pushing for quite some time. >> sergeant wilson, dish wilson, appreciate your time. sergeant wilson of the st. louis police department. good to see you, inside story is next on al jazeera america. russian incur jens, probes aid convoys whatever they are, they are now morphed into something else, what more and more in ukraine, and western capitals seem comfortable with calling an invasion. it is inside story.

that we would be here less than a year later, where the map of ukraine redrawn. by the annexation of the crimea peninsula by russia, pro-russian rebels fortified by moscow and now troops in the military vehicles rolling over the order between the two countries, and coming to the aid of anti-kiev militias. the new president, seems to have upped the anti-by resisting the stealth seizure of eastern provincial cities using the ukrainian military. it looks like we are much closer to that state of play that gives pundits and policy makers the willeys, war, on the european continent. nato released these images saying more than 1,000 russian troops have marched over the border into ukraine.

nato officials also say more than 20,000 additional trips are currently staged along the border, as tanks and military vehicles drive in we have also detected large quantities of advance weapons including air defense systems. artillery tanks and armored being transferred to separatist forces in eastern ukraine. the separatist are trained by russia, they are armed by russia, they are funded by russia. russia has deliberately and repeatedly violated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of ukraine. and the new images of forces inside ukraine

make that plain for the world to see. stopped just short of calling it an invasion. >> the world must provide an assessment of the sharp open collation of the assessment. forces are capable to tackle and to cope with the russian led drill las. but this is difficult for us to fight with rush are sha and it's army. >> the united nations met a few hours later to discuss options. >> we cannot ignore the deeply alarming reports of military involvement, in this noway of escalation. if confirmed it will constitute a great international law, and of the u.n. charter. >> ambassadors from the country and ukraine, plan an emergency meeting friday. and the european union plans to meet saturday to go over the possibility of further sanctions.

we have made clear several times that if there were any further escalations more sanctions would have to be discussed. the latest escalations coming after two weeks of heavy fighting. in the separatists strong hold, 11 people were killed in a school badly damages in a shelling incident wednesday nighed, it was not immediately clear who was responsibility, but the meeting ended without a wreak through. >> they deny sending it to ukraine, putin did not comment on the situation as it unfolded either, he spent the day honesting the sought african president around moscow.

who are these men coming to the aid in eastern ukraine. are they regular russian military forces, special elements who can plausibly deny they long to the government in moscow, and what's the goal. destabilize ukraine? outright annexation of eastern parts of the country to create a land bridge to the recently annexed peninsula? is the west prepared to do anything in retaliation to what they see is a move from the putin government. joining us for that conversation, constantine, program director for the center on global interests, from london, the senior policy fellow at the european council on foreign relations and robert hunter, former united states embassador to nato. let me start with you. are these collums of russian tanks are these elements of the russian army. >> i mean, reports on the ground certainly confirm

that so called green men spotted not too far away from the southern city. indicate that perhaps these are special forces similars to the ones that were instrumental in securing crimea. we should also be careful to generalize and say that this is a full scale russian invasion. if you monitor social media of the separatist, it becomes clear by listening to the accents that a lot of them are ukrainians, in fact. certain russian troops these kind of green men, russian troops at the same time we should not general rise this as russian led. these are supportive elements to an insurgency that is largely native.

what do you think they have being sent in for? >> well, i wouldn't say that insurgency is largely native. i think had russia intervenes early on, there would be no insurgency. it is clear that it was fearful of what was happening in kiev, and they didn't trust the new government, but you can see things settling down. before russia starts meddling, but yes, some reenforcements have arrived now from russia. it's well documented that some troops have been sent to ukraine today putin's own con sell admitted that 100 of them had died already on august 13th. so there is a very strong element of russian released troops. but surely, it's still

falls short of what one might call all out war. it is really i think the most strategic aid to reenforce the insurgency, instead of capturing large parts of ukraine. they might increase the hold of the territory, that the insurgents currently have, but i think the aim remains not ukraine, or even large parts of eastern ukraine, but forcing some sort of deal, and some sort of arrangement on kiev that moscow would like, and be satisfied with. >> ambassador, hunter. what do you think the russian presidents is up to? besides crimea, he would play a very heavy price. i think this is part of bargaining to try to get as much on the ground as he can.

before cutting a deal, at some point with the west, president obama was jut on television, and he talks about going to whales a week from today, for a nato summit. i think that is one of the key moments. because if indeed, between now and then, putin intensified or his people intensify, the idea that they are doing it on their own is just nonsenses, then the western response, western solidarity is likely to be stronger a week from today when the president of the united states is faced with the need to take much stronger leadership, and a much stronger position than he has had to take so far. split escertainly strengthening nato resoldier, but i think this is part of an agreement, that this is rah negotiation tactic.

rev up pressure, right before the settlement, i think at the same time, they want to send a message -- this is part of this longer process coming out party. in the abroad, and will do whatever it takes even sending in troops to defend those interests and this is part of a message, of russia's resolve to defend their interests. as a power. >> you mentioned the near abroad, it is a phrase we haven't heard a lot of since the break up of the soviet union during the 1990's. but if it is an irritant to rush are sha, to have more of eastern europe aligned to nato, doesn't this make nato membership even more attractive? to see this kind of response troops on the ground, rolling over

borders, shelling, border stations in order to make the incursion? if you are a small country, aren't you thinking, hmm, well, now, sunnily, looking like i have a joint security guarantee with paris, london, and washington, looks like a better deal than having one with mining and moscow. >> i agree, but at the same time, i don't think russia thinks of nit the those terms. central asia, and while i'm sure they understand that this will strengthen the resolve of baltic states, poland, at the same time, their vital interest in the ukraine, are -- primary. and then in that respect, i don't think russia cares about the resolve of other natos as long as what they consider vital interests are protected. >> we will take a short break, and when we come back, we will talk about whether this represents an escalation of the

situation that carries with it more risk for the putin government. more risk for the peace in europe, and the relatively bloodless seizure of crimea. this is inside story, stay with us.

after destroying a boarder post, two collums of tanks and other military vehicles rolled

into ukraine. this look as little different from just supplying tough guys to eject civil servants from government buildings or sending forces with no military insignia into crimea to take possession of bases there, this looks something more like an invasion, and that's what the ukrainian government is calling it. president obama will held to the meeting after a visit to the ball kin states. still with us, program director for the center of global interests. a senior policy fellow at the european council, and robert hunter, former united states ambassador to nato, and let me continue, where what we were talking about before the break. the president will be heading to astone yeah before he goes to the senate. is being aligned with the west suddenly looking like a much better deal than it even did before?

>> well, it always looks like a good deal, and astone yeah was always keep getting to nato, has been a dutiful member. spending 2% of the defense. and i do not think it is correct, to put it on the same level with ukraine. even though, of course, events in ukraine impacts a lot, how astone yeah sees it's own security. i think the two countries have different status, as mentioned. i think russia for now at least given up on the baltic states, but indeed it does think it has legitimate issues in ukraine. so it's not like astone yeah is expected to be invaded by russia and

obama the only person to save astone yeah from that. i think things are slightly more complicated. never the less, good news, of course. >> robert hunter, i understand everything she just said about what makes the two countries different. but the reason, i brought it up, is because alongside separatist fighters one time -- that nato would not come all the way up to the borders of russia. and allowing the baltic states to join, welcoming poland in, was considered breaking that deal. that's why i thought of astone yeah, and i thought of the ukraine, obviously, different countries different histories different situations. but on that level, there must be some parallels. >> yeah, that's not correct. there was never any assures given to russia. that countries like the three baltics or poland, or some of the others would be allowed into

nato to be given the guarantees that they needed in order to let's say end the terrible history that they have had in the 20th century. certainly not until there was a good college try to see if russia is what georgia w.b. called poland free. here i think we did go too far that'sst history, and i think the russians have to understand, a move against the baltic state as move against poland, would bring the entire alliance down on moscow's head. already, russia is going to lose this. they are going to be isolated. they are going to be isolated politically, how mr. putin will crawl himself -- crawl the way back, i don't know.

the president must be calculated there won't be terrible consequences that europe will understand, or at least exceed to what he is trying to do, as it did with crimea. >> and that is exactly right. in fact, if we look at the seances, with russian oil companies, in the arctic, and norwegian, that oil ises have a project with rush are sha. even until a few days ago, ukrainian factories were sending military parts to russia. at the requests to lose the jobs.

the trade delegations so to sigh that putin has been isolated, politically, or economically, i think is not exactly correct, while -- and he is counting i think that this is like you mention as short term deal and as soon as the dust settles things will go back to normal. as of right now, it does look like business as usual. >> but isn't there something different? not just rattling the sabers, suspect there something different, about shelling a border station, and rolling two armed collums over a recognized international boarder? if the move tin is still doing a week from today what he is doing today, i hope he understands what happens when you poke the

president of the united states in the eye with a sharp stick. sudan hussein tried it, and they may a heavy price. this is a moment of truth. that's what the president was saying today. >> i don't think the president of rush are sha thinks so. >> he is not sudan hussein. he has a almost well equipped and trains army. so these sanctions we live in a globalized world, so these sanctions might function against iran, may function against iraq, north korea, but they do not seem to be having the same effect on rush are sha, while short term they may be something, but in the long term there has to be a different approach to rush are sha.

what do you think about the suggestion he has a week to make things right? >> i am not sure in which context, but when it comes to sanctions i think there is no way to really influence his calculaces short term. talking nato, if reference was made, attacking nato is not probably in his plans right now. maybe they will manage to mobilize it's resources, and survive with seances. but even so it is hard to

reare verse the behavior, because he is serious about what he wants to achieve. and he can take a lot of pressure and hardship. >> when we come back, if russia's leaders are so clear on why they are involved in ukraine, and convince the legitimacy of their cause, why not straight forwardly declare to the world what you are doing? this is inside story, stay with us.

welcome back to inside story on al jazeera america. i'm ray swarez. the russian incursion this time on the program, this morning on the bbc, an ally of president putin told a reporter the united states was getting too much of it's information from the ukrainian government's website. he denied there were any russian forces in ukraine, in the hours since, it's become much more apparent, something is up.

samantha power says russia has manipulated it has outright lied. why not just saying what you are doing. >> if you believe this is being done for your national interest, and you have a right to do this, why wouldn't a country like russia say this is what we have done, and that is what we want? nobody knows what anybody wants, europe, united states, rush are sha, ukraine, nobody specifically said what they want out of this conflict, and i think this is the biggest problem here. do we want to stop the human tear crisis? do we tear about the humanitarian integrity. do we want ukraine to join russia, nobody is very specific about what they want. and i think this is part of the old power dwayne. you take certain

territories you send in troops without, maaing so this is the historically, what states and powers have been doing for thousands of years. ambassador, if you are showing your muscle why not say yeah, this is our muscle. >> i don't agree that we don't know what we want. proximate cause that gives me a chance to pull them back, if they are open to declare it, if they have to get into a new coal war with us, they would lose that one, the way they lost the last one. so there's a deal to be cut, which is to say that they will have a chance to develop, to grow, but not part of a when block, not part of a soviet block, now, over time, it

is going to be important to show putin that he is not going to be able to intimidate, other countries in europe, and that's the task for the president next -- our president, as the whales summit, to start showing with the other allies that there are limits to what putin can get away with, and i think he will rue the day, if he doesn't pick up that message. >> i am not a diplomate and i don't claim to be, so i don't understand how yo can send thousands of men and hundreds of tanks over an internationally recognized border. and then go on the media and seawall, we didn't just do that. >> yes,s but rush are sha says not calling the lies

help to give them a way out, germany, for example, has been desperately trying to mediate between rush are sha and ukraine, and give rush are sha a saving way out. but if i may comment on -- yes. well, i don't though, actually, the west is in a position to say that ukraine will not be a member of nato. mavs a phrase from the nato declaration, i don't think we can reverse it like that either. so the state for ukraine is a contentious, and it cannot be solved by just

telling russians we don't want ukraine in nato, because the biggest driving no, sir, of previous enlargement, with the countries themselves and one can imagine the situation if it happens again with a new round. joins us from london, thank you for being with us that brings us to the end of this edition of inside story, we will have more on this story as it develops, keep checking in with us, in washington, i'm ray swarez. coming p, ukraine's president accusing rush are sha of invading his country, and nato says it has the pictures to back up that claim we are look

at how they are responding, also, health officials warn that the ebola outbreak will get worse before it gets better. the rock that seems to crawl across the dessert on their own, coming up, tonight at can. >> every day across america, military-style raids are taking place. local police dressed like soldiers break down doors in the hunt for drugs. >> this is not what we think of as police in a democratic society. this is way out of proportion.