discrimination. large parts of the midwest under severe storm watches. thunderstorms spawning tornados until illinois on thursday. "consider this is next." i am del walters in new york. here is more on what's ahead. >> venezuela al security forces faceoff with demonstrators in the streets. >> carmo in.

a being carried to a hospital was shot in the head. >> the bandits, the suicide bombs. >> cent protesters were killed. a thousand wounded. some property testers fired on police in what's been the deadliest day so far since the protests began shaking ukraine to its foundation last november. demonstrators also took some 60 policemen captain and paraded them through independence scare.

unconfirmed records say the captives were taken to a hotel and released. for the latest, let's go kiev and nick schifrin. nick, good to have you with us. what have you seen today? i can still hear the noise where you are now. >> reporter: chaos and carnage has been replaced by an eerie calm. a lot of people bleeding right now. earlier, people feeding each other, a long barbecue line. there was a sense that today was a turning point. today was so violent they have to now lick their wounds. they have to dig in a little bit. a few blocks from here, we saw thousands of protesters around more police, a bus full of police. those were allowed to leave. it's calm right now behind me, absence that the violence really

was beyond the pale this morning. protesters did, as you say, advance toward police this morning. they did so with hunting rifles, a few handguns here and there. the police shot back with snippers and overwhelming force. we saw horrific videos with people armed only with plastic shields trying to get toward police and they were picked off one by one. protests. creating, with the bridge. all of this. it's going to increase because the protesters feel like they have to respond to the police violence with more of their own. >> after all of that awful carnage and you were talking about the mood of the demonstrators, they hahey have become more determined as a result of what happened today? >> not only more determined but more violent. i think they believe that they

have to defend themselves. a little more. sharpshooters and snippers, the sdmrus, ours, saying that if the protesters were to shoot back, they would get their freedom. they had get independence. a lot longer. some ways, you may see more martyrs being created here simply because of the pressure from the international community to make sure that the emotional and moral pressure stays on the government here and that the protesters are seen as people with plastic shields or hunting rifles at most being spotted in the street. there is a core here not radicals but certainly right-wing nationalists who are not afraid to fight back, not sfaed to shoot back.

>> he has demonstrated his weakness and putin may be thinking he has to find a deal he can cut in russia's best interest now. >> moscow correspondent for the washington post, good to have you on the show. thang for joining us. >> thanks very. >> will vladimir putin intervene? will they fall into a civil war? he has demonstrated his weakness. putin thinks he has to find a deal he can cut in russia's best interest. >> good to have you on the show. thank you for joining us. will they fall into a civil war? i am joined from montreal by a liberal party member. she is ukrainian-canadian who

served as moscow bureau chief for "the financial times." she is author of "sale of the sent re: the inside story of the second russian revolution." did you ever expect to see anything like what we have seen? this horrible turmoil and v violence in the ukraine. >> i can't claim to have that kind of a black crystal ball. this is a much more tragic, much more devastating situation than i had ever imagined. certainly, i think, anyone in ukraine had imagined. people really -- it's very shocking. ukraine actually in many ways had been a really successful democracy since the collapse of the soviet union. lots of things hadn't worked. ukraine had had three successful changes of presidents, which political analysts say is a measure of democracy. the soviet union collapsed

without violence. to have this sort of a bloody eruption really, you know, the u.s. ambassador tweeted this is the worst day in ukrainian history. i think that's a little bit bar because ukraine had a lot of bloody pages in history but this is the worst day in modern ukrainian history. >> since world war ii. what are you hearing from friends and colleagues there? >> look. i think the reports you've just carried are very accurate. what is striking for me about what's happening in ukraine right now is that the demonstrators -- not just the demonstrators but really the broad majority of the ukrainian people who do support them are not at all cowed by the pressure by the killings from the recommending e-mail. quite the contrary. what we have seen -- and this has been the pattern since november when these protests first began is that every time the regime tries to be more

repressive -- first it was beating people. then it was a series of laws to roll back ukrainian civil society and democratic freedoms and then it was actual shootings. every time that has happened, what you have actually seen is an even greater surge of public support for the protests. >> says something to me about how strong and how deep the popular support is. >> do you think the protesters can win their fight with president yanokovych? there was a more peaceful revolution 10 years ago? could there be a civil war? we know western europe is closer physically to europe and is much more proceed-west he were while eastern ukraine is more sympathetic to russia. >> well, you know, actually, i think that those fears of a synwin civil war in ukraine are misplaced. so far, we haven't seen

ukrainian citizens fighting ukrainian citizens. we have seen a government that is struggling to retain the support of some of the people who in the inner circle, a government trying not very successfully to quash the protest. you aren't seeing people outside of the government actually fighting the demonstrators, and the government is having a hard time even getting its own forces to repress the protesters. so this is -- this is -- the civil war parallel, i don't think, is the right one. i think what we are seeing -- and this is something that will alluded to is a not very successful attempt at imposing authoritarianism. this is yanokyvich trying to succeed. he has killed a lot of people. he has not managed to get them to go away. and that speaks to me both of the determination of the

protesters, of the depth of their popular support and, also, of his, as it is odd to say, of husband weakness. he can't get enough soldiers to go out there to clear the square. >> there is russia. you wrote recently that ukraine has always been russia's first and essential foreign conquest. would russia let he and his government go down to defeat without stepping in? >> i think that is the biggest question right now. and, you know, yanokovych has been acting so far at the behest of the russians. the reason that we have seen this greater repress is because the russians believed it was going to be possible for him to clear the square and they wanted that to happen. as part of this big $15 billion aid package which he was promised in lieu -- to dissuade him from signing the association

agreement with europe. the big question now is: how far russia is willing to back him in repressing the ukrainians. i don't know the answer to that. if russia were to choose to support him and we did see in 2008 the russians actually invade georgia, then i do think you would have a true war scenario in europe, something we haven't seen since yugoslavia. >> in talking about the association with europe that was rejected, you also wrote it was hard to foresee a velvet conclusion to the protests where the protesters would be victors and we would see rea newed ties with the european union. >> i think evening the best-case scenario is going to be messy. that's what we saw after the orange revolution in 2005 in ukraine.

ukraine is a very young democracy and it's a country that has very weak institutions of democratic governnance. the ukrainian people want it, but democracy ask more than a people willing to go out and fight for that in the streets, important though that is. it's lots of complicated and difficult-to-build civic institutions. ukraine doesn't have that. even if the democrats were to win, i think you would see them having a hard time governing. >> doesn't mean, though, that that is not the desirable outcome. i think that is absolutely the best possible outcome. >> a very dark day. >> it won't be smooth. >> it's certainly a dark day in ukraine. thank you very much for joining us tonight. coming up, as venzuelan's protests intense five, we will have the latest. rogue rege-mails that dubious diplomacy with dictators and we

are tracking the top stores on the web. >> a major u.s. plan to surveil its citizens has been scrapped. the details just ahead. while you are watching, let us know what you think on twitter at ajconsider this or on a facebook and google+ pages.

demonstrations in venzuela have spread across the country amid growing reports of a brutal crackdown on protesters by government forces and armed pro-government gangs with no independent t.v. news, venzuelans are turning to immedia immediate. the increasing tension comes after an unusual late-night covered proceeding for jailed opposition leader lopez conducted on a bus at a military

base prosecutors dropped the more sesous charge of murder against lop pes. the country's president blamed him for inciting protests that have left five people dead. lopez faces charges that could send him to prison for 10 years. we are joined now via skype by congress woman machao. she is one of the main opinion desigs leaders and was with lopes when he turned himself in to police. it's great to have you with us. you went to the military prison where he is being held on wednesday -- on thursday. what did you learn there? >> actually, we arrived with a group of members of the parliament and his wife who had not seen him since he was taken by the military two days ago. and they let us pass but we learned what had happened with the trial and the abused represent an illegal doe tained

innocent man judged at a military jail. this is unprecedented and proves totaltarian dimension of this regime. >> a government representative has moved to have your immunity removed so you can be arrested. there are reports the government may want to arrest the man who came within a percentage point of winning the election against maduro last year. do you believe the government will try to put all of the main opposition leaders behind bars? >> it is evident this regime fears that specific and massive movement that is coming from the grassroots and expressing its desire tore democracy and freedom and grows day after day. it's obvious that they want to threaten all of the citizens by taking away freedom. what they don't know is that there are millions of leaders

right now in the streets. if they take them away, others will join. it's not only because of the economic disaster and social crisis. it's about dignity, human dignity. it's about freedom and it's about our children and our kids that are being killed at these times, have a future in our country. >> and i know that the opposition is fed up with one of the worst murder rates in the world, rampant kidnappings, what is believed to be the world's highest inflation and a country that's believed to have the world's largest oil reserves. maduro leafs they wabelieves th to stage a coup. >> we have seen a long history around the world when you face a government that is a dictator ship -- because how do you call a government a regime that %

cutes that has repress, that tortures young stewart students who have been detained and sensor ships, the media. how is that region called? in our case, we are in a regime that has decided to deep en repress in these last hours. you mentioned what happened last night. it's undedescribable, the agree of brutality throughout the country. this criminal para military gangs protected by the government but also the national guard fired to innocent protesters and they even followed them in their private homes where they were looking for safety. they took them away. they hid them. now we have dozens of detained professors throughout the country. at this point, what we want and

what we will move along is a civic movement, every day more organized that proves and expresses the degree of desire for freedom and democracy and that makes this regime listen and understand what our country desires. >> the violence we have seen through the internet is frightening. it's not just in caraccus as you said. this is happening throughout the country. a beauty queen was shot to death during a peaceful demonstration in valencia. how much do you know since there is so little information to have. >> we have a lot of information. people called the social media. the videos simply are heart breaking. when you hear those young kids saying they are killing us because we are fighting for our future. when you hear their mothers say, now we will go out and keep on

fighting along my son and this is the degree of consciousness that makes me be absolutely convinced that they will not be able to -- to suppress and dominate venzuela. but it is important that the world understands how humans' rights are being violated every day, every hour throughout the country and that you help us make the world know how vie will not this is getting and accelerating day after day. >> the economist reports a score of journalists have been beaten, detained or had material erased. maduro took over the all of the t.v. stations tonight and threatened to take cnn's spanish language network off of the air which is still transmitting and giving information. with so little of this information getting out, i know you are planning massive demonstrations on saturday. what are you hoping to accomplish? >> well, the massive

demonstrations we had last week and this week were done exclusively by social network. here, media and journalists do not, you know, risk themselves. and sometimes they have given us chance to speak through their media. but citizens are aware that this movement is growing day after day. and even though the government with this violence wants people to keep from participating, they certainly under estimate the degree of passion and consciousness that has been proven and shown first by the student movements that started this process but that has been supported by the union leaders and grassroots organizations and certainly common citizens that understand the amount and the degree of responsibility that is on our shoulders as a generation. >> we will stay on top of this story, and we thank you for taking the time in what i know is an incredibly busy and

difficult time. congresswoman, thank you for joining us. >> thank you very much. switching topics to the perre perils to engage rogue states, a tactic my next guest calls dancing with the devil. some may say is on display remember iran and world powers including the u.s. announced they reached an agreement for a timetable on iran's nuclear program. for more, i am joined in new york by michael ruben, a resident scholar at the american enterprise institute. he was a pentagon official during the administration of the george w. bush and he is the author of "dancing with the devil" good to have you with us. >> thank you is there they were all smiles in vienna announcing this timetable. is there reason to smile? did we get anything? >> i think it's premature. this really is a deal to talk about having a deal, and oftentimes with the history of negotiations with iran action

it's two steps forward, 2 steps back. >> i want to play somethingp president obama said in his inaugural address. >> for those who claim power through corruption and desseed eat and the silencing of diss t dissent, know you are on the wrong side of history but that we will extend a hand if you are wanting to unclench your fist. >> you probably agree that the feeling behind that statement is fine, but you disagree with the practicality of it. you think he set himself up for failure with that? >> i do. i think the fundamental misunderstanding that president obama has isn't about diplomacy but rather how it should be conducted. the most effective talk actually comes after years of preparation of setting the right circumstances, president obama sees talk as the beginning of the process rather than the end. >> you wrote that recognizing a rogue state is something like what justice stewart referred to as pornography in his case saying that i know it when i see it. anthony lecout wrote some

details about what he thought backlash states were and they were all ruled by cliques, suppress human rights, promote radical ideologies and are immune to detevents. what do you see as the biggest rogue states? >> the big two are north korea and islamic republic of iran. not because of its diplomats but because of the revolutionary guard core. i probably got my last views at pakistan. >> included pakistan in that category simply because of the role of the isi? >> their intelligence service. >> exactly. >> we have been talking about ukraine and venzuela. given the circumstances of what's going on there in those two countries, would you consider those regimes as being rogue. >> i wouldn't. i would consider them being chaotic but the whole point of a rogue state is it's a state that doesn't simply abide by the normal rules of diplomacy. we haven't really seen that to be the case in tukraine yet. there is a difference between an

adversary and a rogue. >> is there a difference between a rogue state and groups like the taliban or like hezbollah. >> they certainly have many similarities. my first experience with the taliban was in afghanistan before 911 when they actually ran the government, ran the country. i would consider them a rogue. when you look at the rhetoric and their actions, they certainly don't abide by the normal rules of dem acy. >> the u.s. has negotiated with north korea and iran, two big rogue states. we have been doing this for decades with in most cases little success. you quote in the book nicholas burns, the am batsdor "we will be no worse off if we try diplomacy and fail." you think there can be a very big price if we try diplomaciacy and it doesn't go anywhere? >> in the case of iran, when there has been ute reach with iran we have seen the rates of execution skyrocket not under

rhohani but he who led the dialogue of civilations. when the americans sit down, oftentimes we are sincere but we can't project our own values system on our opponents. are the iranians trying to run down the clock? >> a big question. >> that's what the north koreans did and what scares me is when you look at the statements of iranian negotiators, they hold up north korea as the model to emulate. >> you sound like tedy roosevelt, speak softly and carry a big stick. is that one of the issues you think military might has to be used at least in some sort of a buildup in order to be able to get things achieved diplomatically? >> i don't want to use military force. look at reagan and gorbachov. diplomacy was successful. that came after ballistic missiles inside europe. diplomatic, comic and military. >> that's what works. >> what about american weariness

with war? >> that's ultimately the big problem we have right now. military strategies don't just mean war, antonio. they can mean containment as well. it's not a rhetorical strategy. it's the ability to have carrier strike groups in the persian gulf. >> you end by saying when presidents embrace dialogue and incentives as a solution to rogue behavior, when hope trumps change, the u.s. does not win peace but hasteps conflict. >> seems to be a hit at president obama, specifically what he did in syria. >> if you look at the book, the book is pretty critical, not only of president obama but of in the reagan. it's a bi-partisan look at the history over the last half century of this problem of the specific subset of adversaries which we would call "rouges." > again, we have to carry the big stick? >> we have to carry the big stick if we don't want to use it. i would argue, for example, in the middle east. wars are not caused by oil or water. if you wanted mentally, they are

caused when one side becomes over confident and it's important to ensure that other confidence doesn't lead to a reactive conflict. >> they feel something might happen, though, if they don't behave. "dancing with the devil" michael ruben, good to have you on the show? >> thank you, antonio. >> time to see what's trending on al jazeera's website. let's check back in with hermella ? >> the u.s. department of homeland security bark tracked on a recent proposal. last week documents revealed they wanted a private company to create a database of license plate information. information that's collected by cameras set up on things like toll booths, police cars and traffic lights, but it's not just a license plate number that is recorded. it's the date, the time, the location of the vehicle when the picture was taken. according to the proposal, i immigration and customs enforcement planned to use the data to pursue criminal immigrants but privacy advocates say it's an over reach. katherine crump with the aclu

said she is happy to hear the government has backtracked but she says, quote, it is still unexplained why the proposal was put forward and why it has been withdra withdrawn. villa is skeptical and says publically dropping their plans means they will do it secretlyly while larrisa aplauds the move she said sanity prevails and from the u.s. government no less. antonio, back to you. straight ahead, an al jazeera exclusive: extremism up close. incredible access to the taliban. and examining injuries at the olympics. one sport you would never expect to be dangerous. and later on, fraternities run amok inside the fierce tug of war for control of campus life across the country. >> more reporters. >> they don't have the resources to take the fight to al shabaab. >> more bureaus, more stories.

>> this is where the typhoon came ashore. giving you a real global perspective like no other can. >> al jazeera, nairobi. >> on the turkey-syria border. >> venezuela. >> beijing. >> kabul. >> hong kong. >> ukraine. >> the artic. real reporting from around the world. this is what we do. al jazeera america.

an al jazerra exclusive that takes us inside the taliban to give us a glimpse of what the war in afghanistan looks like from the taliban's point of view. even if the u.s. gets the afghan government to agree to a security agreement that would leave some u.s. forces in afghanistan, the first line of resistence to the taliban will be the u.s.-trained afghan national army. al jazerra's fault line shows a journalist following taliban fighters as they attack an afghan national army base. >> i am acutely aware that i wouldn't have been allowed here to film them unless they wanted the world to see what they showed me. >> the fact that the used the media to establish their point of view and get their kaza

cross, they should. we certainly do. >> it's an unusual and rare insight in to the other side and joining us now to discuss this is michael owe happen lan director of foreign policy research at the brookings institution, he is also the coauthor of the book touching it out in afghanistan, he joins us from our washington, d.c. studio. michael great to have you with us. if u.s. troops withdraw from afghanistan altogether, is the afghan national army ready? this film shows the taliban seemingly operating freely and with virtual impunity about an hour from kabul. >> great questions. first of all i would say that any time one unit is attacking another in warfare, and the one unit gets to choose the time and place of the ambush, it's no out. in other words, the fact that the taliban was able to plan this particular raid does not surprise me. the more important question would be, first of all, how well did the afghan army respond.

and secondly are they preventing large scan sen tryingses from taliban from forming in the immediate environments, because they can prevent that with proper patrolling and use of intelligence networks among the local population, so from what i have seen in the film i found it fascinate in this sense that it gave more of a direct view of the way this whole war has been going on and i think a lot of people will be curious, they have been reading about the war, they have been seeing statistic on his the war for a decade and very much appreciate a bit of a feel for what it's like visually and in real time. but it did not strike me it did not show them against a hapless police. >> this group did not seem terribly strong but were seemingly operating freely and walking freely down the streets and fairly close to the capital which did surprise me. let's take a look at some of the film that focuses on that attack. >> the plan is they told me is

to capture an afghan national army base. the only thing i know is that they say they are going to fight until they capture the base. they are not going withdraw. that told me exactly when -- they haven't told me exactly when they are going to attack, just said it will happen around sunrise. >> it didn't seem as you said like much more than a nuisance attack, but how well armed are the taliban? >> what i am worry about with the taliban, they are armed in terms of ak47s and rocket propelled grenades and the roadside bombs those are their main weapons of choice, the problem is that they seem to have a limitless supply of fighters. it's not a popular movement among the general population, that's very important to drive home, but there are certain tribes and certain groups and certain headquarters over the border in pakistan which have proven resilient, which have proven willing to keep supporting the taliban and so you have essential a gorilla movement that is at a level of stays us and the government

cannot really beat it down and we haven't been able to beat it down . it's not winning the ward, the cities are mostly in government hands and transportation too. some of the areas around kabul are contested and may increase as the nato forces dre down. my worry is not so much about momentum or pop layer if i or big weapons just that it's managed to stay resilient throughout the last decade of conflict. that means i think they will be around a while. i don't expect them to win, i don't expect them to defeat the afghan army or police but they will try for create crisis of con confidence, do spectacular attacks and try to erode the afghan will in this crucial year of transition. >> this group said this they are not aided by the pakistanis, but certainly they are not as close to pakistan as other groups are which may be getting aid from them. let's look at more of this attack, i think the taliban

wanted the correspondent to go with them in order to show their power which may been a little exaggerated . >> and then suddenly the fighting begins . the taliban's ready machine gun is ready. >> and the a.n.a. fight back. >> the taliban soldiers that i am together with have their last

two men, it looks like they are not as positive as they were before they started attacking the base. and for these fighters, it looks like the situation might be about to get worse . >> they certainly lost this en counter and at times seemed hapless but certainly had some fire power to go after them. you have written that they we sd not be that pessimistic about the future in afte afghanistan. the reality is the taliban does not have as many fighters as they when br* when th did when the soviets withdrew. >> we called them freedom fighters and appreciated what they were doing, they weren't necessarily all fighting for a seventh century with supression of women's rights with and a throw back to centuries ago of, you know, of lack of education and lack of rights for nonbelievers.

he were, in that sense in, at that case against the soviets, just trying to drive an occupier out of their country. and a lot of the people in the government now were leading the military, were freedom fighters. and so you are right, at that time it was a quarter million strong and from all different major tribal groupings, today the taliban is from certainly parts of the community and probably includes 20, 30, 40,000 fighters. that's more than i wish they had. and, again, they have been resilient. and they have been able to keep it going. and it's true they get a lot of their support from inside of afghanistan, although they have important sanctuaries for command and control over the border, that's been a big part of the problem. it's not a trivial enemy, i acknowledge that. but i think -- >> do you think the number will grow in americans leave? >> i think the afghan army and police will be really tested. and i think if we left altogether they would face a very difficult year or two a higher risk of mission fair all and of defeat than i would want. i'm not sure the taliban will grow in size quickly, what you

could see is eye cries i of confidence in the afghanistan people trying to build a new nation and moving back home if they had gone in exile or trying to stay put, live in the cities and send their kids to school and believe in the new way of life and government and all of the sudden they'll have doubts if this prove, if the taliban scores some spectacular victories if made owe withdraws altogether. it's the presidential race goes badly. we have to be attentive to those things. if that begins that could lead to a general unraveling of the general support for the government, the military, the army, that's how i think things could get worse. not by the taliban radically growing in size, i don't think they have the support to grow quickly in size. >> a brief final question, the correspondent is an afghan, he was allowed in by the taliban, he had been kidnapped once by them. what do you make of the fact that they allowed him to do what he did? >> i think that in many ways because this attack was relatively small scale and localized and very typical of

the kind of thing we are seeing weekly if not daily in afghanistan, i view it as a microcosm of the whole war and not a big battle or a case where the journalist had to really worry, was he aiding and abetting the enemy. and the enemy didn't have to worry that he might give up information that was going to crucially set them back. it was such a limited engagement, that it really was just sort i've tiny window in to the nature of combat in afghanistan and therefore i personally am not surprised that they let him do it and i have no major criticism of his doing so. i am not sure an american could have or should have done that. i think it probably did provide a useful window for a lot of people in to the conflict. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you. next month fault lines will air more of this. on march 21st and 28th. straight ahead, curling may be an olympic punch line for late night talk shows, but could it also be very dangerous? dive.

and the deadly side of greek life inside fraternitie fraternities popularity and the heinous act committed on campus.

today's data dive is bruising as the winter olympics drive down sochi, surprising numbers of emerging as to the most injury-prone sports. turns out courag curling not ass you think, the sport that makes housework look strenuous caused more injuries in the last winter olympics than speed skating, freestyle skiing, moguls, nordic combined, biathlon and luge. that's right, hurling down a track at more than 80 miles an hour was safer than sweeping a broom over ice for a minute at a time. this is all according to a study of injuries at the last winter olympics in 2010. from the british journal of sports medicine. speed skaters may look more athletic and daring than durings but less prone to injury.

same for lugers and freestyle skiers. surprisingly, snowboard cross had the highest rate of injuries in any events. 35%. that i that is nearly double the next sport in terms of dangerous. bob let were most hurt in two areas, of the 287 injuries, the highest number 3 39 knee injuries. head followed close by by wounds, face, neck up ander back. same argue that's the dang their makes the games all the more exciting. coming up the dark power of practice fern afraternities arey more powerful than the colleges that house them? al jazeera america. we open up your world. >> here on america tonight, an opportunity for all of america to be heard. >> our shows explore the issues that shape our lives. >> new questions are raised about the american intervention. >> from unexpected viewpoints to

live changing innovations, dollars and cents to powerful storytelling. >> we are at a tipping point in america's history! >> al jazeera america. there's more to it.

why do not they close down a bad frat? that frat has a lot of power within the structure of the school. >> as we mentioned, frats have been linked to deaths with a bigger number of injuries and sexual assaults. how have they become such a hot bed of trouble. is it really much worse than it used to be? >> that's a really good question. the answer is nobody knows if it's worse or not. what we know is students more and more and their parents more and more are changing, and they are saying, we don't -- we don't think the fraternity has the right to do this. we are not going to suffer in silence. we are not going to keep the secrets we are supposed to keep and kids no longer think if i

send my kid away to school and something happens, i will stay quiet. people are bringing these cases forward in civil litigation. we are starting to learn an awful lot about what goes on behind the closed doors. >> is part of the problem we don't know it's gotten worst because frat brothers cover up many of the issues that do arise because of peer pressure? >> you know, a lot -- if you -- the case that you mentioned of that student from belute college in new york. while he was dying his fraternity brothers were googling head injuries instead of calling 9-11. they were trying to see if he had a head culture. there is a fixture of try to fix it, keep it behind closed doors, don't reveal you were in hazing. >> can lead to some terrible cases we read about. >> you point out the good work fraternities do as you just did a moment ago talking about the fundraising. they raised millions of dollars in charity. they donate millions of hours of community service every year. you also talk about how their

alumnae include presidents, senators, congressman, 500 ceos. so their contributions to american life is unquestionable? >> when fraternity life is done right, it gives tremendous benefits, and really, their powerhouse fields are law, business and politics and they have produced some sterling men in those areas. the problem is, fraternity, a way to think of this them is a badly managed franchise. if you go to mcdonald's in cleveland, it looks like the big mac in l.a. sigma chi can be factastic on one campus and if you will of criminal behavior on another. there is no way of knowing how these different chapters aresponding to the law and risk policies. >> you mentioned a leading lawyer telling you froths are the largest industry in this country directly involved in the provision of alcohol to under aged people and that that creates all sorts of issues of liability that can stretch to the parents of kids involved even. >> well, this is one reason i

would love for parents who have sons thinking of joining fratern at this to read this he is say in the atlantic. sometimes they think maybe something will go wrong with the fraternity but he will have insurance because every fraternity member buys big insurance policies but the minute he does something wrong, he is usually thrown out from the fraternity and these huge settlement are paid out of the parents' homeowners insurance. if he needs a lawyer, no insurance policy is going to get you a lawyer for civil defense of this kind. his parents are going to have to pay for him to get a lawyer. there is a lot of expenses that fall on the parents' shoulders if things go wrong. >> as you say, rebellion has been a part of fraternity since they began. what do you say to people in no way trying to minimize the incidents that have happened that this is about adults forgetting to be kids and that we are overreacting? >> well, i think you have two issues here. one is we do have helicopter parents who are much more involved with their kids in college than they were, say 30

years ago and that's part of why we are finding out more of what's going on fratern at this. these aren't the rough knocks of growing up. this is a long history of sexual assault, of death, of violent hazing, of psyche lock cal trauma and if these things happened in any other college group, if all of the frfrming club members were having these kinds of problems, the whole current tree would get behind figuring out what's going on at the french club for whatever reason, fraternities get a pass in an awful lot of very dangerous incidents happening to otherwise healthy young kids beloved by their parents, sent off at great expense to college and sometimes coming home terriblely brutalized sdmrfrp the dark power of fraternities, catlin flanigan, great to have you on the show? >> thank you. >> the show may be over. the conversation continues on aljazeera.com/considerthis or on our facebook or google plus pages. we wi we will see you next time.

this is al jazeera. argentina in doha and in london, this is "the newshour." coming up in the next 60 minutes, a new truce. a signed deal with the government paving the way for early elections. al shabaab fighters claim responsibility for a suicide attack on the presidential. with the latest from europe including western europe's last