sochi russia. i'm morgan radford. see you again at 4am eastern. "the stream" is up next. >> with lethal in jection drugs in short supply, plan b can be firing squads, gas chambers or electric chairs.gx >> lisa fletcher is out. we have our digital dj here with

the feed back. we get the most light-hearted topics - first abortion, and now the death penalty. >> all before the weekend. >> this is the third real topic in america, you can't mention it without debate. i am sure the online community is heating up. >> it is. not just about the different methods. we have colin on facebook saying: of course for those of you at home, we want you to be part of the conversation tonight. and we want you to go to the website. if you go to it, you can download the second app for the show.

you can download it on your phone as well. basically, here you can take quizzes, and you can interact with other users and compete with them for points and get behind the scenes looks at the topics that we're covering. so it's a way to interact with our show. and if you can't download it. go to aljazeera.com/ajam stream. >> should knows condemned to death be forced to face the firing squad? the death penalty is legal in 30 states, with literally 3,000 waiting on death row. since 1996, the u.s. has carried out 4,000 executions. it's humane, the majority of people facing capitol punishment. the manufacturers of the judge

say that objections over capital punishment and some are using alternatives. florida used a two-drug cocktail. reports show that after being injected, he gasped and choked and made choke being sounds. it took 26 minutes, the longest in history. >> i want to stop the death penalty in ohio. i don't think that any family should deal with what we dealt with. >> other states are considering using the electric chairs, and gas chambers and firing squads. critics say that it amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. so is it time to reevaluate how people are punished for crimes in america? helping with this is jerry gibbons, horace cooper, former law professor, now with the national center for public policy research,

aaron haynie, an attorney. i want to start with you first, louisiana recently used an execution, drugs to kill dennis mcfire. and some are calling for executions now. and what is the main concern. >> the main concern, and the person who tweeted in earlier hit on it. is there a moral way in an ethical way for the state to execute member? and by and large, whatever method we have tried, we have found there is not. initially, in california, we had executions by gas chamber, and it was found to be unconstitutional and to constoot cruel and unusual punishment. as a result of that, we have turned to lethal injection. there are protocols, but to use like ohio did. two drugs, a protocol that has

not been tested. and what we don't know what's happening when we are executing the person, those go beyond unethical, and it's experimenting on those condemned to die. >> do you think the ingredients in the lethal injection cocktails and who is making them should at least temporarily halt the executions until we found out more? >> i had nothing to do with the legality of the death penalty. it's a constitutional question. it's not a moral or ethical question. it's a question of whether or not the constitution authorses and allows the capital punishment implementation that occurs in most of the states of america. and in fact, while there are restrictions on the implementations, the court has yet to hold that you can't

simply execute a person and then punish them for the crime. i imagine with the present conservative majority on the court, if we were to revisit the gas chamber and some of the older methods, you might see a different posture from the court, but it would be helpful, i think, to bring it to the court and allow them to ratify that states do have this authority. and it's constitutional. and if that's what the public wants, that's what we should they should get. >> you talk about the moral aspect. and jerry, you were an executioner for 40 years, and you oversaw 32 of them, specifically, 30 by leath an injection, and 25 by execution. and is this indeed a moral question some. >> well, i would say i haven't found a humane way to kill people. i was on the other end. and i participated in this.

and i would say death by electrocution is rough. you got 2500 to 3,000 volts going through a human body. and just a guy weighing 190 pounds at the most, put that much electricity going through a human body, it's going to cook them inside. and whatever electric goes in, it has to come out and when it comes out, 100% of the guys executed had burn marks. >> leath an injection, people sigh that's more humane, and what's your take on it? >> when i witnessed some lethal injections in texas, the guy was singing, and he completed the song before he was pronounced dead. and the chemicals kicked in, and on the other hand, when you push in the syringe, i felt more

attached personally. i disagreed with it, and i told them that. >> is that the reason why you oversaw 62 executions, and now recently, the virginia senate testifying against capital punish: is that your personal statement that you had? is that what made you shift? >> well, when a guy comes on death row, and nine days from being executed, it puts some doubt in the 62 people that i killed. and i always said to myself, i never would want to execute an innocent person, because that makes me on the same level as the condemned person who took abinnocent life. so should they execute me for taking an innocent life if i executed an innocent person? and what's that made me chaste because when that one guy, earl washington, came through the death house, and then he was

exonerated, it put some doubt in my mind. >> speaking of doubt, a lot of our community is expressing doubt and also outrage. >> putting out the question of whether some states are doing away with th death penalty altogether. and some are considering bringing back the firing squad. only a matter of time before barbaric things are used: hor as, do you think it matters how we actually put people to death? is that something that actually matters. >> well, i think that the constitution does provide some parameters, but they're pretty

broad much if the question is that some individuals responsible are assigned to the task of handling the execution end up finding that that experience is harmful to them, we could automate the process. there are a significant number of techniques that could be undertaken that would require six weeks out that there be no human interaction in the process. but here's the point. the point is that the nature of the crimes that these individuals have been found guilty of, it is justifiable and constitutional for the society to agree that they should pay the ultimate price and receive the ultimate penalty. >> aaron, you mentioned cruel and unusual in the beginning, and you heard what horace had to say. are we looking at electrocution, the two drug cocktail in ohio? wow say this crosses the line

and it becomes cruel and unusual. >> absolutely. having the government experiment on people who some of the time have done heinous things, so if we're talking about people who aren't innocent. they are guilty, and they are still in fact people. so the idea of what we need to do is simply remove any human interaction gets behind the idea of the death penalty, which is we are dehumanizing human beings in order to do this. do we want to be a society that stoops to the level of criminals, that does to criminals precisely the act in abhorrent? >> before we go to break, omar. >> some more comments on facebook:

>> you can hashtag at ajam stream. he didn't commit the crime, but lost over a decade doing time. this is the first to be exonerated.

>> i'm joie chen, i'm the host of america tonight, we're revolutionary because we're going back to doing best of storytelling. we have an ouportunity to really reach out and really talk to voices that we haven't heard before... i think al jazeera america is a watershed moment for american journalism >> 2002 this was d.n.a. evidence

matching another man. he was arrested. . >> i'm the only female in the united states exonerated from death row. they destroyed my life. i live in the same town. people were saying, "that's that girl that killed her baby", i couldn't get a job. it's hard for me. >> we are talking about death row inmates, cleared because of d.n.a. testing. >> the first person exonerated joins us now. kirk, at the age of 23 you were convicted for the killing and assault of a 9-year-old girl. you were imprisoned for eight years, two of which were spent on death row. eyewitness testimony landed you

on death row. how important is it for america to get the process right? >> well, it's very important. we had 143 individuals who have been convicted of crimes they didn't commit. we sit here and talk about how we'll execute a person. we think about why we should, and there has been so many different people who have been exonerated, you can't climb over the innocent to get to the guilty. this thing was based on an eyewitness testimony of a person who was 6 foot five, curly blond hair, bushy moustache, and skinny. my hair was as red as a fire plug. we can't get it wrong. we can't execute people when we do. if 143 aircraft fell from the united airlines in the last 30 or 40 years, we would have none

of them planes in the air. >> kirk, we are talking about the debate of using lethal injection, it took 26 minutes to kill dennis maguire. as a person that sat on death row. should the executions be halted until we have transparency. >> they should be halted period. there's no way an execution should take place in america with the evidence. and this is factual evidence, of innocent people who have been convicted and sentences to death row. we can't do this. i understand that the public wants retribution. it's not what this is about. don't climb over me to kill an innocent experience. >> the prosecutors are looking for a death sentence for the boston bomber.

the feds argue: >> reaction to the decision is mixed. the mother of a victim was opposed to the death penalty and is reconsidering her position. a poll found 57% of those surveyed favoured a sentence of life in prison. what is the community saying? >> we have a comment from henry who says: we put out the question whether families of victims should have a say and they say: >> if you have a family that essentially has lost someone to some vicious crime, whether there was sexual abuse or torture, before death, and they tell you that they cannot find

peace unless the person who committed the crime is no more, how do you argue back with that? what do you say with them? >> sure. i think taking into consideration the family of the victims feelings is important. we have a process to do that in court called victim impact. at the end of the day we don't have vig lanty justice. there's a number of factors that contribute to a killing. societal factors, vulnerability factors. human error, prejudice, all kinds of things. part of the aim of the justice system is to remove some of the emotion, remove some of the bias, remove some of that desire to fill the emotional void left by losing a loved one and come in and think about what is right. as a government, and as a society, what should we be doing. >> bob and colorado is fighting to keep the state from executing

his son's killer. some in boston believe the suspect behind the bombing shouldn't be executed and should get life in prison. should the views of family members be considered when deciding to seek capital punishment. >> certainly they should be, but we don't have a vigilante system. we don't say whatever the individuals decide ought to be the consequence. these two brother plotted, schemed and planned to murder as many people as possible. we'll have a trial. he'll be allowed to make the argument about why he did what he did and argue that he shouldn't get the maximum punishment. after all of that evidence goes forward, he absolutely is likely to be found guilty and likely to be determined to be the next

federal executed prisoner. that is a process that would immediately lead to a series of appeals, but once that process is completed, i'm going to be satisfied that the penalty assessed is one that is just. >> kirk, you are in a unique position. how did the victim's family respond to your conviction and what did they say upon hearing you were innocent of the crime? >> in the beginning everyone wanted me to die. the prosecutor wanted me to die saying "he did it." the police officers, they said, "he did it." the state of maryland thought of me as the most hated man in america. in the end in the final analysis they were dead wrong. and, you know, this bombing suspect in boston - you know, we haven't had a trial yet.

let's see what they have to say. instead of worrying about how a person should be executed, we should worry about people who haven't done a thing wrong. we putting people in prison who are incident as the day is long. ray grown, sabrina butler explains it quite clear myself. 143 people. we can no longer have the death penalty in this country. >> how critical is the execution to the healing process of the families? >> i look at kirt's situation and take my position. say kirt was there and he lost his appeals and i executed kirt. get what i'm saying. how would i deal with myself. how would the executioner deal

with themselves to take an incident life. it shows that innocent people are on death row. death will come to all of us. if a hurricane comes through and kills your child. the family can only get mad at god that things like that happen. death will come to all of us. >> before we go break. >> sara on twitter says, "it's expensive and how many innocent people have been killed. also: >> they are referring to cases where people have experienced the pain and don't want it repeated. >> moving on - state's rights for federal mandate. who should despite the future of

the death penalty in america? if you want more interaction check this out. >> tv is no longer one way, with the stream second screen app. share your thought. disagree with a guest - tell us. get exclusive app content. interact with other app users in real time. you can be the third cohost. vote, tweet, record video comments and we'll feature them on air. use the app and driving the discussions on live tv. this puts you in the control room. download it now at aljazeera.com. use it with every live stream.

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>> and follow it no matter where it leads - all the way to you. al jazeera america, take a new look at news. >> welcome back. we're discussing the future of the death penalty in the united states, and we're asking our community, should it be abolished? >> our county is heavily favored in leaving it up to the states. and national politicians would require federal funding and higher taxes:

>> horace, with the few minutes that we have left, the state of maryland spend $200 million on five executions, and some say the economic costs are a reason to push for life in prison. >> first off, the states that have eliminated the death penalty are waiting for a new tax that will come on life sens or extensive sentences, and our system is just as amenable for that, because it's not a perfect system. and we should reinvest in it, and make sure that it's working better, but opponents, generally speaking, opens the concept the but i want to make a quick point. internationally, the mov not as clear as critics of the death penalty. you're seeing it in the uk, france, and poland, a movement. some members of the mps and the eu are push being against

the whole idea that the entire continent ought to be death penalty. >> aaron, we have 2.4 million in prison, and is live in prison the best alternative to the death penalty and if not, what is? >> i think life in prison without the possibility of parole is the best alternative as our system is now. i think that we have tremendous problems in our system, and it is important to litigate those problems, and to draw awareness. we want to have the best system, and a system that has the most chances of rehabilitating people, as well as not convict being innocent people. so to the extent that we can move away from models that focus solely on punishment and get back to models that look at the causes of crime, and how we can deter crime in the future, it's a good thing and absolutely the right direction to be move in. is it enough?

but is it a good start? yes. >> kurt, the final 30 second, how should america move forward? >> we have the death penalty in america, and we have proven it time and time again. the sentence of death has had its day, and it's time to end it. 143 death row survivors in the united states tells me one thing, that the government and the criminal justice system got it dead wrong, and the next time we might execute somebody, it innocent man. >> thank you to all of our guests for this fantastic conversation. thank you for joining us, and thank you as always for our fantastic community and all of your live feedback, until next time, we'll see you online at aljazeera.com/ajam stream.

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