contact. speaking to people in gaza before this announcement from israel, i said look, what is it you want, you want a continuation of this fighting, do you want a ceasefire and it was quite incredible how many people said that they don't want to see a ceasefire until hamas has achieved something. the main thing they want is in easing, a lifting of the siege and particularly the ability to get out through the crossing into egypt, because that egyptian crossing has been closed for months now, which has trapped the people of gas inside the strip. the strip. >> we'll be back with you in a minute or so, just to announce for those of you joining us at the top of the hour that this is a special news program from aljazeera headquarters here in doha and david foster with the very latest developments in the gaza conflict. also details of the downing of an airliner passenger jet over

ukraine. gaza first. after 10 days of air strikes, the israeli army has been ordered to begin a ground offensive. ten days the bottom bartment's been going on, 237 people, palestinians we understand have lost their lives. ives. they had agreed to accretion fire. i would imagine most of those people, thought something like this was inevitable. >> that's right. people really didn't know what the next would be. they hoped that with all the diplomatic talk that had been going on, that a cease fire agreement that would give the people of gaza something would eventually be reached.

gone, people knew that a ground inch vagues because a possibility. we have had pounded from the navy vessels. they have been very heavy, hitting the shoreline, as well as in the eastern part of garza, we have had heavy tent shelling and that's mainly been around the neighborhood, as well asdy talk. ten people, ten palestinians have been killed since the end of that cease fire, seven of them are children, and three were playing on top f othe roof of their building. with their cousins when they were killed.

part of the statement that is known as the i.d.f. the i.d.f. spokesperson unit says 24 stabling of operation, led by the idf southern command would include close coordination between i.d.f. units including infin tri. artillery, and intelligence, combined with aerial and naval support. we will continued an unprecedented effort to limit civilian harm. what do you make of that? well, verification have seen how difficult it is to limit that harm. >> othe empoo have been killed are women and children. so the people of gaza wouldn't feel as if they are doing a marly good job to limit the deaths here. so they won't be taking that seriously at all. people will be very

concerned, very worried. as i was saying we haven't confirmed reports. that troops have moved yet, and the other question is what is it that they will be doing inside gaza? how far will they move in. will they just be trying to look for ammunition points. for weapons for rocket launches in various parts of the strip, one would imagine they wouldn't want to get two deep, zoo some of the refugee camps in the neighborhoods that are very densely populated because the minute they start to do that, we will see that death toll of 200 drastically climb. and we could end one a situation like we had in 2008-2009, when more than one now palestinians were with killed. tell us what you have heard there the idf, the

israeli military? >> the statement you were reading earlier, does a lot to try to explain in the israeli army in their view, in any case, has been patient. they say followed ten days of hamas attacks and after repeated rejects of offers to do deescalate the initiation. well, that is what everybody in gaza strip gaza has feared. but they had already evacuated much of the border area to prepare the ground for this. now that everybody is turning the screw to this plane. clearly something they were prepared for and likely to do.

the israelis would say that they have tried to be patient with this and try to do what they could to stop the rocket attacks. but to give it more an lit tat, netanyahu was in a position to find a cease fire or escalate the conflict, he was being criticized from international organizations or internally, in israel from both sides. apparently, he chose to go in hard, and that is going to give new urgency to the cease fire talks. i can also postpone them, it can be very difficult to agree to inning, while the ground invasion is on going. smoke rising over open fields in northern ukraine. a remains of an airline that fell out of the sky with almost 300 people

onboard. we have two major stories unfolding at this house. first, israel has just launch add ground offensive in gaza, the offensive comes after ten days of israeli air strikes, and hamas firing rockets into israel. but we begin in ukraine, where 295 people have believed to be dead after the crash of malaysia airline, here is what we know at this hour. the mane was making its way east across europe, when malaysia airline says they lost radar contact with it. take a hook at this video. the emergency services worker told the reuters news agency, at least 100 bodies have been found so far, ukrainian officials say the plane was shot down but so far there is no outside confirmation of that claim.

he says the wreckage has fallen across two fields. >> we are in the field where the mast of the aircraft came down. i can see a landing gear with it's tires still on it behind it, it is smoldering. and about the five hours after it is thought to have come down. it's quite dark, it is a funnel field, quite honestly. there's some emergency medical service people here, the fire brigade is here, but from what it sounds like, people have been telling us that the scattering of this wreckage is wide. so right now, it appears they are doing any kind of searching. the self appointed prime minister, people's republic just arrived as

we did. he is here to assess the situation, for them, it is an area that is control bid separatist fighters. i count maybe two or three close into the facility, two or three separatist fighter check points. arm guards and thorn once we arrived on the scene, we have maybe two other places are we had to show press credentials. so there is tight security here, no big arment, or tanks over anything like that. but there is a heavy armed presence. so emergency servicessier this year, faa banned american air carriers from flying over the peninsula and surrounding waters due to safety. let's get to lisa stark now, lisa, what warning you thinking about what was issued at the beginning of the year, what warning is the f actiona issuing at this

moment. >> so the f actiona is seeing if it needs to issue a guidance. but we have learned from euro control, and that's the agency that controlled the space over europe. euro control says the plane was flying the malaysian plane at 33,000 feet, and that the ukrainian officials had closed the air space, up to 32,000 feet. so this plane was above the closed air space. how, now as you can imagine, given what has happened given the fact that this plane may have been brought down by a missle strike, the ukrainian officials have asks euro control to close that entire air space. no limits on how high up, so your cree control says it will not authorize any

flights now, and planes will be rerouted. so that is happening even as we speak. >> can you give us the latest information that you are getting as to what is happening on the ground right now around this crash site in ukraine? i can't imagine that investigators have had an opportunity to get to the scene, and we know how important it is to get there to collect the flight data recorders i am not sure that any of that is happening. >> question have very little information about what is going on on the ground. this is a reasonable controlled area, they are the ones who under international law should be leading this investigation. they are the ones who should be leading this investigation, but there are some reports that the rebels who do control this area, want russia to handle this investigation. this is a big political

thicket and it could cause quite a fire storm nato has issued a statement, saying that it is critical for people to get access to this site to look at the wreckage and to get the flight data recorders. >> lisa stark, all the elements for us, thank you. so there is so much speculation that the plane was brown down by a surface to aramisle. she has posted social media images who this morning was taking credit for having shot down what he believed was the ukrainian aircraft and this was above they knew it was a jetliner. claiming that this was in fact shot down by a book

missle system. now, it is something that ukraine is familiar with. the russian prod deuced this in the mid 1990's to replace the systems used in the cold war. so based on the crash site, which is about 20-miles from the border with russia, that would be within range of any of these boundaries that are essentially with along the border. the system is pretty easy to detect from satellites because it consistents of 7-28 ground vehicles. of course bombs as they are being dropped. this comes in the context

of other aircraft that was shot down this week. on monday, a military a.m. 26 cargo plane was shot down that aircraft was flying at 21,000 feet, again that's heyer than the shoulder launch missles but that's within range of the surface to aramisle systems hike this bok system. and again, kiev in that case blamed separatist rebels and the rebels to credit but they placed the game on the cargo plane being shot down squarely on russia. one thing that is happening now, given the amount of attention that the pentagon has been putting on western ukraine, because of the supplies moving across the border, there was a lot of attention on this. so officials are now confirming there's a very intense effort to go through all of the satellite data from this morning there the time when this because brought down, go through the

imagery, and try to determine did the pentagon catch an image of the launch, if it was a launch, and what can they detect based on that data? and mary that information with the data they had already collected. >> okay,ly take that point up with our transportation contributor. i would imagine you would think that it is coming through all of it essatellite information, all of the imagery that might be available to it at this moment. trying to find out what it had on this event? >> that's correct. especially in the case where there is a suspension, this may be something other than a normal accident. it stanes to reason that the u.s. would use it's intelligence and military resources to analyze this. >> you are not at least,

at this point, you are not at this point ready to suggest or to say, on the record that you believe this plane was shot down, correct? >> that's correct. there's ample evidence from the video evidence, that this was an aircraft that somehow broke up in mid flight. 1078 sort of catastrophic inair situation. what isn't clear, there is no direct evidence of a missle launching or of any other sort of military action. at this point, i would have to reserve judge innocent as to the cause. we will roll some video of the debris field, i want you to tell us as someone who has investigated crashes in the past, what you can discern from the evidence that is demonstrated in the video we will show. of the debris field. >> well, i have seen pieces of this video before, so i may be a

little bit ahead of what you are snowing the audience. it shows the debris is spread over a variety of areas. you have some recognizable pieces for example, the engines, landing gear, and most notably the tail section. i saw earlier a vertical tail, as well as a horizontal tail of the aircraft. which is even more evidence in my mind, that this was an inflight break up. because those tail sections didn't have any obvious burn mark, as though it was near the same area where the fuel fire was. >> so at this point, based oen what you have seen so far, and the quick analysis you have been able to do, of the debris field, what is the most likely cause at the moment, and we know that your conclusion might change once you get more information, as to what might have happened here. >> the most likely cause is a catastrophic break up in the air that could have either been caused by some sort of explosion either inside the aircraft, or close

proximity to the aircraft. or some other catastrophic physical damage to the aircraft. which because of the forces on this aircraft, crews, aircraft, typically fly, airliners typically fly at the high speed of sound. so very kickly tear it apart. >> i want to talk to you a bit, we were also having a conversation about insurance companies and what they will be looking at. and certain hi a lot of eyes in this gaffs joyce, you were telling me this was an important insurance component, and insurance companies will be looking at this very closely because of how much the air space was closed. did the notice go out to air carriers to avoided this area? or to fly above a certain area, talk me through that again. >> yes, of course.

they are ensured by private ensurers. and they are in the business of avoiding unnecessary risk. for some of the mystery of aviation, there's always been areas of conflict, to the cold war to afghanistan and so on. come up with guidance as to what is reasonable and what is not reasonable. sometimes you would have the u.s. government says airliners that are registered in the u.s. can't fly in this area. they may take a view from that, they may have their own sources. let's roll some pictures here. as we continue into pull together all of the information we can gather here on this mali sean

plane crash, we are continuing to talk to our correspondents. the israeli prime minister that the ground offensive has begun in gaza. we are back in a moment, this is al jazeera america.

with have breaking news. israel is about to launch a ground offensive, it followed ten days of tit for tat attacks. israel conducting air strikes, and hamas an

egyptian cease fire seems to be off the table at this point. here is what we know about the ground offense, israel says lit be sending a number of troops ranging from infinry to armored core. steal has called 40,000 reservist in recent days along the border. the launch of the offensive comes after five hour truce, earlier today, it is just after 11:00 p.m. in gaza, we are joined now on the phone who is in gaza. why this moment to launch the offensive, bring us up to this moment, please. >> nick, are you there? >> yes, yes, sorry. >> nick. >> it's good to have you. >> i am just happy to have you on the line.

i want you to -- we just sort of shared with the audience what we know to this point, bring us up to this moment today, and the decision at this moment to announce the start of a ground offensive by the israeli military? the momentum of dim loamsy, earlier today, was positive. u.s. officials had been telling me all day, that the secretary kerry was even ready to fly here tonight to try and figure out how to put together the permanent cease fire, but obviously that has changed in the last few hours. and if you listen to the language coming out of the israeli army, and prime minister's office, it is clear that in the last few hours post temporary cease fires so in the last eight or nine hours. the thing that they have done is convince them that this is needed. this had include add

barrage of rockets but also attacking a tunnel that can be used to get from gaza into israel, so that is the stated goal. but what is lapping is if you look at the language you may hear some ambulances in the background here. their stated goal is to remove hamas' ability to fire rockets, you can't do that from the eyre, you can only do that if you go in and find the rocket launchers. that is a hugely hugely difficult proposition. and does require a ground invasion. that seems to be the first step of what they are doing. tonight in the last 30 minutes or so, reporters along the coast, about half an hour -- half a mile from our bureau have been told to evacuate. expecting a landing from the troops. so that the few miles to

the oh, there are troops or reports of troops moving into gaza. and so clearly, israel is taking steps to make a major, a major move into gaza. is aim is to remove the fighters ability to go after those launchers and the armies word strike at hamas terrorists structures. >> i want to try to be as official as we can & i don't know if we have a map. as this ground offensive begins. i want to show everyone watching us, and i want you to describe the areas where the israeli troop movement may be coming from. from the east and north. >> so if the map shows gaza city, we are looking at -- correct, we are looking at northeast, there's a point called araz, that's the main crossing between gaza and israel. that is where a lot of the strikes have happened just to the north of that, has been about 70%

of the air strikes has been focused there, because almost the same equivalent percentage of rockets have been fired from that part. you will see some kind of incursion into north gaza, disa those residents are already gone. they have been evacuated about 24, 48 hours ago. we have been in those before, and they are ghost towns tonight. secondly you have some kind of move along the coast, this is where four palestinian children were playing on the beach yesterday, and according to the reporter whose were there were fracked or seemed to have been tracked by some kind of firing from the israeli ship, up that beach. israel says that was a hamas target.

that troops were going to be landing there, so you have northeast, and to the west, and clearly some kind of removement somewhere in there. >> it is interesting you talk about palestinians evacuating, it is such a small area, just hard to imagine where actually they go. which drives me to the next point here, we have been here before, most recently, 2008, more than 1,000 grass zahns were killed in that offensive, the idea of launching a ground offensive in this small area 1.5 million people there in gaza, at the end of the day, this ends up almost being hand to hand neighborhood to neighborhood community to community fighting. hamas' ability to launch rockets, correct? >> it isn't only neighborhood to neighborhood, it is underground.

the hamas infrastructure here is in tunnels. so those rockets that we see, the people firing them, they aren't walking down the block, finding the rocket launcher and pressing a button, they are getting there. so if israel does have the intention of removing those launchers and removing the people access to the launchers this is a underground wall, as much as it is overground, and that is extremely difficult. i think it is very important to point out, and by the way, i am looking over the skyline right now and seeing a number of flairs from that corner, that northeast corner. that we talked about, about hue many strikes from the israelis have been there, and rockets have been launched there, so clearly a lot of movement. we are also seeing major firing from the scene, like bright lights nighing across the sky, landing in neighborhoods. of course you can't see exactly where they land. the impact on grass zahns

has already been massive. more than 1200 wounded more than 200 killed. that's just from the air. this is the most densely populated place on the planet, and inevitably, a lot of targets are inside of neighborhoods. a lot of people have no capacity to leave, israelis have blocked their path out to the east, there's a wall to the south egypt has blocked them, and to west a mediterranean sea, so as i am watching even more fliers fly across the sky, more targeting by missles fires by israeli planes and israeli ships, that is

the concern tonight. that you could get up to the point in 2008-2009, when 2,000 were killed. >> we want to read the statement from the israeli military, and then i have a question for you. the defense forces i.d.f., as initiated a ground operation within the gaza strip. to establish a reality in which israeli residents can live in safety and security without continuing indiscriminate terror. we have some reporting that we don't have confirmation just yet of ground forcing actual

soldiers crossing flu say the crossing or amphibious units having landed onshore. can you update that? that ground troops have actually entered gaza? >> no, no. we have no confirmation of that, no would the military tell me. the closest thing we have, is journalists were given 30 minutes to evacuate their hotel on the coast. and that was about 20 or 25 minutes ago. so you may see something happen on the beach, of course, no journalist would be there to witness it. and what i am seeing up in that northeast area, is more and more flairs. so what the military will do is fire those so the troops can see, see where they are going, and see anything that may be in front of them, so the more flairs we see, and i am hooking at one very

very bright one, these light up two or 34 miles. the more we see of those, the more likely it is that those drop will be entering. but we don't have any independent confirmation. >> appreciate it, thank you. >> he is in gaza, and we will be poll hing developments throughout the afternoon there. what are your thoughts on the news that israel is maybe moments away from launching it's ground offensive in gaza? >> well, from my understanding the operation is actually begun. i think this is something that israel very much wanted to avoided. and the prime minister had demonstrated great

restraint until now. you have to understand, that the rocket fire isn't something that began in the last few days. it wasn't something that as a result of the military activity, this has been going on with increasing intensity for the last few months. in fact, the last year. it maz been going on since 2001. since hamas started firing rockets we are talking a total today of give or take 12,000 rockets. ins a situation that is simply intolerable. >> right. >> so try to put it in perspective for americans i would say imagine if the mexican city on the canadian border were firing rockets that were covering most of the united states. that is simply unacceptable and intolerable, and israel has no choice but to do something here. >> at this point, there is one -- my understanding is one

confirmed israeli death, and at this point, close to 200 gazans are dead at this point. are you -- let me just ask the question -- may i ask the question, just wondering are you concern of the proportionality, are you concerned about what is the inevitable loss of civilian lives dru this ground offensive. just a question. >> no, look, i great hi regret and truly regret any loss of civilian life, or for that matter military life on any side of the border or any conflict, that's not the point here, and the so called proportionality issue. the purpose of action is to win, it is not to be proportion gnat or be nice. 12,000 rockets on israel, what they do is pure

terrorism, these aren't designed to these are weapons -- the civilian population and cause civilian death. and at the same time, not only do they attack israelis but they embed their weapons. they imbed their weapons with their own populations. there is a tragic, but unavoidable loss of life. and we take enormous measures to try to minimize it. >> and there is nothing legal about what hamas is doing, everybody in the world would agree there's nothing legal about what hamas is doing firing rockets. i do wonder, given that israel is a signatory to the geneva conventions does it have a responsibility to protect civilian life at times in connect in war?

no other military in the work has taken the kind of effort to prevent civilian death. repeated warnings terming them to move out of areas that may be struck. warning people to things that may happen, that's why people are leaving the areas that are under attack, given a warning two days ago asking them to move out. >> to go where? this' a limit to where you can do? >> they can move to other parts of gaza. but you are right, there's a problem here. it isn't responsible for, which is that

unfortunately, the ruler are using their people as human shields. and what they have done in the last few days is issued this warning is they have done exactly the opposite. they have asked people to stay there. >> yeah, i have seen those reports. so chuck, we have been here time and time again, where we get to this place where there's a ground offensive. most recently 2008-2009. isn't it time for both sides the shouted at one another, they have fired rockets and missle strikes, haven't we some to the point where it is time for these two sides to finally figure out a way to end this psych and to talk to one another? there's no greater supporter of peace than myself. the problem is hamas is an organization hamas'

charter called uses apes and dogs. this isn't just some organization, this isn't just another adversary, this is a fundamentally again side call organization. whose object save to destroy israel. now, if they want to change their approach, wonderful. they can we can sit and talk about it, i am all for it. the question is with that kind of organization. all i can tell you is i have not talked to a single analyst that says there is a way to get a peace agreement done in that region without hamas being at the tight. take, and i understand the language that goes back and forth, i have not talked to a single amist that has said to me that this is even a possibility of a peace agreement without hamas being at the table. that's ali offer to you,

i am not asking for a response, if you have one, great. in which hamas recently sign add reconciliation agreement. they are israel partners for peace at the negotiation. now, if hamas is willing to change it's approach, and it isn't just rhetoric on both sides of course there's rhetoric on both sides there always is. the formal here, is the palestinian authority. unfortunately, the peace talks that were underway between israel and the p.a., under american offices have failed. i hope they get underway again and succeed. >> and now we are at a

place where the two sides within the palestinian territories, the p.a., are frying to form a unity government, and the indications that we get from israel is that any unity government that includes hamas is not a government we will have a conversation with. so we are back at the start. >> yes. that has been the position. certainly not everyone in israel agrees with that position. but again, my own personal belief is that if hamas is able to change it's approach, and then there's the question what the p.a., what they want to bring them in in a serious way. but that's a question for the palestinians.

they have to deal with that one government, the existing agreement, and willing to make it -- >> minimalist -- pretty minimalist conditions are met. >> chuck, appreciate it, that's a long time for you to be on television without a picture of you, and not to have in you in front of your camera, but we appreciate your patience and talking to us. he is a former senior analyst at the israel ministry of defense. and he was a deputy, deputy national security adviser, let's take a break, more of our continuing story of the two big stories today, malaysian mane down, and the start of the ground defensive in gaza. back in a moment.eir voice,

and al jazeera america

is doing just that. welcome back, everyone. question are following two major stories at this hour. it is just after 11:30 a.m. in gaza. the move comes after ten days of israeli air strikes in gaza, and hamas firing rockets into israel, but we begin with our other top story, the crash of malaysian airline in eastern ukraine, now the boeing triple seven with 295 people onboard was flying from amsterdam. air traffic controllers lost radar contact with the border near russia, this video is said to be of the wreckage of that plane.

an emergency services worker told the reuters news agency, at least 100 bodies have been found so far. ukrainian officials say the plane was shot down, so far there is no outside confirmation of that, although that might be about to change here. the aircraft went down in an area controlled by pro russian separatist. if the plane was shot down, it may have been shot down by a medium range surface to aramisle system. the pentagon says it has a range of 20 mimes. nato viewed the system as a threat to smart bombs and fixed wing aircraft. now the bok system including a target acquisition radar vehicle, however, it can also be linked with a radar system. president addressed the crash, saying the incident looks like it may be a terrible tragedy, the malaysian

prime minister is speaking out, or has just spoken -- is speaking now let's go to ma play sha now. in the last few hours, malaysian officials have been in constant contact with their counter parts in ukraine and elsewhere. >> and i will be speaking to a number of world leaders over the coming hours. >> i have had several conversations. with the prime minister of the netherlands. i have also spoken to the president of ukraine. he has pledged that there will be a fum, thorough, and independent investigation. the ukraine also confirm

that this government will negotiate with rebels in the east of the country in order to establish a humanitarian corridor to the crash site. just now i received a call from president obama. he and i both agree that a investigation must not be hippedderred in anyway. an international team, must have full access to the crash site. and no one should interfere with the area or remove any debris, including the black becomes. this is a tragic day, in which has already been a tragic year for malaysia.

as we work to understand what happened, our thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of those onboard the flight. i cannot imagine what they must be going through, at this time. the flights passengers and crew, came from many different countries. but today, ratter legislation of nationality, we are all you nighted in grief. thank you. >> . >> he received a call from president obama, offering his thoughts his condolences. the government is. promising as best it can,

to launch a full investigation. it will be difficult, because this is rebel controlled territory at the moment. and there you are looking at the video of what reports to be smoke from that plane going down. take a break, we will be back with more reaction, in just a moment this is al jazeera america.

>> now inroducing, the new al jazeea america mobile news app. get our exclusive in depth, reporting when you want it. a global perspective wherever you are. the major headlines in context. mashable says... you'll never miss the latest news >> they will continue looking for suvivors... >> the potential for energy production is huge... >> no noise, no clutter, just real reporting. the new al jazeera america mobile app, available for your apple and android mobile device. download it now president obama addressed the malaysian airline crash, saying it looks hike it may be a terrible tragedy. a understatement at this point. in washington with more on what the vice

president had to say about this, mike? >> they are traveling out of the white house out of washington today, the president stopping in delaware, he spoke briefly about the unfolding tragedy before an event on infrastructure on highways. he offed assistance of the government, the expertise and experience of the ntsb and other investigative agencies. trying to confirm the number of americans on that plane, that number still up in the air. traveling to detroit health for another previously scheduled visit, and speech, but at the top of his remarks he counted the conversation he had this morning, evidently he has now agreed to invite in u.s. investigators and biden

also had something to say about the origin or the cause of this crash. let's listen. >> we don't have all the detail yet, apparently, had been shot down, shot down, not an accident. blown out of the sky. we have seen reports that there may have been american citizens onboard. and obviously, that's our first concern. and we are now working every minute to try to confirm those reports as i speak. this is truly a grave situation. nearly 300 souls have been lost, the families, the consolation, and our prayers and there are many questions that need to be answered and we will get those answers and take it to the next

steps accordingly. we are in touch with the government as i said, i was on the phone for half an hour, with the president, i have spoken with our president, as i have been in contact with our president as well as our national security team. i offered the president the help of our expertise, our national safety group and other experts in the community. he accepted that help, and they h be on their way rapidly to see if we can get to the bottom of this. on our air, say he has spoken himself with president obama while the president is out of town,

both agreed the investigation must not be hindered in any way, and promised a full and impartial investigation. now, we have seen a briefing for members of con, members of the senate i should say, behind closed doors many of them emerging saying they are now convinced that it was a missile that brought down that malaysian rainer. she would not go that far on camera, but she says it is clear that russia has been escalated it's support over the last several months. that could mean a lot of things and it was john mccain who has been the most outspoken here this morning. relatively restrained reaction, as details are emerging. they say if russia or russian separatists are responsible, there will

be hell to pay. >> what does that mean? from john mccain, all right, mike, appreciate it. so much speculation that the plane was brought down by a surface to aramis salt lake, we just heard from the site president, and he had all kinds of disclaimers. where does he get that from? >> and a little more certainty from members of congress, a couple of different places we know the administration had a military briefing which one would presume would include satellite data, that part of eastern ukraine has been under close monitoring that's how the obama administration knew there was more equipment crossing the border and therefore they slapped new sanctions on russia.

we warn them don't fly in our sky, and then he says here is the video confirmation, the bird fell beyond the heap but does not damage the sector, they then led to the youtube video that a lot of people have seen, which is of the smoke coming from from this plane crashed. there you have a rebel commander bragging saying we shot down a plane, and then it turns out well, it wasn't a ukrainian plane it was a malaysian jetliner, the ukrainian government, that their security services interintercepted rebel phone calls in this area, who went to this debris field, expecting to find debris from the military aircraft. and then called back to their counter parts. expressing their surprise

that this was a commercial jetliner. and one of them is closing as what the hell was it doing over this air space, this is a war. what it was doing there is flying and obviously somewhere it would seem, mistook this for being a ukrainian aircraft, and instead -- and shot it down not realizing until they got to the scene that it is a commercial jetliner. >> so we are getting all this information, and starting to put together some kind of a pusle. i know you have been doing work on this as well. the system that seems to be the time of system responsibility, how would pro russian rebels separatist get their hands on a pretty sophisticated piece of equipment? >> the last couple of weeks there have been media reports that essentially bragged about the fact that rebellings have this system.

so you have the russian media saying yes, they have it, and then by the way, three weeks ago, you have rebel commanders bragging and showing reporters the system they had just captured from installation that had belonged to the military. the question is did they provide the training and the help to do this, one more point, all of this information, all these bits and pieces are being shared with members of congress, members of congress are being urged don't jump to any conclusions just yet, let the administration figure out what our policy is going to be. that's why john mccain is out there, but nobody else is going that far, even though they have the same intelligence that suggests this was in fact, a missle fired by separatist pro-russian separatist at a mane they thought was the ukrainian aircraft. >> absolutely. david, appreciate it. want to get to boston

now, and tim walsh, he is an expert at the massachusets institute of technology, security studies program. jim, always great to talk to you. i will start with you here, and then pick up our conversation on the top of the hour. could it surprise you that the pro-russian separatist would be able to get their hands on a system hike the bok system? >> it does, and for the reason we have seen today, that they could mess it up, and take down a liner. now as we have known for weeks now, the russians have been supplying tanks and armors vehicles and other equipment, when you start to get into ground to aramisles you crossing into a different category all together.

your thoughts on do you believe that the evidence the bits and pieces coming together, hooking at the debris field, to you conclude that this was -- we heard a lot of disclaimers and cav yets from the vice president. do you believe that this malaysia airline flight was shot down? >> normally i am a cautious guy, i am leaning forward on this, yeah, it was shot down. and i say that -- partly because obviously it broke up in air, an airplane can break up for a lot ofen ares but that's a very rare occurrence, and it seems to me it's over a conflict zone, in which a plane has already been shot down traveling at 20,000 feet. so, i think you have to show me strong evidence that this isn't the case at this point.

jim, we will talk to you again on the other side of the break, we are back in a moment, and when we rejoin you, at the top of the hour, we will continue the coverage of the two big breaking news stories, of course, we will continue our coverage of the malaysia airline flight. brought down apparently now. all signs seem to indicate that it was shot down from the sky. they suggest it was brought down by pro russian separatist. the other big story, of course, is the beginning of a ground offensive by the israeli military, in gaza, way are back in a moment, again that ground offensive is now officially underway. back in a e. mo.