lombard pulling it off when he fell from the earth, 20 miles up on the stratosphere. top speeds at 143 miles per hour. thank you for watching aljazeera america. "the stream" is next. the producer is here and bringing in all of the live feed ball parks throughout the show. we are getting a live discussion on this. people are surprised it is unregulated and available to the kids. >> yes, the only a community surprises me. interpreter and this

ecigarettes are blamed for 161% increase in calls to poison control country. the cartridges come in a number of flavors and enticing to kids.

they are not child proof. they are popular among the teens with a survey finding that the number of high school students using them nearly doubled in just a year. so what exactly are the risks soe associated with the ecigarettes them. ray story is ceo of the association and drochlt george rogers from the children's hospital and the university of kentucky. welcome to the program. dr. rogers you are a toxicologist and director of the poison control center and we mentioned a trend to the calls to the poison control centers, and what are you seeing and is it disturbing to you? >> it is worrisome. we have seen six-fold increase

in the calls this year compared to last year. nationally 3-4 fold increase in the calls relating to ecigarettes and the concern for us is that these contain a liquid which is apparently fairly easily obtained by small children that break the cigarettes and gets into the vile and this material contains high con centrations of nicotine and cause symptoms and potentially death. >> what happens, the kids are playing with it and getting it on the skin, is that a concern? >> yes, adults can get burns from the stuff on the skin. it is probably not life threatening. it is certainly getting a child to the emergency room, a physician's office or hospitalized. >> ray, whoo is in the

cartridges? >> well, five ingredients all approved by the f.d.a. and human consumption. >> which means you can drink the cartridge and live? >> understanding, no, the ingredients if you took it in dosage anything to the s toicty level well, no. they have zero history of harm: in this particular product, apply the ingredients as a whole, no evidence that these products are harming anybody. >> do you know if they are safe? >> this is con a tra dikted by the doctors and the emergency rooms and kids being brought in with problems of vomiting and going into comas. nicotine is a dangerous drug and

not approved by the f.d.a.. the f.d.a. has not taken a position on nicotine as a drug. they have not regulated the ecigarettes yet. saying no danger to little kids and it is happening every day in the emergency rooms, ray, i think you have to worry about your credibility with those claims. what we do about this is something your industry should support, you ought to support for example making the cartridges child proof. when i take an aspirin i wrestle with the container. i can't see any reason why your industry is disagreeing that should be an appropriate warning to keep these things away from children, infants and toddlers. >> professor, at the end of the day any product for adults and adults only needs to stay out of

the hands of children and nonadults. but let's be very clear, that the toxic level of the product is determined by the dosage. we are trying to manufacture or support an industry that manufactures products br -- for adults that competes with tabacco products. >> we have 300% increase to the calls to poison control, no matter what you are trying to do they are getting into the hands of kids. we keep the drugs out of the hands of kids and not everybody is perfect and we are going to put child proof containers on them. can you oppose child proofing these things and protect the ever growing number of kids who are being brought into the emergency rooms and wind up in comas. >> professor, you didn't read up

on me as i did on you, i am for verification, and i am the one pushing for this product to become a legal product and the f.d.a. can impose the regulations on it. well, child proofing yes or no. >> wait a second. >> part of the problem is access. but if children can get access to these in a home, they'll get into them. that's where the child proof portion is coming in. tough assume that children will get into these and you have to make them as safe as you can make them. >> o this debate is exploding on line and whether the ingredients are healthy or not. nicotine is addictive and increasing your blood pressure and heart rate and leads to

heart disease and another one saying it is a vapor and found in foods and medicines. if nicotine is present anyone that says it is not addictive is & idiot and there should be age restrictions. it is good as a healthy alternative but i have seen stories where they have exploded. >> look at the experts, the cdc said a number of years ago when we had separate smokes in the restaurants, if you sit in the no smoking section and inhaled the smoke, within 30 minutes your risk of a heart attack rose to that of a smoker. suppose i am sitting here and the two of us puffing or vaping away and you are inhaling the nicotine from us for more than getting in a restaurant and your risk of a heart attack is more than that of a smoker, there is no question that nicotine is a deadly addictive

drug and it is classified that and anybody reputable is telling you that. >> second hand smoke, ray, aren't there elements that in traditional second hand smoke that is dangerous, including the unknown chemicals that are in ecigarettes? >> first of all, we are talking about smoke and va por. nicotine is a second degree product. we are about responsible regulation, age verification, face to face transactions and we are on board doing it responsibly. >> how about child proofing, sir? >> we are the first one, again, professor, as i read up on you,

you didn't read up on me, we pushed for the child safety packaging and at the end of the day, the regulatory structures have to assist us on that. >> ray, you push for ecigarettes 1400 times more safe than actual cigarettes and one of the things i notice as the tweets are coming in, what does that mean? >> look at, lisa, the nicotine as we know is still an addictive substance like caffeine is. we are wired that. we have a fondness of nicotine and caffeine. look at the cigarettes with 65 different car sin jens and compare it to the eecigarettes

adds the ent of the day, ecigarettes are and the vapor is harmless compared to a conventional cigarette. that the toxic levels are less than the levels currently allowed for say work place -- >> right, but 1400 times more safe, can i smoke 1400 to one and they are safe to me? >> not likely. there are carsinogens in the vapors and the other is the nicotine. they are designed to deliver nicotine as the same doze as a cigarette. when you talk about the nicotine, these are justs as toic or more toxic because of

the form in which they are present, liquid and flavored and more attract i to a child. >> once again, see what the experts say, the f.d.a. -- >> we are going to talk about what the f.d.a. has found and not found. there are concerns because of the increasing of the smeeking the cigarettes in high schoolers and middle schoolers and are they targeting the teens. we'll talk to ray about that and the implications after the break.

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>> start with one issue ad guests on all sides of the debate. and a host willing to ask the tough questions and you'll get... the inside story ray suarez hosts inside story weekdays at 5pm et / 2pm pt only on al jazeera america >> welcome back to the stream. we are talking about the health and safety of ecigarette and

ray, these products are coming in flavors like bubble gum and captain crunch and the lobbyists are working to keep the f.d.a. from regulating these products and some believe that you are blibly targeting the teens, is that true? >> that is not true. we have instituted age verification online and pushing for the retailers to make the adults. at the end of the day, this product is not targeted to the teens. the studies out there, these individuals were already smoking conventional cigarettes. we are proving that this product is less harmful and at the end of the day, we are trying to get the smokers to switch to a less harmful product, to be able to purchase that product.

>> are you saying that the middle schoolers and high schoolers were already smokers or referring to adults? >> no. the data is showing that some of the people that they have asked about the ecigarettes have tried or currently smoking conventional cigarettes, there is plenty of data to prove that. >> that is what the tabacco industry used to say, and we don't go after the kids, he keeps saying these things are safe, but the f.d.a. is saying we don't believe it, the f.d.a. has found carcinogens in them. the surgeon general report is naming the cigarettes. who do you trust the trade industry that the making the money from selling these things to kids and others or trust all of the private organizations and government organizations.

who do you trust? >> how do you look at the risks when no federal standards or federal regulations? >> it is hard. you get the data in the area is hard because of the lack of regulations. as a doctor, my fear is that these are entry level products that will lead to nicotine addiction. and probably as kids get older, become adults, some of them will stay with these cigarettes and some migrating back to traditional cigarettes. >> we are getting the community in here, sam is saying that ecigarette are not regulated and targeting the youth and others. on the flip side, love the candy flavored liquor. good ecigarette are no

cigarettes for me. another one saying it helps to lower health risk. e cigarettes helped me quick. doctor, there is a big debate in the community whether or not they are a gateway to harder smoking or marijuana or if indeed they actually help smokers stop smoking, what is the evidence subjecting? >> well the evidence subjects that we have known if you flavor cigarettes they are more attractive to younger smokers and we got rid of them in the traditional cigarettes a long time ago. they are going to be a gateway product. i think that the data very strongly suggests that children who start with cigarettes and in this case, e

cigarettes will move on to other drugs. >> that is what the experts are saying, that is why we call them candy steroids on cigarettes. now you can be a teen and you can pretend to puff and give out a vapor and also you are getting a hit on addictive drug. what could be better? yes, these kids are taking it up. they are becoming addicted to nicotine and remain addicted and more likely going on the regular cigarettes contributing to the $300 million costing the american public every year. >> professor, who are you blaming the regulatory structure or e cigarette trade association or the manufacturers for producing a product that you know is far less harmful in the data that you are discussing, we

have not seen the negative data. you can't talk about the negative data and not have it and after that say there is really no data available. >> let me answer the question, i'm knot just such products and in fact we supported the nicotine chewing gum and inhalers and they give the people the nicotine and they have proven to the satisfaction of impartial experts that they are safe. your product is not presenting the evidented and you are spewing various statistics from some where and nobody of consequence agrees with it. the tabacco industry had the doctors and the studies and confused us. >> ray, are there clinical

studies are you willing to submit those studies? >> there are plenty of studies down and it was published a couple of days ago clearly went through every aspect of the e cigarette and when talking about it -- >> have you submitted that to the f.d.a.? >> yes. i went after the f.d.a. to make sure that the product is legal and competing against the conventional cigarettes. not much you are able to tell me about the product. >> i was involved in the lawsuit and you weren't. >> that is interesting you say that, professor, it is smoking everywhere, and i didn't see you in the room at the end of the day. >> speaking about the f.d.a., i want to get the tweets in from the community, regulations, there should be some form of regulation to protect against the kids. there should be an age limit because they are drugs just a different delivery system and

one saying marketing side, someone with common sense is not going to sell an e cigarette without carding them. >> are they the future of smoking or a fad that will fad away. tweet us your thoughts. >> no doubt about it, innovation changes our lives. opening doors ... opening possibilities. taking the impossible from lab ... to life. on techknow, our scientists bring you a sneak-peak of the future, and take you behind the scenes at our evolving world. techknow - ideas, invention, life. on al jazeera america

welcome back. we are talking about e cigarettes, the risks they poes and the nature of the product and where they are going. what is the future? >> it is quite bright. some not seeing it going any

where and they seem to be a health substitute for tabacco. this is becoming an epidemic and they have to have regulations. most people are switching to e cigarettes to save money because it is cheaper than cigarettes and saying big tabacco is pumping out the e grets on their own. they are not fools. >> so john, speaking of corporate action look at the activities, they are buying up the smaller companies? >> nobody knows the future. >> they are buying them up. >> o that is to the point, which is what is going to happen to regulations when the big boys play like they are, is regulation likely or less likely? >> we don't know. when the tabacco industry is involved you worry about what is going

to happen. they can sell the cigarettes to kids and hook them and a now a way to quit. not. we don't know until the questions are answered but to scientific bodies and health organizations we don't know what is going to happen to them. >> doctor, what happens in the meantime, you are seeing the calls to the poison control centers and kids are coming to the er, what should do the folks? >> if you are having the e cigarettes in the home, recognize the fact that these are a potentially lethal toxin for children and you have to protect them and out of reach of small children. that is both the cigarette and the refill viles, if you are refilling your cartridges. >> speeming of regulations, we have a comment from robin, chicago is placing the limits on

e cigarettes and robin is from chicago. give it a listen. >> say they are banning e cigarettes in public places because of the children. well, the children are far more likely to see me outside a bar smoking a real cigarette than inside smoking a fake one. if you ask me, this has a lot to do with the fact they are getting a lot of money for the city on real cigarette taxes that they are not getting for fake cigarette taxes. >> ray, what do you think is the future regular eye lagss? >> it is going to come down hard on certain aspects of as we backed that some of the regulations, age verification is a major part of that. as the professor continues to say if you have age verification

and doing the right things at home, you are not going to have the issues. >> ray, hang on for a second, age verification, what difference does that make when products? >> compared to what, the gun laws in chicago? >> compared to nothing. you are talking about age verification like a barrier to the kids getting it, but the kids are permitted to buy this, i'm wondering what gate keeper that is? >> 40 different attorney generals went to washington to implement the age verification and i pushed for the age verification in california. we pushed for this product to become a legal product and compete bens the traditional tabacco because the cdc in atlanta they stated it was 1400 times less harmful and that

reduces the congress vengsal flack. >> the cdc never made that statement. nothing preventing the thousands of dealers from selling to a kid who is under age. yes, he's got the program and educating them, but no legal consequence if they do it. >> right? >> that is as true as you being part of the actual issue with the f.d.a. when the f.d.a. was sued by smoking everywhere. >> i was in the courtroom, sir. >> that is interesting, very interesting, i must have missed you. that was the case that clearly put the e cigarette on the market to where it competes against the conventional tabacco and the children with any product that is based for adults, like vodka, it is supposed to be for adults. >> on that note, ray, we have to stop you. we are out of time. thank you for the great discussion.

see you online. >> this is al jazeera. >> hello, welcome to the news hour. i'm folly bah thibault in doha. will this be his legacy? >> among the stories we're covering in europe? >> there are no