are not good. just watch and take in the spectacle. >> good advice pro-surfer will skooten, in his own words. that's the news. news at the top of every hour. thanks for watching. >> hi, i'm lisa fletcher and i'm in the stream. is al qaeda making a come back? >> our digital producer wajahat ali, waj, since 9/11 al qaeda has been viewed by many as our

biggest opponent, but there have been questions about how effectively in countering them. >> the killing of osama bin laden as being, a come back is hard to perceive, however we see a resurgence of al qaeda and affiliated groups. and on facebook, aisha says this new group is undefined, a lot more dangerous to peace everywhere. they don't have national ties anymore. and ayman al sawihiri, u.s. createa monsters, they have all heard it. social media's role very topic topical. syrian electronic army which is

loyal to the assad regime. three years al qaeda has been destroying the syrian state and so forth. this is very topical, very relevant. >> i think created a monster, i'm sure a lot of people are asking how, and we'll get into that. with bin laden dead and its top ranks on the run, president obama says al qaeda' al qaeda'ss been decimated. said the organization was on the path to defeat but many analysts are highlighting a resurgence of al qaeda. some note that the organization is in more places than ever before, particularly syria and iraq. does it still constitute a serious threat to u.s. national security? david gurstei nrveg ross, and brian jenkins, sr. advisor to

the rand corporation and author of many books on terrorism topic. juan cole, university of michigan and shahid, thanks oall of you for being here. so juan, how is the al qaeda of today different from the al qaeda that attacked the u.s. on 9/11? >> well, in my view, it's a mistake to refer both to core al qaeda and to the affiliates in syria and iraq as all queald. al qaeda. the original al qaeda was in fact multinational and it made a decision to hit the far even my, the united states first before engaging in local battles because it felt that the united states were propping up these local states. so the things that are being called al qaeda in iraq and

syria are not like that at all. they are not multinational. they have a national focus and they are not interested very much in hitting the united states. they're just radical sunni islam political slawrm. islam so i don't think it is the same. when david renniik made a statement, president obama countered by, just because there's a kobe brighten doesn't mean they're nba. david i want to go to you. a significant part of al qaeda's leadership has been taken out. how does that affect their ability to coordinate or carry on any kind of an attack?

>> i question that a significant portion has been taken out and is down for the count. whether we look at al qaeda and its senior leadership, it is a clandestine leadership, cellular in nature. studies that have been done on this show it's very difficult to beat such an organization through a strategy that's just based on attrition of leadership. which is basically what our strategy is and what our drone campaign is premise id in. >> a false sense of security? >> i wouldn't say that, that's taking it a little bit too far. but i think number 1 we have a conception that's incorrect about what beats an enemy like this. secondly, what can be considered al qaeda? i respectfully disagree with professor cole. this is not a statement of ideology. it is a statement of fact. the facts are difficult to determine, the question is whether the core leadership can

exercise control over these affiliates. in syria you see some evidence of that. abu halid al suri is also a high leader with a group on the ground called arir asham. ultimately while professor cole is right, they are not bent on attacking the u.s. now, regional focused with the u.s. being a focus, because they thought u.s. would stop them from accomplishing their goals in the region. >> do you think they pose a threat? >> they present not necessarily an immediate threat to the security of the united states. but they do represent certainly a threat to the region. what we see now in al qaeda is, al qaeda is much more decentralized. much more dependent on these

affiliates. its allies, its ability to inspire home grown terrorists. the fact that these local organizations have reached out to the al qaeda name, indicates that the brand still has some attraction. the question is, whether al qaeda's leadership, by insinuating itself into these local conflicts, will be able, over time, to basically bring them into the al qaeda ideology of attacking the far enemy, the united states. >> our community chiming in, al qaeda as a brand, al qaeda is not an organization but a brand of terrorism. gail on facebook grace with professor cole. there is a difference between people acting out in their own territory and the same sentiment to the united states. we don't need to act out against

those acting out on their own soil. horn ever africa, syria, iraq, and yemen as well. ayman al sawahiri, seize control of a state or part of a state, somewhere in the muslim world, adding that without achieving this goal, they will achieve nothing. death by a thousand cuts. do you think this new al qaeda shares those same strategic goals and has it been successful? >> absolutely, they do share the same goals. as for the first one we do see they actually do control some territory, in northern syria isis has controlled some area for the time. al shabaab which stands for the youth even though they have lost significant territory since the beginning of 2012 still controls

some geographic area in the southern part of syria. when they do, one of the things they do is impose their form of sherea law. they do have ideological reasons. the reason bashar al-assad chose to attack the u.s., such as the saudi regime, teen liquorics wouleven the clairkz clerics would have to rein in on them. especially given the instability

that's spreading through that region. >> early in the syrian insurrection, policy objects in syria without empowering those groups? think about that. we're going to talk about it, after the break. every day, someone leaves their home searching for a better life. >> two hours in, we come upon a body. >> now, in a breakthrough television event, al jazeera america takes you beyond the debate. experience first hand the tragic journey of these migrants. >> a lot of people don't have a clue what goes on until you live near the boarder. >> six strangers with different points of view... >> i don't believe in borders. >> our government is allowing an invasion. >> ...get to experience illegal immigration, up close and personal.

>> its very overwhelming to see this many people that have perished. >> a lot of families that don't know where their babies went. >> i want to make sure that her life, its remembered. >> what happens when lost lives are relived. >> the only way to find out is to see it yourselves. >> on borderland. only on al jazeera america. >> any of you guys want to come to the united states? result in students being arrested for minor violations. it's the school to prison pipeline. the obama administration has even weighed in on this. >> this is a must-see report. >> major cities facing homelessness. officials in chicago are making a push to document just how many people are homeless so they can offer up help in better ways. >> these are interesting stories. the united nations chief negotiator will be holding separate talks with warring sides from syria. they want to gauge the

willingness to sit at the table in geneva. as aljazeera reports, the summit got off to a rocky start. >> all syrian people at the moment want it to stop. >> in a condition presence that's supposed to talk peace, two sides are yelling at each both my parents are journalists. my grandfathers are journalists. it's just something that's in the blood. there are so many stories out there that need to be told. we want to go in to the trenches, we want to go in the corners that are less looked at. everyone at al jazeera america is dedicated to tell the story the best way that it can be told. ♪ welcome back. >> welcome back. we're talking about the evolution of al qaeda since 9/11 and we're looking specifically at the conundrum that they've created wit for the u.s. in syr. one, if the u.s. intention is to

support the syrian uprising how can it be translated away from a victory for al qaeda? >> the position has changed since 2011 in syria because of the rising of opposition groups. when ayman al zawahiri has to plead for the situation, that is not the sign of a unified organization. i discount these guys being unlike core al qaeda. bin laden would not have had to plead. a good two-thirds of the liberated territory is now controlled by extremists and the united states is simply not interested in supporting them or furthering their goals or allowing them to take ore

damascus. so although the congress has pressed president obama to arm the rebels, we haven't seen anything serious on that scale. and i think that likely, the u.s. will do what it did in the case of the algerian civil war which is just keep hands off until it subsides. >> okay but brian do these pleas that juan is talking about do they fall on deaf ears or do you suspect they might get some action and unify some of these road militias. is. >> i don't see unity coming to the conflict in syria. in fact i see syria disintegrating into a mosaic of territory, pieces of territory controlled by local militias. in part by government, in part by more extremist elements. aand the united states, and any other external actor, are really going to be marginal to the

conflict. that is, without a major military intervention. and i certainly don't see that in the cards. so syria, for the foreseeable future, is condemned to continue conflict. >> brian, you mention external actors and our facebook community is really talking about these external actors. foreign policy is the biggest threat to america's national security. assaf says al qaeda is actually usinuse been used as a proxy. and a video listen. >> al qaeda remains a huge concern for america. but let's be honest they can't pull off another 9/11 even though they seem to be a lot of places and the internet. and this includes syria, syria is a large concern for policy makers, most fellows fighting in

syria today don't want to blow up times square tomorrow. this is our obligation as americans and we have to meet it. >> how is al qaeda in syria being used by these regional players, like the shia iran block versus gulf states? >> they are receiving support from a number of gulf states like qatar and kuwait. i was doing field research in qatar earlier and while qatari aid is reaching the area, it is doing as a secondary is consequence. to reach the why syrian opposition like the syrian islamic front or a secondary effect.

>> brian is the territory that al qaeda occupies in syria completely under al qaeda's control? >> no, i think in control has to be put in quotes here. the fact is that the syrian army was obliged to withdraw from portions of the country, simply because a large portion of the syrian forces are comprised of sunni conscripts. and therefore, their reliability could not be guaranteed. it was more important to protect the capitol and to protect the ethnic and sectarian enclaves that are loyal to the regime. that accounts for a number of the so-called rebel advances. it is not certain that they exercise control. although, where they do have some control, it appears that they haven't learned many lessons from the past because

they're imposing a harsh form of sherea in some of these areas and that provokes local resistance. >> i'll say quickly one thing i think is going on is the assad regime is doing a lot lest to fight extremist factions than other factions. i think this is been a very deliberate machiavellian strategy. the pror extremist factions come to represent the factions, try to support any faction within this conflict. >> shift gears a little bit. shahad, i want to bring you into the conversation. talk about the level of sophistication of al qaeda in terms of social media. >> you keep in mind, this isn't your big brother's al qaeda, not where social media has been at the forefront. what al qaeda is doing is

morphing into something more anonymous. i think the statement from al zawahiri is, i think you're seeing on the ground in terms of you know what's coming out over social media, we've seen this before, we see them putting harsh measures in and local populations upset. you're going to see things fall apart that way. while the nature has changed it's more broad, but it's more shallow i think. >> social media, eric says, al qaeda has been very effective, first engage with them vee social media. and ravia, says i would argue that not instrumental from, and a video comment. give a listen. >> for me, the shift from closed source, password protected

forms, to more open source, open access, in promote -- in the promotes of jihadi material. photos and statements and like. but i see them always preaching to the choir, rather than winning more followers for al qaeda ideology. >> but ge jihaddists, they use twitter, youtube, how have they evolved, for recruitment and messaging? >> well, first of all i don't think it's as centralized as people think it is. what it is is a product of fact that you have young people who are already steeped in social media who are going there and using the only tools they know how and getting it out. that's one of the reasons the message is so authentic, youth talking to youth in the only language they know.

don't mistake that for being some kind of orchestrated effort to use social media to are propagate this. it is the type of factor of people going there from europe and other places, who are already speaking this media. >> shihad, i look at social media here in the u.s. and people will like or retweet or respond but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're engaged. some of these people want to loosely associate themselves to it but there's no consequence of it. who d how do you determine who s real and who is not? >> it's tough. we see in addition come and go in social media. some people like things they see but it doesn't necessarily illustrate a depth of what's in it. because the u.s. isn't directly involved, or western countries aren't directly involved on the ground, it is much more of a

sectarian sheen on it than others. i think people are going to project onto it their pr preexisting opinions. you see sectarian dissatisfaction, a biproduct that's stoked by social media. >> knowledge dissect what you call jihadi liberalism. >> some are going to syria determined to fight but some of them might be referred to as jihadi tourists. they cross the line, they remain at a safe distance from any fightings, they take pictures of themselves from their cell phones and send these back home to establish their credentials. it is possible that some of them over the long run will be radicalized. it does have some resonance with

their friends back home. but it is -- doesn't represent a significant threat right now to the security of any of these other countries. >> all right, well we've talked about al qaeda's growing sophistication on social media but what about u.s. online efforts in response? more after the break. first, here's a couple of stories we're following.

>> we're back and we're talking about the evolution of al qaeda particularly on social media. shahad, you were active on the outreach to the muslim world. do you think we're winning for the hearts and minds of young people there? >> i think it's a mixed record.

government is very much better at counterterrorism, any time the government reaches into the social media stream and tries to influence the outcome, you're going to see a mixed audience. take the accuse from the private sector. take a look at the way certain companies cultivate audiences that send their message for them. this is the best role for government. whether we have been successful we have just started that process of empowering and encouraging like-minded people to speak up against extremist narratives and to take that into their own hands. if communities at risk done do it we can't do it for them. >> social media is chiming in, we can't decide on a definition of whether this is the new al qaeda or something different. jarrod says, problem is ideology has allowed for the franchise to

become a movement. jaifejavier says, based on a onn army, resurfaced in syria and iraq, never lost the territory it had in yemen. elvis says, al qaeda will always be a threat, we can't let our guard down. looking into the future has the united states if you will won its cold war with al qaeda, doorgd your definition of-- according to your definition of it? >> won hands down. in the allocate '90s al qaeda had control of afghanistan, a major country. the 55th brigade, the best fighters, they have nothing now. and the united states whupped them. they are hiding out.

i would like to point out that in morocco, tunisia, ybor city, there haegypt,you've had seculas with egypt or modest, like alnafta which has won in elections and played politics in the western european way. so i would say much of the muslim world, al qaeda ideology is on the ropes. >> brian i'm wondering as the u.s. pulls out of afghanistan, does that become a new sanctuary for al qaeda? >> it certainly has that potential. but let me go back to the issue of the media. there may be pecular skepticism but al qaeda suspect selling any

cars either, despite a communications campaign aimed at radicalizing home grown terrorists, inspiring terrorist attacks in this country, they may have created a virtual army, but thus far it remains virtual. we have no evidence offully deep reservoirs of support -- of any deep reservoirs of support for al qaeda. the campaign has gained absolutely no traction among american muslims. the numbers of individuals who have been arrested for providing material support or more seriously plotting terrorist attacks in this country on behalf of this ideology is just a tiny -- a tiny turnout. >> i'm going ohave to pause you there brian because we are unfortunately out of time. thanks to all of our guests, david, brian and shahid.

until next time waj and i will see you online. >> car bomb in cairo. >> and we're just getting reports of a second explosion. hi there, i'm elizabeth perada, world news. time to talk, government talks about to begin in geneva. india's supreme court is about to investigate, a woman was gang raped