follow us on twitter, or www.aljazeera.com. for news throughout the day head on over to our website. ways day it's the inside story. >> hello, i'm ray suarez. it probably wouldn't rock your world to hear the kids who go to school in richer school districts have better equipped and better staffed schools . course offerings, teacher training, new scholarship also

shows the disparities that plague minority kids especially throughout their lives start at the very begin of their educational careers with black kids suspended in the young er grades three times as often as their white classmates. here's more on what researchers found. >> the idea of suspending and expelling kids who are four is just stunning to me. >> secretary of education arnie duncan and attorney general erik older went to an elementary school in washington, d.c. to announce the results of a sweeping study. highlighting inequality in the nation's schools. it starts early and it starts with discipline. black children make up just 18% of the preschoolers in the country, and yet are 42% of the children suspended in school at least once. you probably didn't think preschoolers were being suspended from school. the attorney general tried to explain. >> i think a lot of it has to do

with who we are as a society. there are certain pre-conceptions that people have about kids of color. they are perceived in certain ways. there are kids who engage the kinds of things that children normally do. that can sometimes be misconstrued if you view a child with a pre-conceived notion about that child. we have to break through that. it means we have to train our teachers in ways that they are sensitive to cultural differences. >> cultural differences aside discipline management problems in america's public education system span the grade levels and have lasting repercussions. >> we know there is a correlation between doing out of school suspensions and expulsions and locking kids up, and folks don't like it when we talk about it, but there are far too many communities where the

school to prison pipeline is real. the fact that it starts at four is simply not good enough. >> reporter: despite the efforts of the obama administration and previous administrations, access to public preschool remains limited. about 44% of public school districts don't have preschool. the report secretary duncan and holder talked about today was conducted by the education departments civil rights unity taking data from the 2011-2012 school year representing 49 million students in 16,500 school districts. the report showed a wide racial disparity among high schooler 's access to math and science. 81% of asian students and 71% of white students had access to algebra, calculous, biology, chemistry and physics. in decision the minority

students are much less likel moo be taught by first year teachers. >> for the first time we now identify patterns of educational inequality for certain sub groups of students. >> reporter: in his 2015 budget president obama asked for $69 million. nearly 90% of that money goes to funds to address the needs of disadvantaged, poor and minority students, students with disabilities and english language learners. >> joining us to discuss the department of education's new report on racial disparities in the classroom we turn to leticia smith evans, the director of education practice. she's also a former elementary schoolteacher. the chief operator officer and director of research at equation

for change. a non-profit initiative to improve stem education. barbara, the deputy executive director of the national association for the education of young children, and in new york the proffer of education at new york university. professor, let me start with you in new york. does this just add statistical rigor to something that you might have suspected already? >> yes. we've known for many years that the disparities and achievement. the so-called achievement gap that we've heard about over the years is really about opportunities to learn . that poor children particularly poor children of color, african-american children especially are attending under resourced schools in large measure where they don't have access to basic resource essential for learning. it's good to hear the secretary speak to it. i'm surprised it has taken so

long. we've known for many years that these issues have been present and we know they have impact our learning outcomes and exacerbate the drop out rates and low student performance. >> when so many black and brown students go to school in large metropolitan districts why are those disparities of resources it are there if inside an la unified or chicago public schools or new york city board of ed. everybody is getting roughly the same captation whether you're in a tough neighborhood in the bronx or gentry flying areais areaish{^l" ^}. >> there needs to be a focus on leadership on equity and resources. in new york city alone there is 20,000-dollar to $30,000 gap in

teachers in salaries between the bronx and staten island because the bronx hires more new teachers and there is a higher turnover. what we should be doing is provide incentives for experienced teachers with a track record of effectiveness to work in high need areas and pay them for to do so. those policies have impact on academic outcome. >> let's would we see outcomes that are very different if we go into high poverty light areas in east tennessee or the northern counties of maine or counties in west virginia that have very low per pupil spending? >> what i can say is that at ldf we litigate a fair number of cases in the south. i can tell you when we're in these school districts oftentimes we see the same disparities even when the entire

district is a title one district or poor district. when we look at predominantly african-american school and predominantly white school we can see disparities on the surface even the facilities look wholly different. when we talk about resources such as text books they are also different. we have received numerous complaints where students in predominantly african-american schools have to share a text book in the classroom. they cannot take their textbook home. when we look at predominantly white school, he those students take their text books home. we see the same situation with respect to the school facilities over all. >> how do you explain that? how do you understand that? is it a legacy of old practices? >> we think there is the segregation at one point and that has been outlawed but we see the remnants of that system. in men thanks we have seen today. and this is systemic racism. that's part of it. and as the doctor said we need

to look at how we can really take a look at this and apply new standards to this. and look at the data, and make a determination about what needs to be done. >> barbara, the part of the research that is getting the most play if you turn on the radio all day, if you look at the wires and websites, is this discipline of younger children? now, i have to tell you i was surprised at the number of kids getting suspended at all, and not surprised at the disparity, what is going on in those numbers? >> i think many people are surprised to see how high the number is, and the disparity particularly for black boys. i think you have to rethink of how schools are organized today, and in many cases the way they're set up is not conducive to all boys, and particularly boys of color. the increasing expectations for academic achievements that begin

as early as preschool, the expect station that children will sit credits cross apple sauce, which is crossing the legs, sitting still, listening to a teach predominantly in ways that many young boys find difficult to control their bodies. this thanksgiving isn't just the case for boys. >> but putting more and more of america's kids in classrooms at three and four years old. that's where the trending is going. that's what state governors are announcing as new innovation. should we be shaping the instructional day to the kid rather than the kid to the instruction? >> my association the national association for children there are what we call developmentally appropriate practices that understand that children under three and four learn differently than children who are nine, ten, eleven, even then children learn

best when they're actively engaged and the curriculum is meaningful to them. you have to understand that each child is unique, and that individual--the individual variations that occur developmentally occurs within cultural context. understanding the cultural practices and expectations very often there is the real disconnect between the teacher who expects children to sit quietly and listen to her as opposed to being more actively engaged. >> we'll talk more about that later in the program. because those cultural expectations and whose coming through the door and in what state of preparedness to learn are also key aspects of this conversation. we get to you, claus, later in the students' career. what are the differences when you walk through the door of a high school somewhere in america, what are the new stats telling us about what you expect

to find in a minority school versus a mostly white school? >> well, what it's telling us is really pretty shocking. go to a school that serves predominantly minorities, and you find that they don't have access to the same kinds of courses. why that is important is courses like physics, like calculous, like courses mentioned earlier on are gateways to you opportunity later on. >> so colleges look for them. >> they look for them. it help sets student up for success for college. and they can create a glide path for what we call stem field. they are in high demand that pay well, they're doorways to opportunity. >> but also require a little bit of rigor from the student that signals that they're ready to take on harder work, too. even if you're not going to become

a technologies of some sort. >> those who have taken those classes have signaled to the world around them that they're ready for all kinds of things. this is a barrier to opportunity that shows in many ways the nation is not making good on its founding ideals. >> we're going to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk more about this latest research from the department of education and what it tells us about the act of going to school in the united states. this is inside story.

>> welcome back to inside story. we're talking about a new report released by the department of

education office for civil rights from discipline in preschool to access to advance classes in high school, the report shows a wide gap between white and minority students. and you heard secretary of education arnie duncan earlier talking about the need of having brutally honest conversations. are we ready, leticia smith evans to have those conversations, and let's use the example of a classroom of 24-year-olds or 23 and a half-year-olds in it, and you see the numbers that--they're just being punished and dealt with in a different way. we want to know why. we have to understand why. time for the brutal conversation. what's going on in that classroom? >> i can say that i think we've been ready for the conversation. time has long since past, and we're grateful that they have recently released their discipline guidance and this data collection should be looked

at as a blessing to everyone all the public, really. now we know what is going on inside schools. when we have these classrooms with the 24-year-old that is you described we can start to figure out what we can do so that doesn't happen again next year. >> if you are finding many more kids of one type are being suspended than another, does that tell us more about the teacher than the kids or about school readiness on the part of the families that are sending these four-year-olds through the door. >> i think it tells us a lot aboutty education system, and that people need to understand in order to educate students that it takes almost a village. that's what they say. this is not about teachers in the classroom. every one needs to be a part of a school community whether it's teachers, parents, principals, teachers, really, they need to be able to communicate, figure out collectively how to address these issues. >> barbara, that same question. what is that telling us when those disparate numbers come in.

is there a view when a teacher looks out at that classroom that plaque boys really have to be taken in hand. that they understand a certain type of tough discipline and it's different than the other children. >> at some level that is happening, there is disparity in terms how teachers view behaviors. teachers will look at the play of african-american boys different-than other children. we need to help teachers understand that some of their behaviors may have racially influenced. i think the broader issue about how--what the school expectations are is also really much a part of this. some interesting work that has been done by a project called "first school" is helping teachers assess how they spend their time with students, and it's finding that across the board children are expected to stand in line, you know, stand

straight in line, be quiet, again, the notion that sitting quietly and if you help teachers see exactly how much time is spent in those sort of behavioral management ways, and help them define activities and allow children to be active and engaged and learning the appropriate curriculum they can be much more successful. one of the more important lessons in preschool, kindergarten and first grade is for children to feel that they can be successful in school. and for them to see other children of their own race be successful. we don't want children thinking this is not a place for me. i can't be successful. that's the message too many children are hearing, particularly boys of color. >> is this a trickle down zero tolerance? >> i think it's some of that. it's also some of what we already heard about teachers misinterpreting the behavior of children. but the most consistent pattern we see in schools is that it is the children with the greatest

needs who get the disproportionate punishment. we see children with learning disabilities, children in group homes and children who are homeless who are getting most of the discipline and are excluded from school entirely. some principals will tell you that they suspend because they lack other tools. many schools need a social wor worker and child psychologist, resources to address the needs that children bring with them to school, needs of poverty and neglect. we need a different approach in responding to our children's needs particularly in our most dispressed communities. >> it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that some of these same kids will also carry with them tremendous social costs down stream. that if we spend more money now and redesign their early childhood experience we can save a lot of money. >> absolutely. and it's far more effective to inter convenient early.

this is why preschool is important, provide the support early. but we need to provide the support to the schools. there are many schools overwhelmed by the needs of the children and putting the pressure on the schools is not a strategy. that's what i think we've seen from too many policymakers. we need to step back, look at the data and ask have we given these children and the schools the tools they immediate to be successful, and in many cases we haven't. >> claus, the way that kids' school careers are put together in a lot of cities in this country, if you're in an under resourced high school, it's likely you went to an under resourced middle school and elementary school, and if this is not too much of a stress you're also getting punished disproportionately, too. are we setting up these kids. >> the thing that is so

troubling about the data even students who show every sign of being successful, students of color, are then not some how being passed into the kinds of pathways and trajectories that would give them the greatest chance of success later on. for example, there might be the kids who aren't being punished, they're not being taken out of the classroom, they're doing quite well and high achieving in fifth grade, students of color, who in eighth grade are much less likely to take algebra than their white or asian counterparts. and there are classrooms with teachers who don't have the supports they need. the data shows us this. teachers of students that are much more likely not to be supported. they're newer teachers, and they're not getting the curricula materials that they need to be successful. it might than you don't have enough kids who are prepared to take that calculous class.

some high schools struggle trying to offer classes to which they don't have kids. >> we're going to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk more about the report, but also how to answer these terrible discrepancies that have shown up in the numbers. this is inside story. stay with us. >> join us on consider this... >> president jimmy carter joins antonio mora >> my administartion has a very strong human rights element. >> his perspective on the conflicts facing the world in the state of america. on al jazeera america

>> this is the real deal man... >> welcome back to "inside story." i'm ray suarez. we're continuing our conversation now on the discrepancies in american public education. and with us throughout this program claus, barbara, leticia, and pedro. you've been trying to get them to stop doing the things that get us to these numbers. is that how we're going to work our way out of this? what has to change to change those numbers? >> well, i think that we have certainly scratched the surface with respect to this data.

i think we need data from every classroom, not just from the school. we need to know where we have problems. are there teachers who need extra help or extra professional development so they are not what i consider to be discriminating against certain students based on skin color or disability or english learner status. we've going to deep, and schools must have the resources but they've got to be encouraged to collect data and collected often especially now that we know this is a serious problem. >> pedro, there are probably people watching this program across the country saying oh, no, here we go, they're going to want more money. is that a lot of it, some of it, all of it, what is it that we need now? >> well, you know, this year we recognize the 60s anniversary of the brown decision. what people should keep in behind that although the supreme court called for an end to

racial segregation there has not been that much progress. we have several students going to school in schools that are effectively segregated be, and we spend bid a large the least amount of money to educate the poorest kids in the country. we need to be looking at the opportunity to learn, and ask ourselves have we put the resources in place that give children that chance to be successful academically? i think in many cases not just black or latino children, there are many white children as well who are being denied these learning opportunities, and we pay a toll for it. a large large number of people who are not able to get jobs. it is an investment in our future, that's what we need to recognize. >> claus, you have to come at this work, i'm guessing because i'm watching it from the outside, convinced that these gaps can be closed.

we're not talking about kids no matter what you do with them or for them, they're always going to lag behind. >> absolutely. you know, change the equation since what we are is a partnership of major businesses that are really focused on improving education, science, technology and mathematics. we have a particular perspective on this. not only can it be changed, it has to be changed. it's a moral issue and an economic issue. about 30 years i think we're going to be a minority majority country. it means that we have a huge portion of the workforce. we need all hands on deck. all the skills that we can get that won't necessarily be prepared to size the opportunities in front of them. the way that it can be changed is through lots of support. you can actually create and we've seen this in schools and districts where it's been very successful. you can create a set of supports for teachers and for students to help them bring much more

challenging classes into the schools and ensure that that opportunity succeeds: it's had dramatic results. it requires commitment, money, investment, in ways that we haven't been able to commit so far. >> quickly, barbara, before we go, i guess a different set of priorities. if we still argue about money we don't think it's as important as other things. >> we need more investment and more recognition and support for every child. every child can learned a must be por supported to be an effective learner. >> that brings us to the end of this edition of "inside story." in washington, i'm ray suarez.

>> good afternoon, and welcome is to al jazeera america. i'm morgan radford live in new york city. here are the stories we're following for you right now. a tense stand off russian tanks on the outside and ukrainian troops on the inside. that in an air base in crimea. another hazy satellite image directs the latest search for the missing malaysian airliner. plus ho how the drought in brazl will affect your next trip to the coffee shop.