tests. four people have been arrested possibly in connection with his death. a bionic hand allows amputees to feel again. you can get the latest news on aljazeera.com. >> out of a russian prison, into a new york stage. the latest on the pussy riot saga. the tiger mom amy, will talk more. plus are robots coming the your job? and can you foafergh forgive a o almost killed you? i'm antonio mora, welcome to "consider this," here is more about what's ahead. >> removing tobacco products is

the right thing to do. >> smoking cessation in cvs is an amazing first step. >> obamacare is going ocause 2 million people fewer to have jobs. >> if you were released from jail, why? you're criminals. >> they got fed up with us. >> there's thousands more prisoners of conscience that are still sitting in the dark. >> i kicked him in the forehead. and he was out. >> i don't know if i could forgive somebody the way he's been able to forgive me. >> now you'll have a robot run the job. the fear of losing jobs fear of technology has been around for a long time. we'll all depend on robots in the next 40 years. >> we begin with cigarettes and nearly 280 billion were sold in the u.s. in 2013 despite widespread smoking bans and new taxes. now cvs, the second largest

drugstore chain in the country has decided to go cold turkey. >> we've come to the conclusion that tobacco in a setting where health care is being administered, those two just don't go together. >> president obama says cvs is setting a powerful example but what is the real impact of cvs's decision and does the tobacco industry care? we're joined by ruth valone, professor from university of san francisco and she joins us from that city today. good to have you with us ruth, i know you have studied in the past stores that have decided to stop selling tobacco. what is your reaction to cvs's decision? >> i think it's really quite interesting. it's not first retail chain that has done this but it is a landmark decision, i would say, with 7600 stores. this is going to take tobacco off the shelves of a lot of retail outlets.

>> but the reality is, 40% of people buy their cigarettes at gas stations. only 3.6% buy them at pharmacies. so is this move just symbolic in the big picture or do you think other stores are going to follow? >> i think that this is going to put pressure on other stores. particularly pharmacies. there are already other retailers. grocery stores have started -- to stop selling cigarettes and it's because they don't feel right about this anymore. our work showed that they really had stopped feeling good about selling these products. and when you consider how deadly these products are, to have them for sale in pharmacies that are supposed to be about health, it's just crazy. >> you know and cvs says that it will probably lose about $2 billion in sales in the short term. but on the other hand is it a shrewd pr move?

writing i'm going to go to cvs because of what cvs is doing. they could make more on prescriptions and health care and other things. >> i think it's a very smart pr move really for any retailer. , the fact is the cigarette is the single most deadly product, consumer product ever made. and there's nothing else that even comes close. tobacco killed 100 million people in the last century and we just can't have this continuing. and i think the new surgeon general's report really makes it clear that we need to start finding a way to end this horrible tobacco epidemic that causes so much suffering to so many people. and so many families have been impacted by this. it's true that taking out of a pharmacy won't, by itself, end the epidemic. but studies showed that seeing tobacco in retail outlets can cause people who are trying to

quit to relapse. so this is a very good step in removing it from these outlets. it may cause a few more people to be successful in their efforts to get free. >> because it still is the biggest preventible cause of disease and death in the u.s. but smoking rates have really declined drastically here. about 42% of adults smoked in 1965, only about 18% do today. but worldwide, there are actually more smokers now than there were in 1980. so does this really hurt tobacco companies much? >> in the short term, no. but in the long term, i think it is the beginning of the end for tobacco companies that they have been anticipating really, for more than 20 years. they do have their -- a lot of efforts going on in asia and africa to try to get women looked in countries where women

have not traditionally smoked. but there are also some very strong tobacco control efforts happening at the global level. so i don't know. i don't think in the short term, this is going ohurt them a great deal but in the longer term, i believe this is another marker of how smoking and tobacco and the tobacco industry are becoming less normal, less taken for granted in society. and that's important. >> on the other hand, they're betting pretty hard and they're lobbying hard for e-cigarettes. do you think that's going otake off? we have seen people as well-known as joarn, the speaker of thjohnboehner, the speaker oe house, with them. is this really in play? >> i don't think anybody knows how it's going to play out including the tobacco companies. they are acquiring e-cigarette companies. so i think the question is if we have both aggressive promotion

of combustible cigarettes and aggressive promotion of e-cigarettes then we have a worse public health situation. if we talk about phasing out combustible cigarettes for example, then it might be time to talk about e-cigarettes. they now have autoconsumer product that's acceptable. so i think there are a lot of things in play. the science is still coming out about e-cigarettes. we don't know everything there is to know yet. and i think it's a really interesting moment in terms of public health, and tobacco. >> there is still a lot to learn about e-cigarettes and we of course will follow this and see where it goes if other folks do follow. ruth malone thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> storm clouds that could threaten the u.s. economy. the dow jones industrials have dropped 7% this year and 5

points again on wednesday. the latest indicator is that job growths will not be hitting economists targets. that is one of a number of indicators that say the recent consensus 2014 would be a break through for the economy could be wrong. for that i'm joined by legendary investor jim rogers, the quantum fund, and the author of street smarts, adventures in the markets. >> glad to be with you. >> we have seen tumbling stock prices, spoig report disappoint. everybody seemed to be optimistic in the end of the year now not so much. >> printing huge amounts of money so there's an artificial

ocean of liquidity. look out the window and you'll see all this money floating around. that's why everybody was having so much fun in the financial community. now the ocean is starting to dry up, and people are saying, wait a minute, look at those rocks, things aren't as good as we thought they would be. >> you say it's going to end badly? >> it's going to end very badly. when you take the artificial liquidity away, what's going to be left? q3 1, q3 2, q -- qe 1, qe 2, qe. >> now we have less than 59% of americans employed and everyone seems to think that's going to be dropping. what are the long term consequences of that? >> antonio, america is down in the largest debt situation in the world.

we've driven up huge debt, but nothing for our competitiveness with the rest of the world. this is going to end up with big consequences for you and me and everybody else in the world. >> what do we have to do? >> america has to taxing consumption, this gigantic problem this america, many problems we have got to change. >> we have this great inequality that everybody is talking about, when you talk about net worth it is even worse than the income differentials, when you do that stop taxing investment income and stuff like that won't you create an even bigger spread? >> that may or may not be, that's not the reason we're not competitive anymore, there are many histories, india 300 years ago, japan, i mean that's not problem. the problem is we have got all these constraints and this huge debt which are holding us back.

>> so how do we get growth going? because now it seems that people are beginning to agree with you that instead of this increase in the growth rate that a lot of people are expecting premium are now sort of backing down on their expectations. >> the reason the expectation is there because the government said listen we just print all this money, build this debt, you know antonio it's astonishing to me you had grown ups saying, the solution the too much debt or too much consumption is more debt. they actually said that, borrow more money and we'll be okay. >> with an economy as precarious as it is, doesn't it need money to keep it going? >> not artificial money. they hired more bureaucrats. that's not solving our problems. we need to build something to sell to somebody else, we need to be more productive. not bureaucrats and artificial

solutions. asian companies that have huge balance of surplus, three are not taxing savings and investing, they don't have an education steacial that is hopeless, they have an education system that teaching people reading write and arithmetic for instance. >> the asian economy have tawld stalled. >> they have had successes, they are for once doing the right thing, cool off inflation, they're trying ocool off a property bubble, they're doing the right thing but everybody makes mistakes. america became the most successful country in the 20th century. but in the 19th century we had some horrible problems before we ggot to it. civil war, no rule of law, we were a disaster. >> talk about depression, you don't, seems to be one of the bright responds of if economy, the inflation has stayed low.

>> you believe the government don't you? >> no, i'm just -- >> don't believe any government, china, germany, america. you probably don't shop. your mother does your shopping. >> you put taxi cab rates, inflation has certainly hurt that. >> you know what's happened to stamp? >> look at something you can measure you'll see the prices, now the government says prices aren't up. people say all the time, where does the government shop? i want to shop where they do, if they say prices aren't up. >> you've moved to singapore seven year ag years ago, which e kind of on the cusp of the east asia explosion, you could have predicted that yourself. what again, you've mentioned not hiring bureaucrats, you've mentioned better education systems. what else are the singapores and

chinas and south koreas of the world doing? >> they have saved hugely, they don't have huge bureaucracies, they discipline their children, not just educate them, they discipline their children for god's sakes. >> we'll have someone on the next segment -- >> that the extremely hard. >> moving to sing singapore andu write about coming to the u.s. is coming to a third world country, which most people would think what, singapore used to be a third world country now the u.s -- >> it did. you get in jfk, you go to a third world highway to a third world five star hotel. if you go to singapore, you're stunned at the airport, not just the airport, hong kong, singapore, many places in asia. >> we are not paying enough

substantiation to this explosion in asian? >> we barely know it's happened. when you moved people set oh are you nuts? are you moving to china? i say singapore is not china, most people can't find china on a map. i love america, i pay taxes here, i vote here. i wish i could do more things. >> it's great to have you here and i hope people are listening. >> i doubt it. i doubt if they are. >> many thoughtful suggestions in your books and your writings. jim rogers, street smarts, adventures on the roads and in the markets, is on bookshelves now. now something we've been following, pussy riot, two punk rockers, who ver imprisoned in russia, released in december and

in new york now for an amnesty international event, janet tavoni had a chance to talk to them. what did you ask them? >> a lot of americans are wondering is it safe for gay athletes fans tourists for the u.s. and other countries to attend the sochi olympics? >> that is not something that we can guarantee. what our government has been doing lately has been inciting hatred to the lgbt community. unfortunately in these cases we see law enforcement standing idly by. >> unfortunately, antonio their archenemy is russian president vladimir putin, i asked if they had something to say to them what would it be? i also asked their time in prison how has it inspired the work that they are doing right now? >> translator: we want to say to him to leave. we can be indifferent to things

that are going on in the prison which is why right now we are aiming to create a human rights organization called dona fla, observing the human rights situation in russian prisons. >> amazing what these people have been through. thank you jana. >> coming up. even suggesting that racist, tiger mom amy twa is up next. and hermella aregawi, what's trending? >> do girls learn better when there are no boys in the classroom, the answer coming up. tweet to us at a.j. "consider this." or leave a comment on our

facebook page.

>> how do some groups do much better than others when achieving the american dream? a controversial new book, what it describes as the triple

package and certain traits explain why cultural groups rise and fall in america. mormons, juice, asian, nigerian and cuban immigrants. according to amy twa, the superiority complex, a deeply internalized belief of your exceptionality. impulse control, the ability to resist temptation, especially the temptation to quit in the face of hardship. i'm joined by amy twa, the author of books including the controversial battle him of the tiger mother. and co-author with her husband jeff bloomen feld.

bloomenfeld. thank you for being with us. >> thanks for having us. >> damaging our economy, our health, our relationship to future generations. how did we get the triple package and how did we lose it? >> in many ways, these are traditional american values. from our founding, america had a sense of exceptionality. , equality, democracy and opportunity. for most of our history, america has the exception aality as beig the underdog. >> as a colony. >> they wanted to show that our system was better, democracy was better than monarchy. they are all about preservation, thrift conditioned savings, hard work. >> how did that change? >> i don't mean that they changed. they dropped out. america is still the same country but i think it's our

success. in the '80s and '90s we actually stopped becoming an underdog. that's partially because of the prosperity. bus also, the fall of the soviet union meant at a we were suddenly left with no rival. just accept yourself in a way, this striving, the need to prove yourself at the individual level and the national level maybe dampened a bit. >> you also wrote that the reality, uncomfortable as it is to talk about it, that some groups are starkly more successful than others. were you concerned as you wrote that that you would be accused of being racist as in fact you have been? >> it never even occurred to me. because it's amazing that you cabinet just state a statistic, that lebanese and iranian americans have this median income, it is in the census. much higher than national

median. if you can't just state a statistic, asian american sat scores are 140 points above the national average, very stark. you can't state that without being accused of stereotyping, how can we address some of these problems? that doesn't mean these groups are better. the book is about the rise and fall of groups and always after groups enjoy a period of success, after one or two generations they go back to the national median. it is much about the product of being insecure, an immigrant that dries that. >> between superiority that you talk about and inadequacies, you can't be superior and feel inadequate at the same time. >> this feeling of exceptionalism and you aren't being thought of, you have a

cuban american background. back in america these were respected people. they come to this country with only $5. they have to be tomato pickers. >> every kind of menial jobs when they were professionals. >> and it's ridiculous, they want to prove themselves, no dogs or cubans allowed. you are going orespect me some day and i'm going owork 20 times as hard as anybody else to gain that respect. >> let's look at the groups that you mentioned, among the groups you said cuban americans, immigrant groups, cuban americans, lebanese americans, you've got also nigerians. most americans or disproportional part of people who came from those places were people of the upper middle class and educated classes. so didn't they come with an advantage and isn't that why

they're doing better? >> you know that's interesting. they may have come with some stature. what did they treat their children? of course advantage is part of the equation. but it's for me it's let's look at the groups that are able somehow in a tough economy or tough situation to still rise, and why can't we learn from them? i want to stress though, there's all this emphasis, do you think these groups are better, absolutely not. these are groups from which we can learn. i've had letters from african americans, not immigrant, it's these three qualities, my mother instilled these three qualities in me, first a deep sense of pride, not as a group but in our

family. we overcame slavery, we have been in a country that's tried to put us down but we have triempled. thitriumphed. we need to work 30 times as hard because we're black. these qualities can be embraced by anybody of any background. >> why are we failing our kids then? in as you are referring to earlier this whole self esteem thing everybody is special whether you have worked hard or not? >> i think there are two aspects that are in decline right now. the combination of two qualities, compensationallity, and generating a need to prove yourself, which is you are fine just the way you are, you should deserve a trophy for just being you, that is not the way to rise. the way to rise is to feel like i need to do better, i am better, you know. and the third part, impulse

control. all of these groups that are succeeding and individuals of any groups that are sctding, they tend to be people that are more disciplined, that can resist temptation better, that instill in their children an ability to focus. i feel like saying, are you saying they are better? no. we should try to learn, what are these guys doing that is different and maybe we can all do a little better. >> you also say that a simple existence may be the most initial of all, but rarely those afflicted with the triple package. that has got to worry you because if you are saying that it may not work, despite all of your success, you may not be able to succeed in the most basic of ways and you refer to being afflicted with the triple package. >> she thinks our group is better and all she thinks is

material success. i see this as an honest way of what are the components of success? to be driven that means something is missing and something is pushing you. we want to be honest about that, it doesn't feel good to think, i need to do more, i'm not good enough yet. yet that is part of what drives so many people. the book doesn't sugar coat. success is not happiness and also, success is not the same thing as a well lived life. there are so many important things other than just getting a high income. that is big picture of the book. >> thanks for coming in. the book is the triple package, how three unlike reply traits describe the rise and fall of cultural america. the congressional budget off has reignited the debate of the economic impact of the president's signature health care law and whether jobs will be lost because of it.

jonathan combs, author of the book sick, jonathan, always good to have you on the show. the study shows the obamacare could reduce workers by 2 million workers actually, two and a half million by 2024. that doesn't mean we're going to lose 2 million jobs. >> that's correct. we have a case of the republican party clearly misrepresenting the facts and a big part of the media falling for it. here is what the congressional budget office said, obamacare, the affordable care act, creates new insurance options for peep. used to be if you wanted to get insurance coverage, steady stable affordable coverage the only way to do it was to go work full time at a large company. so a lot of people do that. now along comes obamacare and people have no options, they can go to these marketplace is and choose their own insurance and

if they don't make a lot of money they can get financial assistance to buy it. some people can look at these options and say gee, i don't have to work at this and people are going to choose to work less and if you add up all the hours that people will choose to work less it will be roughly the equivalent of 2.5 million full time jobs. but again it's people choosing to work less not people being laid off or being denied jobs. >> or choosing to retire early because they can get money on their own if they choose to do that. if the economy loses the equivalent of those 2.5 million jobs over the next ten years is the economic impact not the same? >> so if you talked to economists they would tell you this story has two sides to it. let's take example of someone who's 62 years old, wants to

retire early but can't, because they know if they did they would not be able to buy insurance because they are older and in the old system they would have some kind of preexisting condition and now because of obamacare they can get insurance. and the cons are great, someone else can take that job and this person is maximizing their welfare, that's a good thing. maybe you have a working spouse and say, you know what, i can work a few more hours and spend some time home with my kids. that's a good thing. the down side is i talked before you get financial assistance to help you buy insurance. but the more money you make the less assistance you get. saying if you make $20,000 you need more than if you make $4,000 a year. that reduces your incentive to work a little more an economist would say, that's not so good. in general when you look at the numbers here this is not a big

effect on the economy at all. >> really? but the cbo does talk about a net loss of that equivalent of that 2 and a half million jobs. aren't you talking about a lower tax base, lower contributions to social security and medicare, if people are dialing back their hours at work and falling into subsidies does it mean the rest of us are in effect subsidizing people who want to work less? >> so there's a bunch -- as is nonthese things a bunch of differently things going on at the same time. economists would say, if people are doing what they want to do, if they're acting in what they consider the best choices for themselves that's good for them and good for society as a whole. in addition to that, there is something called job lock. and this was an old feature we all knew about of the old system. let's say you had a great idea to start a new computer company, it would revolutionize the

country and create a lot of jobs but you're afraid to leave your job because you can't get health insurance on your own. obamacare says you can do that, it unleashes entrepreneurship, there are a lot of different ways in which health care reform will improve the economy. if you break down the numbers in the cvo report, the affect on growth is really tiny, it's just not a big deal. >> now, one thing that is clearly good in this cvo report for obamacare, that estimates show that obamacare is going to provide greater savings than was originally predicted. but on the other hand, is this still a big political hit for democrats, for obamacare and its supporters? because even fairly liberal economists like dana millbank is saying, obamacare is being undermined with its thus being the cbo.

>> health care is complicated. this is too complex problem and the health care law is a complicated law. if you want to explain it honestly it's going to take time. and when you are fighting against opponents who are willing to be dishonest, and who are willing to just you know use quick sound bites, it's not going to be affair fight. so pretty much any piece of news can be bat news regardless of what it really said. i read the cbo report and thought overall it was good news for obamacare. the opponents were able to misrepresent what it said and the media most reply went along with it. >> all right, it's a difficult topic and we will stay on top of it and always glad to have you on the show jonathan. glad to have you here. time to check what's happening on social yeet. back to hermella. >> no benefits between all boy or all girl schools.

184 studies previously done on this issue and fown consistent results. those who attended single sex schools weren't any better when it came to self esteem when it comes to science technology engineering and math. otherwise known as stem classes. separating the kids by gender would make it better. jen hyde, professor of women's studies and co-author says the study doesn't back that claim. she says quote it's just a meaningless comparison, parents education and the family income. robby isn't convinced she says wait five minutes and education quote unquote experts will change their minds. jane maria says it needs to be a choice. i chose a women's college and it

was my first safe space away from male hegemony. it doesn't necessarily speak tot benefits of single sex education in private schools. >> many people have strong opinions, i suspect this will cause, controversy. hermella, thank you. could a robot take your job, in many cultures, the future is now.

>> should you be worried that a robot will take your job? well, you probably should be, because it's already happening. a recent study found nearly 50% of american jobs could be automated in the next 20 years. so what jobs are at risk? earlier i had a chance to speak with eric brynjoffsson, co-author of the second machine age, work progress and prosperity in a time of brilliant technologies. you write that historically,

advances have destroyed many jobs but at the same time created many mors. the 1990s in what you called the great decoupling. >> that's right. all throughout history technology has been changing the nature of jobs. the first machine age, the industrial revolution when agriculture became mechanized. recently those trends have dees coupled a bit. andrew mcafee and i call it the great decoupling. gdp growth, we're at record levels of all those numbers however employment has stagnated as has median wages. that's not something we have seen in the earlier elast. >> the recent automation of the

past couple of decades have played a role in a lot of this income inequality that's being talked about in this arena? >> absolutely. there's changes in tax policy and culture but technology we see as the biggest single driver and what's more, technology is accelerating so there are going to be even bigger effects in the coming decades. >> in the book you talk about the fact that robots are doing more and more jobs that people used to be thought of as the only ones who could do them. we look at amazon and other businesses that have these incredibly automated warehouses where you barely see a human being here, baxter the robot, rethinking robots that has all sorts of human like abilities. we could go on and on and on with some of these advances. the question is what's next and how much more replacement of humans are we going to see? >> well no one knows for sure

exactly how the technology is going to play out. it's certainly advancing on a lot of fronts it hadn't before. what we have seen so far is a lot of routine jobs both routine physical jobs and routine information processing jobs have been especially affected. workers if you look at the skill content of jobs, the jobs that have the most routine jobs are the ones that are automated the most. think about a tax preparer or a travel agent. you can take that job, you can codify it into a set of rules, digitize it, replicate it, make not only one copy backup but 100 million copies, and that means there is a lot less demand for a human preparer than it was before. >> list jobs that have a 90% chance of being replaced by machines, they list telemarkers, title examiners, mathematical

technicians, insurance underwriters, cargo, new account clerks, all sorts of these things that those jobs would go away. but health care workers police, firemen management positions would likely be safe. do you agree with that? what industries do you think are going to be most impacted? >> broadly speaking, that list that you just described is already trending in that way. a lot of those routine information processes tasks are the ones that are being automated and humans still have a big advantage in other areas. creativity is something that machines haven't been able to do very well, entrepreneurship, motivating people, caring for people just you know a caring touch from a nurse, or somebody -- a care taker. a salesperson or motivating people or negotiating. those are all categories that, so far, we haven't seen machines really able to master. >> and if you look at all these

predictions though, it does seem that the ones who are going osuffer the most are actually the middle skilled, sort of middle workers, not the higher end or the lower end. >> well, in the past couple decades that's exactly what happened, there's been kind of a polarization that a lot of the middle school jobs have been especially subject to automation, that involve a lot of high end skills entrepreneurship starting things artistic, those have done relatively well, interestingly, the ones that aren't paid well, physical work, whether it's a janitor or hairdresser,-m aren't good with the basic mobility and dexterity that we take for granted as humans or for that matter that a five-year-old can often do, picking up a dime isn't something that a robot can do very easily. >> on the positive thing, ibm's

watson from winning general plan iwin from winningjeopardy, it's, million diagnoses, treatment, it's an example of how these advances can really improve our lives. >> absolutely. andrew mcafee and i talk about in the book with the bounty that comes with automation, longer lives, better health care. because of watson going omedical school and learning how to do medical diagnosis is part of that bounty. already there are technologies using big data scanning through lots and lots of images that are able to identify cancer better than some of the best diagnosticians in the world and that is leading to lives being saved. so the result is we'll all benefit from that kind of bounty and those kinds of innovations. the watson is helping in not

only investment baking advice, call centers and a whole lot of other describes as well. >> in your book, you are an optimist, the title of it, that something goodwill come out, we're going to see a second machine age which will be comparable to the first machine age which is the industrial revolution. >> the first machine age was ultimately a revolution. the mindful part, the mindful, we don't think there's a single inevitable future, whether it's a utopian one or a distoapan one where the wealth is terribly concentrated, there are multiple futures that are possible. how we invest in education, our policy choices, our own choices as individuals, how we organize ourselves then we can steer ourselves towards some of those better outcomes.

nothing is inevitable. the reason we wrote the book is to get people thinking about these different issues. >> the book is in a time of brilliant technologies. eric brynjoffsson, thank you for coming on. >> thank you. >> we'll bring you some of the strangest sports in the world next. n this this

this al jazeera america gives you the total news experience anytime, anywhere. more on every screen. digital, mobile, social. visit aljazeera.com. follow @ajam on twitter. and like aljazeera america on facebook for more stories, more access, more conversations. so you don't just stay on top of the news, go deeper and get more perspectives on every issue. al jazeera america.

>> today's data dive, takes a look at the most bizarre sports in the world. the annua 1576 stairs, the winns take about ten minutes but the run is tame compared to truly weird sporting events around the world. and we're not just talking about hotdog eating contests, they're pretty tame when it compares chess boxing. brains and brawn. one round involves four minutes of chess, fold by two minutes of

boxing. it's billion huge on social media and youtube. another nutty event is the annual wife carrying competition, that's been a finnish competition since 1972. there's a division for senior are citizens. wales holds the bog contest are every year. isn't the point of snorkeling being aible to see underwater? sky diving ironing contest. you skydive and you iron. there are a few leagues dedicated to the competition. wouldn't the free fall wrinkle the clothes? for some reason, england has a disproportionate number of these contests, gurning, a british tradition for hundreds of years. yes, hundreds of years. for obvious reasons we can't

where show you the video of the running of the nudes, in pamplona, spain, before the running of the bulls, some people say it's more exciting and less dangerous. of course that's depending on the participants. working with his attacker, an incredible tale of forgiveness. next.

>> with al jazeera america. >> from hate to hope.

we continue our look at oscar nominated documentaries, facing fear. the lack of it led to an amazing sense of forgiveness. a gay, 17-year-old, crossed paths with, left him for dead in a west hollywood alley. >> punching and kicking me as hard as i could in order to get me down on the ground. >> i saw that he was moving it will something to the effect, what's wrong with you guys, don't you know how to put a boot in? i remember looking into that face. remember looking at that mohawk and those yies. i kicked him in the forehead and he was out. >> in those last moments of looking up and watching these 14

guys with razor blades glued to the front of their boots high-fiving each other and dprachting each other, they believed with everything that was in them they had accomplished the goal of killing that kid in the alley who had never spoken to them, never said anything to them. the words and what i saw were far more painful throughout my life than the boots and the blades. >> 25 years later, the victim and his attacker met again. matthew boger and tim saul join us in los angeles and oscar, joins us in l.a., facing fear, a program that shows the other oscar nominated short subject. now, it's great to have you with us. matthew, your childhood determined this. your mother kicked you out of the house at 13 because you were

gay. determined where you went with life, you developed racial hatred after your brother was shot by an africa american. tell me how you got othe museum of tolerance where you ended up meeting matthew again. >> to short answer, i did get off the streets at the age of 13 and a half. i ended up having a 22 year successful career in los angeles. it was after the death of matthew shepherd that affected me, i kind of realized i hadn't tied too much of his story to mine at the time, but basically i could sit to myself and say i could sit back and do nothing, but make a difference. it was never my intent to manage the museum, i went there to volunteer my time. but about six months into it it was that powerful and i dedicated my life to continuing

to live there. >> and tim it took your little son saying a racial slur to wake up where your life was and you also end up at the museum of tolerance and you melt matthew. you tell me about that meeting. >> i had been there at the museum of tolerance about five years before matthew coming on scene. we had stepped out and credit talked to a school group and during our discussion we started talking about our pasts, where we had grown up and where we used to hang out and there was a specific hamburger stand, hotdog stand that we used to hang out at. the punk rockers used to hang out there in the late '70s, early 1980s, and the growing gay population also used to hang out there. the specific evening was very, very violent. and of course, it was something

that i had remembered, we were discussing where we had grown up i said hey have you ever heard of this place? and matthew had discussed you know hanging out there and i had told him that i quit hanging out there because of one night that was very violent. after i said that there was a lot of questions. a whole bunch of questions. and we both sort of figured out that we had both met in the past. which was a very awkward moment i think for both of us. >> i know, i would imagine. and jason what makes the story even more remarkable in a way is it wasn't just that they forgave each other immediately. not that matthew had anything to forgive. but forgiveness didn't come easy. they had are issues to deal with. >> that was the big motivation for the film, to explore this

process of forgiveness that the two had to go through. it is not cut and dry, not an easy thing for them, both had personal issues they were struggling with both matthew and tim. it took a lot, not naturally wanting to be around each other from the get go and started to do this presentation and we started to examine where they are now which is in a good place but there was a lot that went into that and our goal was to really examine that. >> talking about it, matthew it's difficult to imagine forgiving someone who almost killed you. how long did it take and how did you get to that place? >> i took a few years. i want to preface that forgiveness is an ongoing journey. i think that part of our journey is complete. it took a few years. it took a lot of -- it started wanting to know why they had

chosen me, why those things happened. but part of the process was tim's willingness to be open and honest and share the details of that night which helped me in some way to move forward and past it to a point where i could forgive tim completely. an you know during the presentations that we do together, also helped that process because we work together extensively. so i think unlike most people i was in a unique situation where i could be around what once was my perpetrator and worked through the issues we worked with singlely and together -- achieving mine the tim and tim to myself . >> you had to deal with forgiving your younger self to be able to move along. >> it was probably one of the hardest things i've ever done. usually when you think of consequences you talk about going to jail, people not liking you, something like that. but yeah, did i deal with a lot

of guilt because matthew was you know basically a representative of a lot of the -- at least the way i looked at it and the way i processed it was that he was the symbol of you know all my past misdeeds and people that i've hurt in my life. so it was very, very difficult. you know, he would ask for example in the audience, especially young people you know, matthew's forgiven you, perhaps god has forgiven you, but have you forgiven yourself, hatred and internal things started to come to the forefront and it was very difficult. >> you have become friends and support each other. and jason they lecture together and try to bring their connection to people. what makes it so connect together? >> when you hear their story, especially when you hear their

story firsthand is such a remarkable story. anyone who can hear it is relates, fortunately not all of us have gone through such a horrific situation that they have gone through, they can present it to their own lives. that was the goir goal of our s, whether it be a small dispute with a friend or family member and the story has touched a lot of people. we've shown the film around the world and people are really racketing to it and wanting to talk and open up a discussion about compassion and love and forgiveness. >> jason i wish you good luck at the oscars and matthew and tim, i wish you luck in getting your message out there. facing fear, the oscar nominat

nominated. the show may be over but the conversation continues. we'll see you next time. ... tonight, the cost of america's extreme weather. the lynching, perhaps the most disturbing images yet from the central african republic. soldiers at a ceremony for unity turn against one man. statute of limit assess. the teacher