>> some great community here.

natasha says . . .

and there are certain consequences that occur as a result of those penalties. i do not believe it is appropriate to sanction private actors if they don't want to hire people who are burglars, rapists, or any other kind of

serious felon, i don't believe it is help to say to the people who are not those kind that they must interact with. it's up to the individual. that individual on a case by case basis can convince people that they have changed. >> what role do you think societal fear plays in creating barriers to excons when they are trying to have a productive life? >> i think it plays a major role. one of the things that i have noticed that when an individual commits a crime they are immediately behumanized and their value is lowered to where society will feel better punishing them. but they also play on the fear that -- i think is within all of us. no one wants to be a victim of crime. no one wants crime in their

neighborhood, so they would use us as an example. and take images of especially african american males, and call for harsher punishments and not restore the rights of returning citizens. >> desmond our community jumped on this topic of dehumanization . . . >> lisa? >> i just want to -- >> something that desmond just touched on. nearly 6 million americans cannot vote because of a current or past felony conviction. after the break, does not having a vote make you more likely to

re-offender. but first check this out . . .

>> al jazzera america presents... documentaries from around the world that inform... >> they were bombarded with shells... >> inspire...

>> we can deal with our conflicts... >> and touch our soles... >> it was my dream to get a high school diploma. >> award winning film makers create create unique perspectives. >> everybody's different here... >> just gotta tell ya, it was just a very magical moment... >> al jazzera america presents... on al jazeera america ♪ it is time to fundamentally reconsider laws that permanently disenfranchise people. these restrictions are not only unnecessary and unjust, they are also counterproductive. by perpetuating the stigma and

isolation imposed on formerly isolated individuals these laws will increase the chances that they will recommit crimes. >> nicole, what do we know lowers the rate of reoffense. >> let me first make a comment about horace's statement earlier. advocates that work on issues like fell len disenfranchisement. our organizations want to make sure that ever american citizen is a law-abiding citizen. we don't want anyone who has committed a crime to not pay their debt to society. and you can ask any think tank that issue and they would all say that.

but once an individual pays his or her debt to society, we want them to be able to reintegrate into their communities. this country was founded on this idea that all men are created equal, that we all have free comes to when we do themes that get those freedoms taken away, we pay that debt, but once we have done that, cow are supposed to have your rights and responsibilities, and tunes given back to you. so when it comes to voting that is at the heart of our democracy. if you give an individual the idea that you cannot take part in the democracy, you are also having a trickle down effect on how that community and their families are impacted. we looked at what it means for individuals once they have their right to vote restored. people will tell you, i feel like i have a voice in this society. your children see that.

your community sees that, and it makes all of the difference in terms of how well you reintegrate into society. so if we want to say we want to stop people from committing crimes, stop people from not being good citizens, let's restore democracy to everyone once they have repaid their debt, and that will go a long way to ensuring we have good citizens that exercise their rights and responsibilities. >> balderdash. [overlapping speakers] >> balderdash. the founders required that 90-plus percent of all felons be hung. it was their thesis that the crimes that merited the felony category was the end. don't wrap the flag around this. this is about a special interest being created. now it turns out another set of

studies and a series of them appear to show that this particular group of people are more interested in the party of big government than they are in the conservative party of small government and republicans, this outrage is about partisanship, not about helping people. now let's talk about what happens to the victims. i believe if we are talking about freedom, people have the ability to walk past the 7-11, they don't need to go inside and shoot anybody, rape anybody, or engage in any of these kinds of reasons, and when we say there should be a reward afterwards, we're implying that somehow you can't exercise that control -- >> scott says. . ..

and desmond, we're all talking about this, but you actually lived it. felons lose a lot of right, the right to own a gun, hold public office, sit on a jury. how did it feel to you to lose your right to vote? >> it relegates me to a second-class citizenship status. and piggybacking on what was said earlier, anyone that takes a position that a felon should not have their rights restored upon release from incarceration, is actually taking a position against their own self interest. 95% of individuals who are

incarcerated are coming home into your community. what do you want that person to face when they are out there? do you want them to not be able to get a job, to be ostracized to not be able to find adequate housing? what do you think will happen there? so in order -- in order for us to really improve our communities or strengthen our communities we immediate to remove these obstacles and allow individuals to reintegrate as quickly as possible. there is no research out there whatsoever, that would indicate that making it tougher for a returning citizen to have their rights restored would actually reduce the recidivism rate. >> just caveat to what desmond shared. there was a study that looked to

barriers to re-entry, and one of the things it talked about was with respect to just employment alone. it really hurts our nation when we make it difficult for the formally incarcerated to get jobs. it talked about our ability to produce products, to ensure we have enough workers to still do the jobs in this country, is significant decreased by the fact that we don't make opportunities available to become part of the work force, so it really does go against the self interests of the country if we make it harder for these individuals who are indeed coming back into the community to reintegrate and become productive members of society. >> do they have to decide whether to support rights or rein-tait grate excons? >> the reintegration of excons as i said is a choice that

individuals make. there is no state or federal law that say wal-mart can't hire excons. what economists tell us is if you require wal-mart to hire those kinds of people, they will go out of their way to find out how to minimize the number of people they can hire, regardless of whether people have demonstrated they are sorry, or ready to reintegrate into society. any time an employment mandate is adopted it creates these effects. we're seeing it with veterans, handicap and if we add ex-cons it would be the same. >> when we come back, we're going to look at innovative responses to getting felons back

on track.

welcome back. we're talking about sensible ways to try to reintegrate ex-cons back into society. and waj i think our community has some creative ideas. >> whole bunch of comments . . .

>> shameless promotion of killer dave's my favorite cinnamon bread hands down. desmond you are tapped into grass root groups that are really changing things. what is happening? >> first of all i think it is shifting the label ex-felon, or ex-con. we refer to them as returning citizens, and research as shown when you label somebody ex-con or ex-felon, that contributes to the likelihood of recidivism.

so it starts with that. that's step one. step two is, is that we have to find ways to lift the values of individuals that are released from prison, and one of the main institutions that we have been working with have been churches, or congregations. because we believe that they play a vo vital role of being ae to welcome an individual back into their community. so with those two, i think we can be well on our way. >> horace is in society's best interest in taking an active role in helping them people reintegrate back into society? >> first of all there are great

groups that actually work with individuals who are choosing to repent and want to get on with their life and wind ways to demonstrate how they can show the character. but i do not believe it's the study or responsibility of the government to say you served your time, now you can work as a prison guard. there is no reason to say you sit on the jury now and you get to decide what happens to these people. i'm saying we need to look. who are the people, and what choices are they making? will they choose not to? i think segments like this help to tell people who are sitting on the edge, there are consequences to bad choices. >> our community says . . .

nicole moving forward how can society help reintegrate these ex-felons. >> i'm really glad we live in a society that believers in second chances. when i listen to horace talk, i think if he had his way we would never be forgiven. and i don't know anyone who hasn't made some kind of mistake, and thank goodness live in an opportunity where people have the opportunity to make good even after making mistakes. but that being said, i think we need to talk about what happens when you are in prison. governor cuomo made an announcement that he is going to start funding college courses for individuals in prison. those are steps in the right direction. let's start to prepare individuals so when they are

released they take advantage of the opportunities that exist to get back into society. >> thank you all for being on the show tonight. until next time, we'll see you online. ♪ ♪ good evening, everyone, welcome to al jazeera america, i'm john siegenthaler in new york. fleeing the violence, a four year old boy falls behind during an exodus out of syria, and an inside look at the humanitarian efforts there. the right to die, we'll hear very different opinions on the right to die. and the jury could not reach a verdict in the killing of jordan davis. and how important