jobs. those are the head lines, i am john siegenthaler, i'll see you back at later. how the u.s. may have is a using weapons of tomorrow today. "consider this" with antonio mora is up next. and you can get the latest news on aljazerra.com. the violence in ukraine explodes and turns deadly. we'll get reaction from kiev. also venezuela's up rising gets more dangerous by the day with no end in sight as an opposition leader is arrested. how will hillary clinton's time at the state department impact her presidential run. how does she compare to her successor he john kerry. and sobriety test devices in the age of legal marijuana. welcome to "consider this." here is more on what's ahead. ♪ ♪

we are appalled by the violence. it will not resolve the crisis. >> violence and blood she had bt stop immediately. police arrest the leader of the opposition. the fact is, we have four dead americans. >> this is a comeback story. a story of how she went from pretty well in thest of the american public back to a high point. >> okay. ♪ ♪ we begin tonight with out break of violence in ukraine, 20 people were reported killed tuesday in clashes between police and protesters in the country's capital kiev. hundreds more may have been hurt. the violence started earlier in the day after protesters reoccupied city hall and marched in to an area near independence square where police had amassed. police are accused of using live ammunition as well as tear gas, water cannons and rubber bullets

to fight the protesters. ukraine has been paralyzed by political turmoil when the president reject aid deal with the european union in return for financial sport and closer ties with russia. for more i am joined from ukraine's capital kiev by natialia correspondence with an independent online news seven theres in ukraine. thank you for doing this for us. where have you been today? and what did you see? >> reporter: we have been following as editor, anchorrer and journalist everything happening from early more than generally. so far i have a shift in the newsroom. but i should explain what's happening now. it's most urgent. we are now doing our news and talking to all the reporters from the field. so what is is new, what we haven't heard is that it's also the thugs in plain cloths have joined the police and still a huge out break of violence in the independence scare. the crack down is in full force

and people try to protect themselves. the protesters, with different kind of means, we know that also there are injuries from both sides. buttethe difference of the two events is definitely during the day there was a clash and we can talk about the use of force some legitimate use of force and the live ammunition and it is confirmed, i have -- we have a journalist who brought the bullet in to the studio and it's not just rubber bullets but life. now the situation is going on, and i guess for the last more than five hours, there is a constant call from the people and from the position and all international body to his stop the violence that would do something that the police and this force would stop the crack down because little by little they overtaking the square,

which actually was put on fire. and, yes, now the cocktail molotovs are use but also the live ammunition as well. but the people in the square don't know -- it's kind of an asylum for them. it's their camp and the biggest concern is since the early days there are a lot of injured. and we are talking about hundreds of people. hundreds of injured. and because of the violence in the place, really the ambulances it's hard for the people to get the injured and get some help because we continue know how many people are missing since the day. and it's happening right now, there are some development in the country, but the only response from the government is this entire terror operation which in ukraine is unique, we have never heard of the word terror here, that's probably the main thing to address. >> well, it is scary to of what the pictures of the violence and doesn't surprise me at all seeing those pictures that it must be hundreds of people who got hurt. now, who started the violence

today? is it clear that it was the police and not the protesters? >> yes, in a way we know what was happening -- i won't get in to the politics, because of course there was this idea of the attempt of the position to put up the all-time constitution which would have a less -- give less power to the president. when the people marched to parliament there were people in plain clothes also throwing stones, the people also thrown stones but got the answers with the rubber bullets, with the grenades, what is really happening is that the subway first time in the ukrainian history was shutdown in order that more people won't come to the center. so the center is somehow cut for the people, people can't go there, but i know a lot of people are walking to reach the place because that's the only --

there is not any trust in the -- no trust in any -- you know, any police or anybody. so there should be just volunteers or who would help the people, and also there are a lot of volunteers among the doctors and there is also people who are in the center, they, for instance, are afraid if they would be taken to the hospital, they would being arrested in the hospital. because these cases were also forwarded. but of more concern there is one person, the president who doesn't pick up the phone, from the president of the european commission from angela merkel, joe biden more or less reached him. but seems that all day there was not any sign and this is the only person can somehow gifford to stop. >> is there any chance that yanukovych will back down a little bit. there are reports that he's meeting with opposition leader vitale klischko. is it possible ideal will be reached and this will calm down? >> there is just a hope, because

so far there is a feeling that the red line is kind of crossed. because the government also used these people with unknown definition, who also attack and and really, for -- with every hour there are more people injured. so the hope is there, but but the answer is not there. >> we hope for the sake of all the people who have gotten hurt that something -- >> i should explain, i am sorry for interrupting. it's very important, for the international audience to understand, this is something which happened first time in the ukrainian history. never. there was a case a month ago when the three people died and the first people died in the clashes with police in ukrainian history. we have never seen something like that, this is why the people are very confused. they are disturbed they don't know what to do they are

disturbed and society is not ready for this. i believe the danger is that people are ready to answer because so far they didn't see any concession from the government. >> it's very disturb to go watch this. thank you very much for joining us telling us what's going on in kiev. switching topics to another nation in crisis, venezuela opposition leader low polled owe lopez vend today police in caracas tuesday but not before telling a huge crowd that he wasn't afraid to go to jail to highlight what he called the country's corruption and did he line after 15 years of socialist government. lopez also said imprisonment would be well worth it if it woke up the venezuelan people to the country's polite. after the arrest, 10s of thousands of demonstrators blocked the streets in say show of support for lopez and against the government. it has been racked by december straighters for weeks by people saying they have had enough of crumbs, shortage of basic items

and inflation that's the world's highest despite being an oil-rich country. meanwhile the president told supporters that lopez must answer for what he called treason us acts. earlier protests left three people dead so he faces channel of homicide. i am joined by venezuela's ambassador to the u.n., president of the u.n. council and government of caracas, it's great to have with you with us, we saw in the streets of caracas yourself today. you were out there speaking to the soldiers from the national guard blocking a street. you went right up to them and talks to them what did you say? >> i was telling them, more to the officers behind them that they were not only obstructing a peaceful demonstration, but but they were threatening and abusing the rights. venezuelan people. i told the officers one day you will be judged and prosecuted almost as war criminals because

that's the way the national garts men are behaving in venezuela. >> did you get any kind of response from them? >> no. the officer said keep cool. the officers knew me they knew i won't going to stop. it was a way to demonstrate reaction to the armed firsts in venezuela to abuse the rights and demonstrations like today. >> you are one of the major opposition leader, low owe peeled owe lopez who has been the inspiration or one of the inspirations had been in hiding after the president said he was going to be ate ared was it the right move for him to surrender to president maduro's forces? >> it's such is a personal decision to do it. he wanted to demonstrate that's not an outlaw. we don't have a judicial system. there are no laws in venezuela

that will treat him objectively. but the regime relies that putting lopez in jail, lee polled owe lopez will generate a lot of problems. what started 13 days ago are student december strayings against human rights violations throughout venezuela is blooming and grown for nba to a massive protest which i believe will increase in the forthcoming days. >> it's also being reported that another leader of lopez's party is now being order today surrender. are they going to be going after more and more political prisoners and can they get fair trials? you just said the judiciary is just not independent. >> you know, we have been living here for 15 years the same system. many of the venezuelan leadership and opposition have not realized that we are facing to begin with a military government because venezuela is

a military regime, controlled by the cuban amazingly, by the cuban regime. and as such the cubans have great experience in exercising pressure and nba how to pressure societies. and they are doing that in venezuela, they control the military, they control the police, they control the intelligence agencies, so they are in full control today in venezuela. even though that's the situation we give them 100,000-barrels of oil a day. >> this began with hugo chavez's close relationship with fidel castro. but chavez was elected a number of times, maduro last year, very, very tight, almost split down the middle vote, but they also won elections in december. so what do you and other members. opposition want from the maduro government? >> you know, actually, when chavez died, venezuela entered into a transition process which i believe has been now coming to

an end with maduro. you know, to begin with, the last presidential elections, we won the last presidential elections, actually, we were not able to gain rick mission of that. but it's a fact. and in the election we won the big cities. but there is no electoral option for venezuela. we win all the elections the regime will not allow united states to gets to power. we have 60,000 cubans in venezuela, we have all kind of narc owe traffickers, mafias, under the protection of the government. seven generals of the highest rank which are on the kingpin list of the united states treasury. never not going to give up $90 billion a year which is the income of venezuela a year, we are a great business for the cubans the mafia groups and the corrupt military officers and the corrupt members of the high arc i of venezuela.

there is a great appetite to preserve it as we have it. maduro said to us last week, i don't care you'll never get back to power. if i let loose all of these civilian groups, they have a lot of gangs which are armed, today they did not exhibit they want because there were a lot of journalists in venezuela. but they have these gangs, which are criminal gangs, which last week killed three young people. and this afternoon today, they shot another girl, a queen beauty of valencia, was shot in the head. so they use these groupings in order to not to let the armed forces because the armed forces are beginning to get very concerned about implications of the responsibilities that they may face in the future regarding of crimes that have been committed for so many years. >> and we have seen pictures. opposition rallying in caracas and rallying around the country.

but there is tremendous censorship; there not? it's very hard to get much of this out because the government controls almost all of the med media. >> you know, the control that they have is about 90% but they have 100 percent because whenever they want, the president enters what we call the chain, the link, all the televisions and radio stations they change them to one voice and one view. and chavez exploited that a lot. now this gentlemen, by the way, we don't even know whether the gentlemen who acts as head of venezuela is a columbian? , he has never been able to prove document that he's a venezuelan citizen. the people watch this program, antonio maybe wondering what kind of country we are, what kind of country we have become. venezuela for such a long time a respected member of the international community. today we have become the source of financing for some of the

worst causes against humanity. we were friend with qaddafi. castro, you choose them. if there is an enemy of the united states then immediately the government of venezuela joins the ranks. >> now, and u.s. diplomats have been thrown out of venezuela, the u.s., insists the charges that the u.s. has been involved in all of this are false. and baseless and that venture swa is la is trying to distract from of actions, although the u.s. does support some opposition groupings. it's very good to have you on the show and we appreciate you joining us. thank you very much. >> thank you so much. we have we break we want to bring you the latest from another country convulsed by previous test on his tuesday. at least four people were killed and morning 60 injured in bangkok thailand as riot police struggled to force anti-government protesters from blocking the streets around the prime minister's office. while the wrote testers insisted they were peaceful and unarmed,

at least one policeman was killed and 20 injured. witnesses reported seeing at least one protester with an assault weapon. the protest movement is trying to depose thailand's elected government which claims -- which it claims favors corrupt politicians and the rural north and they want to replace the government with an unelected assembly. coming up, stoned drivers slipping past sobriety tests. why police may need to shake up their old method says. and our social media producer her mall a hermela is track thes happening on the we had. >> after a yes cent explosion chevron's apology is getting a lot of aingers i'll tell you why coming up. let us know what you think on twitter on aj consider this or leave a comment on our face back page.

>> start with one issue education... gun control... the gap between rich and poor... job creation... climate change... tax policy... the economy... iran... healthcare... ad guests on all sides of the debate. >> this is a right we should all have... >> it's just the way it is... >> there's something seriously wrong... >> there's been acrimony... >> the conservative ideal... >> it's an urgent need... and a host willing to ask the tough questions >> how do you explain it to yourself? and you'll get... the inside story ray suarez hosts inside story

weekdays at 5 eastern only on al jazeera america with marijuana legalization on the rise, concerns about the safety and prevalence of driving after smoking pot are growing throughout the country. but the issue of driving under the influence of marijuana is complicated from how to measure impairment to knowing just how impaired they are when high. joining us from colorado is glen davis the highway safety manager of the colorado department of transportation. good to have you with us. according to american journal of epidemiology, the number of car crash victims with pot in their systemses increased threefold from 199 to 2010. do you believe marijuana is to

blame? >> i believe that shows that marijuana certainly is a substance being used and is a contributor to those crashes. >> according to another study a 20-year-old drunk driver is much more likely to be in a fatal crash than i think it's almost 20 times more likely than someone who wasn't drinking at 20. driving while high doesn't seem to have as nearly as much of an effect is driving after having used marijuana less dangerous than drunk driving? >> i don't think so. marijuana is an impairing substance just like alcohol. and if pima beus it or even just use it to the point of impairment, it's equally dangerous. >> how reliable -- or how do you enforce it. other studies show that as little as 30% of people that

smoked marijuana fail the test. how do you figure out who is impaired and who is not? >> i can speak for colorado which we have law enforcement officers highly trained in detecting impaired drivers whether it's alcohol or drugs. it's not just the roadside that determines the arrest. it's the person's driving, what it was like during their contact, the type of violation it was, the innin indicia of impairment that the officer sees. the test doesn't determine if they were under drugs it determines if they were impaired and need to be arrested for further testing. >> are there marijuana-specific tests? because, again, if that study found that about 30% of people smoked marijuana, can do the standard field sobriety test, it would seem that you might not be able to just checking them casually and the roadside test will be able for figure out whether they are high or not? >> the roadside tests of standardized and should be able

to detect if someone is impaired. in colorado if someone is arrested and the officer feels there is a likelihood that the impairment is something other than alcohol, he can call in a drug recognition expert. the drug recognition expert can do some other tests on a person, they are not really at road roas more in a clinical situation, like in a processing room and then he can -- that dre can make determination fist that person is impaired by something other than alcohol or a combination of drugs and alcohol. >> you know you have done phone surveys that people don't know that dui laws apply for marijuana. but colorado treats driving under the influence of marijuana as -- the same as alcohol, is that the right approach? >> that's direct. in colorado the statute for dui, it's alcohol and/or drugs. so it could be a combination of alcohol, drugs, or just alcohol or drugs, but just the fact that marijuana was legalized in colorado it -- it was really no change for the dui statute. driving while impaired by marijuana or any drug has always

been illegal. >> now, colorado has some legal that fresh holds for marijuana, one of the issues that arises when you read about all of this is that people have different tolerances and that marijuana stays in people's systems. so a heavy user can actually still have pretty high levels of the active ingredient marijuana in their system days after the last time they smoked. >> well, colorado, what people are tested on is blood. and the blood will show the active ingredient. the ingredient, impairing ingredient which is delta nine tetra knapp knowledge. >> how about the issue that it stays in people's systems long longer. you drink and it's out of your system but the active ingredient can stay in a day or two. >> it shows the body discharging it. but if a person takes blood that

will show what the active ingredient is. >> have a seen any change on the roads since marijuana became legal? >> we haven't but we are only 50 days in to this. >> right. >> so it will take a while to analyze a data. maybe in a year and five years from that. >> a lot more to learn given the experience in a way that is happening there in *l come glen davis highway safety marge force colorado department of transportation, thank you very much for joining us tonight? >> thank you so much. >> turning now to foreign policy whether u.s. troops stay in afghanistan could have wide-ranging consequence on the war on terror. hamid karzai has refused to sign the bilateral agreement that would keep troops in afghanistan beyond 2014. but american drones in the area depend on bases in afghanistan that would have to close in u.s. troops left. how would that effect important

american security interests in both afghanistan and neighboring pakistan? joining us now from washington, d.c. is daniel, a senior fellow for india, pan stan and south asia the council on foreign relations and also the a tour of the book no exit from pakistan. daniel, great to have you with us. let's first talk about the issue of afghanistan and our bases there, if america fully pulls out and we scant have bases for drones, how badly will it hurt us? >> it will hurt us pretty badly. assuming that the problem of al qaeda persists along the pakistan, afghanistan border which is i think an assumption we can make. there aren't a lot of other great pace paces from which to h drones given the geography of the ring. >> unthat will hurt us on how many different levels? >> look at al qauda, a that will persist, that means that terrorists who are planning, plotting, organizing attacks, in

that border area, would be more able to do so. then there is the problem of regionally militants, groups that have attacked in afghanistan will continue to do so. potentially plot attacks against neighboring india as well and the problem of attacks against pakistan itself. we have our problems with pakistan, but stability there is also still important to us. and groups like the pakistani taliban, homegrown insurgents would be more likely to launch their attacks, plan their plots against islambad from those areas as well. and we wouldn't have the drone tools to be able to address that. >> because there is just simply no other place where we could put our bases that would give us enough access to get to those areas quickly enough. conceivably we could even have american forces on the ground conducting operations that we couldn't then support from the area. >> yeah. i wouldn't say that there are no other places. i moon, there have been

suggestions that we could try to launch the drones from further air field in central asia that we could try to have them based offshore, base them in the persian gulf and launch them from there, so there are some options. but just look at the globe. this is a difficult area, those distances are fairly long. the technology of drones particularly the earlier technologies is not so advanced that you can fly these things indefinitely. so the chances of being -- of having problems as they fly and also having shorter times that they would be available to suhr veil overhead, these problems with be more significant. we wouldn't see the targets as well examine and not hit them as quickly once we do see them. >> the alternative adds hundreds of miles of defense tans for their flight. >> right. >> let's talk about is meet car same he has resisted signing this agreement that keeps around 10,000 american troops in

afghanistan. you are said that, quote, karzai has believed for sometimes that he has this leverage that we need him and his bases than he needs us. is that the case? if show, i is that why he seemso be playing hardball against the u.s. >> it's always a difficult thing to try to read his minds. he has mull tim motivations and drivers for the decisions he's made in his negotiations with us. but by almost all accounts, he has basically from the beginning thought that he had more leverage with us than we have had with him. it's partially the drone issue. it also has do with the sense reported from multiple sources that he seems to think that the united states basically thinks of afghanistan in much more sort of significant gio strategic, geopolitical terms. perhaps as a means for the united states to exert influence in to central asia, to flank a

ron and iran, things this that y believe that we need more than we do. >> we have seen the results of the complete withdrawal from iraq and the extremism in iraq and syria. could that happen in afghanist afghanistan, a rise of the taliban that would mean we have wasted all this money and lives in this long war? >> i think it could. we see and we hear stories about a zero option, that is united states not being able to achieve bilateral security agreement with karzai or perhaps with a future afghan government, and drawing down to zero or near vero in terms of forces there. and by by most accounts you would see certainly the taliban rejoice in this and the question how far they can push their advantage and what kind of backlash that would bring inside afghanistan from opposing

forces. many afghans oppose the taliban and from the rider region what is russia, india, pakistan do. in the past you have seen this dissolve in to a civil war. and there are many reasons to think that you might see something similar. if not overnight, then perhaps over a period of years. whether that would mean that all of our efforts in afghanistan were wasted, of course that remains to be seen. but it would be a major setback at least i think so. >> you have called for a complete reappraisal of our relationship with pakistan, is pakistan the bigger issue in all of this, there are a lot of problems there, including actually those drones that are used for some nuclear monitoring, because, being, pakistan is a nuclear power and there are reports that it's creating more and more nuclear weapons as we speak. >> yeah. pakistan is by far the more significant challenge, or even threat to u.s. interests over the long-term as compared to afghanistan. just by the numbers. pakistan nearly 200 million

people. likely to reach 300 million people by mid century, putting it certainly in the top half dozen of countries in the world as put it, pakistan is nuclear armed. it's arsenal is growing. including tactical nuclear warheads, very small ones that raise new problems or potential problems with respect to terrorism, theft, proliferation unauthorized use, this is a very dangerous and volatile situation and of course, pakistan is also a country that has, like afghanistan, but in even more significant numbers, international terrorist groups, internationally financed, links to the gulf and elsewhere in the world, these problems aren't going away overnight. and these are the kind of things that we have to confront for decades to come. >> again, the book is no exit from pakistan, america's tortured relationship with islambad. daniel, great to have you on the show, thank you for your time. >> thank you. time now to see what's trends on the ground al jazerra america's website let's check

back in with hermela. >> chevron is under fire for its response to a recent incidents. last week one of their fracking wells in pittsburgh, pennsylvania exploded causing a fire that lasted four days. one person was left injured, and another is missing and presumed dead. along with the letter of apology, chevron sent 100 penal in the nearby community a coupon for a large pizza and a two-liter drink at a local shop. the letter was posted online monday and caused quite a stir. director josh fox known for his films on the dangers of fracking sarcastically chevron guaranteed our wells won't explode or your pizza is free. however pizza is only part of their out reach they are making donations to local fire departments ranging from a thousand to $7,500. let us know what you think about this store on twitter at ajconsiderthis to read more check out our website america.aljazerra.com. straight ahead a fresh look at hillary coin chin tonigh clie

as secretary of states. also america's sign terrific knowledge is limited. evening more surprising how we stack up with the rest of the world. later, another controversy is brewing over zoos, this time in costa rica.

>> al jazeera america is a straight-forward news channel. >> its the most exciting thing to happen to american journalism in decades. >> we believe in digging deep. >> its unbiased, fact-based, in-depth journalism.

>> you give them the facts, dispense with the fluff and get straight to the point. >> i'm on the ground every day finding stories that matter to you. >> in new orleans... >> seattle bureau... >> washington... >> detroit... >> chicago... >> nashville... >> los angeles... >> san francisco... >> al jazeera america, take a new look at news. >> start with one issue education... gun control... the gap between rich and poor... job creation... climate change... tax policy... the economy... iran... healthcare... ad guests on all sides of the debate. >> this is a right we should all have... >> it's just the way it is... >> there's something seriously wrong... >> there's been acrimony... >> the conservative ideal... >> it's an urgent need... and a host willing to ask the tough questions >> how do you explain it to yourself? and you'll get... the inside story ray suarez hosts inside story weekdays at 5 eastern only on al jazeera america 30 thigh months ahead of the next presidential election hillary rodham clinton' time as secretary of state is getting its first in-depth book treatment. the flattering portrait offered an hrc, state secrets and the

rebirth of hillary clinton looks inside the merciless clinton political mans find enemies and operatives that loathe her and focuses on a woman that never stopped running for president. joining us now is jonathan allen the white house correspondent for bloomberg and same i at the hill. great to have you both on the show. congratulations on the any book. jonathan, i'll start with you, many think john kerry has has he collisions her in the office. you talk about how she was cautious there. is john kerry looking at history and has no -- doesn't feel like he's risking anything while hillary clinton is really looking at the future and what it means for her specifically when it comes to running for president? >> there may be some of that, you know, john kerry's sort of marquee things that he's working

on right now, syria, iran, and the middle east peace are three things their unresolved. and so we don't know how we'll be able to score that, you know, when all things are said and done, in particular with iran, it was state department officials under hillary clinton who first started having those negotiations with the iranians through, you know, direct sit downs in 2012. so i think the john carry scorecard is still got some incompletes on it. as far as hillary clinton goes, we go in to great detail on this in the book. there was no marquis peace deal under her and that's one metric by which she will be measured. we think there are some other metrics at that matter, diplomats fore job is to make sure problems don't arise, you tried to head thing off at the pass and anecdotes we tell in the book of times where she did that. poe 1potential diplomatic disasr

that his she headed off. those that criticize her no not gotten the israelis and palestinians to sit down and sing in harmony are accurate at that didn't happen. >> you start the book with the clinton hit list, let's starts there too. it's gotten a lot of attention, what you guys wrote that she had this hit list that ranked friends and foes and numerical from one to seven. one being the best. least helpful the seven of the. and number seven is you had 10 0 kennedy, john carey, clara ma cass kill among address, do you buy the line that this was interpreted, aim? >> they are saying they don't rely on it or circulate it it shows as a reminder that they keep an eye on friends and enemies. the clintons are looking for weared and back. people and how does it pertain to today? clearly it does if she's running

in 2016 it will apply to that. bill clinton went on revenge cycles in 2010 and 2012 where he took out people that didn't support his wife. so i think that this all comes forward in time. >> and both of you, amy, are convinced that there is no question, that she hasn't stopped running for president, she has every intention of running in 2016? >> sure, this train is rolling and gaining steam for sure. you know, all of these outside groups have formed around her, she is fundraising already happening ready for hillary is there. all she needs to do really is decide that she's running and the whole landscape is there for her. >> now, one thing jonathan, that the book gives her credit for, talking again about diplomacy is restoring the image around of america around the world after the bush years. and you certainly bring up some of the positive things that back gates and general petraeus had to say about her. but given everything that's happened since you wrote the guts of the book, what we saw in syria, how vladimir putin has reasserted his authority and the whole reset in russian relations

seems to have gone way. the in fact, putin now considered the most powerful person in the world compared to obama. was she actually successful in the long run in restoring that image? >> i think it depends on the country that you are talking about in terms of restoring the image. certainly, you know, the united states is long-term partners in europe viewed her in -- viewed the united states much better during obama's first term than they had during the bush administration, and you can measure this in polling across the world, the united states' esteem grew. we saw some coalitions between the united states and some phoning in the gulf cooperation council and the arab league and the invasion of lick i can't thalibya that younever would ha. therthere are places that that's true and countries where obviously have been harder not to crack in he remembers it of american upon layer at this. it's almost nothing in pakistan, for instance, if you look at the

polling it's clear that the united states is perceived better around the world today than it was when program took office and when hillary clinton took office and they have probably share some cred knit that. >> again gas benghazi, you addr. >> with all due respect we had four dead americans was it because of a protest or guys out to walk one night who decided go kill americans what difference at this points does it make? >> again, amy, that moment, i am sure, benghazi, a tough moment and we'll see in those address because she has received a lot of criticism in report that came out yes correctlout recently. >> we will see it again and again. there was an ad that mitt romney didn't use when he was running for president, that basically

pinpointed obama to benghazi or tried to blame him for it. and i think that is an ad that, you know, they'll play and accuse hillary clinton of having her hands in that's not really being prepared and this all happened under her watch. they are already gearing this up and i think we can very much expect to see it in the coming months. >> we have some social media questions for you guys. let's go to hermela for that. >> antonio, as you know hillary clinton has been the subjects of many mimes. one has portrayed her as a planet. the internet has made it their own. the original was written in 2008. even though hillary announced they'll run, major publications like new york times, washington posts and politico have all designated reporters to focus on her, is she in this came, jonathan whether she's di declad it or not? >> the last person to know that hillary clinton is going to run for president is going to be

hillary clinton. the way we frame it in the book and the way that amy and i perceive it, is that she's been running all along. and the question is whether or e stops are youing not whether she starts. i think anybody who reads this book will get inside details on how she continued to build the clinton political operation inside the state department while her husband did the same thing outside the state deem. went on the campaign trail, to build the family brand, to reward friends, punish enemies to help program in 2012 in hopes that that would be helpful for the clinton brand going forward. look, there is no question that she has been running for a long time. if she were to stop rungie think it would be, you know, certainly the story of the year of 2014. >> amy i would be remiss if i didn't bring up the criticism of the book. you guys had tremendous access, hillary spoke to you, a couple of hundred of hillary people spoke to you, which is terrific.

you have had criticism that the book is too favorable to her. your reaction. >> i don't think that's true. the new york time books critic gives you go a solid review. i think the one that you are referring to is one fees. >> one from john carl in the wall street journal and i think the financial times and the economist also felt it was a little too flattering. >> sure. no, i think, you know, we talked to people who like her, who don't like her, we talked to republicans who are thinking about running against her. we talked to a lot of different people. so i think we actually formed a pretty, "d" you know -- we boths and cover the white house and are impartial and this is the book we wrote. >> i should point out both sides have used pieces of this book in their plat cal ammunition those that defend hillary clinton and attack her have done so using pieces of this book. i just -- the reviewer has the

right to his opinion, we don't share. >> we have one piece, for instance, a health care piece, where hill run clinton is actually very much advocating for health care. she's rallying obama's cabinet around it. republicans are already using it as a talking appointment of i think both sides are taking this book and using what they want from it. >> certainly a lot is in the book that will add to the debate and the book again is hrc state secrets and the rebirth of hill run clinton. jonathan allen, army, it is great to have you both on the show, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> thank you antoin antonio oka. how do half of americans not known that humans developed in earlier species.

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today's data dive tackles scientific ignorance about one in four americans believe the sun revolves around the earth despite the fact that copernicus figured out it was the opposite five centuries ago. that was just one of the final goes from the national findings on science and engineering indicators just presented in chicago. however, out of 10 questions related to science and biologisy on average americans only got about six rights, to be fair americans fared better on the sun row tryings that people in the i understand that, european union and malaysia. americans were the top responders with the majority of question with exception from evolution when asked whether people evolved from a different sphere species of animals. still russia scored lower. knowledge is sometimes a little limited, more than 90% polled want to learn more about scientific discoveries and think scientists are working for the good of humanity, 60% had

visited a zoo, aquarium or science museum but we could still use education, many think ben frankly discovered electricity by using a kite. not true he was only trying to gain understanding of the electrical nature of lightning. some misconceptions are more serious like doubting whether a flu shot work, there is even a rumor that it can give you the flu. of course that's totally false. get those flu shots every year, you'll be glad you did. later, should intos exist? the controversy rageing in costa rica that could be felt back here at home.

take a new look at news.

the zoos under a harsh spotlight this month. last week a danish zoo sparked world right outrage when it killed a giraffe, cut it up in front of school children and fed the remains other animals, now costa rica is expected to decide soon whether to close its state zoos and transfer the animals to freer environments. it could have many implications, caiwayne the president and ceo f the human society joins us. >> costa rica would be the first country in the world to do something like that what kind of repercussions would it have? >> well, costa rica has really taken up the mantle of environment protection and animal welfare and defining its

economy my and nation around these very green principles and welfare principles this is an extension of what it's doing in a lot of other domains in animal welfare and conservation. i thanking any time you get a lead are like this raising questions about what best practices are, i think it reverberates in a global economy with global communication with his a global animal welfare movement. so i think it's bound to be discussed in the united states. and in other countries, that have a real regard for animal welfare. >> it's been a rough me pho* for zoos as we said because of what happened in denmark. but there are strong arguments in favor of zoos because they do serve as a primary tool to teach children about animals and wildlife. so where does the humane society stand on zoos in principle? >> well, antonio, in the united states we have about 200 accredited zoos, they are accredited by a private trade association of zoos. and they try to maintain strong

standards, they do enrichment for the animals in these environments. they have vet care, they try to pay attention to animal welfare and conservation principles, we are not always happy with all the things that they do, but we like the idea of standards and accreditation. for every one of those accredited zoos, we have 10 nona credited zoos, what we refer to as roadside intos or ma imagine. 2,000 of them. they deny their vet care, entirely unprofessional organizations you can drive around the united states and we urge our supporters and anyone concerned about animal welfare not not to patronize them. that's the biggest problem with captive wildlife issues in the united states along with private citizens owning them and keeping them as pets in their backyards or basements. those are the big issues. the accredited zoos, issues are

there, but they are definitely much lower burner issues for us at the human society of the united states. >> so there is no regulation to deal with these roadside zoos? or what kind of regulation is there? >> the u.s. department the al culture enforces the animal welfare act and you have to get a license if you are exhibiting animals for profit purposes. so u.s.d.a. may make one visit a year to these facilities. but the standards are almost nonexistence under the animal welfare act for captive wildlife the only thing that trigg airs violation is real filth, the animals starving, but if they are in a deficient enclosure that doesn't have the right size, if they are denying the animals an opportunity to socialize with others of their kind, those are not problems at all. and they don't deal with how the animals are procured or dispensed with once they don't want them any longer. >> beyond zoos we have theme

parks lie see sea world and black fish have been controversial. these are massive businesses issues with them? >> absolutely. black fish is a phenomenon it's been broadcast multiple times and really captured the imagination of the american pick big, especially young people wondering why okay as or killer wales the largest predators on the planet who swim 10s of miles every day who live in a social groups, family groups, why they are in these sterile little pools to do silly stunts so that people can, you know, cheer and clap at that. what black fish did was tell the back story and tell the story of, you know, failed reproductive efforts in captivity. what happened when animals the captured. the babies being take friend their mothers and i think it raises the question of the behavior and psychological needs

of the animals not being properly attend today in these captive settings. when you are dealing with incredibly smart creatures with big brains, why are we doing this if we are this big-brained creature ourselves that can distinguish right from wrong and this really falls on one side of the wrong side. >> people around the world were horrified by this thing in denmark with marius the giraffe that was killed and fed to lions in front of kids. there is talks of another jeff rav also named marius possibly in line to be killed by another zoo in denmark. what lessons should the worldwide community of zoos learn from that? >> well, i think the idea of treating animals just as commodities and if they are not contributing to the genetic diversity of the captive population of giraffes, they are expendsable and we are going to execute the animal and then feed the animal to the lions right in front of a bunch of school kids, i mean, there is a certain sort of reductionist thinking, a

cavalier thinking, a very narrow-minded thinking, that we think is all wrong. zoos can contribute to conservation and they can contribute to the genetic health of captive populations but they should also be thinking about animal welfare, they should be instilling an he go i can of kindness and compassion, thinking about the larger issues and not just treating animals that you don't think are going to add to the genetic health of a captive population as animals who are expendsable. giraffes are beautiful, remarkable creatures and kids don't want to see them shot and fed to the lions in front them. fortunately associations zoos and aquariums in the united states condemned the activity and said it's not a practice that's acceptable at u.s. accredited zoos it probably happens to one degree in these road sigh menageries, which, again, are the big problem in captive wildlife issues in the united states. >> important points, wayne of human society, great to have you back on the show, thanks for joining us. >> thank you very much. the show may be over but the

conversation continues on our website aljazerra.com/considerthis or on our facebook or google plus pages you can also find us on twitter at ajconsiderthis. we'll see you next time. check >> good evening, everyone, welcome to al jazeera america. i'm john seigenthaler in new york. tipping point - the explosion of deadly violence in kiev. a deadly turn. we have the latest, including the new warning to americans from the state department. uganda's intolerance. despite president obama's stern warning that government may soon hand down