improve foster care and provide a happy ending for children in the statement of claim. a reminder you can keep up to date with all the news on the website, including the top story out of ukraine, where the president elected promises to punish those behind the shooting down of a helicopter. schools want the federal money that comes with school lunches. they just do not want the man dates. house republicans want to free districts from the rules. now, the first lady has jumped into the political fray to defend school lunch standards. it's the "inside story." ♪ hello. i am ray suarez. school lunch is more than just

the midday meal eaten during the school day. it's a barometer of social trends. once upon a time, lots more kids headed home at lunch time or brought a meal prepared at home. millions more children now live too far from school to go home, attend schools that are closed campuses that don't allow students to leave the building during the day and even if they could head home, there is nobody there. women with school-age children now work at a much higher rate than decades ago. throw in a higher child poverty rate and making policy around lunch gets complicated. what's the best school meal? a cheap one? a new atrocious one? one a school kid will actually eat? all of that and who gets to say what should be in a school meal is not the responsibility of nutritionists or educators because it involves money, the argument centers around politicians and a woman who is influential, well known and

hasn't been elected anything. michelle obama. >> as the end of the school year approaches for kids across the country, members of the house of representative representative's appropriations committee met to discuss student meals. in the center, schools are required to provide healthy meals. but in the house, there is still debate. should schools have the right to choose the food they serve? >> what we should be doing is encouraging best practices across this country and helping our school system, and those struggling to hold them together to measure up to the new transition challenge. >> this is where the heavy hand of the government is coming down and trying to dictate to local school systems everything about table. >> amendments would change how the healthy, hunger-free kids' act administers money. the act is a federal nutrition program set up in 2010 to fund the nation's school breakfast, lunch, and summer service meals

along with the wic program for women, infants and children. the guidelines require schools to serve more whole grains, vegetables and fruits in order for the school to get reimbursed. in 2013, the act drew fire over its food group definitions with some insisting that pizza with its tomato sauce could be considered a vegetable. now, some representatives fear if schools were to choose cafeteria menus, food would be the lowest common denominator? >> there is a rating of the food budget because schools find themselves short -- a raiding of the food budget because schools find themselves short. they take from that food budget to take care of other demands. >> others say what schools do is not wart washington's concern and that the mandate is hard for poorer schools to fund. >> there is a subtext to me we

don't trust local people to make local decisions and look after their kids. let's have a little bit more faith in our fellow americans and give them flexibility to make some local decisions that they think are the appropriate things to do. guess what. if they make a mistake, i guarantee you, they will correct the mistake. >> the debate isn't just about big government or big calories. it's about big business. the move toward healthier options in 20s 12 was initially backed by the school nutrition association whose members include school administrators & companies like pizza hut and coca-cola. the group says the guidelines are too rigid and hinders' school efforts to get kids to eat healthy. >> does every dinner you sit with, a lea protein a fruit, vegetable and a low-fat milk? look. >> that's not always the case. some in congress argue it punishes schools by with holding money if kids don't pick up

healthy sides like fruits and veg toms, forcing foods on them that they generally don't like to eat. so there is much more food waste. one school administrator says he feels caught in the middle. obviously we believe until health and nutrition. at the same time, what we don't believe in is that we should have health and nutrition that's can. >> my kids growl at me every time we sit at the dinner table and there is fish. so we know that et cetera tough to change the habits of kids, but that can't be the reasonable why we start rolling this back. >> it's an issue dear to first lady michelle obama. >> i know how important it is for everybody to eat right. >> her signature program "let's move" works to bring down childhood obesity through healthy school meals and exercise. she hosted school nutrition tuesday. >> the last thing that we can afford to do right now is play politics with our kids' health especially when we are finally

starting to see some progress on this issue. >> the house is also looking to change the summer food program for kids living in poverty. every year when schools let out, millions of children go hungry because access to school-provided breakfasts and lunches suddenly ends. the house changes would include a 10% cut in funding and specify what areas can offer the program, in this case, rural appalachia, not urban areas where the need is just as great. >> it the owners and bosses of companies that make french fries and frozen pizzas, the big makers of basic ingredients like potatoes and cheese, the people who prepare and serve school meals all found aspects of the hunger-free kids act of 2010 something to complain about. a requirement to feed kids healthier, fresher food had allies and enemies. what's up in the country's

school cafeterias? >> this time on "inside story" wohl begin the conversation at the school level with david smith, chief of staff of the kansas city kansas public schools. welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> if we had gone to one of your schools before the 2010 act, what would we have seen on kids' platters on an avenue day? >> i think we would have seen food that was as good as we knew how to make it but not food that meets the standards we are talking about today. the food would have had more fats, more car bo hydrates, more sugar, more of the things that are easier to produce and kids tend to gravitate towards but not the healthiest options. >> if i came to lunch at kansas city schools this week, what would i have seen? >> this week we are school. you would have seen more vegetables, more whole fruits, more whole grains as opposed to processed flowers. much more nutritious choices for

our kids. >> were the standards hard to passed? >> sure. i mean this isn't easy to do. let me talk a little bit about the bigger picture. what we are talking about is the health of our kids. one of the things my superintendent and my board of education have made very clear is that we are going to do what's in the best interest of our kids. and these standards are what's best for our kids. in our community, 21,000 kids, 85% of whom are eligible for a free or reduced lunch, the lunch meal and the breakfast meal many get, those are two of the three meals they will get during the day and probably for many of them, some of the -- most of the food that they will get. our county has some of the highest or the poorest health indicators in the state of kansas. so getting our kids access to new atrocious food really is vital not just for school, but for their lives and for their future health outcomes. so, yes, it was hard. it's been a challenge. we have had to overcome some

hurdles. the resources, reimbursement we are getting for making these changes doesn't really cover what our costs are, but that doesn't change the fact it's the right thing to do and my board has been clear, if it's the right thing to do for kids, we are going to do it. >> even if you agree with the general goals and like what you see so far, could you do with a little bit more flexibility? are some of the requirements more stringent than is actually practical when you are feeding so many children over the course of a year? >> well, like i said, if we wanted to improve this, then the thing to do would be to put more resources into it so that we really could have the resources necessary in order to provide them the food that we all agree is what's best for them. yes, there are some things that are more challenging for us. it doesn't really kick in now, but in a couple of years, the requirements to lower sodium are going to be harder and harder to meet. i wouldn't be surprised if usda went back and looked at that. but again, it's the right thing to do so we are figuring out how

to make it work. >> how will you know whether this is working? metrics are where it's at in a lot of fields of endeavor. three years from now, five years from now, will you be able to check whether you have fewer kids in danger of hypertension that are pre-diabetic, that have too high a percentage of their overall body weight made up by body fat? will there be hard and fast data works? >> i think so. one is you are right to put that metric three to five years down the road because, it is going to take time. what we are trying to do is change the palette of our kids to get them used to eating healthier kids as a part of their regular consumption. for many kids in the neighborhoods they come from, they don't have as much access as we would like them to have. 24 policeman along with other things that the mayor of kansas city kansas is trying to do to

create a healthy community, walking trails and things like that, we would expect that work together to make a big difference in terms of the health outcomes of our kids as they grow up and you wouldn't matly of our community. >> david smith, thanks for joining us. good to talk to you. >> thank you. >> david smith is the chief of staff of the kansas city kansas public schools. we will take a short break. when we come back, we will talk about in that standards brought in with 2010, whether they need to be relaxed, whether they are too much of a burden for the schools that are being asked to meet them. this is "inside story." >> every saturday join us for exclusive, revealing, and surprising talks with the most interesting people of our time. rosie perez >> i had to fight back, or else my ass was gonna get kicked... >> a tough childhood... >> there was a crying, there was a lot of laughter... >> finding her voice >> i was not a ham, i was ham & cheese... >> and turning it around... >> you don't have to let your

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>> don't miss the system with joe burlinger al jazeera america's highly acclaimed investigative series the los angeles times says... "beringer tells gripping stories..." new york times... "large complicated, sometimes heartbreaking..." >> to keep me from going to jail, i needed to cooperate... >> see what everybody's talking about the system works... says variety al jazeera' america presents, the system with joe burlinger scrunch. well, back to insi"inside story". i am ray suarez. new regulations governing school lunches required more whole grains, less fault, more fresh fruits and vegetables. it never as simple as that. the food industry pushed regret to allow tomato sauce on pizza to be classified as a vegetable. po tatato growers sought changeo

loosen restrictions on french fries. the school nutrition association, long an ally in the fight for better school lunch say schools are having a tough time complying with the rules. joining us now, shirley watkins-bodoin, a school consultant and under secretary of agriculture for food, nutrition and consumer services in the clinton administration. darin bacxt and bill thompson, the senior agricultural reporter for "politico." if the federal government is going to put money into these lunches, doesn't it follow that it should put some control on the dollars? >> i think what happens is when you are getting feedback from people in the field that the program is simply not working, that participation is declining, there is all kinds of food waste, it does require congress to take a step back and rethink the standards that were created

in 2012. so what congress is trying to do or the house is trying to do right now is simply create a waiver for one year. >> that's it. they are not even addressing the substance of the years. it's not weakening the standards in any way. the point is let's figure out working. >> what measures do you use to come to the conclusion that there are real problems with the law as written? >> well, you've got: participation, rate, decline. for more than a decade, there was increase in the program in student participation. the last couple of years, it's declined by 1.2 million students. government accountability office released a report and did a survey of school nutrition officials across the kwucountry. the feedback was overwhelming there is a plate waste issue, problems. >> plate waste, you mean kids throwing out more. >> throwing out the food. so, you know, and then you've got the school nutrition association that was mentioned before.

and that's th representing people that are actually the foot soldiers providing the meals to children. and they are explaining there is a problem. you know, this feedback by itself, i think, is something to at least be a red flag to think about whether or not we should move forward as it is now. if nothing else, let's at least have a very modest waiver for one year. >> shirley watkins-bodoin, isn't that market testing of a new law to soo whether or not it works, the kinds of things mr. baxter is talking about? >> interestingly enough, i am not sure that we agree with the information that he has shared. we are not seeing the same kind of plate waste that he indicates, nor participation decline. participation is on the increase rather than the decline. obviously, when any changes are made in the school nutrition

program, historically, we will see some opportunities to make some changes regardless of the regulations. we have always been able to go back and work with the legislators and the department of agriculture to make administrative changes to things people feel are a problem. >> you have heard the guest from kansas city, kansas, talking about changing the pallets of children. it wasn't going to be something that was just introduced across the country and immediately embraced by kids from six to 18 years old? >> exactly. and i thought he did a beautiful job of explaining what is going on schools across the country. we knew it would be difficult but not something that we could not do and something we could not fix. we not only have to work with children, but you have to work

with parents as well. when i was in memphis, the favorite vegetable was broccoli. they didn't like it immediately when it was introduced. they didn't like a lot of the foods that we introduced back then. but over time, with nutrition education, working with the staff, they loved those new food items that were introduced. and that's what we have to do as school food service people, school nutrition association has traditionally worked with school districts across the country working with the department of agriculture and looking for ways, for training, nots only for the children, but for staff. >> i am glad you mentioned staff because they are another constitwains? >> exactly. >> foods higher in sugar and salt are more shelf stable.

prepared foods have a longer shelf life than fresh foods. a big can of institutional potatoes already pealed and soaked in salt water is easier to cook, easier to serve and easier to save than a fresh potato. >> right, but that does not indicate that children are getting healthy choices. and the nutritional emphasis on the school bill program is something we have worked for 30, 40 years, to make this program what it is now and what those regulations are man dating, which is absolutely what we want for the children in this country. our children deserve it for their long-term health, and about. >> bill thomp. >> it's difficult. >> this isn't strictly speaking an argument between nutritionists? is it? >> oh, no. not at all. and, you know, you will notice that the republicans, mr.

mr. aderholt saying what's wrong with a one-year delay? at the same time, well, the democrats, ms. obama, see this as just killing it. it's not just a delay. when people say it's a delay, it's never just a delay. flavor? >> 0, absolutely. there was an attack today on it in the house sproepingsz mark-up mark-up. and it came down 100% democrat versus 100% republican and the provision that would give these schools waivers to opt out . those waivers are still in there. you know, talk about plate waste and these things, but they talk about a delay. at the same time, you get the sub text of, let local systems deal with local problems. we don't want big government involved. so, it transcends issue. >> before these new standards

were introduced with the 2010 act, we had local people making local decisions, darin backtng baxtin by similarly reporting. there were a lot of high fault, salt not being fed kids. >> we have a great example of what local school officials can do and that's in memphis, by providing broccoli. it's not like the federal government has a monopoly on what's healthy and what's not. the local school officials are closer to the students and can come up with ideas and experiment and come up with solutions to meet the needs of their student population. i also should point out the data on participation comes directly from the usda as well as some of the other data i provided was coming from the independent gao report. so, look, it's not a partisan issue at all. it may turn out that the republicans are voting one way

and democrats another. but constituents, parents, school officials, students, that doesn't necessarily line up as a partisan issue. those are the people that are complaining about this program. >> we are going to take a short break, and when we come back, we will talk about what happens now. everybody wants kids to eat better in america, and if they are eating more of their meals at school, what should, what can government say about it? this is "inside story." stay with us. ic.

real reporting from around the world. this is what we do. al jazeera america. you are watching "inside story." i am ray suarez. along with trying to loosen tougher nutrition standards for school lunches, the house of representatives is also tinkering with summer lunch programs. kids who rely on free lunches and breakfasts at school lose this those programs when school is out in the summer. a current proposal would limit a new pilot program for summer

meals to rural areas. bill thompson, is that in the language of the bill, just saying that one kind of area will get these monies for these summer meals? >> i believe they actually added that designation to a -- they brought back into the rural or excuse me, the urban areas back into the bill today in what they call a manager's amendment. they correctedfied it. there was quite a bit of outcry when that firsthand. >> how much money are we talking about looking across the various programs that give federal support to food in schools? is it a lot of money? >> well, it's massive amounts of money. it's massive amounts of food. >> that's one of the big costs, one of the main tenants of this bill, of this program, excuse me, started a couple of years ago, is giving kids fresh fruits and vegetables. and this is why you have organizations like united fresh. they

represent the fruit and vegetable farmers in america, they've -- >> they are afraid of backing off of the fresh fruits? >> absolutely. it supports the farmers. you can also say this sports kids. i mean, you know, we would like to think that, you know, we could give a fresh strawberry or fresh banana to a kid in school every day. >> i have never worked in a cafeteria. i have to at mid. i have been a school kid. i remember the days of great big cans of fruit cocktail. i am going to guess that that's not as healthy as an apple or a banana but serving a banana or an apple is much more complicated because you have to refrigerate it and keep it and clean it and store it and keep it fresh. >> it's not that complicated. fresh is just as easy to do as opening a can when your staffs are trained to deal with those products.

>> what about more expensive? >> for some, it may be. it may cost just a little bit more for fresh. but when you measure the long-term value for children, then should we really be talking about the cost of that versus a sugar-filled four-ounce container of fruit cocktail? i think we are missing something that's invaluable to all of us and that's feeding children and making sure that they have the nutritional foods necessary to prevent childhood obesity and some other long-term health issues. children have hypertension and child -- and obesity, something that we never, ever dreamed would happen in this country. >> darren baxt, a lot of the school systems, though, are complaining about the costs of

meeting the guidelines. with the money that the federal government is giving them, they say they still can't do everything that's required. what is adding the cost? what's driving these costs? >> >>? >> it's hard kids. it's not something they are having to provide fruits and vegetables, adding the cost but actually, the kids have to accept it, the fruits and vegetables on their tray no matter what, even if they don't want it. they might eat some but they are going to waste a lot of that food. there is a cost there. the problem with the rigid guidelines is that it micro manages these programs to the extent it's very complicated to figure out how to comply with these new standards. so that creates all kinds of costs. there is food storage issues. there is also a need for new kitchen equipment. all of these things play in to these additional costs. and what's happening is that the

costs are so bad that purportedly, some programs, some school districts, are actually taking money from their teaching budget and putting it in to compliance for the school programs. now, how many, i don't know, but that's been reported at least in some school districts. >> are there legislative shoes that still need to drop now, bill thomp? what are the next couple of moves ahead on these pending pieces of legislation? >> there is a big battle coming. so in the house as you saw today, they finished up their bill in the appropriations process. this has a waiver on there. this gives schools an option, a way out. in the senate version, it does not. so the senate and the house will have to approve the bills. then it goes to a conference committee. they will get together and they will fight. and we may see a compromise. we may just see a big fight. but it will be fun to watch. >> that's "inside story" for

today. washington. i am ray suarez. >>am ray suarez. on "america tonight" - more players take the field. >> we have to have better research, better data, better safety equipment, better protocols. >> the president's place to tackle concussion, and what we can do to protect the vulnerable players. also - who knows what about you. correspondent michael oku gets into the world of data brokers and finds out how much of his own life is exposed. >> i see that you are a male,