>> the syrian rebels seen with u.s. weaponry for the first time. is it too late. has bashar al-assad all but won the war? >> why did federal agents use major weapons to close in on a rancher over grazing fines for the cattle? >> chicago's drop in murder rates does not add up. >> are parents hurting kids by

helping with school work? >> i'm antonio mora, welcome to "consider this". here is more of what is ahead. >> a standoff between federal land managers and hundreds of armed protesters in nevada. >> around 400 head of cattle were released for failing to pay grazing fears. >> the grazing fears are minimal. the battle is who owns the land. >> an escalation in what is arguably the biggest east-west crisis. the ukrainian army gathered its forces. >> pro-russian acts visits seized several buildings. >> russia denies responsibility. >> the asaad government hands over another bass of weapons. >> another gas attack. >> the war is at a turning point, says bashar al-assad. >> parents believe the more involved they are with children's education, the better their kids will perform. >> a study finds that is not

true. >> sometimes failures help you to succeed the next time around. >> you learn from your mistakes, rite. >> go figure. >> we begin with tensions heating in ukraine, and the talk of the possibility of civil war. ukraine launched a military provision, taking control. and other buildings seized by pro-russian separatists. troops with vehicles retook an airport in eastern ukraine after a clash with armed gunmen. separatists pushed back, reportedly knocking a ukrainian general's hat off his head. ukrainian war planes threw overhead to slovyansk, which has a pro-russian mayor, and one of in my opinion cities where separatists seized government buildings. russia's prime minister dmitry medvedev warned that ukraine was on the brink of civil war, in washington the state department threatened russia with more sanctions. >> there are a range of individuals with tied to the

russian government and the events happening in ukraine, that we are looking at, and we are prepared to sanction. if escalation continues, sectoral sanctions remain a viable option. we have the fools if we decide to move in ta direction. >> in latvia's capital. john mccain made it plane that he did not think much of the sanctions that the u.s. and european union have imposed. >> the sanctions imposed can only be encouraging to vladimir putin. sanctioning a handful of people in one bank is certainly a ridiculous response to the aggression that he has just committed. >> for more i'm joined from washington d.c. by angela stint, director for the urairn, russia -- eurasian, russian and east study. she's the authority of: >> good to have you with us, ang

ea. >> good to be back on the show. >> russian prime minister dmitry medvedev said on facebook: >> didn't ukrainian forces have to go into eastern ukraine after pro-russian advocators ignored deadlines and if anything increased aggression. >> yes, there has been a sustained process of a destabilization of eastern ukraine. different groups, unknown groups going into local administrations, town halls, police stations taking them over, and the destabilization was spreading. one can ask why the ukrainian forces waited so long. clearly they have to retake control over their country, and ukraine's active president saying on tuesday while ukraine was facing a danger, there'll be

no civil war. who do you think is right, dmitry medvedev, tore oleksandr turchynov. >> well, i think at the moment all of the unrest is in the east of you grain. the rest of ukraine is quiet. this is a localized unrest. it's very dangerous, it's potentially decentralizing. we are not out of civil war, we are at a series of conflict, localized. will the groups and individuals that have been instigating violence and take over of the local administrations, will they back down. or are they going to provoke a greater use of violence. that could be dangerous. vladimir putin spoke to u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon, and he wants the u.n. to issue a clear condemnation is to take control of the eastern provinces, recalling the actions of the ukrainian forces anti-constitutional. he said that is making things

worse. putting it bluntly, what is vladimir putin smoking. you crane is a sovereign state. how can we contemplate a country defending its territory. >> exactly, there's a lot of things that have been said during the crisis where you have to scratch your head and wonder what planet you are on. in this case it must be for the domestic russian audience, and probably the audience in crimea that joined russia. clearly there's not going to be a u.n. condemnation of ukrainian forces re-establishing control within the territorial border. >> you think this is internal propaganda, he's showing off to his own people. >> i think it's keeping - i mean, we have entered a few weeks ago, a grey zone, where a lot of actions have been taken that have - that keep the outside world off balance, we don't know what will happen next, the sense of predict

ability about how things would develop. it's shattered. i think this is part of the more general scheme of people, you know, facing an unpredictable future, and not knowing how to react. and that has gone in russia's favour so far. >> what is your sense about these reports that russian special forces have been involved in the east. the deputy prime minister of ukraine said members of the 4th airborne have been spotted supporting the pro-russian aggressors in the east. is vladimir putin trying to go in there gradually? >> i think what we - we have 40,000 russian troops amassed on the worder. they hadn't gone in. i don't think there'll be a large-scale invasion. clearly if you look at what has been happening in the east of ukraine in the last few weeks, it doesn't look as if this is spontaneous. you have a group of people wearing similar uniforms, unidentified. you have reports that the people are russians, we don't know the details of this, this is a

deliberate strategy. no one is sure what the facts and truth are. it's hard to imagine that this is spontaneous because of the pattern of the way the people have been taking over buildings. >> the russians are claiming that some have been killed as a result of the ukrainian forces going in, taking over the airfield. in reaction to all this, we are hearing tough talk from the u.s., the european union. now we are talking about a third round of sanctions, after the four-party talks that will include ukraine on thursday. is russia's interest in ukraine so important that no sanctions are really something that is it crippling, will affect him? >> so far they haven't been that concerned or the people making the decisions haven't been that concerned about the impact of the sanctions. i think they have batted on the fact that the europe peens have

never gone along with the tough saingss that the united states might want. not why you can affect the financial system in russia, that is why. they have calculated that yes, if there were a large-scale invasion, there would be tougher sanctions. this is not a large-scale invasion, it's a grey zone. it's a gradual - gradual tactics, and becomes very difficult for the europeans and u.s. to say at what point does this trigger the next round of sanctions. this is a cat and mouse game to some extent. i think they figured that they are not going to get the tough sanction, but they may be wrong. >> u.k. and sweden - we are talking tougher. is part of the calculation that putin makes going back to the sharp criticism of obama administration, who says that syria and the red line that he said could not be crossed.

he did not take action when syria used chemical weapons, that they did not believe that president obama is going to be really tough either. not only the european union. >> well, i think that russia would have undertaken the occupation and the annexation of crimea irrespective of what it thought president obama was not going to do. vladimir putin made a decision last summer when he granted political asylum, that he obviously didn't care. that meant the rupture of us-russia relations, which is what it led to. those actions are not a result of u.s. policy, but also a russian recognition that russia has a far more immediate and deeper interest in the region than either the united states or the europeans do, and that there is a limit to what they are going to do to respond to what russia is doing. >> unfortunately it's getting more and more dangerous. again, the book is the limits of

partnership. great to have you back on the show. >> good to be here, thank you. >> the syrian president bashar al-assad claims he is now winning the civil war in this country after taking three rebel strongholds. he says presidential elections will be announced soon, killing any idea of a deal with rebels, or hopes in the west that he would step down. the declaration comes as the u.n. security council looks at photographs of dead civil war victims. the syrian government and factions continue to point fingers at each other. online video showing what appear to be rebels using u.s. rockets have emerged being the first significant american-built. it's not clear if it will make a difference. >> we are joined by an associate professor and creditor of the

center for middle east studies of the joseph of school of international studies at the university. he is an author. >> at this point is there any doubt that bashar al-assad is winning the war? >> i think the trends are certainly supporting. his side in the conflict. that is not because his army is strong. it's important to realise his recent victories have been a result of substantial support by hezbollah. many of the heavy fighting on the ground is a result of hezbollah fighters coming across the border. the balance of power favours bashar al-assad, it suggests that if the balance of power were to shift, the tide of the work could turn. >> is there any way it would shift. it's not like you are going to get 18,000 troops as what is

alleged to have happened with respect hezbollah crossing the border it help with the rebels. >> that's the big question, and that's a decision that can only be made in washington d.c., because without the leadership needed to shift the tide of the war, that's what we'll continue to see. bashar al-assad's hand strengthened in this conflict. as i indicated, he's claiming to be strong, he's claiming to be winning the bar, but is making the claim because the other side is not receiving the same support and sustenance that he is getting from conor trainor and moscow. >> is there a chance that russia is trying to help. we see pictures of antitank measures. we don't know how they got there. they went through the saudis or another intermediary. the likelihood that they came from washington is not great.

>> the most reliable reports are that the obama administration gave the green light to saudi arabia to send the weapons in, largely to keep the saudis happy, because they are upset at u.s. policy. the big question is that until we see serious leadership in washington, and there's no signs that that is forthcoming. obama recently said that he is reviewing syrian policy. i don't see any signs that there'll be an about-face. there are indications that washington is starting to reconsider the conflict in syria, because it's the new afghanistan. senior members of the american intelligence administration and community in the last few months sounded the alarm bells saying unless we take the conflict seriously, the spread of al qaeda's influence in syria is going to come back and haunt the united states. that may be a game changer. there's no evidence that obama is seriously deciding to change

policy on syria, notwithstanding the antitank weapons that are resurfacing. >> if assyrian is winning the war -- if assad is winning the war, he's winning in one part of the country where al qaeda is strong. >> there's large sections that i don't think asaad can recapture. the conflict will continue. if he solidifies his control over parts he retains and takes back border areas, this conflict will continue for a long time, because of the gross human rights violet eightses, the borderline genocide activity. there'll be a part during the world down while the bashar al-assad regime stays in power. it's not going away soon despite the rhetoric we here. >> we are not talking about

genocide, we are talking about thousands dead and missing. 2 million refugees, and a gas attack last weeks. u.s. ambassador to the up, samantha power said the u.s. is trying to figure out what happened, let's listen to that. >> the president made clear how alarming he finds chemical weapons used, how outrageous he found it, that's why he put the force of military on the table, and destroyed and moved half of the chemical weapons. certainly the point of what we have done is prevent use, not just removing for removing sake, was to avoid use. we'll have to look at policy options. >> bashar al-assad said it was the rebels, the syrians handed obvious two-thirds of their chemical weapons, but they have quite a bit. >> that's true. he most likely used them again, because he's faced no consequences. it's important to realise that last summer it killed over 1,000 people, half children. he did not pay a price, in many ways he was reworded by the

international community and emerged stronger as a result of this chemical weapons deal. the victory is playing itself out. i'm not surprised if he uses chemical weapons again, because he has not paid a price or using them in the past or using them again. this puts the ball back in the court of the obama administration. they have to answer tough questions about the rhetorical position they have taken on the use of chemical weapons in syria. >> the horror is on different levels. i saw reports that the syrian economy would take 30 years to get back to where it was before the war, and the health system collapsed. it's a catastrophe. >> it is. i mean, ip will confirm that -- i will confirm that. the u.n. secretary-general issued a report, saying syria is the biggest human tare yap moral crisis facing the planet.

>> good to have you with us. the book is the syrian dilemma. >> grazing fines lead to armed federal forces stepping in. the rancher at the center of the storm joins us next. >> allegations levelled at the chicago police department. are they doctoring the numbers to show a lower murder rate. and harmeli aregawi is tracking the top stories on the web. what is trending? >> after a week of warnings, the heartbleed bug claims its first victim. details ahead. while you watch let us know what you think. join the conversation.

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>> the n man who has become america's famous cattle rancher has a new foe. his cattle was rounded up.

saying he owned millions in fines because he cattle grazed on land. bundy does not recognise that, saying his cattle grauzed on the land. supporters came from other states, federal agencies ended the crowd round up citing concern for employees and the public. bundy may have won the battle. harry reid is warning the case is not closed. >> it's not over, we can't have app minister people violating the law. >> joining us via skype from clark county. mr bundy, good to have you on the show. it's been a few days for you and your family. i'd like your response to harry reid. who hails from nevada, saying it's not over. >> well, you know, about the only thing i can say to harvey

is he doesn't want law breakers, but does he want. what i have to say harry - the people of nevada. they elected harry to go back and serve as a senator in the united states conference. not in the united states as a senator. harry, take care of your job. that will be something to do with foreign nations. don't be coming out here with your armies, pointing guns at citizens in the county. >> that did happen. there were some tense armed confrontations there. the federal government has, for now, given up on seizing your cattle which was a major operation. >> what do you think will happen

now. >> well, i have a handle of certified letters from the united states government and los angeles blm. i haven't opened them. i'm assuming they got lawyers working on me. i had their lawyers working on me for 20 years. the public don't understand or know about these things. i have been fighting the bat ol for 20 years -- battle for 20 years. >> the blm is the bureau of land management in charge of this. the government says rounding up the cattle was the last resort because, as you said, you have been fighting it for 20 years, they wanted to force you to pay or give up cattle because it's a matter of fairness to 16,000 rampers who do follow the rules. what do you say to that? >> well, there were 52 ranchers, my neighbours not happy. they are out of business.

ranchers across the desert, they are out of business, and, you know, they have problems in every western state with unhappy ranchers. what i'm saying about blm, making is statement like that, they are liars. >> what is your argument as to why you should have the right to have your cattle graze on the land and not pay any fees. >> the main argument would be that the federal government does not own the land. it was a ranch, a subdivision in clerk county. i do not graze on public land of yate. i graze on nevada. if i was to - this wouldn't be to them. it would be to the local state. >> you've losted in court and

haven't been able to win this. do you not recognise the authority of the government. >> it's a foreign court. the court does not recognise statehood, nevada law or clan rights. they are not a court of confidence, jurisdiction. nevada state, a competent jrz. they are a foreign court to our law. the senior judge whose decision was right when he said that this court does not recognise the laws, he said they are moot. he was right. they do not have no jurisdiction. that court does not have no jurisdiction or authority, policing power or arresting power in clark county nevada, on the public lands. >> there are a lot of worries raised by the standoff. we saw armed federal agents.

we saw armed people who were supporting you, state's rights groups that are coming in, taking up arms. the u.s. said things that at times it felt like you did not believe the authority at all in the state of nevada. >> i do not believe they have authority over the land. i think the united states government and the army definitely has authority over foreign affairs, and, you know, even disputes between states, but not within the state of nevada. and they - are you concerned that this will escalate. at this point they pull back. there were tense moments with armed people on both sides. >> armed people on both sides. i was with - you know, probably close to 1,000 people that day. i would say less than 1% had any kind of harm, and it would be a

small side arm, if anything. a lot of them - it seemed like most of the weapons were iphones or smartphones and being used as cameras to film the federal agents. >> did you ever expect you'd get into the middle of a brouhaha like this? >> well i never expected, but i knew that we, the people, would fight for the liberties, freedoms, and they proved themselves. they fought. that fight was not for me, it was individuals fighting for their own rights and liberties. i was not in the middle of them. i was on a stage waiting with my wife. five, six miles away. so i can't take any credit for that. they did that on their own. >> a lot of important issues raised by this case. it's certainly a lot of passions have arisen as a result of it. we appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. >> thank you for giving me the

opportunity. >> chicago's murder rates plummeted over the past decade, but are the numbers lying and has the city documented them. the city magazine covered the best part of a report. they said the city used questionable techniques to show fewer murders and less violent coum. those, the editor-in-chief directly oversaw the reporting and joins us from chicago, and they asked the chicago people for a statement. big cities doctoring crime statistics has been an issue before. this is a big deal in chicago, because it was the murder capital of the country. >> chicago hit 500 murders, it was a big deal giving them a black eye. getting the murders down is a major priority for the mayor and his handpicked police chief

superintendent mccarthy. >> some of the examples are incredible. in one case police found the naked body of a victim with a gag around her mouth, wire that had been used to tie her to a chair, but somehow, because the medical examiner didn't find a clear cause of death, it wasn't classified as a murder. >> there's a relatively new medical examiner and cheaped how they are describing some deaths. this was described as a homicide by unspecified means, which means the body was so decomobvioused, at least in the medical -- decomposed that least in the medical examiners opinion, they could tell someone killed her, but not sure how. the department seized on that, changing it to a noncriminal death investigation, removing her death from the city's year-end homicide.

>> this ambiguity reflected itself in other cases some of the reclassifications would be funny, if they were not horrific. you had an example of a man beaten by a gang using a pipe. he decide six days later, but the pathologist wrote that the victim showed no evidence of injuries sustained from the battery, and in no way did it appear that it contributed to the cause of death, and ruled his death as natural. this man was beaten by a pipe over the head. how does that not lead to the guy's death. >> what is interesting is the fbi crime code is clear on this, that sometimes the medical examiner and the police might disagree on the cause of death, and the police are charged with doing an investigation to find out the truth. what we are finding and reporting is finding, is that when medical examiner is - they are taking the out that the medical examiner is giving them,

calling an end to the case, and moving on. >> and, again, just to bring up a couple of examples. you are a woman - a woman you used a sued name for, tiffany jones, she had been punched by a relative, died after, and they did not classify it as a murder. there was a man in a car, an accident and found that the guy was shot in the head. four months later this had not been determined a homicide. >> it was four young men, a day after thanksgiving. they had been drinking, had a car accident. it turns out that the three passengers were fine, and the driver was dead. he didn't die from the accident, but being shot. there was a shell casing in the car, and one of the young men in the car had a glock, i believe it was. so you would think that at the at least it would - the sources we consulted said at the least you imagine it would be

manslaughter, if you were drunk and not - you know, aware of what you were doing. instead that was never charged as a homicide of any kind. it's inexplicable. we know that this young man's death was not included in the crime statistics. something else that was troubling is that all these cases, the victims are low income and african american. it's sad to see. >> it raises so many questions, and certainly chicago had been getting a tremendous amount of publicity because of the murder rate there. how much do you believe is the pressure that is going on at the mayor's office, at the police department and medical examiner's office leading to this kind of reclassification. >> that's an excellent question. we try to stick to the facts and what our sources told us, we know that the mayor is aware of how chicago is perceived on the world stage, aware of what the

reputation is doing to the city, and is in close touch, if not daily touch with the police commissioner, and, you know, the mayor did not come up for the story, we did speak to the medical examiner, he is not influenced by political considerations. you know, we reported what we found, and really you can be the judge. >> ample reporting that there's a lot of pressure going on to try to bring this murder rate down. you know, i am sure they'd like to bring the rate down, not with a funny number. >> sure, sure. imagine how hard that job is. it's a hard job. on the other hand, chicagoans deserve to know the truth. we want to see them come down, not in a doctored way. >> this is about the murders the first time. the next installment will deal

with felonnies, robberies and assaults. you think there has been questionable accounting. >> that's safe to say, yes. >> basically you are telling me that i'll have to wait until i see the next instalment. >> yes, that would be a good idea. >> some disturbing things raised by the peace. your article was in the may issue of the chicago magazine. good of you to join us on the show. >> a lot of us changed our pass works after learning about the heartbleed, but it looks like the bug is not done biting. millions of android users, particularly those using older versions of the operating system are at risk. if you are one of those people, experts say you should avoid sensitive transactions. have been hearing about the bug and tuesday, heartbleed claimed a victim. the canadian revenue agencies is

based on the analysis to date. social security numbers, the canadian equivalent, of approximately 9 million taxpayers removed by someone exploiting the heartbleed vulnerability. they remove access to online services and offer credit for free. >> it was revealed last week and affected two third of website. it's believed to have been around for two years, and yahoo! gmail and facebook were affected. let us know what you are doing to protect yourself, and what you are concerned about the most. >> back to you. >> thank you. >> straight ahead, is rape being exploited for ratings on tv. also, michael phelps is making a comeback. how have other elite athletes fared upon return from a break. and later - parents who help children with school work, are

they hurting their grades?

>> tv dramas once avoided men's of sex, with married couples portrayed of sleeping in separate bigs. now sexual violence and rape is a frequent tv topic, especially on some of the most critic lick acclaimed programs, from "matted

men", where a character was raped by her fiancee. and "game of thrones." is it an effort to call attention to what some call the rape culture, or the latest effort to use criminal behaviour to get aattention and ratings. i'm joined by a "the washington post" opinion blogger who has written about the issues, most recently in a most on how rape plays out on tv. alissa, great to have you with us. i should give a spoiler alert to some viewers behind on some shows. you wrote that the trend goes back a decade, to 2001 and the sopranos, where dr malphy was raped in a parking lot. this attention to rape on some great tv shows, do you see it as

an important develop, given that it is telling complex stories, delving into a rape and what it does to a character over a long period of time. >> absolutely. if you look at it in the family, there is a very important episode, edith's birthday, where she is attacked the day of her birthday, and that tells us a lot about what is happening on tv. edith is anxious. archie, who normally insensitive husband breaks out of his self-centeredness and finds it in himself to help her. the perceived dramas today are broadly focused. not just on the family like the bunkers, and cultures there were centered on men like archie. a show like madmen, that is all about - intensely masculine

culture of wall street, and how it's affected by women in the workforce, it would be remiss at not looking at the logical conclusions of some characters, and predatory behaviour. what different sheets shows like madmen, "game of thrones", is the focus on culture, sexual assault is maybe the end of a spectrum of bad behaviour, but an important way of illuminating how dangerous and toxic the cultures would be. >> if all dealt with it, you write that there's a big difference between the way that rapes on tv are used to drive stories and characters in the way they were used in the tv dramas of the '70s, and '80s. >> absolutely, there's an important change. archie is more generous.

it's not a major factor in eade ith's character for the rest of the show. on the dramas we see today, the female characters that are assaulted are changed by the experiences. it's impressive that male show runners, who created the shows thought sensitively about how survivor experiences play out in the long term. "game of thrones" may be a fantasy, but it's thought sensitively about the way that living through sustained sexual violence affected them. it's played in a wonderful performance buy lena hatey. she's not a pleasant woman, but by explaining her trauma, we understand her behaviour a little more. you write in the past oftentimes women were bit players in the whole theme, it was more about the men who ended up being heroes. >> absolutely. >> and nowadays the me are more

interesting -- men are more interesting characters, because they are main characters, and established members of society. on the other hand, should we be concerned that rape is being used. it's to be used to humanize characters, to say the least are difficult, if not downright cruel like on game of thrones. >> sure. >> or clare on "house of cards." >> i understand it can be convenient short-hand. what distinguishes the shows from some of the network uses is a woman doesn't become nicer or less reckless or cruel because we understand that she's been sexually assaulted. we under the behaviour in certain circumstances, but it does not forgive it. >> you quote another writer, a woman named jacqueline freedman, how she raised concerns about how the overuse of rape as a

float device can be manipulative and damaging too. i realised that a show like "game of thrones" is violent to begin with. there seems to be sexual violence on almost every episode. you are seeing it in other shows. is there some danger that too much of it trivializes a serious problem? >> a bigger issue is that we have few counter points, marital, partner sexuality on television. you complain about the prevalence of sexual assault. but more than one in five american women will be sexually assaulted. we are casting our eyes away from it if we don't show it on tv. the problem is we don't see happy fulfilling rewarding sex

on tv. some of it, in terms of parental concerns, people who rate television and movies are more concerned about exposing young people to sexuality and violence. it can be easy to get away with putting a sexual assault or other violence on screen, than it can be to have explicit happy sex between partners enjoying themselves. "the americans" has been a standout not just because it has a sensitive treatment of a sexual assault survivor, but the show runners showed us that elizabeth still enjoys sex with her husband, that they are intensely intimate, and it's been a beautiful counterpoint. you know, it shows us what happy, loving, onsensual sexuality looks like in contrast to what happened to elizabeth. >> "game of thrones" had less of that. it introduced a couple of

characters. two characters who have a happy sex life, but an arniverous one. >> i don't know what that says about our culture. >> do parents who are extra involved in kids' school work help them get better grades? the surprising results. >> michael phelps is coming out of retirement. but he is swimming against a number of results from other athletes who have mounted comebacks. data dive is next.

>> today's data dive comes out of retirement. michael phelps announced he's

coming back to competitive swimming at an event in arizona next week. he retired after the laems , with -- london games with it 22 medals. it's too early to know if he'll quim in the rio olympics. coming out of refirt had mixed results. the man phelps replaced as the most decorated swimmer, mark spitz tried to come back two decades after the historic "72 games, he missed qualifying for the american team by a couple of seconds, not bad for a guy in his 40s. george foreman successfully came back after a decade off, becoming the oldest heavy wait champion in history at 45. his george foreman grills don't do it too badly. >> muhammad ali beat him in the rumble in the jupingle. he tarnished his legacy with two losses, against larry holmes,

the only time he lost not by a decision. michael jordan left in 1993 to play mipor league baseball. when he returned he won three straight titles with the bulls. he retired, but his comeback as opener with the wizards didn't go so good. he left for good. >> lance armstrong came back offer tetist coolar cancer, he required in 2005 and returned in 2009 as questions about his doping intensified. many believed he wouldn't have been caught cheating had he not come back. >> golfing great ben hogan had a fate near fatal car accident. distress thought he may never walk again. somehow le recovered from broke boneses. incredibly he was playing again. legendary sports writer called

the comeback a remarkable feat in history. >> coming up. are helicopter parents helping or harming their kid in school.

>> is everything we thought we know about parents helping their children in school wrong? a study found cop vensal program

in homework, school activities and pta does not make a difference and may be worse than keeping hands off when it comms to your child's education. we are joined by a professor of sociology, whose research focuses on test score equality. and a professor of african american studies at duke university, and the co-director of the research network on racial and ethic ine quality. they are the coe authors of: >> i'll start with you, parental involvement has been seen as something that kids need to succeed, a basic thing that we thing we knew. did you expect the results? >> no, i didn't expect to find the results. i found that, that parents

involvement should matter, i thought. >> if the statistics don't pack it up, why did it involve parenting so much become the conventional wisdom. legislation from no child left behind is based pretty much on these principles. >> i think the - one of the issues is that there's some studies that have found that parental involvement matters. up to this point there hasn't been a comprehensive test of parental involved. that's where our book comes in. we did a xrens itest -- comprehensive test of parental involvement. we found many instances in which parents did more of a given behaviour, but things were not working. it goes back to the idea that in america we want parents to matter in all respects with their children's education. i think this sentiment needs to be re-evaluated, given what we

found in our book. >> not only did you find that it doesn't necessarily help, in some cases it counterproductive. >> yes, that's a finding that raises a lot of questions. it makes sense if you think about it. for example, if your child needs help with homework. i don't know about you, but if they come with trigg nom etry work it will be challenging for me to help them with trigg nom itry, and the way i learnt may be different to how it's taught now. i may mess things up. it could be that you are helping, and not doing too much by itself. the fact that we may find homework leads to the achievementment. helping with homework, at least. it doesn't mean that the parents should not necessarily stop helping, just that they should

probably find out how to help more effectively. >> i want to find out about what parents should do. race and socioeconomic status are things that have long been seen as indicators of educational success. your study towned that it doesn't -- found that it doesn't make a difference. the issue involves parents at all levels. reframe in america is that one of the reasons minority don't do as well on average is why asian children are not as involved. i think further, there's an idea that the reason that minority parents are not as involved is because they don't value education to the same extent as white and other parents. what we find turns it on his head, saying that no, that can't be the case, on the one hand minority parents are just as involved as white and asian parents on average. also, if you go back to what we

said earlier, most of what parents are doing is not effective anyway. in either case - >> at all levels, if you are involved with pta and things like that, it's across the bored. one thing you found that was interesting was the value of education not just in conveying it to kids, but kids of higher socioeconomic levels had kids that soared. >> precisely, what we found is that the success of kids doing well. a lot of times it's to do with the advantages that they have associated with the lifestyle they live. in essence, social class is more to do with how kids do it academically, than what parents do. >> what about on the whole, you know, you found that parental involvement could be negative. there are certain things that parents can do that are positive. >> yes, absolutely.

one of the most consistent behaviours that we found, that works on keds academic outcomes is when parents expect their child to go to college. we think what is occurring here is that given this expectation that some parents are able to create a bridge to the future with their child, meaning that they are able to show that - they are able to convey why what you are doing now in schooling is important for your future schooling self. we think that is something that we need to latch on to in policy. >> there's a lot of good advice in the book about what does and doesn't work. >> absolutely. it's not intended to square parents and say "hey, you shouldn't be involved', but intended to say that to assume it will lead to an increase is suggesting that parents have the apps. i don't know about you, but i don't have all the answers. >> a lot of interesting answers,

the broken compass. keith robinson, pleasure to have you with us. >> the show may be over, but the conversation continues on the website aljazeera.com/considerthis. see you next time. >> good evening, welcome to al jazeera america. i'm john seigenthaler in new york. breaking news - rescue at sea. a ferry full of students and teachers capsizes off the coast of the south korea. test of wills - ukrainian forces clash with pro-russian forces. >> two men with a megaphone are approaching the ukrainian special forces. there has been shots fired, a tense situation. >>