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tv   Fault Lines  Al Jazeera  July 17, 2014 5:30pm-6:01pm EDT

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. >> we are also following breaking from gaza where it is mid night. israel has launched an offensive inside gaza. and hamas firing rockets into israel. israeli troops have moved into
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multiple locations in gaza. the troops are attacking many locations including tunnels in gaza. all ground troops will be supported by aerial and naval @assets. israel has called up 40,000 troops, and israel is urging gaza residents to evacuate the areas where they're operating. let's get back to nick schifrin. he is in gaza. you mentioned this earlier, and it is a part a facet of this ground operation. it is above ground and it is taking place in the tunnels of gaza as well. >> reporter: yes, the infrastructure that hamas uses and other fighting groups use to launch rockets into israel is based on tunnels. these fighters are not walking to the rocket launchers making a right and making a left and firing
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from the street. they're getting there from the tunnels. if israel's stated goal is accurate, and they're going to follow through, that would require not only an incursion, that will require israeli troops on the ground in gaza going after the rocket launcher sites. that's what they're saying they are going to do. and if we take them for their word that is going to be a long operation, that's the main point. it's going to be a civilian areas because many of the rocket launchers are surrounded, and it will be very difficult for the people of gaza. there is nowhere to go. you know, a lot of people call this prison because they can't go east. so there is not a lot of places
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to go as the israeli troops apparently come in from multiple spots. >> nick, what happened to diplomacy? >> reporter: well, diplomacy is not dead. that's important to say. u.s. officials i think one senior official is relatively caught off guard. i think it's okay for me to say that. that indicates not necessarily that the whole u.s. was caught off guard, but there was a momentum that the u.s. officials believed was happening, and it was not necessarily going to lead to this. once the government, the israeli government decided to go in, that, of course, changes the air of diplomacy. it doesn't end it, but the israelis you n now are in, and they're going to pursue their goals. that means if they pursue their goals to the end, to the point that they are reached diplomacy
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will have to be put on hold simply because it doesn't take two hours to do what they want to do. that said secretary of state john kerry was on the phone with prime minister benjamin netanyahu in the last hour, and he was on the verge of flying here in order to negotiate or help negotiate a permanent cease-fire which was being discussed this morning. there was the notion that the momentum was positive. that means that there is still diplomacy to be had, there are still people on the table talking about various initiatives, but the israeli army has decided this is now the priority for us, and we will do whatever we want for the next however long we want to. that's what's going to happen next. >> what does the recent history suggest to us about the stated goal and whether that stated goal is materially reached, for example, this idea of the
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operation continuing until hamas' ability to launch rockets is essentially decapitated. what is the history of these conflicts in 2008 and 2009. tell us about that goal and whether that goal is likely to be reached given the history of the conflict. >> reporter: you don't even need to reach back too far. in the last ten days the israeli military has said that it intended to stop fighters from launching rockets. the israelis have launched 1500 strikes to do that. today between 3:00 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. there was over a hundred rocket launched. they said their goal is going to be met through this ground operation. to actually eliminate the
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capacity for these fighters to fire rockets you have to eliminate these tunnels, which are a maze under gaza city, and you have to eliminate the actual locations from which the rocket fired. that means an incursion, an invasion. whether the israeli cabinet has approved that specific thing we don't know and they wouldn't tell us, but certainly they have made the step and a very large step towards getting to the point where they can feel that their ground troops can actually execute the mission that their air force could not. >> exactly. >> that's the main appointment. and in the past israeli has tried to do this. regardless of what has happened in the past or the last ten
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days, nothing has happened to keep them from launching rockets. >> nick, thank you. u.n. general secretary ban ki-moon announced imminent ground offensive. >> israel has averaged a ground offensive against gaza. i you regret that despite my repeated urgings, and those world leaders together on already dangerous conflict has now escalated even further. the past 24 hours there have been a number of incidents involving the death of civilia civilians, including the killing of children in gaza strip. there can be no military
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solution to this conflict. >> that is u.n. secretary general ban ki-moon. we have a statement i want to share with you from the israeli military: >> we're going take a break and we'll come back on this big story and the shootdown of malaysian airline flight 317.
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>> okay, so we're following two big stories at this hour. it's after midnight in gaza why israeli troops have begun a ground offensive, a and our other top story of the crash of malaysia flight 317. it is still safe to call it a crash at this point as we continue to get information ass to what happened and who might be responsible. within the last hour russian president vladimir putin said that ukraine was to blame because of the ongoing conflict with separatists. the plane was headed east across europe on a very popular flight path when malaysia airlines says
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air traffic controllers lost control of it near ukraine's border with russia. i'll go to david shuster now. david, the vice president has made a statement, and you have away got additional information in a seems to support what the vice president has been saying. >> reporter: the news is tel ling is officials are telling us that they do have proof that the information is inconclusive as to the exact precise location of the missile launch. the administration is not willing to say this is who is responsible for the missile launch but they will say it was brought down by a missile. that's why you have the caveat and the statement of an apparent shootdown. furthermore the intelligence agency said there is no information that this was a deliberate targeting of a
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jetliner but this was a mistake of some type. perhaps rebel fighters. the intelligence community are not willing to say that these were separatists who did this, but the indications being that the rebel fighters thought that they were targeting an ukraine military aircraft. now over the past several weeks there have been a number of reports in russian news agencies that were gloating about the separatists having this type of equipment, than gloating came as the ukrainian military were making advances over the past couple of week. all of a sudden you see this gloating that, hey, the russian backed forces that they have the ability to bring down aircraft. they brought down ukrainian fighter jet on wednesday, so their ithe theory is some how the separatist group got their
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hands on sophisticated equipment, had some success in their minds and thought they were bringing down ukrainian aircraft. there is intelligence suggestion from ukrainian intelligence that they have intercepted phone calls between separatist groups who were surprised when they got to the scene of what they thought was evidence of an ukrainian military plane and found that there were civilian--indications that this was a civilian jet liner. >> here's the thing, you can't have worked at the factory in donetsk one day and then decide to become a rebel fighter and then end up with your handed on this system. now you're trained to launch it. so here again we've got a situation where it's one thing to have it. it's another thing to have the expertise to operate it. even if you're making a mistake like this. >> right, and to put this in context the russians are getting embarrassed because their separatists are starting to lose the battle in the last couple of weeks. more equipment gets to the hands
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of the splittists. the more equipment they have, whether it's captured from a military installation, do the russians provide the manpower and expertise to use this missile system, and was this a case on orders of the separatist, hey, this is another ukrainian plane, let's take it out and was is something saying this is how you pull the trigger and set up the system. but as tensions have been getting worse, and has they have been able helping with the escalating fight, is this type of equipment something that russia actually helped them operate and by mistake take down a commercial jetliner when they were intended to target a yo ukrainian military aircraft. >> not going so far as to suggest who is responsible, but
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then there is the question of the investigation as to what happened here. and you know as well as i do this is a plane that went down in rebel-controlled territory. the idea of who would be able to get there, is it in the interest of the rebels? is it in the interest of the russians to facilitate a clean investigation of what happened here? >> tony, never mind the black boxes that would tell us information about the data and what happened to the plane, but as lisa stark was pointing out earlier on the air you can tell based on--if you could examine the debris and pull pieces of debris there is a tell tale sign when a plane is brought down with a missile. investigators know how to do these investigations and to piece the evidence together. it's not clear that the russians know how to do this, or if they would have the same interest of a clean investigation that can
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be accepted by the world. that's why you hear so many western agencies today. transportation agencies intelligence agencies expressing grave alarm that they cannot get to the scene. rebels are preventing them from getting there. this is causing great consternation at the white house as we speak. >> there were presenters who said that they felt it was inconclusive, and then there are statements coming yo coming out. i'm thinking of senator john mccain. >> yes, he said if it does turn out to be rebel separatists who have shot down this plane they will need to take stringent
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action. we'll tell you what the latest qualified briefings, and we're asking in exchange that you members in congress figure out time of what we're going to say to russian vladimir putin. they have breathing room, but they've asked for particular action. >> thank you. we're relying a bit on our assets from al jazeera english. god to have al jazeera english a as a broadcast partner. we want to go out to the crash site, and scott heidler filed this report. >> reporter: we're seeing four di distinct debris fields.
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that is the malaysian 777 crash site. up the street on the left-hand side what would appear to be the fuselage, it was still smoldering just a couple of minutes ago. clearly there was a baggage hold there because we could see books, tourist books, someone who is obviously on their way to bali for vacation. children toys. and this is a farmer's field. another farmer's field on the other side. a road going down and then further down beyond that there is another chunk of the fuselage. that was smoldering. it was smoldering when we arrived and it recaught on fire. the fire brigade had to put it out. they're telling us 10 kilometers circumference is where the debris landed in these fields.
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there were rescue officials when we were here, but they were dark and so they're not doing much. they weren't doing much then and they weren't doing much now. they have told us that they have not found the black box. they have not removed any of the bodies. they said they're going to invite international parties to come in for an investigation. the self-proclaimed prime minister of the dontesk people's republic said he will open it up to international investigators. this is where we get into touchy territory. this is the part of the country that is under control of armed separatist fighters. ukrainian government is not going to be able to come in here, at least, that's what he's saying now. this is where we're having serious discussions and allowing
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these organizations to come if here. this aircraft was flying through ukrainian air space. do in the allow ukrainian officials to come in and it will hamper it to some degree. >> just to button up the reporting there from scott heidler, it is suggested very strongly that malaysia airlines flight 317 was shot down, although it's not suggesting which party was responsible for shooting down the commercial airliner in eastern ukraine as you take a look at the debris field. it's a wide, expansive debris field. as many as 300 people are reportedly on that flight. the number we're get something 295. we'll continue to develop stories and the latest information on had story. we'll take a break. and when we come back we'll take you live to gaza.
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>> we're following breaking news from gaza why israeli has just launched an offensive. the government has given an approval to call up 18,000 reservists. that's on top of the 40,000 the army has already called to duty. the move follows fen days of israel conducting airstrikes in gaza and hamas firing rockets into israel. here's what we know about the israeli ground offensive at this moment. officials have confirmed to al jazeera that israeli troops have moved into multiple locations in gaza. a military spokesman said that the troops are attacking many locations including tunnels in gaza. all ground troops will be supported by aerial and naval
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assets. a number of reservists that the army has called up is 58,000. the launch of the offensive comes after five-hour truce. there was a five-hour truce earlier today. israel has urged gazaens to evacuate. nick schifrin is in gaza, and if you would, nick, give us a sense of what you're hearing, what you're seeing around you there in gaza. >> tony, if you can just look behind me, we see a few lights off in the distance, and maybe you were able to hear those booms off into the distance. let's be frank there is a lot of action. we've seen a few things. we've seen flairs from israeli forces on the border of gaza. it lights up that corner. we were talking about the northeast corner of gaza.
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that's over my left shoulder. they throw up flairs, and the israeli troops are moving across the border so they can go as far as they want. those flares light up three or four miles. we see artillery. something that the israeli military would use if the target was, for example, 200 meters, 300 meters, even as far as three miles away. that will lay the ground for israeli troops to come in. we also heard an about a rectangle from the sea. these are big heavy shells coming out of ships, israeli ships right off the coast of the mediterranean which is about a half mile that way. those are targeting those rocket launchers. you could probably hear the booms. that is israeli forces either moving in or creating some kind of path to move in. all of those booms are from israel, and i must say that we haven't heard any rockets in the last couple of hours.
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>> so nick, what is the mission as stated by the israeli military? what's the goal here? >> reporter: the goal from the prime minister's office is to take out the tunnels that fighters have used to get from gaza into israel, as well as the rocket launchers. the communication minister has gone one step further in the last few minutes. he said quote, the goal is to demilitarize the gaza strip. really, they are not that different. it's the ability to fire rockets from gaza into israel, and those tunnels are necessary for that as well the tunnels are used by fighters to get from gaza into israel. the demilitarization of the gaza strip is a political suggestion. that's something where hamas really has to decide that they have to demilitarize, otherwise they don't have a notion. the motion of the israeli
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military forcebly demilitarizing the entire strip would require r evacuation. most of these targets are in residential neighborhoods, they are in civilian areas. you mentioned before the military has asked people to leave those areas, but there is nowhere to go. to my left there is a wall there. to my right, that's the mediterranean, that's the sea. that way is egypt and that is closed to the north. that is israel. and there are not a lot of places to go. and that's why we've seen over 50% of those who have been wounded in the last ten days, and the fear, of course, is as this incursion comes deeper into gaza those numbers of wounded women, children, civilians in
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general will increase. >> is there a democratic solution in the of f-ing here? >> reporter: yes, well, i think what u.s. officials in the middle of it are telling me yes there is still a diplomatic opening. one of them was relatively surprised by this incursion. so there is a notion that in cairo, which is the intermediatary, that officials from hamas, the american officials certainly israeli delegation that is through will over the last day or so, those negotiations are ongoing. as we discussed earlier the israeli military has made a decision to go in. even if the politicians, even if the diplomats are discussing some kind of cease-fire, the fact that the military is here. the fact that the language is so specific about demilitarizing gaza taking away, quote, once and for all the an ability to
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fire rockets at gaza, right now the military is doing the diplomacy on the ground. that means that even if you were to start having progress about a cease-fire, it wouldn't be about the opening or pause, it is required to actually stop the fighting. the fight something going to increase. the diplomacy is going to increase, and really it depends on how far the israeli military is going to go to pursue it's goals. >> everyone knows that what hamas has been doing, firing rockets in to israel is deplorable, illegal, i'm wondering what life is going to be like for civilians in gaza? i'm thinking about electricity. i'm thinking about water. are we looking at even a deepening humanitarian crisis there? >> reporter: let's just say this, before the invasion there was a humanitarian crisis.
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$80million, that number is 36 hours old now that was needed to fill gaps. for example, the lack of medicine. parts of the gaza strip lose electricity 12 hours a day. as you see behind me some of the lights are on but you can point this way for a second. you can see that, all of the lights, hundreds of thousands of people are under blackout right now. so yes, there is a humanitarian crisis here. according to the u.n. that will only get worse. officials warn if this incursion is as big as israelis are-- >> nick, we appreciate it. we'll take a break and come back with more. this is al jazeera america. western reporter there in that part of ukraine at the crash site, reporting on the downing of that malaysian airlines passenger jet. let's go to our diplomatic editor james bays joining us live from london.
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