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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  April 15, 2014 11:30am-12:01pm EDT

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enough to see it. cloud cover stopped a lot of sky watchers from seeing red, from seeing the blood moon. we want to thank each and every one of you for watching al jazeera america. i'm del walters in new york. "inside story" is next. >> can you find the newly proclaimed people's republic of donesk on a map? neither can the ukrainian government, and they would like to keep it that way. russia versus ukraine in the east. it's the "inside story." hello, i'm ray suarez. it didn't end with crimea. as rush consolidates its power
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in the recently absorbed part of ukraine it looks like president vladimir putin's ambitions going further in swallowing up an old territory. grabbing public buildings, proclaiming themselves the new authorities in their parts of the country. the ukrainian government in kiev has threatened an armed response operations. a deadline passed for getting out of the buildings and so far no assault. a goal in turnabout the ukrainian threat. many western governments made it clear they feel that the provocations are backed, supplied, created by russia. the crimean occupation followed by a referendum didn't start to build down tension at this important cross road between east and west.
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>> pre-russian protesters hurl rocks, smash windows and broke into a police station on monday. the protests deified a government deadline to stop the unrest. ukraine's acting president said sunday his military would act against insurgents if they didn't stop. >> the national security defense council made a decision to start a full-scale anti-terrorist operation engaging the armed forces of ukraine. we will not allow russia to repeat the crimea scenario in ukraine. >> reporter: his government has now asked for united nations' peacekeeping forces as pro-russian protests spread to cities throughout eastern ukraine. in donesk protesters occupy the regional administration building as supporters rallied outside. in mariopel hundreds of
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separatists took over the regional building. an shots were exchanged between ukrainian special forces and pro-russian militias. at least one ukrainian security officer was killed and another five were wounded. the security council held an emergency meeting sunday. they said the events of retaliation were kiev's governmental transition, one that doesn't approve. >> we have pointed out on several occasions including in this chamber that the terrible actions lead together coup deforce are threatening once and for all to tear the fragile fabric of the mosaic based society. >> samantha power did not share the russian view. >> we know who is behind this, indeed, the only entity in the area capable of these coordinated professional military actions russia.
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on monday we'll conclude the $1 billion loan guarantee for ukraine. this will benefit all ukrainian people, including minorities. >> it's part of an assistance package aimed to help ukrainian's economic recovery. u.s. secretary treasury jack lew said this in addition to sanctions will show russia must be held accountable for its actions. >> the united states will continue to impose costs on russia for its illegal and illegitimate occupation of crimea and moreover they were fully prepared to impose additional significant sanctions on russia as it continues to escalate in ukraine. >> ukraine is severely in debt. the government said it needs $35 billion to pay its bills in the next two years. plus russian leader vladimir putin said you crane now owes his country $17 billion in gas bills after it's national provider canceled it's previous
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discounts. >> what is the current number one problem? it is that russia can't carry this burden single-handed ly. what is the current number one problem? it is that russia can't carry this burden single-handedly. it is for this reason we have suggested to our european partners and friends that all of us meet as soon as possible and map out methods of support for the ukrainian can economy, that is if you truly care about the well-being of ukraine and truly love the ukrainian nation. >> ukraine may also owe an additional $18 billion in fines written into a 2009 contract. putin has said gas sent to europe through ukraine may be turned off soon if the bills are not paid. representatives of the european union met in luxembourg and announced fresh sanctions against russia.
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>> we have agreed to expand the sanctions the second of sanctions, and to add further names to those sanctions. so we have taken that decision in the council stay. we have stressed the urgency of completing the work on a possible third tier of more far-reaching sanctions should those become necessary and the european commission has assured us that work is almost complete. >> tens of thousands of russian troops are masked along the ukraine border. the international community fears the area's recent unrest could be used as a pretext for invasion. >> president obama had a phone call with russia's vladimir putin reporting about the conversation said the president expressed his concerns that russia was meddling in events in eastern ukraine which putin said was speculation. joining us for a look at the
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escalation in this corner of the former soviet union mark jacobson , anna vasiliyava. and. andre, executive board member for the congress committee of america mark jacobson we open with images of eastern ukraine , who are those people? >> well, it's going to be a mix of people. russians have learned that the military confrontation is best not carried out directly. what i suspect you have there is a mix of russian broughtties, special forces in there agitating ukrainians, pushing them , creating an illusion
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. >> anna, how do you answer those same questions. who are those people standing outside of city hall? >> well, first and foremost they are ukrainian citizens. i really believe if we were to change the discourse a bit linguistically and stop calling those people terrorists as the government in kiev does, or separatists, you know, and call them ukrainian citizen who is are dissatisfied for a number of reasons we could be much more constructive in trying to influence this crisis. >> andre, you just heard anna suggest that perhaps the government in kiev hasn't been doing everything it could to tamp down some of those obvious demonstrations of discontent in the eastern part of the country, is that a fair point? >> are you referring to the government that was put in place after the revolution in an
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interim manner and has only been around for seven weeks? i think we're asking for a little bit much for that government to not only deal with the massive financial crisis that it's dealing with having survived the most corrupt financially corrupt administration in probably the history of the world clue you compare it to some african countries in the 90's, and then you have the silent blitz creed that has taken over crimea, i agree they are russian special forces, russian personnel. we've seen that with the journalists documenting these people who have not only been seen on the ground but on the ground in georgia in 2008. you have mixed in the people who are native of the area, but these tourists and people are calling them, people who have
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been in russia and want to come in and take over donesk. they're being paid a small amount of money to hop on a bus, a van, and they'll be shipped from one protest to another. >> wouldn't they be on their own? isolated, if you will, if there wasn't some popular sentiment in those places that sustains what they're trying to do? even if there are russians mixed in there provocateurs, wouldn't it be hard for sustain that kind of thing if there was no popular sentiment in that part of the country of alienation from kiev. >> i wouldn't say that it's a popular sentiment but there are sentiments like that bred by years and years of infiltration by the russian military. we know yanukovych leaks going through the former compound
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, going through documents that they have system nat . >> this is very old tactic. there is a word for it in russian, this idea that you move people into an area, create instability, and then use the instability as the reason why you're moving in to help bring order. is that not what's going on in this case? >> you know what i'm hearing now mirrors exactly iran propaganda that i heard early in the conflict before the current government came into power. you know the conferenc conversation about c.i.a. agents, provocateurs,
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western support, so on, so forth. again, what we have in our han hands, and as united states citizens i'm concerned with what may transpire there. what we have in our hands is a deep crisis in ukraine. i believe that the focus that the discourse the west has taken to accuse russia of the problems is an easy solution and not a productive solution. you know, we are not looking at what really has been plaguing ukraine for a long time. it's a very complex state. for us not to admit that it's a state that consists of distinctly different parts of the population is just simply not reality. and you're right, ray, when you say all those people cannot be all agents of putin. you know, we see women there, working men, you know, it's a very diverse crowd. again, we're talking about democracy.
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we're talking about people who want to be heard. the united states should be interested in those people to be heard so that every party has a stake in what is ukraine because that's the only solution to moving forward. >> we're going to take a short break. when we come back we'll talk about what moving forward might look like. there is an election coming
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the news, go deeper and get more perspectives on every issue. al jazeera america. >> welcome back to inside story. i'm ray suarez. pro russian groups have taken over government buildings in eastern ukraine on monday european union were coordinating unrest and threatening more sanctions. on this addition of our program we're talking about the rising tensions in eastern ukraine. is what happened in crimea happening again? and what, if anything, can and would the west do about it? now with election approaching, the crowds in some of these cities were chanting referendum.
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and today the government in kiev said we would allow a referendum with the national election. and all ukrainians would allow--would be allowed to choose some new way. is there the potential, mark jacobson, for these elections to settle anything? >> i don't think it would be wise for the current ukrainian government to set up the sort of referendum that could decide--that could set up a situation where you could see a split east and west. what i do think these elections can do is look at the problems that anna has raised. there is a proximity of security that i do believe was instigated from the outside, but over long term the ukrainians have got to show some belief that their government will work towards ridding the institutional ized
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corruption and setting up a government that could be trusted to move forward. >> anna, if the referendum were to move forward, are there certain sectors, certain cities, certain regions that are more valuable where the orientation towards russia is stronger than other places. >> you can only have a referendum to have the entire public vote. it has to be an all-ukraine referendum. we had a gallon lop done that the international public institute released polling people across ukraine, including the south and the east as well as the national democratic institute showing upwards of 70% of people across the entire ukraine are with staying with the motherland. that's their motherland. they're ukrainians. the sentiment expressed on television is a very small population.
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>> anna, when you hear vladimir putin threatening to shut off the gas, not only to ukraine but western europe, is that a threat that comes from a place of strength or one of weakness? wouldn't that also put russia in some ye jeopardy to pull that off. >> well, vladimir putin is threatening to shut off gas if there is no payment. it's capitalism. russians learned capitalism very quickly. so again, i'm just going back to my point that we have to stop distracting ourselves by focusing on the menacing demon of vladimir putin here. we have to look at ukrainian economy. ukrainians are unable to pay for gas. russians are the ones selling that gas. ukrainians cannot be surprised if the russians are upsetting here.
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we have to resolve it peaceful ly caught the constant crisis. we have to sit down to see what russians demand are and what ukrainians can do and how the west can help. if the russians are seeing that ukraine is moving forward--by the way, when we discuss the word referendum, we don't talk about referendum regarding what. ukraine does need constitutional reform. again, the constitutional reform and true legitimacy is the only thing that can hold the country together, and the citizens have to participate in that. citizens cannot become victims of this very fragile government there has to be good will on every par party involved. the russians are prepared to do
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that. we need to stop the rhetoric that takes us away and distract us from the need for a deep reform reconciliation between western ukrainians and eastern ukrainians. the respect to demands to be able to continue to speak russian, the culture of russia to be recognized, and act democratically and then all issues can be resolved. i'm very optimistic as long as the parties are past pragmatic and the rhetoric is not focused on who is the meny, but the rhetoric is focused on what needs to be done immediate. >> i whether or not it's capitalism, we'v we'll save thar another day, but it's certainly hard ball. the threat to cut off ukraine and the threat to cut off the western nations of europe.
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that's two different things. >> that's my concern. it's not just a matter of rhetoric. you take a look at the actions. it's the actions that concern me that they're ratcheting up the pressure not only in terms of ukraine but essentially threatening europe. the germany marshal fund had an event where there was a discussion over what discussed soft power approach as influence approaches and what constitutes hard power. people normally think of economic blockades and cutting off gas as a soft power issue but it's a hard power attack. it's the same thing as using military force to accomplish the same ends. if we're going to see a resolve in ukraine then the russians need to ratchet down the action, not rhetoric, but pulling troops back from the border. not threatening to shut off oil and gasoline. putin has a gun to his head in a lot of different ways. you're right if he takes these
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actions in the strongest terms it will impact not only himself but millions of russians who are going to rely on the money earned from moving that energy around. >> over the weekend "the new york times" dared him to do it. because they said that would be the beginning of the end of western reliance on russian energy exports. we're going to take a short break and when we come back we'll talk about the near-term future for russia, eastern ukraine and for the relationship with the rest of the world. this is inside story.
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>> you're watching inside story. i'm ray suarez. the russian currency, the russian stock market, and the ukrainian currency all declined in valley as the tension situation between the two countries has escalated. still with us mark jacobson , ana of the monterrey institute of
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international studies, and andre, executive board member for the ukrainian congress committee of america. today, andre, the e.u. announced more sanctions on members of the ruling circles in moscow, named more people on the list of those who are having assets frozen, their movements made more difficult. is it this the kind of pressure that is actually going to work? >> as far as sanctions go these are things that could have been done weeks ago in the first round. they're really non-consequential. the united states released a third round that named a whole slew of politicians. it's laughable of the affect of ukraine. it's a serious humanitarian disaster going on over there. there are people in crimea who have
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h.i.v. a.i.d.s. who will not receive they are medication. there are people who are beaten and targeted as ethnic non-russians. there was a four-year-old child who was beaten for speaking the wrong language. ukraine is being erased from the map bit by bit, and the u.s west is not responding the way ukraine thought it would. as it gave up the third largest arsenal of war heads, and that promise has gone unanswered. >> not enough as andre suggests or too much? is it really not going to work in changing russian behavior? >> well, it's not going to work. everybody understand that. and that's what andre is saying, and there are scores of owner analysts, you know, russians have that peculiar streak in
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their character. when they're not being understood, heard, then punishment is perceived as unfair punishment, they'll laugh at this, resist it and look for ways around it. we're looking at two very different concepts, two very different discourse. russian discourse and western discourse and for the sake of ukraine, if we put ukraine in the heart of the discussion and think constructively do we want a war over ukraine? when you say well the west didn't do nearly enough, did we want nato moving in and russian response, everyone understands that there must be a peaceful resolution to this crisis. the parties need to sit around the table and agree. that's how it's been done for centuries. there is nothing new. it must take place and it must
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take place taking russia's interests in consideration, ukrainian needs in interests, and european interests in consideration. >> you heard anna, is there a possible situation that takes all those interests into account and people can walk away from the table getting enough of what they want that everybody can live with the outcome? >> i'm worry that we walk backwards into a war. i don't see putin simply saying that russia will not control the basic policies of ukraine. that's what he wants. i think he's gotten gee graphbly what he wants, but he wants enough influence where one of two things happens. either he pushed ukraine into the arms of e.u. which is unacceptable to him and he ratcheted the pressure. or he continues to slice off
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cities like salami and we'll see tensions heighten. >> we're six weeks away from this election. how should everybody play their hands at this point? >> i think the international component monitors need to be in there for the elections. we mentioned . i think there should be real discussion about this u.n. peacekeeping mission even if it's in a few critical areas. i could see how that plays both sides advantages but if done legitimately perhaps we can stave off some of the violence that's happened, and give ukraine a chance for carrying out successful elections. >> mark jacobson. anna, andre, thank you all for joining me today. that brings us to the end of this edition of inside story. thanks for being with us. in washington, i'm ray suarez.
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♪ hello and welcome to al jazeera america. i'm del walters. one year ago today it happened again. terror strikes, only this time it was in boston, the boston marathon turn going a scene of chaos and terror. right now the city of boston is pausing paying tribute to the victims and survivors of the bombings. today the people of boston standing strong, stopping, just briefly before getting ready for this year's race. that's when the people will b

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