off papua new guinea, booug anville island. more details as the information rolls in. you can always keep up to date with all the latest news on the website. that is on aljazeera.com. story. hello, i'm ray swarez. three big countries three big economies. nafta looks at the trade between with the u.s. and canada, and said let's get rid of the barriers.

how has the creation of the trade zone works not only for americans but for mexicans and canadians as well? we in the united states tend to look at nafta from a specifically american point of view what with did it do to employment, investment, manufacturing. we talk less it seems about what a pope and paperworker in quebec, auto worker, a grocery shopper, or edmonton, makes of this landmark change in trade law. helped pry open markets in a time when defense in

its infancy. today nafta produced $17 trillion annually. some that praise it say it is great in a global market. deepens deficits and helps sovereignty. i sat down with one of the original negotiator toes former trade ambassador, for her thoughts on the treaty she helped right and it's impact today. what did all of the partners have that the others thought it would be useful? are there things about mexico, canada, that made them a good fit for a trade relation with the eyes?

is trade minister approached me, and we began to talk about how our two economies could work more efficiently together. and at that moment, mexico was highly restricted. we wanted that market. it was only when the rumor got out that we got a phone call from canada saying wait an't many. you just finish add trade agreement with us, you are going to leave us out of this? now that we are at ratification plus 20, is the average american better off. >> i believe when with you take an average figure, there can be no

question about it, that our nation has expanded it's gdp, there are studies that show that the opening of trade generates household wealth. that we have become much more competitive globally. that we have achieved is tremendous specialization as a result of our inner connectivity. but most of the people that criticize focus on mexico. and they focus on has this been good for americans. and i point out that 14% of our total world exports go to mexico. that's more than what we sell to all the rest of latin america. more than what we sell is

to great britain, germany, france, and the netherlands combined. it is more than we sell to the so called brazilians, the russians, the indians and the chinese. s in a great market, so is is nafta good? you bet it was. >> when you into a wall marx, a target, a similar store, much of what you shop from is made elsewhere on the planet. history teaches us you destroy their self-respect, their pride, and their dignity. >> what has occurred in the two decades since

nafta took effect, is globalization. and so is we are much more interconnected as a world. jobs are moving around. as products are moving around. when i had my last year in office, i would go on the floor of a facility, and it was teaming with people. screwing in bolts here, you went on an auto factory floor and you stumbled over people. today you go on an auto factory floor, i don't care whether that factory is is in the united states, japan, or china, there's nobody there. it's done by technology. take your mind back to 1992. you probably didn't have a laptop in your briefcase.

and so we didn't deal with the digital issues telecommunications issues. those are issues that we need to deal with. >> recent negotiations to cuss on beck chill property. if the agreement is signed it would encompass close to 40% of the world's gross domestic product. joining us are the ambassador of can do to the quite, and mexico's ambassador to the quite, eduardo nadine know.

gentlemen welcome. is nafta popular in canada? >> it is very popular. trade is extremely popular, and i think that for our purposes when we are here in washington we point out that canada is quite's largest customer, we buy more goods from the united states than the whole european union put together, so i think sometimes we talk about trade agreements in abstract terms. we have to be i think more effective in talks as customers of each other as well as sellers to each other. if we stop and ask someone in edmonton, does nafta work out for you. >> they may have different opinions.

you will have divided. s i'm sure you can get people in an interview that would be skeptical of nafta, and people that would be very positive. most of the canadian public believe that trade with the united states and mexico is good for our economy, and food for our neighborhood. same questions is nafta popular in mexico? >> i think it is very popular. i think that after 20 greers what we have achieved in terms of trade with canada and the u.s., what with we have achieved in terms of integrated at the very deep level, the value added chain. because we actually trade a lot with each other, we are the second largest customer of the u.s. as the ambassador was with saying. and we -- this is something which is normally taking for granted.

we sell a lot of the u.s., of course. in jobs depend on how much mexico buys from the u.s. many u.s. jobs depends on how much canada buys from the u.s. and we with have figures out to build together, and smart together here in this market, as well as to the rest of the world. does that answer depend on where you are in the country? if i am on a farm that used to grow corn, would a farmer tell me that and a half facilities has been a great deal? >> i think it is from opening the market, has changed the way we price corn. and within the national pricing going up for different reasons this is a come mossty. and we have an open market. so farmers growing corn are doing much better.

and certainly all sorts of vegetables. and we buy. meat, and poultry, and we sell, of course, a lot of products so we in that sense, have eventually come to a very balanced beneficial approach on both sides. >> we are going to take a short break, when we return, we will continue this rare joint interview with the mexican ambassador to the united states, and the canadian ambassador to the united states. nafta at 20 with today on inside story, stay with us.

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>> it's been 20 years since the enact amount of nafta. it created a vast free trade zone and on this edition we are marking this anniversary >> with a closer look at the immaterial packet on our neighbors. we are joined with the ambassador to the u.s., and canada's ambassador to the u.s., gary. did nafta becomeless important, and that is the rise of china? did china end up being a blare in a way that we couldn't have imagined? when this trade deal was being worked out, and i know this had a big impact. >> originally the first two or three years of

nafta, the manufacturing activity in mexico was really booming. and then an uninvited guest appeared into the room and that was with china. and a lot of. >>ing went away from the region, and now amazingly, our total costs of production in the region has gone down to a very competitive level. in 2001, mexico had 271% wage differential with china. today the less than 10%. in terms of opportunity costs we are very competitive. so we with are getting back many new investments that are now seeing north america, mexico, of course, but as i said, ins a shared production team. does that change the conversation with americans in because for a long dime, that ross per row talk, about the giant sucking sound, a

lot of jobs did leave, they didn't get to mexico, they went to china. >> they did, and now they are coming back. in that sense, and of course the only silent sucking sound we hear in mexico is u.s. -- is mexicans actually consuming u.s. products and canadian products. so this is a totally different approach. has a manufacturer has the same as one in michigan or ohio. >> yes, they have had a lot of the same pressures. partly based on technology, and the changes in technology. partially based on some outsourcing to countries. like china. if you go to a boeing plant in my old province,

the technology, the kind of skills and the people you need and the training that has to go their jobs is quite different than what it was 20 years ago. we with have is to continue to work on having a predictable intellectual property regime. we have to train people for those skill jobs even though there's less of them, we can do a better job i think in north mesh, training people for those. we can't stand still, we have is to keep moving forward with agility and knowledge of how to best improve in our neighborhood. >>

are they stronger in their efforts to mold on to what they have, is to be competitive than they are as individual countries in. >> well, we are stronger as a neighborhood. that's predictable, affordable, reliable new jersey. when you look at the forms to allow for some private investment, into their oil sector, when you look at thetic vagues, and developments in canada, when you look at the developements in the united states on the energy side, in this neighborhood, of north america, we have an incredible amount of resources, we can question have liability energy standards. how do we continue to work on a sustainable

economy but also a reliable energy economy. it gives us a huge advantage, not only with china but the rest of the world, so i think that's a great realty that we with have today, when the three leaders meet. >> ambassador, your colleague brought up energy resources and that was one with thing that was purposely kept out. and mexico has very jealously guarded it's ability to hold on to the national oil company. as a state enterprise. s that going to change? is that something that's in the interest not only of mexicans but of all north americans to allow more investment? what we are doing is to open the sector for private investment, or domestic and foreign, to actually get licenses, in the territory, to exploit hydrocarbons and of course invest in electricity, and also in the infrastructure needed to actually produce a

lower cost of energy for company doing business will be you see the region, it is not coming from a political statement, it is coming from a market reality, and also from the three countries being blessed by nature. and in this sense, mexico is now looking forward, to get the best use of it's resources, from these reform, which was of course, unthinkable 20 years ago. but as we with said with energy, there are two good moments to plant a tree, 20 years ago, and right now. right now we are planting the tree of structural reforms in order to take the cost of france actions in general down. and this is going to enhance the competitiveness of our shared space, north america. >> we will take a short break, when we come back, a look at the world of the 90's and the turn of

the century that wasn't anticipated and the futures of the mexican, canadian, and american economies. this is inside story. >> on the next talk to al aljazeera... >> i'm antonio mora and this is talk to al jazeera >> award winning documentary director ken burns, talks about his craft, and his latest project on the gettysburg address talk to al jazeera only on al jazeera america

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welcome back to inside story. i'm rare swarez. on this edition, we are, maaing the 20th anniversary of nafta. the north american free trade agreement. the ambassadors to theth united states, from mexico and canada, eduardo ma dino mora, and gary dur. you can never, when you are negotiating a reality, anticipate everything that is going to happen. right now, ambassador, the united states is waiting for a time decision on keystone, you mentioned it in the last segment, a pipeline that will bring canadian energy resources down through the mississippi basin to the gulf of mexico eventually. how come something like that doesn't fall under nafta.

and it doesn't p just fall under the mechanism of nafta to get worked out. >> well, we have about 80% of our trade free as they say on energy, oil is coming down from canada. we have gone from about 19% so called foreign oil with the united states four years ago to 32%. it is just coming down on rail. with high ghes and higher risk. so the debate. >> instead of the pipeline. >> so the debate about a pipeline is not whether the oil is coming down, people allege it won't, but they are wrong. it's a question of how it gets there. we think the safer way to send it the way the state department has

articulated it with their state department report. so we hope science, and merit, makes the final decision on how it gets there. it is getting there. it is getting to the gulf coast, it is just on rail. >> looking back to when nafta was negotiated we had just been a few years since the immigration reform and control act. maz that park of it works out. we are looking at a situation where millions of nationals are living in the united states, there were people that were told wouldn't feel the need to come because things would be so much better in mexico. >> if you see the numbers, actually h flows from mexico from 2010 on are negative. we had more mexicans in 2007 than we do today.

mention call born citizens. and the numbers at the southwest boardner the year 2003, 1.7 million people. in went 12, they apprehended 386,000 people. and i would say a large pore position of them in 2012 -- 2013 are nonmexicans. so in this sense, mexico is not going to be a major source of migrants to the u.s. into the future, because the mexican economy is performing much better, and of course, we are facing the change in a very dramatic way. so in this sense, migration from mexico to the u.s. has been chained from the dynamics on it's own, and of course from the way the mexican economy transforms now. and nafta has a lot to do with with that, in terms of mod certain ocean of own economy, and now with this waive of reforms.

we are positioning reusing barriers of entrance, and releasing transaction costs from small and mid i am side enterprises to profit from the domestic market, and from engaging themselves with these north american equation. it's a more even question? >> you always have lows. you have flows from canada, and this is a tun in that sense is very attractive for immigrants from all over the world, but mexico is not going to be a major source of migrants. >> and one quick question, when i had talked to karla hills about where nafta has come short, she noted the fact that it didn't promise that mexican truck traffic could move

easily, as canadian truck traffic does, we are 20 years into this treaty, what with is going on. >> it is very frustrating. we are moving forward but still not there. of course, we hope that we get those agreements that were really signed and agrees upon in full fours. >> will n nafta be less important, bawl all three will be looking west. >> no, i think the base of principles in the north american trade agreement will become hopefully the base of the time agreement in the tpp agreement with our friends in the asia pacific region.

so that is the key part of the why we are involved in the markets that are in great size for all countries. in the pacific region, there's always offense and defensive issues at any trade table, as you know, and all countries have both offensive positions and defensive positions with each other. those are contains within the spirit and the meaning of our agreement. >> good to talk to you. >> thank you. >> that brings us to the end of this edition of inside story, thank you for being with us, in washington, i'm ray swarez.

>> good morning and welcome to al jazeera america. i'm thomas drayton, let's get you caught up on the top stories of this hour. health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius is resigning. president obama will nominate her replacement friday morning. sylvia mathews burwell, director of office of management and budget. >> a fiery crash in northern california killed at least nine, 100 miles north of sacramento. 35 have been sent to area hospitals. a fed ex truck drifted into traffic, hitting a charter bus with