i'm teeny harris, inside story is next, if you would like the latest on any of our stories we encourage you to head on over to our website. al jazeera,.com. the constitution specifically forbids the use of cruel and unusual punishment of prisoners at the hands of governments. but when the state sets out to kill a prisoner, how should it be done? the twenty-first century death penalty is the inside story.

carrying out two sentence gets complicated. in the decades since the death penalty was reinstated the u.s. has largely moved away from gas chambers, shootings, and electrocution. in most cases the convict is strapped to a gurney and purposely fatal combination of chemicals is introduced to the bloodstream. until the convict is dead. that's where the bill of rights come in. the 8th amendment says excessive bail should not be required nor excessive fines imposed nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. though the intention is to end up with a dead prisoner, how do we police the fine line between an allowable death, and a death including something closer to torture.

the state of texas executed susanne basso wednesday. she was only the 14th woman to be executed in the united states since the death penalty was reinstated in the 1976. witnesses say she made no final statement but smiled at two friends watching through the window, mouthed a brief word, then nodded. texas again use add relatively new protocol for the execution, involving just assiege drug the anesthetic. after the drug was administered she began to snore, rothers say it took 11 minutes to die. despite her apparently quiet death, there's a growing concern among opponents of the death penalty and the lawyers who advocate for the condemned that states are increasingly turning to questionable methods, and untried drug protocol some see as cruel and unusual punishment. take for example the execution last month of dennis maguire in ohio. maguire was sentenced the r the 1989 rape and

killing of a pregnant woman. for the first time anywhere in the united states, a two drug protocol was used, involving the sedative and the painkiller. after the drugs were injected maguire according to witnesses wheezed, coughs and strains against the restraints. he colleged his fists and appears to be sucking for air. it took more than 20 minutes for him to die. the day after their fathers execution, the maguire family gathered to announce a lawsuit. >> i want to stop the death penalty in ohio. i don't think any family should deal with what we have dealt with. over the last couple of days. i don't think anybody deserves that. >> families or my dad. anybody on death row, nobody deserves to go through that. >> maguire's son spoke exclusively with al jazeera america tonight. >> i believe that my dad

shouldn't have been an experiment. i believe they shouldn't have experimented with anybody, let alone my father. >> capital punishment is legal in 32 states in the u.s. where there are more than 3,000 inmates awaiting execution. and in the latest gallup poll, a majority of americans 60% still support the death penalty, a 40 year low with support decline from the heights of 1994. since the execution, louisiana stayed the execution of christopher the death penalty is now on hold in a number of states. major european drug makers stopped shipping to american prisons because of they intended use. the states have had to reformulate their drug recipes.

new and untested combinations of drugs have raised questions about inmates right to be spared cruel and unusual punishment. now some are reconsidering a return to older execution methods including the electric chair, the gas chamber, and the firing squad. judging us now from columbus ohio is father lawrence hummer. he is a catholic pastor from ohio who also does prison ministry. father, watched the execution of dennis maguire, thank you for being with us on inside story today. how did you come to be at the execution, and was it the first time? >> the first time i witnessed an execution, yes. this is the second prisoner i have been with who was executed in the death house at luke callville ohio. >> can you tell us what

you saw after the procedure began? >> the procedure began at 10:27 with the prisoner lying in a crews form position on a gurney. after struggling to get a needle into his arm, to his right arm, they went to his left arm. at 10:27 according to a signal that is given by the warden, the drugs they administer began to enter his arm. he rose up briefly, to say goodbye to his children, and say he loved them, and then he layed back down quietly, his stomach cavity began to fill up at 10:31, as though he had some sort of hernia. and from 10:33 until 10:47, as you were until 10:44, he began to audibly gasp for air. we can hear through this window.

kind of choking sound, that went on until 10:44. and at that point, there was no more automobile sound. a technician came in to try to take -- presumably to feigned his vital sounds that lasted until he was declared dead at 10:53. >> if the intention is to take away a manias life, how should it be done differently? what was wrong with the way dennis maguire left this world? >> i was given to believe it took a five minute procedure, with previous protocols. this one lasting 27 -- 26 minutes. with audible gasping. comparing to putting a pillow case over his head and cloaking him to

death, my argument is the whole death penalty, not just this individual execution. >> but for now, it's approved by supreme court, and like voters across the wrights, the people of the state of ohio, approve of the ultimate sanction. in what way could it change? it can change very quickly if judges, legislators and governors of states were either required to be there or required to start the procedure by hitting a button that sent these chemicals into these people they killed. you maintain if people had to face the consequences of the judgements they make personally, they may not be so quick to make those judgements in. >> i do make that argument, yes. >> and what would you want people to know about what you saw that day maybe someone who is watching this program who

considered themselves a support european union of the death penalty? >> the natural human inclination is to preserve life. in that rooming, i felt trapped. a fellow human being was dying. no matter what heed ha done himself, the natural inclination is to try to help him, and i was unable to. gather with the room full of people watching this whole horrible saga unfold. and thing any, including his own children. and the survivors or the victims witnesses themselves, makes one wonder is that not cruel and unusual punishment itself? to inflict upon the survivors. >> if i understand you, you are suggesting this is out of sight out of mind aspect to all of this? that society is at peace with the death penalty

because they don't have to see it carried out? it certainly seems that way to me, yes. >> well, father, thank you for joining us. we will take a short break, and when we return, we will be joined by a panel of guest as state that continues to impose the ultimate sanction on people convicted of heinous crimes. you are watching inside story. stay with us.

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advocate, we should not abolish the death penalty. because i think there are certain few kyles i do not advocate widespread use of the death penalty, but i maintain there are certain few crimes the which are the vast majority of americans and

certainly the vast majority of coloradoians would conclude that life in prison is not an adequate response. let me give you some examples. we have a guy facing first degree murder charges. he orchestrated from behind bars, in jail, the murder of witnesses against him. if you don't get a death penalty, he has no greater consequence has he nod done so. you have a scenario where an inmate serving life in prison, kill as correctional officer, is it adequate response to take away his television prief limbs but no other consequence because he is already serving life in prison. >> i think the vast majority of people would say no, we have to have a lot of executions but i do think we have to keep it on the books and i have advocated this, for

those type of scenarios, for the timothy mcvey oklahoma city bombing type, where most people would conclude that simply putting him in life in prison for life, is not an adequate setal response. >> has it been made complicate to impose the ultimate sanction when you have supreme court emergency hearings, stays, moratoriums, as states try to figure out how to execute patients, inmates, when they can't get the right drugs or they have unproven protocols? has it made it more of a challenge for states that maintain the death penalty? >> sure, it is a challenge. this should not be something that's done lightly or easily. i don't mind the tremendous anti-death penalty efforts that are made by lawyers, i mean that's all part of the system. i will tell you that a lot of what is going on with the drug protocols right now has to do with the effectiveness that

the anti-death penalty forces have had. in reducing the supply, helping to reduce the supply of certain types of drugs. already, there are all kind of protocols we could use. some states still retain -- i think utah still does. we could have firing squads whatever. i do think it is appropriate to find a type of protocol that the public is most comfortable with. but these are decisions that need to be made by the people. despite the fact that like in a poll that came out yesterday, 66% of coloradoians favor retaining a death penalty on the books. only 29% oppose.

this is a decision really that the people of the state should make in my decision. >> let's turn to ohio where we heard earlier, representative antonio, i am guessing that if we took a poll of ho ho yangs we would still find majority that approve, why are you trying to ale boish in your state? >> i think we have seen with this most recent case, and what and then the discussion afterwards, yes, you can find people on both sides of the issue. but i don't think that's the point. i think the point is as a society we should be evolving. and to me part of our evolution towards a more just society includes eliminating the death penalty -- the use of the death penalty.

i think the maguire post -- it still is to execute someone in a constitution nally humane wray. so while there may be public sentiments in it's interesting. shows that 61% of voting americans favor some other alternative to the death penalty and murder cases. so clearly there's a lot of discussion that needs to be had do you think it crossed the line into cruel and unusual punishment? >> i do. and i say that knowing that there are people that would point out that his crime was also cruel and unusual punishment to his victim, and i also

acknowledge that. but executing dennis maguire does not bring back his victim. it will never change can the lives of the family in terms of -- they will still continue to be without her. at the same time, we have had the state sanction go towards ending the law enforcement of a human being. and i think that is not something that we should be doing. in the state. haven't american jurisdictions been backing away from it? >> yes, there's been a dramatic decline in the use of the death penalty, since the end of the 1990's. there are three hung 13 in the mid 1990's.

there were 100 executes last year, there were 39, so this is a dwindling kind of punishment. not really part of the criminal justice system. it doesn't respond to say murders in our country, it's more of a symbolic thing, and that of course is the question why do something that has just mostly symbolic value. if it is only marginally used. it is for largely confined to one region of the country. as the death penalty is dwindling, it's still sort of an anomaly, the cases are not the worst -- getting the bottom worth of the worst cases. instead you see people on death rom who are mentally ill, people who didn't have good representation, still a lot of injustices. and of course human lives are at stake, and although i said the death

penalty is decreasing still 3,100 people, on death row, and 32 states have it. so i think we are at a cross roads. we are at a decision making is something that we used in the past. still relevant. in the twenty-first century. talking about what happens to the death penalty now, and whether there's an inherent conflict between trying to end a life and end it humanely as a punishment, this is inside story.

welcome back to inside story. there are more than 3,000 inmates on death row in this country. texas has executed susanne basso wednesday. she was the 14th woman executed in the country since the death penalty was reinstated in 1976.

we are continuing our conversation on the death penalty in america, and attorney general, do our legal definitions change over time, that phrase cruel and unusual punishment, reaches out to grab us in the twenty-first century, from 1789, and wondering if the men who wrote and rad fied the constitution would have thought cruel some of the things we do today. >> . >> say certainly when they were talking about that. were not talking about the death penalty as cruel and unusual. it indicated that they were looking at dismemberment for property crimes and things like that as cruel and unusual. while i appreciate supreme court justices coming to the conclusion that society has evolved in such a way that the death penalty is now cruel and unusual, i

think that's a little bit of the legal intelligence imposing their own viewpoints. let's let the society the people decide. whether or not we have evolved to the point where the death penalty is cruel and unusual, and if the people in a particular state want to come to that conclusion, that's fine. i'm just arguing, that in the context of the modern society and the types of crimes we see, mass terrorist killings, the killing of witnesses. there's a societal self-defense element that still exists. and i would be very reluctant to take the death penalty off the books because of these limited types of crimes.

where are really hear fied by the prospect of disproportional punishment. not by executing criminals for things they had done. i think if we want to go back to the under tokers, they are very suspicious of too much government power and believed in a system that could grow and change, and there was room for that, and certainly as a society we don't stick to whatever we were at in 70 teen 89. and i think punishments that were acceptable, and maybe thought necessary, howell do you deal with repeat offenders. but now we have life imprisonment without parole, we keep some of the worst offenders didn't get the death penalty, talk about the unibomber, jared lovener, eric rudolph, who sent a bomb off, so many people don't get the death penalty, if it was really necessary, as the tone general talks about, we'd have thousands of executions.

there's terrible crimes but we don't use it that way, we use it in this random government says you but not you. that's the kind of power that i think our founders would have been very suspicious of. >> how about that. you heard a fellow elected official talk about having a death penalty that's targeted only to the most heinous of crimes, not used willey nilly, and an advocate saying well, we don't really apply it that way. what's going on in ohio and are the people of your state ready to hear a different proposal? what is going oin my state, and actually in my county, and it is one of the top 5 counties to have people on death row, to use the death penalty, disproportionately. often it's used as a way to plea for -- we get some plea barr gains out of it, but the death penalty is where it starts instead of where it finishes.

it has been seen, and shown to be used indiscriminately across racial lines as well. and also with the count of one's economic background, so we have lower income people, as mr. deters pointed out, in terms of that disproportionate use of the death penalty. i believe that we are ready for this discussion and part of it is to educate the general public. that there is more to it. i think paw hummer talks about the fact that once the death penalty is applied that it's -- it hatches in a very very small place, and the rest of the population gets to back away from it. we hear about an extraordinary story. but day-to-day, we have no concept of what is going on. and so i think that these discussions are very important. it's expensive.

it is yule. on the part of the victim's family. they have to relive the crime all over again, and i have heard from victims family whose have told me that. >> we are just about at the end of our time. are you ready to look at in, are there problems with the drugs problems with the appeals, stays from the supreme court, whatever, if it results in fewer exclusions you are okay with it. >> no. i -- i really believe that there is no humane constitutional way to use exclusion. i am for the abolishment of the death penalty in the state of ohio. >> thank you for joining us. thank you attorney general. that brings us to the end of this edition.

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