>> hi, i'm lisa fletcher, and you're in "the stream." is it time to reset the conversation about motherhood and success? we ask if feminism and science and pop culture have led women astray. you're digital producer, rang raj is here, to bring your feedback tonight. and it is always surprising to me, the topics that we put out there that get these

unbelievable responses like tonight. >> we're inundated with responses, not just from millennial moms, from women of all ages, women who have decided not to have children and women who are millennials and older. and she gives us the modern mother: and that means hippy. today a daily standard that women have to face that seems to be recurring in the community. >> and a voice that seems to be

there is men. as the ambassador of all men, the pressure is on, raj. nearly one in five women haven't had children by the time their fertile years have passed. and for those who did want to be mothers, messages about fertility may set them up to be let down. >> because there's this expectation that we can get pregnant when we want to get pregnant and we can do it all. be mothers and have our careers, and have families too. there's a disappointment that comes along with that. >> when you decide you want to do it, and you can't, it's intense. >> you start to doubt your choices in life, like should i have not waited so long? >> because it is what it is, and there's no going back. >> as older women try to fight the biological clock, the

average age of first time moms is still young, 25, but while that remains fairly scant const, the pressures have increased from all sides. having kids too early or late and stress that having it all is more facade than fact. so is it time to hit the reset button on the conversation? would squaring up motherhood be successful and independent women? in overnew book, tanya wrote her book, and michelle horton, from her site, early mama.com. michelle had a baby at age 22, and was inspired to write about her experiences of the reality of a stereotype of a young woman. and anyone independent journalist who has decided not to have children, and feels the

societal pressures because of her choices. so thank you for being here, and motherhood, you're judged 23 you're just a mom, and you're judged if you juggle motherhood with a full-time career, and you're judged if you don't have kids. how did women get into such a predicament, we're darned if we do and darned if we don't. >> part of the problem is, in the 70s, women still had to fit into a world that was constructed largely by and for men's needs and men's schedules, so women face the struggle of having to choose between motherhood and career, and i personally feel that's one of the greatest injections that women still hav -- injustices tn still have to make that choice. women were intrinsically

designed, whether they became mothers or not, and what was a great benefit for my generation and the generations after, we could define ourselves with things other than being mothers. but have we done ourselves a disservice by not being able to make decisions with complete information? even today, with all of the biological clock stories holding on for decades, there are still so many conflicting stories out there about motherhood and when we can and can't do it. >> and how have the fantasies affected how people in general view motherhood in america? >> one of the fantasies is we can delay motherhood until we're ready, and if we're not able to have a pregnancy, science will help us. that was the message that happened during my childhood. the first successful ivs

pregnancy happened in 1978. and women felt their reproductive cells were more within their control, but what we didn't realize was that with all of our successes in the workplace, and with advances in healthcare, which unabled us to take better care of ourselves, our eggs were not following, and now, when i look at friends in their 30s, it seems thak too young to have a child. and the discourse has to be reset. >> michelle. 30, 40 years ago, it was normal or even expected that women would have a child in their early 20s, and now you fast forward to 2014, and it can be found upon, and you can be judged. you had a baby when you were 22. talk about what that was like for you in terms of the societal

pressures and stereotypes that you felt. >> first of all, i was living in new york city, where it's extraordinarily unusual to have a kid in your 20s, especially your early 20s, right out of college. i was in -- i had just graduated from college, and i was interning at these prestigious magazines and i was excited about the ambitious path that i was on, if for me, in my early 20s, the narrative that i knew, it used to be normal to have kids in your early 20s, but an educated, smart, young woman, it will cost you to have kids when you're young, so for me, i felt that everything that i had worked toward, i could never accomplish what i wanted to accomplish. as if i was going to be stunted developmentally, and i couldn't make the kind of money he wanted to make, and i felt as if my life was ending at this point.

and that's what i think a lot of young women feel. if they veer off the typical narrative of a young, 20 something woman, your life kind of goes in a direction that's -- you're doomed for a cycle of poverty high. and on the flip side of that, carolina, you are an educated smart woman who chose not to have children, and in that set has it's own set of stereotypes. >> yes, exactly. though women have been doing all of these fantastic things in the last half century, there are these centuries-old expectations of women, if you're going to get married, you are going to have a kid. i got married at the able of 25, which is generally considered a little bit of a young age to get married. and i've now been married for 17 years, and have never had children. so the pressure from people i meet and extended family members

has been this question of why. they look at you either with sadness because you might be barren or might have a medical condition, or there's something psychologically wrong with you, because why wouldn't you want to have a child if you're i a healy woman in a healthy marriage. having children is not something that i want to do. i have lots of nieces and nephews that i adore, and friend's kids that i hang out w. and i'm certainly not against children, but it's not something that my husband and i wanted to do for ourselves. it still raises a lot of questions in people, and especially for women. people don't ask my husband how he feels about not having kids. they assume that he doesn't and they're okay with that decision because he's a man. >> carolene a. speaking of the double standards:

and tannia i want to go to you with this. let's talk about the stereotype that exists, and also the double standard that keeps coming up to for women to have it all. also have the family and the career, and how does that affect the psychology of young women today? >> for most women, they're too busy doing it all to think about having it all. so i feel like it's a term, a phrase that's used so much to describe women and our choices, and i would like to take that phrase and throw it out, so we can talk about things other than having it all. so when it comes to balance, we talk about work life balance so much, but really, true balance

is unattainable and we hope to achieve our moments of balance, and we have to learn to do that. and we have to look at the issues globally. because we live in america, but there are many countries where they have fantasticked out to do things in a more benevolent way and there are others where it's more harsh. so we need to look at a global perspective and look at models that work. we know in america, we have a system that's inherently unfair. when it comes to women in general, and women who delay motherhood and have to fertility treatments, et cetera. carolina made a conscience decision not to have kids and when you look at the sticks, the statistics shows that the number of childless women has doubled in a generation, and now there are nearly one in five who don't have a child by their infertile

years. >> we have to hit a break, and that's important, women not adjourning other women for their choices. how do you bust the myths of motherhood, and are women complicating their own message of where they should be and how they should get there. do you want to interact more with raj and me on "the stream"? check it out. >> tv is no longer the only way for a second screen app. if you want to be oner our guests, tell us, get exclusive content and interact with other users at the same time. you can be our third cohost. record video comments, and we'll feature them on-air. use the app and driver discussions on tv. this literally puts you in the control room. download it now, and use it with every livestream show.

>> i've been married to my husband, pete, perfect for almost 13 year, and we have two children, two boys, 10 and is 1, and a little girl who is 2. we had our boys in 2000 and 2001, and i had a difficult pregnancy both types. and the doctor suggested that it would be best for my health to not go through another pregnancy. >> welcome back, we're talking about the myths of motherhood, the stereotypes, and the unrealistic expectations that women place on themselves and the feminism and science have led women astray. and before the break, we talked about everything being a disservice to women. and i'm wondering, wouldn't it be a healthier message to say, whatever you choose, there has

to be something that you have to give up, and embrace the idea that something has to give, other than thinking that you can make it all work. >> i feel that so much of the problems are because we're constantly pitching ourselves against the expectations and judgments of others and our society. and if we can strip away the guilt that people have between motherhood and career, we can build a more fir society. every woman is different, and every woman makes choices based on a vision that she holds true for herself. we can look at the statistics, and we can see that for instance when we say the number of childless women has doubled in a generation, the truth is about 50% of those women have chosen not to have children. so there are people not having children by chose, and also by circumstance. and we also know that the

majority of women, who are mothers, who work. they are not making that choice between being a stay at home mom and a career, so a lot of women are trying to figure out how to juggle both of those roles, but how can we make that juggle a little bit more fair? and i think some of the ways are by instituting more presently and having more widespread insurance coverage for fraternal health. and also for fertility treatments. one thing that i found when i was doing research, only 15 states mandate coverage for fertility treatments, and i think that's unfair. >> tannia i see you nodding your head. >> i think what tanya brings up, the idea of talking about everything, and the society that supports women in roles as professionals and mothers, and whatever rolls we want to inhabit. u.s. is the only industrialized

nation without a government mandated paid parental leave. i have cousins in south america that get six months paid parental leave to help raise their children and have babies, and to recover. and i think that anybody who has had a baby can tell you that going back to work after two or three weeks is an excruciating process. so it goes beyond expectation, but what can our government do? what can the legislators do? they're very busy talking about abortion, and what can and can not be done if that arena,. >> there are things that the government can do to augment the lives of women having kids, but i want to get back to the idea, michelle, of the expectation, women who choose to do all of these things are going to do it at an a plus level.

that to me seems unsustainable and how do you change that narrative? >> well, i think we all know it, and it's disgusting that we don't have the kind of support from our government or just our community to be able to stay home and take care of your kids. that's not the issue. i want to go back to what tanya said about stripping away guilt. and i think this roots back to judgment. because it does come back to guilt with moms, and i don't think you can ever strip it away. i think that women who are moms have guilt forever, and it's just built in. and i'm a person, i love my job, and i love working, and i never wanted to stop. but i'm still in two years driving to work every morning, and leaving my child with somebody else, whether it's at a day care or with my sister. it's just gut-wrenching, and you can't -- just because you want one thing doesn't mean your heart is not split into a

million different places, and i think we have t to be honest abt that. working moms, it stay at home moms, we're all having these judgments, and it comes from ourselves, our own insecurities, and the guilt we're carrying around. and all of this is in our control to help each other, instead of getting defensive and spewing the judgment right back. >> well, michelle, our community is covering it. tasha just said, modern motherhood:

>> -- women are the least likely to be voluntary free, and i can sort of understand why. and i think it has to do with us being the descend wants over a people who didn't have a say over their own autonomy, but black women are choosing to lead child free lives more. and showing young girls that we do have a choice. >> carolina, speaking about a choice, nearly 20% of american women are now ending their child bearing years without having born a child, compared to 10% in the 1970s, and do you see this trend as more choices, or is it simply a reflection of a double standard and a difficult situation? >> well, i think going back to tanya's point, we don't know exactly why these women are not having children, so i don't want

to make too many assumptions about those steps, but what we are seeing is for example, african-american women, hispanic women, are also seeing higher rates of choosing to remain child-free. and with you think part of that has to do with less ethnicity, and more having to do with education. the more educated women are, the more possibilities they have. the more likely they are to see child rearing, having chirp as a choice, and not a path that they must walk. >> michelle, i see you shaking your head, and we have to take a break. make your comment. >> i was going to say that that's true in some cases, but also in this generation, there's a lot of talk about being ready. and there are a lot of people my age who want to have kids, but they feel like they would be giving everything up, and they're waiting for a specific

time. and that's something that needs to be change. because we need to be honest that it's always scary to have kids, and you never feel like you're ready. >> agreed. >> hang on. we're going to hit the brakes for a second. coming up, moms are going to battle it out against the stereotypes. how social media is helping women claim their individual stories.

>> i have a small business, i'm the president, the ceo, accounting, personnel, inventory, catering, and

custodial. i ham damage control, creative development, strategic planning, and human resources. but i'm committed and passionate about what i do, and i invest everything i've got. and the payoffs are huge. >> welcome back. we're talking about modern day motherhood. for many women, judgment is one of the major decisions they have to have or not have children. and as an anecdote, a group of connecticut women started ct working moms.com, and they published photos like these to push back. back against stereot. and michelle, your hashtag, spread love, not shame, and why is this so important? >> i think its everything.

i think that the judgment we put on one another, i have felt it directed towards me, and also coming from myself. and i get a lot of emails from young moms, who are just newly pregnant, and or going through the new mom phase, and their lack of confidence is startling, and it's tragic, and it doesn't need to be there. and i can see it so clearly, how your own insecurities create more judgment. and if we could just support one another and love one another and acknowledge the fact that just because you walk down a path doesn't mean that you are going to be in the same place, and the blanket assumptions that we throw over people for a circumstance that they're in, and not a certainty, it's damage for women's signing he's, in our ability to make decisions as parents. it really is everything, and it doesn't need to happen, and it

could so easily be mitigated through social media, and through the online communities where we can find people that are like us, and support one another through life. >> well, michelle, speaking of challenges: and. >> and how do we help to enpower those women and those mothers? >> well, i think it's a couple of levels. one, i spoke earlier about the legislative aspect that goes on here, and we live in a society where we talk about moms, and they're the subject of political campaigns, but we don't support them with things like day care

or paid parental leave. and i think especially where working class mothers, that becomes such a huge issue. sometimes there isn't a choice, and they have to go out and work and have the kid. and there are few other outlets in society that support that. and that said, there are also the men, who are half of the equation here, or the partners who are also supporting this. and i think one of the dynamics that we're seeing right now, there are a lot more stay at home dads. i have a couple of good friends that are stay at home dads, and they get judged as well. why are you staying home with the kids. why aren't you out conquering the universe and become a ceo? why would a man choose to do that. well, we all choose the path that's so good for us, but our out is trapped in these models. >> that's a good thought, we all choose the path that's best for us, and that seems to be a great

note to end the program tonight. thank you all, and until next time, raj and i will see you online. >> welcome to aljazeera, and i'm john seigenthaler in new york. 1 million are in the path of a potentially catastrophic storm. the nation divided. good morning op law makers are criticizing their own. >> . >> and a drug ring. ♪ >> and remembering an icon,