tv Inside Story Al Jazeera February 21, 2014 5:00pm-5:31pm EST
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once again for more on these stories go to www.aljazeera.com. that is www.aljazeera.com. next is "inside story." >> after days of confrontation and death in kiev's independent square the ukrainian government and opposition have a deal. a deal that promises to end the violence and begin political reform. that's the "inside story." >> hello, i'm ray suarez. maybe the terrible days that proceeded the deal got both
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sides' attention in ukraine. without that deal more violence, more death, and an armed crackdown looked like the next steps. instead there is an agreement. the leaders of the political opposition shaking hands with the ukrainianpresident viktor yanukovych. on this program a closer look at the deal ending the stand off at least for now and the nagging question are the desires and demands of the two sides in this deeply divided country so mutually contradictory that it's hard to imagine an outcome that gives all of the parties enough what have they want, enough of what they need to create a solution to the current crisis. let's start with this update. >> the streets are quiet in kiev as the country digests the deal that ended the crisis for now. the government and the opposition greed to a six-point settlement that includes the promise of presidential elections by the end of the year. protesters are approaching the
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news with cautious optimism. >> i think it was all very predictable. he has no other choice but to go for early elections because people who felt force to take his action deserve a better life and better president and i think new elections will help us build a new country that will be closer to europe and closer to the people. >> i think yanukovych was forced to do t but i would not trust him any way after what he did to the country. not just him but all those who are with him. they won't honor any deal. that's why i would not trust them either. we have to pressure every day for him to do what he greed. the west cannot pressure him. >> brokered by foreign ministers from poland, germany, france, and a special envoy from russia. >> we're very grateful and happy at the same time we could contribute to settle the situation and to better pave the
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way now for a political solution, which is now in the hand of the ukrainians. >> president viktor yanukovych offered a series of concessions. under the kneel will be the restoration of the your cranan constitution of 2014 and formation of a national unity government within ten days. >> the president has made unprecedented steps without any conditions and with the only desire in mind to stop bloodshed, to bring calm and peace to ukraine. >> an investigation into week's violence will be conducted by monitoring authorities representing both sides of the fighting at independent square and throughout the country.
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>> we are launching an international investigation into all the crimes committed in ukraine. anyone guilty will be prosecuted. no one will escape justice for killing peaceful people. >> the government agreed not to impose a state of emergency as long as both parties refrain from violence. protesters must withdraw from government buildings and city parks like independent square, ground zero for opposition protests. russian reaction to the deal is unclear but repeated the assertion that radicals were behind the bloodshed and they bear full responsibility. caught in the middle of a geopolitical tug of water between russia and the east and e.u. to the west the ukrainians began their protests in november when the government rejected the west and agreed to help from
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russia. pro reform members spoke over it today. >> it's challenging, and we need to support the ukrainian people to implement this agreement. the ukrainian agreement, and it should be up employmented by them and we will support them doing that. >> this latest calm sits on the razor's edge as all sides stand by waiting to see if the words by paper and confirmed by handshake seals a peaceful resolution. for more on this situation in kiev following the negotiated settlement we're joined by al jazeera's nick schifrin. i lost count of how soo of how d downs there have been since november. does this show signs of being the real thing?
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>> reporter: well, ray, i think this is very different. 36 hours ago only a few hours after which we had about 60 or 70 protesters according to the protesters killed by police snipers, yes, this is a deal of the political leadership has signed not only the president but also the opposition. however, the people behind me, some 50,000 people who are in their fourth hour of a candlelight vigil fo for a dozen young when they were manning the front line, the molotov cocktails, the knives that they have in their belts, they do not think this is a truce. they think its just buying time for a president that they believe is corrupt, and they do not support and they will not leave this square until he leaves immediately in the presidency or, in fact, some of them are calling for him to be tried or perhaps murdered.
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there is still a lot of anger on the streets. the leadership is trying to quell this anger, and taking to make sure that that handshake holds but it's not clear that people on the street want that. >> there is a great deal of mistrust, a great deal of his tans in believing the assurance of the government. but if the situation physically de-escalating. are the fires out, are some of the barricades moved back? are some of the crowds of police that we've seen prisonneling with riot weapons and all that stepping back from the civilians and you know, building down this crisis, this confrontation? >> i think it's a great point. if you look at the police and the violence that comes from the government forces, yes, that has calmed down.
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>> there is some concern among the protesters, their snipers, but you can't see them or feel any of them. however, the protesters are a different story. not a single brick has been taken down from some of those front line for the an any--fortifications. not a single person has withdrawn from some of those fortification that is look like a set out of les miz. as you suggest, if the police aren't at all inciting any kind of violence or presence even then yes the protesters may begin to pull back. but right now they have no intention to, and right now
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there are some still 50,000 people in independent square still calling for a revolution and still calling for the president to step down immediately. >> there was talk of the violence moving to other parts of the country notably to the western city of lvev which is heavily ukrainian speaking, very close to the polish border, are things calming down in other parts the country? >> it does seem so, and again it depends on where it is, and we're getting sketchy reports from some places. ukraine is a bridge from the west to the east. you say it right, in the west we have a lot of people who are much closer to europe in the east. people who are closer, feel closer to russia. and so in the west what we've seen are police literally handing over the keys to their buildings to some of the protesters. i was in this square early today as the group of about two dozen police were the western ukraine walked in and were hailed as
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heroes. turned themselves in and gave a press conference about lou all police should turn themselves over to the protesters. in the east we don't quite have that situation. in fact, there is a lot of tension still between the protesters and the police and governmental forces. a lot of people in the west here waiting to see how it plays out here. i think that's what we'll see in the next 24-48-72 hours as this square clears or doesn't clear. as the violence stops or doesn't stops along these front lines just a few hundred people from me. that's when we'll see the west and the east and they'll pick up the violence or calm down as well. >> nick schifrin reporting live from central kiev. we're going to take a short break. when we come back more on the deal that diffuses this crisis, and the diplomatic dueling and pressure brought from the west
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>> welcome back to inside story. i'm ray suarez. the cycle of violence and protest in ukraine is overfor now. foreign ministers of france, germany and poland and special representative from russia helped broker the deal between the opposition and the government. joining us now t are poland's ambassador to the united states. from massachusetts, argu margara professor of relations at seton hall. and mr. williamson served as senior director for european affairs at u.s. national security couple. mr. ambassador. let me start with you. your country was one of several involved in creating this deal.
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what were the interests at stake? did the two sides walk up to the brink and maybe get scared by what they saw coming from ukraine? >> first of all, than thank your inviting me. it's a great opportunity to talk about probably the most important issue right now not only in europe, but also in the whole world. the future of europe is there in ukraine. that's the way we think, and the basis for that conviction is that we hav we understand bettee ukrainians than any others. and what the ministers from the european union, germany, france, poland, met in kiev first of all was strongly divided political scene amid distrust between the parties, and even more on the
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one side the opposition leaders and the people of midon who naturally are very emotional as we all probably would be after the killing of the people that they witnessed. i come back in my memory in those moments when we declared to win poland, and i'm sure we would be reluctant to accept any deal at first instance, but we did. we came to common sense, to the agreement, to the consensus, and today poland can say it was the right way. oh so that is why we show poland with example a good path for the ukrainians to take. >> professor, you're listen together polish ambassador talking about the role his country played in brokering this peace. isn't russia trying to avoid
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another poland? poland was closely aligned with the soviet union, now it's solidly aligned with the west. isn't it trying to make sure that ukraine doesn't go the way of poland? >> well, we can look at this question in a variety of ways. certainly we can look at it from political perspective, but that's not the only perspective. certainly russia and russian leaders have been very worried about the possibility of quote/unquote losing ukraine to the european union. losing ukraine from membership in the eurasian economic community that moscow is building. this is an important part of the questions. we can talk more about that in a moment if you wish, but i want to emphasize that it is not in russia's interest that there would be ukraine. in that perspective it is in
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russia's interest that this agreement has been signed, and it is in russia's interest that this agreement would succeed. yes, mr. putin is worried about ukraine building closer ties with european union. some in russia disagree with him. some in russia believe an ukraine that is more closely allied with the west will force russia to, itself, transform into are a more democratic society, and more economically competitive society. i understand that the putin division is different, but at this moment if we talk specifically about this deal it is also in russia's interest. it is not in russia's interest that there is chaos in ukraine. >> not in russia's interest that there be chaos in ukraine, mr. wilson. chaos is pretty close. >> i think that is the case.
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i think we came within 4 hours of ukraine turning into an outright civil war, thinking about a war raging on the borders of poland. and i think part of what did happen-- >> i want to stop you right there. for some that may sound like hyperbole. that it would stop if it was really a threat, and wouldn't be allowed to go on. but just a little over a decade ago we had big civil wars in the balkans, and that may have been unthinkable, too. >> we saw yanukovych trying to bring order, if you will, back to kiev. the reality is he didn't have an use of force option. the president had lost the royalty of the regence across the ukraine. if he wanted to go down the path of using violence in a sustained way it would have led to
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outright warfare. we came close and we're tremendously grateful to the leadership pickerly you polish democratic leadership, the germans and the french to divert this. i think you saw the kremlin come together realization that they probably bet on the wrong horse, and this was going to lead to a defeat to russian interest if they stuck by him. i think that's what forced the president's hand and foreclosed his option. this is not a man who wants to compromise. he ran out of options as his power base began to crumble. >> but russia is not going to sit by and was watch ukraine drt out of its orbit, is it? >> it won't. this is something of utmost importance if not existential to
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president putin itself. this broke out in november precisely because of russian pressure forcing president yanukovych to abandon two years of negotiations for the european union to turn on a dime and drop the agreement. that's what provoked this in the first place. even as you see the tactical change from moscow to day a to . over the next days, weeks and months you'll find what power base can help russia going forward going into a new election, an election that president yanukovych could not be a viable candidate. >> that's where we'll come back. what is next for the ukraine? can the yanukovych government succeed handing off power to another elected government, and what are the different players in this game going to do? what are their bottom lines in
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>> welcome back to "inside story." i'm ray suarez. on this edition of this program the road to settlement of political violence. ended early this morning when europe and russia brokered a deal. if it all holds we could see a new unity government in the next two weeks and new elections by the end of the year. professor, part of the agreement hammered out overnight was to go back to the 2004 constitution. why is that significant? >> that is significant because the return to the 2004 constitution, which of course was the result as well as the compromise, the return to th the 2004 constitution mines a decrease in presidential power, and it means a turning back of the wave of misuse of power, or
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the hope that it would be the end of misuse of power that has characterized the yanukovych presidency. there is a hope to return to the 2004 constitution will turn ukraine into something closer to a parliamentary system that would allow for a much more balanced power between the president and the parliament. and let's remember that little by little, piece by piece from hiliberation and march 2010 president yanukovych has been chipping away at the various constitutions in the ukraine not totally in terms of the power of the parliament, but the independence of the judicial system, the independence of regional governments. this change or return to 2004 constitution is crucial. but if it's not simply a question of formal governance. you need to have also a return
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to the 2004 constitution. many things that yanukovych has done, much of the damage he has done to the ukrainian body of politics and the trust of the ukrainian society goes above and beyond the question of constitutional responsibility of the president. yes, the return to 2004 constitution is key, but it has to be more than that. there has to be a credible hope for ukrainian society that the abuse of power they have seen not only in the hands of the president but also of the police, the corruption they have seen in the judiciary will be reduced. >> let me go to damon wilson on that point. by definition given the state of play in the ukraine does the reduction of presidential power mean a reduction of russian influence? >> for now it does, but i think the equation is much more
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complicated than that. the russians don't rely on one source of leverage in the ukraine. the natural gas relationship is a structure between russia and ukraine is a sort of leverage over the country, and frankly because of the corruption it brings controls political actors. you see russian action outside of kiev, after the visit of a russian envoy earlier this week, a couple of days later you have leaders talking about concession, and it's very dangerous. i don't think it's quite as simple as that. the russians have a strong presence throughout the country, and a range ever tools they can play on. >> mr. ambassador if you look at a map of who voted for who in the last elections, the western ukrainian speaking parts of the country voted overwhelmingly against viktor yanukovych, and the eastern russian speaking parts of the country voted
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overwhelmingly for him. that split has not gone away just because they've worked out this deal. >> as history is playing its role in a contemporary world. if we look back we can see centuries of differing developing parts of what this day is ukraine. there are things that are common, of course. these are the ukrainians who will decide the future of the country. but of course the history will play an important role, and also the different kind of development we're talking about having the east, more friendly for business and western way of the way people think. but let me share information with our viewers which goes-to-your first question, which is at the beginning of the
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negotiations there wer there we0 portions of the attacks. degrees have won, a successful story. more over two hours only the parliament needed to approve a new--the change in the constitution, there are very promising signs on the political side, and also what the minister said in today's conference is very important role of the russian envoy, that is something. let's hope that the russians are more realistic. they understand that the previous policy led to the clash and revolution and probably the
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bloodshed, which has gone much farther than we have seen quite recently. >> that brings us to time to forebreakto--i'm sorry. is this the end of the show? we're out of time. i didn't get time to talk about a very important part of this conversation. we'll have to get to it again in the future. thank you very much for being with us, professor, damon wilson, mr. ambassador, thank you. the conversation continues. we want to hear what you think about the issues on this or any day's show. log on to our facebook page or accepted us your thoughts on twitter. our handle aj inside story am or reach me directly at ray suarez news. we'll see you for the next "inside story" in washington, i'm ray suarez.
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