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it didn't make sense, two ethnic groups were locked in a spas g of blood leading. tensions between the majority hutus, and the minority tutsis burst into full flame. it was not mass murder using modern tools much airplanes, poisonings or automackic wep -- automatic weapons. no, they were killed by people in front of them, taunting them. the world response was slow, disorganised, half-hearted. for 20 years rwandans argued about how and why they killed each other in breath taking numbers, and the world argued about how it was allowed to happen.

welcome back to "inside story", it's been 20 years since word started to get out of rwanda, that something more than garden variety ethnic conflict was occurring. other countries were careful,

oar mealy mouthed to use the word genocide. because use of the word would trigger consequences. the roaming death squads were able to go on with their work. when it was over 800,000 were dead. with us for the rest of the program to look back at rwanda and the 20 years that followed in the washington studio, an independent african policy analyst. from london, ian morley, an attorney who prosecuted the rwandan genocide at the u.n. international criminal tribunalal, and in d.c., peter fome director of the islamic council. when you look back at the '90s, and how the world dithered, is it clear that we'd do something different today? .

. >> if we look back from today, the failure of action, norms have developed. i think there's a question of political will to act when push comes to shove, and there's a question of capacity. a lot remains to be done. >> one thing people forget about this, how it exported destabilization to all the country's around it. the congo, which has been in terrible trouble before and since has really become a permanent home to hundreds of thousands of rwandans. >> that is true. that is one of the aspects that troubles me, it's not just people who fled, but we have had a lot of evidence that paul kagame has his hand in the troubles in the eastern congo for the last 20 years, and the death of

800,000 million rwandans is horrendous. 5 million died in the congo. and also paul kagame enjoys the support of the west. now, he had a fight with the french, because the french supported the government that committed the genocide. he is having the same kind of support, dictator kind of relationship. many of us think a major lesson to learn from the rwandan genocide is powerful countries ought not support dictators, but demoaccuracy in africa. president obama said that. >> jason, you heard the survivor of the genocide, ian morley, you heard our survivor, talking about how everyone understands there is still many, many murderers walking the streets of the country. what was the purpose of the process that you participated in - to just get the big guys, enough of the little guys to

have people see that justice was done. was it symbolic, specific. take us back to the process. >> well, there were two processes going on. there was a process and rwanda, the high court trials, where they processed up to 100,000 people responsible for killing during the course of the 100 day genocide between april and july of 1994. and then the u.n. set up its own tribunal, the international criminal tribunal for rwanda, which sat in tanzania, and that tried those that bore the principle, the cratest responsibility for the events that unfolded there. you'll appreciate that killing a million people in 100 days requires coordination. there were a lot of army and political personalities involved in the process, and the u.n. set

about prosecuting those big fish. the rwandans made is great contribution to bringing many perpetrators to justice. the u.n. did well. there are questions about the cost of the process, the length of the trials, and, i suppose, to some extent, the assistance given to the witnesses who helped in the trials. overall, the two processes, the one in rwanda and one in the tanzania on behalf of the u.n. had positive results. >> cumulative i were they supposed to tell a story not only to rwanda about justice eventually coming, but to the rest of the world so tomorrow's genociders may think twice before trying to do something like this. >> i think there were two things going on. first of all, the ability to create a record which would have withstood some judicial scrutiny, a lot of people had

say about what the record looked like. historically we had a better upping of what happened in -- understanding of what happened in rwanda. the trial processes took a lot of time to work out the detail of what was going on through the entirety of the country. additionally, part of the feature of the trial process was to create accountability. the idea that people who commit these offenses will be brought to book. it's unfortunate that it has to happen after the genocide. it would have been better if we stopped in the first place. the idea of stopping impunity has been a major force in the growth of the international criminal law, and a reason why you see so many tribunals springing up throughout the world in respect of bad things that happened in other countries, for example, like in yugoslavia. what was the point of the process - to create a record and

a measure of accountability. >> ian morley is in london. we'll take a break and when we come back, talk about rwanda today, and how the country pulled it said together.

take a new look at news. welcome back to "inside story." i am ray suarez. we are continuing our

conversation on rwanda 20 years after the genocide in a matter of 100 days back in 1994, 800,000 people were slaughtered. rwandans killing rwandans. still with us , an independent africa policy analyst who served as director of africa action. and ian morley who prosecuted leaders of the ran rawandan genocide. here with us, peter fom, director of the atlantic council's africa center. you mentioned earlier on in the program, nee that paul cocamy is feted but he has pulled the country back together. where do you draw the line between stability and safety, which rwanda has today and democracy, which you also want for countries. >> absolutely. i think that the judgment has to be made that democracy ought to

come first because it is the process by which you make sure you have legitimate leaders but we also have a record, not just in africa. i mean we mentioned our friend in london mentioned yugoslavia. the way we read the history is if you sacrifice democracy for the sake of safety and stability, it clearly shows that it lasts only a little while and it blows up. so when we look at rwanda, we worry that the strong arm of paul cocagamy is causes problems in the congo. he has a spot with one of the strongest countries. he was suspected of killing disidents here that this kind of price -- unquibly he has made progress and brought stability. but history shows the price is too high and it can collapse. it has done so in

yugoslavia picture. >> peter fom? how about that? when the west looks at the great lakes region in east africa, does it see a friend in paul cogamy who is a reliable friend and good for his country? >> i think we have to put rwanda and the greater region in context. 20 years ago, rwanda was the epitome of a failed state. there were judgments that weren't viable as a nation going forward because of population density as well as the genocide. in 20 years, we have had great economic growth. the country has pulled itself together. as you mentioned a, ray, it's one of the safest, most orderly capitols in africa. on the other hand, there are concerns and i think friends of rwanda are -- should freely express those concerns about the political space within the country. the room

for dissent, the room for social expression but we have to take in context, in rwanda aid dollars can be tracked on line. there are governance contracts that every government official has to meet performance metrics or he or she loses their jobs. next door in the democratic republic of congo, we have billions of dollars being lost, unaccountability. so, it's not justifying some of the things that nee has brought up. context. >> let me close with ian morely because you helped preside over a process that put the country back on its feet. can that kind of thing now not happen in rwanda again? did you help create, along with rwandans a better place? >> i don't think it's going to happen again in rwanda. but there are some issues that need to be aired. i do think that the hutu majority have some thoughts

about some of what happened in the aftermath of the genocide. it's not very easy to express politicalcally different opinions in what is otherwise a beautiful country which was running personal. i don't know we know the genocide. i think we made a positive contribution. there are things to talk about in rwanda which aren't being talked about. london. he helped oversee the trials for the rwandan genocide criminals. thanks for joining us. nia and peter quam. thanks for being with us. the program may be over. but the conversation continues. >> we want to hear what you think about the issues raised on this or on any day's show. log onto our facebook page or send us your thoughts on twitter. our handle is ajinsidestoryam or reach me at raysuareznews. we will see you for the next "inside story."

in washington, i am ray suarez. ♪ ... ♪ good afternoon to you. welcome to al jazeera america. i am morgan radford live in new york city. here are the stories we are following for you right now. ukraine's interim president launches what he calls an anti-terror operation as a result of deadly clashes with pro-russian militants. syr syria's government and rebel forces blaming each other for a poisonous gas attack. plus, pot in a vending machine? a colorado merchant turns to technology to help him sell