what we are looking at is accusations it was brought down by a bok missile. >> it is safe to say that the world is watching this developing story, we will hand you back to doha, who will pick up. you are watching al jazeera, it is 18 gmt, that is 9:00 p.m. in the earning in the ukraine. where a passenger jet carrying 292 people has appeared to have been shot down. where there are reports of debris and bodies having been discovered. the international repercussions of the downing of a malaysian airline jet over a war zone could be enormous.

295 souls that are lost at any time. given the tensions between russia and the west, this could have geopolitical implications. back with with him in a little while, this is what we know so far. mh 17, the name of the flight, a co chair flight klm left amsterdam at midday local time. it lost contract while it was in the air space. come down in pieces near the village, about 50 kilometers from the ukraine's border, with russia. >> these are the latest we have seen from the scene of the debris spread over a wide area. his military was not involved. an emergency services

rescue worker is reported to saying at least 100 bodies have been found so far. the crew was onboard. >> well, we know the flight was only a couple of hours into the journey into the journey from to kuala lumpur. as it took out, one of the trainspotters plane spotters there, i beg you pardon, took this what could have been the last picture of nh seven teen in the air. these are pictures with are getting spree yeah twitter. of what appears to be the wreckage on the ground. it is obvious that is what it is, but there has been no absolutely verification of it just yet. but these pictures reaching us and other news organizations as we understand it.

pretty close to habitable areas there. 295 people onboard, brought down in all likelihood, we know not by whom, but in an area where there has been intense fighting between russia separatists, the ukrainian authorities, going on now for a number of months. the suggestion is that it was brought down by a bok missile. in london, we saw him at the top of this hour. what has been the international reaction to this? >> well, i think slightly mooted reaction at this stage. everybody knows this is a

very significant moment in this crisis. a watershed moment, but no one is sure of the facts and i think they want to have the facts until they make judgement, until they apportion became. let me tell you more about that book missile system that you talked about. what is significant there, this is not one of those shoulder fired missiles. this is a tracked vehicle, with a whole system on the back of it. it would be very hard to just smuggle across a border. there really are, and if that is is what was used three possibilities of who could have used it. one with, is the russian military. two is the ukrainian

military. o three, are separatists and then the question comes back to russia. they got it somehow from russian stocks. i think that's why it is important. something that is directly on incorrectly on the ukrainians. depending on who is seen as responsibility. thank you very much indeed. we must not forget while this many possibilities to the events that we have seen. in airline flight, they will be families wondering what they are going to hear from the authorities, let's go to stephanie who is is in kuala lumpur, the capitol of malaysia. what-have-you heard so far? not only from malaysian

airline but also from the authorities themselves? >> well, still waiting for the first official comment by malaysian airline. the prime minister is here at the airport, become briefed by the chief executive of malaysian airline is they are both going to give a press conference. we will give their reaction, i know they will be shocked at malaysian airline is obviously still coming to terms with the los of another boeing triple seven. and is that plane has yet to be found. so to lose a second is plane, within months obviously is going to be a big shock not only to the airline, but the country as a whole. it's taken several

hospitals i think for malaysian a a whole to come to terms with the lost of one plane, so is the loss of two planes will really shock people in the morning when they get the news when they wake up. the committee await thing arrival in delaware. we will be back there to take the thoughts of the u.s. president on this incident. the first word of came from the spokesman for the minister. what have they been saying? >> i think the fact that they break the news orangely, and they had a source within the ukrainian aviation

authorities that they have been speaking to. we asked who that source was, and they wouldn't tell us. that was a few hours ago now, and now the pictures starting coming out on twitter and we with started to get a more solid idea of what had happened. we with have heard that vladimir putin has expressed his condolences to malaysia, and also know that vladimir putin has had a conversation on the phone with barack obama. it was quite a long conversation can, and they talked about many aspects of the conflict in the eastern ukraine, and they talked about the sangs that the u.s. has pushed against russia. and then at the end of the conversation they started talking about this aircraft because it seems that it was quite fresh then in the news was only just coming in. what vladimir putin said

to barack obama was essential hi what he had been told by his own russian aviation authorities which was that this plane had gone down before it entered russian air space, the implication of that and that the russians are saying nothing to do with us. there's also been a lot of finger pointing a lot of blame going on on the ukrainian side of things. it's an act of terrorism, that is what the president said. it wasn't an accident, it was a tragedy and it was terrorism. the pro russian separate is in the east of the country. they are saying the republic it dud not have the type of weaponry that could have brought down a civil airliner flying ten-kilometers up in the sky. the people's republic say the only kind of weaponry

they have, was only effected up to about 3,000 or fathometers. now there has been some kind of discussion going on. social media, about with that is true or not. putting up on the republic, social media feed a few days ago, showing a bok missile launcher and them saying that is in that position -- >> we will come back to you, as we can see on our screen, the u.s. president -- barack obama arriving to hail to the chief. and about to address the crowds in delaware. >> please have a seat. it is wonderful to be back in delaware. before i begin, obviously the world is watching reports of a downed passenger jet near the

russia ukraine border. and it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. right now we are working to determine whether there were american citizens onboard. that is our first priority. and i directed my national security team to stay in close contact with the ukrainian government. the united states will offer any assistance we can to help determine what happened and why. as a country our thoughts and prayers are with all the families of the passengers wherever with they call home. i want to thank jeremy for that introduction. give jeremy a big round of amaze. great to be in the state. >> it appears that's the only reference that he is going to make to the

events in eastern ukraine, a passenger jet has fallen out of the sky. it was brought down by a surface to aramis seal. no expected survivors. and scattered around a fairly large area. in a town close to the russian border. yes, we are aware of it, we are keeping on top of it. offing any assistance we can, and trying to find out if there were any merge citizens onboard. what has the white house been saying? >> they have been holding most of what they know not commenting on anything, not confirming

anything. the president making those incredibly brief statements right there. keep in mind, it is probably for a domestic audience. the networks are all going wall to wall on this. her quick to say that force can be used but he is saying if the russians or separate itselfs are involved in this. the president had to come out and make a statement. we will do whatever we can to try and help find out what happened. to the area, it is possible, but also let's remember what we now know about u.s. capabilities. we know the nsa has amazing capabilities to intercept cell phones. they have -- and we with doe know the department of defense has their satellites up over the region. because they have been

giving almost daily numbers of how many russian troops they believe are on the border. so the u.s. may have the capability to figure out what happened here. without problems until it disappeared from radar. practical levels apart from hooking at what they can get from their shiites what else would you expect from perhaps the ntsb? the national safety board? >> the big concern is the black box still this. obviously, there's question over who controls this area. and whether or not they know what the black box looks like.

that's one with thing they will want with to get. if there's a mechanical problem lit be in that black box, and obviously it will take time but that's the key. also we know with with past crashes they will take all of the wreckage can and piece it together in giant hangers and then they can tell what happened. so there are ways they can figure out -- and also if they can get to the scene, i don't know that we know that definitively, there would be remanence of that, and anyone that wasn't an expert in explosives wouldn't be able to clean up all the different pieces of evidence, in a field that is so massive. >> as we leaf for now,

and go back to our diplomatic editor, you have been hearing from contacts of your own. the very strong feeling is this was not some kind of terrible accident? >> is they match what i have been told by others, which is they need first to get it won't take that long. there should be some sort of imagery, that the u.s. has but they need to get to the bottom of that first, before they can make any details comments at all. i think what you can hear now is for a few hours people talking about this, but not apportioning blame, and then i think things will change very rapidly.

>> the security council. and at some point on this whether it will take mace here in the united nations or whether it will take place in the coming days. isn't clear at this stage meeting right now, i am told, in brussells nato the north atlantic council, they may well meet at some stage, but everyone is is waiting for vital information at this stage. where that information is released when things change quite significantly. because given the sphere, remember, only 24 hours ago, imposed sanctions this is already a very tense time. >> the plane was with sit

and unable to fly, and possibly crashed on the ground, not in one piece, picking up into a few pieces. so just to wrap up for the time being. 295 people, believed to have died the crater there of whether the malaysian airline came down. accusations nighing from both sides of the conflict.

the if the has said that this is an act a of terrorism, but no confirmation as yet that this was an act of aggression, although that is what many people are suggesting and our correspondent saying that at the united nations, there is talk of a u.n. security council meeting. we will be back with our correspondents in just a little while on that developing story. in other news, ahowed to allow aid into the territory ended let's go life to nicol johnson who is in gaza for us right now. give us an idea of what people there are having to put up with. >> well, david, it is a heavy bombardment after that five hour lull that we had during the day.

very heavy attacks are going on in the eastern part of the gaza strip. there's shilling going on, and one particular area, and the patients there many of them can't evacuate. they are too sick, too unwell, so they are on the bottom floor, and that area around that hospital we with have been told is being attacks with intense shelling. they are very concerned about the situation, other areas include the neighborhood all of this is in the east of gaza, very close to the israeli border, within one kilometer. now, we have had reports of three people killed in that eastern area. this is since that truce has ended. we have also heard of three children being killed inside gaza city. they were playing on the roof top of their building with their cousins around about ten of them, and three

children were killed. so a pretty heavy evening we are seeing in gaza strip so far. inside gaza are certainly on the attack tonight. >> we will be back with with you a bit later. there in gaza, one israeli we with know has been kill by a rocket fired from gaza. the palestinian death toll is much much higher. israel strikes on gaza have killed 237 people so far. 43 of those are children. age 17 or younger. who were killed by israeli shells as they played hide and seek on the beach. stephanie decker tells us what happened. >> it is hard for the

young toast see he has lost his brother. he was even looking for a job so young to help support his family. i wish god could put some patience in my heart. >> my heart is broken. i took this picture after two hits it shows four boys running away. ins a similar moment, there is a third boom i heard. shortly after this shows a clear strike on the beach right where they had run for safety. this is the immediate aftermath, one boy was pulled from the shack, and another three bodies were with found up on the beach. it seems to those of us who witnessed this, that they were directly targeted as they ran away. >> this is the shack where the two strikes came in where the boys were playing.

we don't know what was inside the shack, we have been here for the past ten days. and we haven't seen any rockets fired from here. there wasn't a sex dare explosion, so certainly very unclear what this strike was, the israeli army says they were targeting hamas operatives but all we saw here were those children. >> and she wants answers. >> i want to know why, why our children differ from the rest in the world recross examination they carries guns and tanks and shooting at the soldiers the children are playing at the sea, and they kill them. why? they are not the first children to be quilled. be think strike happened to be witnessed by many. >> they think israel lacks no technology to be sure about the identity of the children. so i would say that was a deliberate attack on children, it was a war crime against children.

the army says they are continuing to investigate, but the feeling here is there will be no justice for these four young girls. people say no one holds israel to account when it comes to crimes against the palestinian people. al jazeera, gaza. >> stephanie decker reporting there from gaza. now returning to our developing story, the crash in ukraine, of a malaysian airline plane, 295 people onboard, accusations from both sides in the conflict there. but the other side was responsible for shooting down a passenger jet. live for us in washington, d.c., we have had it confirmed that it was vladimir putin who told barack obama that this had happened. >> you know i can tell

you they were being very vague about the timing of this, that he was being briefed and it was mentioned on the call. basically saying that the first public reports of the plane crash came out during the phone call can and president putin mentioned it which seems to indication that the president obama had no idea about what was happening until president putin told him. we will try to chase them down to see if they will say it specific live. just recently it was learned when he was on the phone call with german chancellor he had not been told that an alleged u.s. spy has been arrested in germany, she didn't bring it up, and if she had, he would have had no idea what she was talking about. >> what to you believe

happened. >> a tragic, accident, of course. a lot of shock, and horror, but this sort of thing could happen to a civil airliner in flight across the country. you know when we think about aircraft nighing they are flying very high. the likelihood of something like a shoulder held missile being able to strike at anoa such as this very remote indeed. so if we are talking about a missile strike, it has to be something much more powerful and potent. it has to be a medium long range missile. something that would have the legs to reach up and take out an airliner such as this.

a number of times principally by the russians in regard to this, what do you know about that? it comes on a truck rather than being shoulder held, is it sophisticated? can it get that high. >> potentially quite sophisticated. of course, and yes, commercial can certainly get that high. that is presuming that this type of weapon was available freely available, freely in use. in the region of that part of the world. so you know, we have to have proof yet, that that technology was available to the insurgents. but until that proof comes we can't positively say that it will be such a device.

bursts into a lot of places up high, or would have some people said just been a heat seeker. >> probably also, demolished the wing structure. i would have thought, and therefore the aircraft comes down straight away. >> just tell us about why some airline have decided not to fly across this area, where there is a war going on, and some airline have decided that it was a risk worth taking were you surprised

to know that some people were with still doing it. surprised indeed, because at the end of the day, it's probably less than wise to operate a civil airliner in commercial service. anywhere where is there is a conflict zone. of course, the conflict has been getting worse after recent days after a period of quiet. so that may well have lulled civil aaroners into a false sense of security. just talking about the routs that airline take. this is the shortest distance between amsterdam and kuala lumpur. for that reason, the airline would normally operated unless they were told by the various to

avoided that area. and none of the information coming out of the ukraine. they have alerted the safety authorities to any potential danger to civil aircraft. >> indeed, this is from the head of the ukrainian air space. the military body, the plane was flying normally until it simply disappeared from the radar. how is it going to be possible to find out what caused this? >> presumably it will be easier since it is in a concentrated area. other needs of discovering what went wrong. >> well, it is the black box, of course, that everything talks about. two black boxes the flight voice recorder and the flight data recorder.

both of these will yield up a huge amount of information if we with are talking about a missile strike. then it is probable that the voice recorder would have heard and recorded for a few seconds and the sound of the explosion as it happened. sew a lot of information to go on. fortunately, if you can call this, fortunate, that the wreckage contained in a relatively close area. and therefore the potential is quite clearly good. for those two devices to be -- to be retrieved. >> chris, thank you, i

think chrisuates there, talking about the intricacies of the operation to discover what they have gone wrong onboard that plane. just a warning, this is an extremely disturbing story, but we now have as far as i understand, it's pictures of the last moments of this aircraft. in the distance has suggested that the flame did not break up in midair, it looks as though there was a massive explosion as it hit the ground. which would perhaps indicate that one of the engines was disabled by a missile. which has been suggested. let's go through the main points at this point. it is 18:13 gmt, where a passenger jet carrying 295 people appears to have been shot down.

this is what we know for sure. a coach air night with the dutch airline left amsterdam. >> this it case appears off the radar. it crashes noer the voice ladies and gentlemen which is about 50-kilometers from the ukraine border with russia. the government says it was hit by a missile. the aircraft the president say his military involved in a battle with pro-russian separatist was not involved. save that at least 100 bodies have been found so far. that is crew and passengers onboard mh 17. as well as international media.

take us through what you have discovered. >> thank you very much. people all over the world, just like us are understandably desperate to understand what is happening. i have been following this along with my colleague. hi, there, phil, let's talk about the airline. they have been making statements on twitter. >> the airline that had -- that owned this plane, their response which is posted on facebook, says malaysia airline confirms it received notification from the air traffic control that has lost contact. 30-kilometers approximately 50-kilometers from the russia ukraine border. operated on a boeing 747, 12:15:00 p.m. was estimated to arrive at international airport 6:10:00 a.m. malaysia the

next day. and 50 drew on board, the other airlines are starting to respond now, we have seen air farce that it will not fly over eastern ukraine. and it already stop flying over the region. is the dutch aaroner has responded it has given a statement, the statement reads although not officially confirmed by the airline. it is with great regreat that klm has learned about the possibility incidents. coach air 4013 from amsterdam to kuala lumpur, we are in contact to attain further information, a little bit much more, british airways has put the flights under review, turkish airline also avoiding the area. the behavior in some

instances of politicians a hot of tweeter about barack obama, when he made statements this afternoon, which people thought was far too jovial. >> yeah, he was at an event in delaware, and he reached up to the stage, then went with into a very somber pose to talk about what happened and thin carried on. a lot of unease the way he respond there had. the state department, even president obama's twitter account are not mentioning this @all. in which he said, i am shocked and saddened by the rare disaster. needing to establish the facts. vladimir putin has commented, vladimir putin has discussed the situation in ukraine. accounts follows by condolences to the prime minister.

what we have been able to do. the human face to this, because of course there are victims to hundred 95 of them. in some instances there are pictures. of the people that have lost their lives. >> we have seen faces to people that we believe have lost their loves. now obviously, twitter one of the spents, sometimes you can't verify them, but the impression is these are photographs of passports that have seem to have survived this crash, pictures of people who may have been onboard. we don't have the passenger list yet. one photograph appeared to be a middle age dutch woman, and it seemed to be near that site. the more graphic ones obviously are not showing but there's a lot of stuff here of the wreckage.

the guests were saying those pictures that we were seeing would help the investigation. people with agendas will push marry agendas. it looks like pictures of a bok missile launcher. it says it was today, whether or not it was today, we don't know. but it lends credence. this was probably not launched from the shoulder but from a ground to missile. >> and also something just fopped up on twitter about britain. calling for mealing at the u.n. on the international stage to looking at this more intently, and saying what is the next step. >> a lot of people.

the thing about twitter is people put information on too soon. you tend to hear a lot of them when there's an election coming up. we will had back now to david foster in doha. >> what happens on twitter often turns out to be not what has happened in reality. that's the diplomatic editor james bait. >> we can confirm that information on twitter. because we have learned in the last few moments that the british delegation at the united nations one of the five permanent members of the united nations has called for a u.n. security council meeting on what has happened in eastern ukraine. not clear when that will

take place. it is up to the presidency. currently held by rwanda to schedule that meeting. i am sure there will be countries including the u.k. that want that to happen as soon as possible. so that's the news out of new york. news out of brussells too. we have had a lot of statement -- shocked by this tragedy, shocked by what looked like the death toll. this is a first statement to come out of one of the capitols with further details taking it further. and then the important bit, we scal on all parties to provide full access to the crash site, so kit be secured immediately. to cooperate fully and to

share all relevant information. why and that in there. we are getting reports from the scene, or close to the scene, let's certainly journalists operating in the area, are not being allowed free movement, free access to the area. separate itselfs are preventing their movement. we are also hearing and i have to stress the source of this, but interfax, is saying and claiming that a group of separatists have got the black box, have removed the black box, and now have custody of the black box. the f that's true, and i stress we only have it from one russian news agency, that is an important development. >> if it were a fact when it is pro russian separatist who they are suggesting did this. we don't know for sure.

we do know that our team on the ground has had difficulty getting to this particular site. so once again, james, britain calling for an emergency meeting. will that happen within the next few hours or could that take a little bit of time? as you say there are diplomatic wheels that have to turn? there are certainly some countries that will want more information before having such a meeting. as these things tend to happen. you have a president, rwanda, but the real power is held by the five permanent members of the security council, one of those has called for the meeting but watch closely what the others have done. and it is clear what what we heard, that they are still checking things. they are going to make that comment, which of course you would expect in an appalling v tragedy

like this, president obama saying how shocked he isdy be death toll. they are waiting trying to gather more information as we speak. >> thank you very much. which leads us very nicely to our correspondent in moscow. saying or suggesting that pro russian separatist may well have gone off with the black box. is this to be trusted this source? >> yes, i think it is. and if they say that the separate vest the black box then that's probably the case. and the russian news agencies tend to have very good contacts with the separatists in the eastern ukraine. we don't have independent verification of that yet, but i would argue that's probably what in fact they are saying is true.

certainly the separatest do have control of the area in which plane crash happened. if it went down in the area between donetsk. we have the people's republic, the mane went with down somewhere in between the two cities. and so i think it's -- it will absolutely control hour the way that the investigation unfolds. from now on, working out what happen is going to be very very difficult indeed. because this event is a complete game changer for this conflict. it elevated to a totally different level, and the geopolitical ramifications are going to be huge. so controlling the site, controlling the information that comes out of the site. and how the world at large perceives what has happened here is really

going to be make a massive difference to the conflict, and to the way this whole war has been ebbing and flowing. what goes on next, and how the world perceives it is crucial, if the world perceived that it was the separatists that shot this down, shot the plane down, then it is going to make moscow's position very very difficult indeed. what does it do. >> let you hold that thought for a second. >> hold that thought for a second, we will be back. i have some details here about what other airline are saying and then we will go who talks on behalf of the royal services institute. to give us thoughts on who may have been responsible for this.

once again, that news from the head of the malaysian airline regulatory body. airline group says it believes that the crash was not flying in restricted air space. that is according to the reuters news agency. and dubai's emretired airline say as plane that was on it's way to kiev, has been told that it should return to the united arab emrest. what are your thoughts. >> they may think

initially about shoulder. air defense systems and that isn't what we have here. they don't have the range or the maximum at fuel. according to by facts the news agency which is so far the only one i can see. or an s.a. 17, which are all russian surface aramis seal systems from the 1970's and eights. it would be 30 to 40,000, some of the early reports say ma 17 would have been at 33,000 feet. so all and all, a heavy major flat form like the

s.a. 11 could very well have reached the aircraft. >> it includes many more as well. >> excuse me. it says on a website which i studied this that homicide a 90 to 95% success rate. in hits that this extreme altitude. >> yes, but it also depends oen the nature of the target, how fast it is traveling, and it's own defense systems. for a civilian aaroner flying at this altitude, at the speed it would have been going at, with no meaningful with no defense systems of it's own, like a military aircraft may have, it wouldn't have had a chance. as long as the surface to aramis seals is operated in a competent matter, so it would have been a very very easy hit. >> what would have had access to these type of missile launchers?

to be very clear, both the russian and ukrainian arm forces -- the ukrainians for obvious reasons have mad this as well. a number of agencies reported that pro-russian rebels had taken over a base in eastern ukraine, that con taped the surface to aramis seals. it is possible that webs from that base may have been used. >> and if you were been that went in and stalled these, if you were a pro-russian separatist and you took these from a base, how difficult would it have been to be able to direct them the way you want them to go? >> these are not simply as similar as the

shoulder launched that you find in other conflicts. in this case you would have had a reasonable degree of sophistication. we know, of course, that the pro russian rebels have operated at a fairly high agree of military sophistication. they have held off forces for a long time. we also know that russia has been implicated in a long degree of support. >> how are you going to find out who fired it? if that is what it is? girl of all, is system may be exposed. eastern ukraine has become a major battleground, so a number of intelligence agencies including russian, american, european, of course ukrainian will all have been monitoring this very closely indeed. now the russian claim, of course, now, appears to be that this was a shot

down by a ukrainian fighter jet, which in turn was then shot down by pro-russian rebels. that kind of story is easy to check, it is not going to be awfully hard in my opinion to find out which system was responsible the this. however it does appear to be the case that the wreckage has now being taken under the control of pro russian elements who have spirited away the black bott. so many eyes oen this area, we will be able to find out how this was effected. >> thank you, from the royal united service, institute, we go to washington, d.c., i beg your pardon to delaware. where the president of the united states spoke a short while ago to a group of people gathering on the coastline this, his first thoughts were for the people who had lost members of their

families and loved ones in this aircraft. >> obvious hi the world is watching reports of a downed passenger jet near the russia ukraine border. and it looks like it may be a terrible tragedy. right now, we are working to determine whether there were american citizens onboard. that is our first priority. and i directed national security team to stay in close contact with the ukrainian. the u.s. will offer any assistance we can to determine what happened and why. as a country our thoughts and prayers are with all the families of the passengers wherever they call home. a short while ago, at this point in this program here, rounding up everything that we have learned in the course of the last few hours. about that downing it appears deliberate downing of a malaysian airline passenger jet over the war zone that is

part of eastern ukraine. pieces of debris can can still be seen falling to the earth, social is media quickly filled with a view from the ground, scattering remains said to be from malaysian airline. shortly after, malaysian airline itself confirmed it had lost contact with the flight in ukrainian air space. the boeing 777, a coach air flight, left the airport just after midday, bound for kuala lumpur. 295 people were onboard. it was at a cruising area of ten-kilometers. ukrainian firms say the plane was shot down by a russian made ground to

aramis seal, and blamed separatists for firing it. a claim quickly denied who laid the blame with the military. aviation analysts warned finding those responsible will be extremely difficult. >> the fact is that you have very sophisticated weapons in the hands of somewhat irresponsibility people. l the russians are still controlling them, or whether it's just the rebels on their own, that's what we have to do find out here. >> disappears from ray da on rout from kuala lumpur to beijing. despite a lengthy search, the plane was never located. the airline operators will now begin their analysis and investigates into a new tragedy. this one had the potential to develop into a major international incident.

joining us now via skype from florida in the united states. tell us a little bit about what you have been able to piece together. over the last few hours. it appears the downing of the aircraft was intense. we with are not sure how it was shot down, whether it was a missile or a fighter, in a war zone that's no place for a civilian aircraft to be flying. i don't know any american aarons are flying through that right now, it may be legal to fly flu the air space, but good judgement would indicate it would be much bet tore take an alternate rout around the area. now -- >> carry on plead. >> i'm sorry. if the aircraft was shot down by a missle, it probably broke up at high altitude. my understanding is the wreckage is scatters over

a wide area, eventually we will find out what happened. but it is going to take a while, and a lot of finger pointing p the it was in no one's best interest to shoot this down. obviously a horrible mistake. and the problem is that we have given a lot of sophisticated arment to people who may not be well qualified to operate it. and this may be the result of what has happened. >> we thans the bring is over a concentrated area, other experts suggest that might be the case if the engine was taken out by a missile. we with do see one enormous, fire ball, i don't know if you have seen it, we also have a report that the black box has been removed from the area, by pro-russian separatists.

without that how difficult is it -- the. >> i don't know with that a black box will be that much help in this case. if it was shot down, obviously, it was, there will be evidence of that in the wreck calling. the black box would give us cadata of the voice conversations taking place, but unless you are -- qualified to read the data from those boxes it won't do anyone any good. and it is doubtful that anyone in that area is capable of using the data for any purpose. >> we will leave it there, thank you indeed for giving us your expertise on the downing of this malaysian airline mh 17, 295 people onboard, a passenger jet on jet. down over the war zone that is eastern ukraine, be wac with more news in a couple of minutes.

contributor here to al jazeera. and mike, tell me, is it possible that this plane was brought down by one of those shoulder launched rockets that we with see so often, or is this a sophisticated >> hello, you're watching aljazeer. it is just after 10:00 p.m. in ukraine, where a passenger jet carrying 295 people appears to have been shot down. this is the moment of impact in the distance. ma17, a bowing 777. there are thought to be no survivors and all evidence point to the fact that it was deliberately brought out of the