carry on the missing of uncovering mercury's mysteries. tom ackerman, al jazeera, laurel, maryland. >> you can always stay with al jazeera for more on our top story on the conflict in gaza. also, get details from our website at aljazeera.com. i am lisa fletcher and you are this. today thousands of minors are . >> hi. i am lease alone and ending up in shelters under federal custody. just how unanticipated was the surge and subsequent shellerring crisis. plus undocumented pima frayed to report crimes because of their immigration status. how that fear could be turning their communities in to targets. and later, rogue soldiers in the mexican army. confrontations between border protection and mexican soldier on his u.s. soil. sometimes resulting in attacks on american citizens. what's going on?

♪ ♪ this has been a conversation in america for you last few weeks, but what is interesting is who knew about this ahead of time? >> three words explosive in the u.s. politics, board, he undocumented and immigration. we have all three in today's discussion. we shared all of this with our community and as you can imagine it diverse opinions. sal thinks it's not complicated it's easy just tell people don't break the law. however, sergio says i crossed back in the united states in order to legally resolve my illegal status. however, i would see why people have a lot of misconception. speaking about the debate. sends them all back where they came from, lisa.

and and a response from wendy. really, fred? might i ask where in hell did your parents come from. hunsaker doesn't sound native indian and it's been like that all day. >> we are all familiar as we mentioned with the surge of unaccompanied minors crossing the mexican border in the u.s. right now. as federal agencys drug toll properly care for these young people. there is a suggestion this crisis was more orchestrated than it appears. the department of homeland security was quick to recognize the severity of the situation as more information about the temporary housing conditions emerged. >> this is a problem of humanitarian proportions. in thissest our goal to quickly and safely transports the unaccompanied children out of cvb custody not hands of ahs. supplementing the process all along the way . >> many of the young people came from countries other than mexico like honduras and el salvador legally complicated ability to

just sends them back over the border. critics of the obama administration's response says there is no way the influx could come as a surprise, even going so far to say it's being used as political maneuver. how does america deal with what is estimated as 1,000 children a day. how can the administration close the flood gates joining us us is an immigration attorney who has done extensive work on cases with children in detention centers. on describe, president and ceo of the u.s. commit foy refugees and immigrants. out of miami florida, aj delgado a writer, activist and contributor to the compassional review. and from college station texas, jose luis, he is originally from honduras and crossed the border as an unaccompanied minor in 2000. thanks to awful you for joining us. linda you are in texas where this issue is there ofoegbu topic every

day. did anyone see this coming . >> i assume it did since it happened two years ago when it had to be opened for the surge that year, i am not sure what happened since we never heard anything about it last year. it's a bit of a mystery . >> in 2012 there was a huge certainly is he border. you were actually there, weren't you? >> i was. in 2012 i was one of two attorneys that actually went there and interviewed several of the children. even then there was no real explanation other than the explanation that we hear now that children are fleeing their countries and in some sway unifying with their parents here. it doesn't explain the astronomical number of 60,000 that they anticipated this year, which was what they used as the number last year for this year. so it would seem that they knew that this was going to happen.

a camp in waco was opened in march that housed 500 children. but that kind of slipped beneath the radar. again, we are a little bit con feuds about how thiconfused abog managed and what the real numbers are. >> you served as the director of the office refugees resettlement under president clinton. do you have any explanation as to why the numbers are so extraordinarily high? back in 2005, there were about 700 in orr's care and now we are looking at numbers that are expo fen shaly higher than that? >> that's right. in 2012, we had like 12,000 kids which we thought was sort of amazing. then it 20 up to 32,000 that was the year that linda was referencing, and when it had to be opened and then orr responded and managed to handle the 32,000 then this year it's looking at over 60. next year they are estimating at 130 something.

>> what's the trigger? >> well, the trigger is the push factors. when you talk to the children, and the children will tell you, that they are leaving because of the violence at home. they are leaving and they are not just coming to america, they are also going south. they are going in to other central american countries. they are asking for asylum in mexico. so, you know, of course about 40% of them have family here in the united states. but parents, and because we haven't done anything about our immigration reform in the last 20 something years, these kids have been separated from their parents. so you know, but they are fleeing and they are going to where they can find safety. and people have to remember that honduras is like the murder capital of the world. and it's kind of like shall i stay home and where i am not safe where i am being presseded in for gangs, being raped, which i might be killed or shall i

take this very dangerous journal and i they know it's a dangerous journal and i try to find some safety. >> president obama called the situation an urgent humanitarian situation, lease a47000 undocumented minors have crossed over in 2014 alone. our community is asking what should we do the kids here, ashley on facebook . we >> 47,000 undocumented minors

have come here in 2014 alone. what do you recommend that the united states do? >> it's estimated two be about 80,000 this year from the last figures i saw. i know it may sound callus but we simply can't afford to keep these children here or at least give them the benefit that we plan on giving them, food, shelter, even free lawyers, the obamaed administration just asked for $2 million for free legal aid for these children. it would be wonderful for welcome everyone who would like to come to the unite u.s. to bee to do so but as some of the social media folks viewing pointed out, we simply can't afford it. we have children we need to take care of that are american children. and the amount of benefits as i said that we are asking for $1.9 billion to ab prop rate today their food and shelter it's something that we can't afford . in a perfect world it would be wilbelovely to provide fem themt we can't do it. >> i want to back up to something that lavinia was saying when i asked about what

was the trigger now, mentioned honduras being the murder capital of the world, crime, violence, horrendous conditions. that is nothing new, it's been going for a very long time. >> exactly. >> and there is and there was speculation this is more, he straighted than americans are being led to believe. it's being done for political gain or maneuvering. do you think there is any truth to that? >> absolute. it's not really violence that is the trigger. i have friends from honduras that have told me it's a very violent nation, this is nothing new. you have to ask what changed that folks are now crossing the borders in huge numbers. it's the deferred action. the talk of amnesty. i have spoeg tone friends of my who are border agent who work on the border and i have asked chem what do they folks tell you as the reason they are come over. all site the amnesty. they are being told in their home country.

go america, they are not going to deport you, especially children they are not deporting them. it goes back to the deferred action program. still they are coming over because of the amnesty talk that's been going on under the obama administration and the did he material that was just renewed for another two years, of course there is a trigger and it's not the violence in latin america it's always been there. it's the amnesty talk, it's the amnesty pro proposal. it's the lack of administration. >> you came across the boarder as a young pen and you 13e7b9 two months ispent twomonths in . what drew you here and what was your experience in the eight weeks while you were being held? >> for sure, i remember being five years old and seeing my mother hold my younger broker who novembers dead he died in her arms because we didn't have money to take him to the hospital. poverty, violence, i was a victim of gang violence, i was being shot, stabbed for simply being a kid. and i my great today the u.s. in a journey that was horrible.

i seen little girls being abused by the [inaudible] and people losing their lives and i made it the to the united states and i am a ph.d student at the university of texas and it's the violence and the war that is happening among people in honduras and central america that is causing children to come to reunify with their families and that's what i d i came to the u.s. to reunify with my mother and now i am a ph.d student at texas a & m university. >> enrique tweets in: >> we just got that question from our community. how can the united states begin to address root causes for migration from central america and linda i want to go to you with that question? >> i agree. i think the programs that seemed to have a great benefit across

the board have really indirectly and unfairly affected in a negative way our neighbors to the south in many ways. competition now has driven farmers out of the ability to even maintain their own food for their own families let alone maintain a country. and i think one of the other issues that we are seeing is i agree we cannot afford to continue handling the situation this way. but that, for me, is the core problem. we do not have to be housing unnecessarily the children and adults the way that we are. there is a bed caught a of 34,000 per day at $159 that congress is supporting and has supported for adults and that doesn't even include what it's costing for children. we should fingerprint them, make sure that they are not a threat to national security, of course keep the board secure, but then put an ankle bracelet on them and let them reunify with their family. go through the system. deferred action has nothing do with this.

since you had to be in the country prior to 2007 to even qualify for that. amnesty -- >> they don't know that. >> these are children. >> you were assume that go that message has gotten to honduras and el salvador. aj do you think it has? >> that's exactly the problem is they are not being told. and they don't know the details that you do have to be here for five years to qualify for that, et cetera. they are just being told for instance, i believe it was el salvador's largest newspaper is constantly report on the ground if you have children go to the u.s., they will be given a free pass, given amnesty. none of the details and the eligibility requirements are reported on. they are told if you sends your children over they can stay and be provided for. it's misinformation. >> go ahead. >> lisa, i think it's really important to understand that the movement of children is not just this phenomenon. it's a worldwide phenomenon. europe is struggling with the fact that children are trying to get from syria, from

libya, from subsaharan africa in to europe. we are struggling with this. you know, the closer a refugee emergency is to the united states, the less like we are to call them refugees. you know, like when the haitians were coming they are not refugees. when the cubans come, we call them refugees because of our politics. but we didn't call the salvador vinnies refugees in the '80s when they were fleeing that civil war. we are not calling these people ref refugees when they are fleeing dissolution of their government, the government cannot protect them down there. why are those governments so weak? there are lots of reasons not to forget the drug trade which, of course, we finance by our behavior. and so, you know, i think it's time for people to understand that when a refugees crisis happens near our borders they are in fact, refugees, they are not some scum undocumented immigrants that we can't afford to help.

there is 80,000 children, that's not even the number of people who show up for an nba game. >> i don't think anybody is -- i don't think anybody is calling these children scum. i think america is one of the most companionate countries on the planet. but i do think there is a real issue here and jose i want you to respond to this. there is an intersection for americans between compassion and the realities of economics. and we are talking about 50,000 people virtually in a couple of months that now we have to find a way to take care of. and take care of in a way that meets the standards of companionate americans. how do we do that? how do we move forward from this point in a way that makes sense for everybody? >> i think that it's important for us to understand that, number one, these are children. these are children that are coming from countries such as their parents are making $2 a day in order to work but get gas is $4 a gallon. you are talking about honduras being the main exporter of

bananas yet they don't have bananas. my country where people make clothing yet we don't have clothing for us to wear and gangs are killing our people. and yet we are my great to go a country of opportunities and these people are treated in these detentions horribly, [inaudible] per thousand students. we were only allowed to see the sunlight one hour a week. we were allowed to drink water three times a day. but we were thank. that we had a place to sleep and a place to drink and shower. but these children can become a huge opportunity for the united states economy to grow. i am a witness of what these children can become. they are cabable of becoming ph.d students i am not just saying it, i have done it. i came to the united states and i am a ph.d student now. >> but jose, when you talk about the conditions in nations where it's $2 a day for your wages and $4 for gas. why that the american taxpayers' problem, though? i understand they are terrible

conditions there but why should the american taxpayer footbility, for folks like you yourself and i commend your you for that. jose i will give you 15 seconds to is answer that then we have to it's hit the break? >> because we have a lot of work being done in honduras that it's been fitting the american people and we are being paid nothing. and we are not getting a part of the share and we want the opportunity to also live a life of freedom and where we can -- we don't have to my great by being happen any our own countries and we are not having that doesn't. >> thank you so much to our guests. still ahead, is fear of deportation keeping immigrant communities from reporting serious crimes in their neighborhoods in the u.s.? we discuss the tricky relationship between law enforcement and undocumented immigrants who are victims of illegal activity. later, has the mexican army gone rogue? questionable activity occurring on american soil. it's going to surprise you.

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i didn't know familiar undocumented immigrants. joining us is president of the day labor organizing committee. thanks fox here. >> thank you. >> these communities have a tense relationship with law enforcement because they are afraid that they may be deported if they report a crime. which some people fear actually makes them targets of crimes. there is a program called secure communities that was launched to try to make communities exactly what it says, safer for people. you believe that that program is not working. you are actually throwing to derail it. why in. >> right. from the beginning of this program, the secure communities deportation programs the national day labor organizing network has worked to end this program. about did point where the program is extended across the country it's pretty clear that the secure community's experience of using local police as force multi pliers for the deportation dragnet has failed. and you can --

>> the what are local police doing just for people who don't understand how this works? >> what it does is try to use local law enforcement, police and sheriffs as an extension of the president's deportation dragnet. creating links between immigration and customs enforcement and having local police detain immigrants on behalf of ice. >> what's bad about local law enforcement partnering with federal how enforce. >> sure. i think the real problem is that secure communities makes us all less safe . which folks are afraid are calling 91 un, that's exactly what the result of secure communities does it makes us all less safe a study out of chicago say 44% of latinos are less like there on reach out to police when they are victims witnesses to crime. any law he be enforcement professional will tell you if you have no trust between how enforcement and the community,

nearly half of the population that is a crisis. >> aj that's a common criticism of safer communities it makes people fearful to call 911, do you agree? >> no, because the secure communities only runs a background check immigration check on someone if they have been arrested or detained for criminal activity. so see how or where there is statistical evidence that that would intimidate something in to not reporting a crime. if they are not the ones being did hdetains aura rested for committing a crime they have nothing to fear. >> we asked our community if you could use one word to describe the relationship what would it be ? >> how do you bridge the trust deficit?

what can law enforcement to to bridge the deficit between the u.s. latinos? >> number one is refuse apply the local ice detainers which is a part of the secure communities deportation dragnet program. secure communities program muddles the question of immigration reform, people who are criminalizing the population that they are saying we want to provide relief to. the case out of massachusetts, a father of three u.s. born children, his wife has legal permanent resident status is racially profiled and stopped and base of the program secure communities he is now being detained, he's been detained for almost six months hasn't seen his children or wife and he's waiting to be deported because the programs like secure community that his do not do anything to target dangerous criminals, it's basically an extension of a federal deportation dragnet that makes us all less safe. >> thanks to our guests. when we come back, has a unit of mexico's army gone rogue?

confrontations between u.s. citizens and mexican army soldiers on u.s. soil. one of the latest resulting in american citizen being shot. what's going on? >> saturday. gaza, experience what it's like on the ground, first hand, as our crew gets caught in the chaos. the reality of war. shujayea: massacre at dawn. saturday, 10:30 eastern. only on al jazeera america. ray y

weekdays at 5 eastern only on al jazeera america ♪ ♪ welcome back. we are discussing the latest challenges for u.s. mexico security from the surge of children crossing the board for a much less publicized issue of members of the mexican army going rogue, joining me now is an investigative producer from arizona. in january mexican soling jeffs drew their gun on his u.s. border patrol agents on u.s. soil and a few months later your team investigating the shooting

of a young american man javier rodriguez he was shot in his arm and side by the mexican army, what's going on? >> as a u.s. citizen he was in a tiny border town, this is a -- this is a pretty remote outpost about 100 miles from the nearest big border city, he was there with friends, it was the middle of the night. the mexican army said that they tried to run a checkpoint at 3:00 in the morning. our investigation showed that there was no checkpoint. this was a group of rogue soldiers out in the middle of the street in the middle of the night probably trying for elicit bribes from people, maybe take their cars, we don't know. what we do know is the case was never investigated neither by the u.s. state department nor by mexico's federal attorney general's office. >> how many times a year is this happening? >> when you -- when you breakdown the number of events report today homeland security department, you are getting

about one every couple of weeks along the u.s. mexico board. in some areas, yes, absolutely it's hard to see where the borderline is, but let's be honest, since 2006, the u.s. congress' secure fence act has implemented a major wall barrier, steel fencing all along the border. you have to be through a lot of effort to cross that they knew where they were. >> michelle let's use the ship as a symbol for the border. in the past four years nearly 24 border incur gents by the mexican soldiers, do you think this relates a significant national security threat? should the people at the border be feeling concern for their safety ?

>> let's look at the january 26 incidents. these guys crossed and were carrying raoeufrblgs encounter u.s. border patrol act the border patrol agents are armed it's the middle of the night . we have spoken with u.s. this this this this

♪ welcome to al jazeera america. i am jonathan betz in new york. here are the top stories we are following for you this half hour. now, u.n. school is hit in gaza, killing at least 10 people. some israeli soldiers start to pull out. a powerful earthquake rattle southern china. hundreds of feared dead. >> a tunnel is open in miami. many are calling it a model of public and private partnership.