didn't reject it altogether. they didn't attack police yet again. it is possible that yanukovych

will make some sort of deal. the parties are meeting next tuesday so there will be some questions addressed, it is probably viable that he will come up with some solutions and maybe somehow soften it because for now it is a really brutal and tough law. >> and the white house has started to make noise about this. the white house called on the president yanukovych, white house spokesman jay carney also spoke out, said the white house was threatening sanctions unless they did something. will that have any kind of effect on yanukovych? >> hard to say. some people are threatening sanctions but say sanctions, angela merkel set for example, sanction he are not going to do any good. there is not much unity on the side of western leaders.

they do ask for less violence but at the same time they really haven't agreed what kind of policy they unitedly have towards ukraine. i think that actually complicates rather than helps. >> this all started a couple of months ago, because of president yanukovych not accepting a deal that would basically get ukraine closer to the european union, instead taking billions of dollars of aid from russia. sebastopol is where most of the black sea fleet of the russians is. >> there is a longer story than that. original russia was kiev in russia. a lot of it is about putin, unfortunately a lot of western response is about putin.

not so much how to help ukraine but how to stick it to putin. i think when ukraine remains this kind of target and each side is trying to pull it together to stick it to the other side, ukraine is really lost in that battle, and that is important, it is an important, independent cup-- country. >> that the west wants a coupe? >> unfortunately that's the party line so to speak. authoritarian people are great it's just your bad influence that makes them not to great. >> it's a pleasure to have you here. >> thank you very much. switches topics now from ukraine to somalia, we're going to show you extraordinary video of al-shabab

's westgate mall. but they are more than those fighters, it also provides policing and a sort of structure in an area where the somali government has no presence at all. these are pictures of what life is like under al-shabab. >> reporter: i followed the al-shabab on their bit. the first stop was this restaurant, telling the female owner to remove the rubbish from outside. then they make their way to the local hospital, where they check the pharmacy for out of date medicine, but as soon as they hear the call to prayer,

everything stops. people head to the mosque for midday prayer whether they like it or not. passing vehicles are pulled over. the al-shabab police make sure everyone goes to the mosque. >> or else. for more on al-shabab, i'm joined by john timmen, director of africa programs for the united states institute of peace, also from los angeles is tim, a former fbi special agent and counter terror investigator. great to have you both on the show tonight. john, i want to start with you. this week's somalia's prime said. . .. an the government do that?

how strong is al-shabab? >> the government certainly can't do that on their own. they may be able to do it with assistance, particularly from the african union mission in somali, and one of the positive development has be that that au mission has beefed up its capacity by adds several thousand ethiopian troops. shabab itself is not that large. 5,000 troops and given that modest size, it's remarkable what they're able to achieve in some ways. >> well, i'd like to play some sound that jamal osmond did, get your reaction.

so this was shot for british tv. the question was about britain. but clearly, that terrorist said, america is number 1. how much of a threat does al shabaab pose here in the home land and in east africa? >> antonio, this is a recruiting ground for al shabaab. fortunately for us, many of of those somalis, living in america, that could be a very big problem for some of our major cities. including washington, d.c, area, which has a large somali area, in d.c. proper, in northern virginia, cities like minneapolis, st. paul or even seattle. their recruiting areas have not

been diminished anywhere in the world. >> we asked this reporter what he thought of al shabaab, and here is what they said: >> they told me they appreciate bringing law and order. i asked local, what life is like now under the self appointed al shabaab rule? >> so he said, it's very good day and night it's a safe place we're e-not afraid, we don't hear gun shots. but does that appeal to somalis, they govern by fear but at least they bring some sort of order no matter how brutal it is? >> it is important to remember the context here. somalia for close to 20 years has not had a functioning

government, and it only has a semi-functioning government in a small slice of the country. there may be order that al shabaab brings, is appreciated, but i don't think they're popular at all with the somali people and many somali people, if given the alternatives, would 23 want a al shabaab government. >> it's a group of suicide bombers is oversubscribed, and only the best recruits get in. is the suicide brigade the only reason to be concerned for these guys? >> absolutely. it is easy to defeat an enemy in battle when they have a will to live. because wounding and killing them is a threat to them. when the individual's utmost desire is to die and die when

killing their perceived enemies is a threat. a person strapping a very small bomb on themselves on a plane, can take down adults in a mall or in a movie theater, they walked into that mall and sought the weakest and most vulnerable people, they killed dozens of people, mowed them down, using the excuse that their own children had been killed. but bringing the war to innocent civilians in a mall to show your point, shows the absolute brutality of the organization, numerous people in the organization that believe implicitly in that cause. >> clearly regarded the attack on the mall as a triumph and a great thing. john what will it take to end the threat from africa and america from al shabaab? >> it will take a more

legitimate, more organized government in somalia and again, that hasn't been done in more than 20 years, since the black hawk down incident and earlier. when the government was installed a couple of years ago and seems or the more organized than hes predecessors, but there is a long way to go. drawing up the recruitment pool for al shabaab, if that pool can be diminished then there are some military options for going after the hard core of shabaab. >> thanks for joining us. coming up the fukushima nuclear disaster, suing because of the radiation they are exposed to. and our social media producer hermella aregawi, is tracking what's trending.

what's up hermella? >> conditions down right frightening. i'll have the details after the break. what do you think? on aj consider this, google plus and twitter. and you'll get... the inside story ray suarez hosts inside story weekdays at 5pm et / 2pm pt only on al jazeera america al jazeera america. we understand that every news story begins and ends with people. >> the efforts are focused on rescuing stranded residents. >> we pursue that story beyond the headline, pass the spokesperson, to the streets. >> thousands of riot police deployed across the capital. >> we put all of our global resources behind every story. >> it is a scene of utter devastation. >> and follow it no matter where it leads - all the way to you. al jazeera america, take a new look at news.

nearly three years after a >> nearly three years after a deadly tsunami in japan caused the being worse nuclear disaster since chernobyl, 73 naval officers are suing fukushima daiichi power plant.

as al jazeera's gianna tobioni explains, frightening illnesses including are hemorrhaging and cancer. >> what i went through is 100% changed my life forever. >> 70,000 u.s. military personnel were located where the fukushima power plant leaked radiation. michael seaborne, was assigned to check. >> the air was 300 times higher than a normal day of the sun. >> seaborne and his team says they were exposed to these levels, and now three years later, he is feeling the effects. >> i have about 60%, 50 to 60% of the power i used to have out of the right side of my body.

>> steve simmons say his life will never be the same. simmons among others said they drank contaminated desalinated sea water. cooked with it, bathed with it, the effects are now debilitating. >> out of nowhere i dropped 20 to 25 pounds completely unexpectedly. i dealt with night sweats and the illness keeps going. >> he continues to lose power between his legs and arms. signals between his legs and arms are being being interrupted. >> all she could think about was ada's going to die. >> navy personnel who say they were exposed to radiation have babded together in a lawsuit against a tokyo electric power company or tepco.

that operated the power plant. >> tepco lied. i can't understand how you could place a ship like a carrier into a nuclear plume for five hours, scusuck up contaminants and thik there could be no effect to human life. >> it has been determined that none of the nearly 70,000 members of the dod population are known to be affected by radiation add adverse medical levels. >> at no point am i casting blame or putting blame on dod, or u.s. government. if they had had notification in a timely manner there wouldn't have been any approximate. >> some place for all 70,000

people, make sure we're taken care of down the road where we are really needed. >> gianna tobioni, al jazeera. >> former u.s. navy sailor who was a designated radiation decontamination sailor, dealt with personnel that flew into the area after the state of the union. you havtsunami. how are you doing? >> physically, i have my issues but i'm doing good, thank you. >> the lawsuit was dismissed late last year but the suit has been refiled. the number of sailors is growing, more than 70 now. they said that tepco knew there were dangerous levels of radiation, said nothing and let navy ships and planes go into that area.

>> that's correct. you know it's almost -- we take operational risk measurements when we're deciding what we're going to do. the level of assistance that we can give to the japanese people of course our first reaction was to go help. but we're not going to help ourselves into undue harm's way to be able to go assist. so we took what they said, what tepco was saying and the high-ups in the military came up with a plan on how close we could get, the kind of effort and relief efforts that we could provide, based on what we were being told and then turns out that what we were being told was false. >> now you were doing your work at an american air base that was quite a distance from fukushima. what was happening then you were dealing, checking airplanes as they came back and helicopters as they came back from the area and you found some incredibly high numbers as you were doing that. >> that's correct. we started off, power base had completely evacuated.

all of the aircraft had gone to guam, the family members were evacuated. we were told we may never come back to that base again. we were told to put our names and contact information into our windows of our houses and to the dashboards of our cars because that fukushima japan may be too dangerous to ever come back to. we did relief efforts out of masawa a much safer area but after -- it gets very cold up there and because of the snow, because of the mountains we couldn't get over the mountains to continue the releafl efforts. we actually went back to atsugi to continue relief efforts that on a 24 hour notice if anything got worse we would be evacuating out there to uwakuni and never coming back to yasugi. >> at some points you found levels four times higher than

you would be required to wear a suit? >> that's correct. after the operation had started to die down we still had aircraft that were radiated. but we would decontaminate and measure the outside skin of the aircraft which is what we were taught, what we were instruct to do by the written instructions from the higher-ups. we had aircraft that had flown back, had stopped performing missions. the levels were down, we thought they were safe. but all of a sudden it's time for preventive maintenance. we had to pull the radiator out. everything that comes out of the aircraft has to scan, and it's reading over 20,000 ccpm, which you said was four times higher than the level we should be wearing not only a tyvex suit and rubber gloves, bus seating

inside the aircraft, we were never instructed to take out internal components of the aircraft when trying to measure radiation. we were doing the airframe. that was a scary moment there. >> many of the people who were suing were on the u.s.s. ronald reagan who were sent to help. they went right into a radiation plume and they desalinate the water on the airplane -- this made them terribly sick. so why not sue the navy? why just sue the tokyo company? >> well, for -- first off there's a lot of guys on the suit that are still in the military. and you constant sue the navy. you can't do that -- can't do the navy. when you sign contracts when

you're up for service you can't do that. i think the navy did the best they could. obviously the skipper of an aircraft carrier with 6800 people and 8800 aircraft is not going to steam right into a plume of radiation. if he knows what's safe and what's not and if he has the correct information then they wouldn't have been as close as they were. >> right. >> so we were there to help. and like i said, in the beginning, we can make our calculated risk decisions and figure out how safe we can get, how close we can get while not putting our guys in danger. and if the dangers are higher than we're being told, then you know, i this i the navy -- i think the navy did the best we could with what information we had. it's just the information we had wasn't 100% correct. >> i hate to be a devil's advocate but if there were thousands of people on the

reagan, why didn't more people get sick? in fact the world health organization say residents that were evacuated were exposed to so little radiation that health impacts will be below detectable levels. what do you say that? >> honestly, that sounds ridiculous to me. those individuals who were evacuated haven't even gone back home. there's a reason for that. if these levels are completely safe, 100% why did tepco agree to pay each individual who lived in that area 50,000 yen to compensate them for that? the members of the reagan, why so little? in the military you're understood, you're expected to do your job and a lot of these guys that are still in the navy, they don't want to come forward because they fear backlash. and there's also a lot of guys that if you're not having you know medical issues at the moment, then i'm sure they think

nothing's wrong. now you got 20, 30, 40 people on the u.s.s. reagan that are in their 20s and early 30s that have come down with some form of cancer. one or two i questions you can call that a coincidence. but 20, 30, 40 -- >> but the navy hasn't changed their position on this. they say they don't believe the claims, a spokesman says worst case radiation exposure is less than 25% of the radiation exposure from natural sources of background radiation such as the sun, rocks and soil. what do you think of that, that the navy isn't taking your point? >> to that point, i was there so i'm measuring the background radiation. and if the normal background radiation is normally from nine to 15 ccpm and i'm registering three to 500 in the air, some of

these numbers are skewed. but honestly about the navy not taking our side, i will say i understand it. it's a very political issue. the navy and the japanese need each other. we need them to be allies with us. i was in japan for 17 years, i was there for a long time. i saw the crimes that happened against the japanese people, i saw the murders, the rapes, the assaults, at a certain point we were completely on lock down where we couldn't be outside the base past 8:00 p.m, there was a curfew in place because of crimes committed by service members. in okinawa, the government questioned whether the navy should operate out of there. for us to sue the electric power company for what happened, i completely understand the u.s. navy taking the political side to be able to keep on the good spirits of the japanese

government. so i don't blame them whatsoever. that's the stance they have to take. so it's understood with me. >> so michael seaborne i hope you get well and i hope that for all the other sailors and we will have to see what comes of the congressly mandated investigation. >> thank you very much, have a good day. let's see what's trending. hermella. >> antonio, we spoke with david satter, kicked out of russia. >> action taken against me is intended to intimidate everyone. and it will have that effect. >> according to the glasnos defense foundation, intimidation of journalists is rampant in russia. 1600 media contacts in 2013 alone. 84 cases of reporters detained by authorities, 71 attacks on

journalists and four deaths. 16 reporters have been murdered in russia in the past decade, in 13 of those cases no one was brought to justice, in three of them only low level suspects were. the results, journalists are afraid to expose corruption. independent journalism in sochi. for more check out our website, aljazeera.com. tweet to u us at a @ajconsidert. political cartoons used to drive political opinion, so what happened to them?

>> evey sunday night, join us for exclusive, revealing, and suprizing talks with the most interesting people of our time. >> our journalists are the best journalists in the world. >> she's the first female executive editor of the new york times. >> there's no question that the editorial stance is a liberal point of view. >> the head of the paper of record goes on the record with talk to al jazeera. taj

why have more than 11 million young people reportedly >> have more than 11 million young people reportedly abandoned facebook since 2007? whisper, a sort of anti-facebook, where people can report their desires in anonymity. joining us is nancy sales, author of the bling ring, the way teens act and live because of it. it's great to have you on the show. you type a message, you pick a website that the message gives you. i screwed up by leaving maria. true story.

i would like online dating, this one says, i just gave my favorite umbrella to a woman carrying her baby in the rain. i don't carey nancy. i don't care about these people and they don't want me to know who they are. why is this so plamp? >> you have -- popular? >> there is so many different types of social media. many kids are on different types. typically, when i interview kids about social media they're on five, ten, sometimes more. this is a new one that they're flocking to sometimes now. anonymity is an issue. they voice all kinds of opinions would you knowing who they are because anonymity freeze that up i think.

>> molly, the app reportedly gets over three billion page views per month. more than linked in, word press, at aotime. can't you do some of the same things at the same time, with an noanonymous tumblr account? >> you can if you want to. there is simplicity of a picture and putting a message up. it's yours, no one can argue with it. you throw it into the ether of whisper. without perceiving to be traceable. >> what i don't understand is you have written nancy about young people seeking validation on social media. what is the value of this, you

don't know who these people are who are clicking that they like what you posted? >> well, i mean there's a creativity to it, that's the light side. the dark side is, there's a kind of power, there's a talking lurking element in social media that we can't dismiss that's part of its appeal, i think. >> now molly, the early internet, the web 1.0 was completely anonymous. nobody knew who they were talking to in those chat rooms 20 years ago and then online identity became everything when we saw myspace, facebook, instagram and twitter. why do you think people are going back to anonymity? >> there's a reason why facebook is used as a commenting medium on their own sites. that's where the value is, but kids are smarted and they know

that their facebook makes them traceable. when i had facebook and it first started it was cool because you had to have a college e-mail address and my parents and at least i thought my future social employers wouldn't see this stuff but kids know they will get caught, you will get traced, at least most of them do, the backlash is they don't want to leave a footprint. they want to share and post and even go viral but they want to do it in their own terms. it is the digital equivalent of running to your room and slamming the door. you hide what you want. >> i don't think people are going back to anonymity. i don't think that's part of it, the social media is narcissistic, having likes and followers and friends. that's part of what it's all about. your popularity is very

quantified. people like to have a place as she was saying where they can do something in secret. the equivalent of that place in the woods or the parking lot where kids used to hang out and drink beer. that's going to be part of it. but the whole way that social media is creating a kind of pressure to become sort of famous in a public way, has not abated at all. >> and molly, talking about this narcissisnarcissism, you are clo the 18 to 24s than we are. >> i'm definitely considered old, as far as internet goes, which is a whole different problem. kids know what it is to go viral. when i was in facebook and got likes, there was a certain validation to that.

but i didn't have a concept of going viral on the entire internet in my mind and now we are going to see whisper posts that go viral and are being shared on reddit, we don't know who shared them, sometime we might, but that's left to be seen but kids want to write things that gets the internet talking. >> i would bet as soon as things start to go viral kids will take ownership of them. >> just a very quick answer, forecast is this a flash in the pan or not molly? >> it's hard to say. i think they have a lot of staying power at least right now. they have a lot of investment, money, they are hiring really, really intelligently. it hasn't peaked yet. >> almost 30 million invested. what do you think? >> i think it's another aspect. this is our culture now, for

better or worse and i think there's going to be all different types of social media. there are those who will want to be known and those who will not want to be known but i think overall it's going to be a way in which people try promote themselves. >> interesting to look at and to think about. molly and nancy, thank you for your time. straight ahead, should you envy your dentist? we'll explain in data dive. the lost art of cartoons. why some of the most influential people at your local people have gone away.

>> every sunday night aljazeera america presents extraodinary films from the world's top documetary directors. >> it's the world's most powerful financial institution. >> i think we're mysterious to people. >> what really goes on behind closed doors? >> the fed is kind of this black box. >> it's your money... >> somebody screwed up. >> ... or is it? >> i worked to save that money and now i get nothing. >> inside the fed. on al jazeera america.

today's data dive looks at jobs. >> today's data dive looks at jobs. what are the begs industries if you are hunting for -- best industries if you are hunting for work? health care and technology. the top 15 are all in those two industries. the study looked at several factors, including job growth, median salary, stress levels and work life balance among others. pharmacist is number 5, thanks to a 14.5% job growth in the next five years. nurse practitioner in fourth place, dentists, however they came in first last year and this is the first time a health spot did not go to a health care career. computer specialty, $12,000 jump

in average salary, at nearly $84,000. top spot, to software developer. are from candy crush to the latest app for your iphone. we all depend on them one way or another. with the average worker only staying on the job for four and a half years, it makes sense to look around. the worst time is when you're about to go to work or life change or on the verge of buying a house. while the employment outlook has improved, most people are leap to simply have a job. coming up. the man who connected nixon to watergate long before woodward and bernstein, next. what to expect. >> international outrage. >> a day of political posturing. >> every morning from 5 to 9 am al jazeera america brings you more us and global news than any

other american news channel. >> tell us exactly what is behind this story. >> from more sources around the world. >> the situation has intensified here at the border. >> start every morning, every day 5am to 9 eastern. >> with al jazeera america.

>> for decades in washington one of the most powerful political commentators was a cartoonist. the pulitzer prize winner's 55 year career. >> if someone had said, all right, what would you think that guy did for a living? i wouldn't have said, the most feared editorial cartoonist in the country. >> sometimes you would open up the washington post and, it was like a slap in the face. >> if they fell short he was like disappointed, not angry. >> her block was one of the most sensitive in the country. >> i bet you they said holy moly at times. >> you get that person with that kind of a vision, it is a once-in-a-lifetime deal.

>> george stephens produced the film that debuts on hbo on sunday. multia&m award winner. his son michael directed the film. great to have you on the program. you wouldn't think of him as the most powerful cartoonist in the country. >> he drew up to six weeks before he died and he was on that editorial page of the washington post with as we would say in the movie world, final cut. nobody told him what to draw and he just did it so well. >> five days a week, year after year. >> and he was syndicated in 110 newspapers around the country. >> that's something people can't understand, just the importance of political cartoonist throughout his life.

because now you're looking at some of these number. at the start of the 20th century there were 2,000 editorial cartoonists and recently the number is less than 40. why last that happened? >> well, the world is changing. we have al jazeera. we have cable. and you know, all sorts of different ways of communicating. and the newspaper is not what it used to be. >> it really is a sad statement, though, to lose this art form that has been so important so many different ways. by ironically in the movie tom brokaw talks about the modern version of the is satire that political cartoonists brought. he speaks about john stewart and colbert. >> john stuart is in the herb block film and he refers to herb

as a touchstone for political is satire. >> it wasn't just his political satire. his understanding of the washington political scene, woodward and bernstein said he was on top of watergate more than they were. >> handed him a cartoon to look at and it was one of footsteps going to the warehouse with names on them and it was the watergate people. bob looked at the date and he said my god, this is six days after the brai-in. herb knew. it took us a year to find out. but he said he'd known nixon from the beginning, from the helen gehagan douglas days. >> from the '50s and he didn't really like him very much, did

he? >> it was about character, had he a sense. and he was a very hard-working reporter-researcher. his car too long was based on information and fact. and he was very determined to get it right. >> and he was also courageous. going back to the 1950s and mccarthyism. in fact he is the one that coined the term. >> exactly with a cartoon, after a naming wheeling, west virginia speech, i they are showing it, he wrote at the tom, mccarthyism. and mccarthy was ruining people right and left. >> in washington and out in hollywood. >> yes. >> and so it took a lot of courage to stand up to mccarthy at that point. >> exactly. herb was fearless. >> it was really amazing to see that he was able to stand up to those power players as a

cartoonist. now people don't know that much about him. he really had a very interesting background. >> that's why we made the film. yeah. >> one of the things that you found, you know, he was a very humble guy. but then, you found out that he was unbelievably rich. >> well, that too. yes, one thing katherine graham, the publisher of the washington post, had famously said, don't mess with herb. he was a tough guy. but you're talking about, herb wore a gabardine jacket, little hat, never owned a car, played at haynes point, down by the jefferson memorial. but along the way phil graham when the post was the third ranked newspaper, came to herb who was a bachelor and had saved

some money, said i need investment. the stock split 60 times and twice more. and when herb died haynes johnson in the film said lawyer called me and said herb's asked you to be on a foundation. he named 20 people to be on a foundation. mains said may i ask how much money did mesh leave? and i thought he said $6 million. he said $60 million. after taxes. $90 million. and so herb had accumulated all this money, but it didn't change hit life at all. >> incredible character, it's a wonderful story to tell, you tell it very well, it's great to have you here. >> thank you antonio. >> herb block it will the black and the white.

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