auto industry, the urban farm movement here offers another common cause by rallying together to grow more food from its abundant soil. you can always keep up with all of these stories on our website, aljazeera.com. hi. i'm elisa fletcher. you're watching "the stream." minimum wage protests are

going on across the country. there's a federal law that allows employers to pay some workers with disabilities paced on their level of productivity and ability. some are unable to be competitive due to their disability. section 14c of the fair lay portion standards act has been amendmented twice since it passed in 1938. the law changed in 1966 to make sure workers with disabilities were paid 50% of the federal minimum wage but in 19 1986, the last time that wage was updated it was removed. 420,000 of the nation's 6.6 million people with disabilities work in centers that fay special minimum wages under schedule 14c and we will be referring to t to that in the program as " 14c." workers must apply for a permit

from the department of labor and the employees must meet certain criteria. opponents of the law say it's exploy take. supporters say it gives people the opportunity to work that may not have an opportunity work. >> most of our community has no idea this is happening. this is very under reported. sometimes they are do a job competition. people are ready for work for any age. we have kara clear. she says:

in our google hang out is big, the director for institute of community inclusions. opportunities. >> the executive director of the work training center. that's an organization that trains and places workers with disabilities. he also has a son with autism. and jamie who works with disabilityed employees which used to be a 14c employee before transitioning. pill, explain the genesis of this law and why it's in place. >>

sure. the law has been in place since 1937. when it was originally established it was to provide an opportunity for persons that couldn't produce at an average rate a job in an industry that was around issues of aassembly work. i think over time as we've seen our environment change and gone to more information, technology and communications the method for establishing wage rates have changed dramatically. one of the examples is if you had some pod asemiing a certain number of units an hour and are able to do it for half the rate that the typical worker because of the diseublt. disability. the person wouldn't have to instill the cost and the individual have a place to go. that was fine.

now you can't measure things that way. in some ways i think the evolution is it's a program that has outlived the environment that it's in and it's going to be something that we will talk about in the future. >> about 340 3400 employers who usd this 14c provision. many are saying they are providing opportunity, teaching skills and providing intangibles. what do you say to that? >> i don't believe that logic. i don't believe that people with with disabout itaboutwith disabilities are unemployable. it's looking at what they have

and matching the job to a person with a disability rather than taking a set manufacturing job and saying no matter what your disability is you're going to do this particular job and if you can't do it well given your disability we're going to penleize you by paying you less than we would pay another person. another thing i'd like to point out and your viewer that tweeted really got right to the heart of this. this law takes an entire class of people and says because of a characteristic that you have you can get paid less. that's flat out discrimination. imagine if we did that with skin color or with any other characteristic. it's simply discrimination. nothing makes it okay for these

workers not to have the same protections that every other american worker has. >> here's anna: riley anna anna: >> does 14c make you stagment or will it lead the way for something better for these communities? >> i think 14c is on the way out. i agree with bill. it may have had a purpose or a use at one time but i think that is going away . my own agencies in 1987 when we started having an opportunity to

get people in to the community employments. suddenly we saw that that wasn't really necessary. than if we did our job, if we were careful and thoughtful about matching an employer's needs with the individuals interest and abilities that people could work in jobs just like you and me and the need for sub minimum wage were not there. >> donna, talk about what you do and why you do it and also tell us about your son. a person with a disability and his struggles in the workplace and how he has found success. >> my background is in entrepreneurship and business development. i have worked in two university economic development programs. when i came to the work training center it's because of my son who is a consumer. he's 39

years-year-old. he had a fall when he was 2 years old, suffered some seizure activity and as he was growing up his mother and i both suspecteded there were other issues that went largely undiagnosed. it wasn't until he was 35 that he was finally diagnosed with high functioning autism and made available to services like this training center. when we lived in pennsylvania as he want out to try to try find jobs at minimum wage at grocery stores, retail outlets, at shopping in any kind of shopping center his and to follow directions and do the work that was required he just acted much slower than his peers. what ended up happening was at 6 to 8 weeks the employer would say this is not working. we're going to have to let him go.

after six or eight events of this type the individual self worth went way down. he started to get in to a little trouble. started hanging around with the wrong kinds of people it wasn't until he came out to california and started working in a skwrapbd o a janitorial crew that the seug dignity of work have come true. he has his own apartment now. he has a purpose an meaning in his life. >> you see this 14c provision is something for some people is a good thing? >> i see it as something that works for many people. i agree with the other callers on the program that it's something on the way out and it's something that we are working to achieve as part of the work training center. unfortunately, in doing that, some of the rules and regulations under which we operate sometimes make it

difficult to achieve that quickly but we're moving in the right direction. i would like to give many clients as much as i can in the different jobs and opportunities that they have at the work training center. >> i want to talk more about the rules and regulations and equal pay. how do you convince workers to pay the same rate. what role does the government play at holding back some people with disabilitys. keep tweeting us your questions or comments.

welcome back. we're talking about the right that the government has to pay some people with disabilities a lower wage. >> jonathan said : on the flip side we have ka kareem say: >> the law hasn't been looked at for more than a decade. >> it's right. there's not proper supports for

people tol people to get employment. i think the existence are one of the reasons for that. as long as we have this crutch that can put people with disabilities in to these segregated work situations and can pay them less than minimum wage and okay with that then the system is never going to improve. i'm far from a person who says the system is perfect but i think we're not going to move forward until we don't have this. if i can add to the observation about the high risk that businesses take. a lot of the entities that do this, the vast majority are non- profit. they don't have a profit motive. they are supposed to be training these workers and helping them find integrated employment. many of them use the disabilityed

workers to fulfill the contracts that they have which are very luketive. the ceo of good this makes a six-figure salary. we're not asking businesses or very few businesses take advantage of this provision. peuss want productive workers and workers with disabilities can be productive if they're given the right support. >> two things. is there anyway to get a sense of how many of these workers who are diseightye disabled can work in a main stream environment. >> it's my belief that any person who wants to work can work.

disabilities. >> it doesn't matter. what we've learned through the technologies that we've developed in our industry is that the real heart of the matter is about the businesses. what do you peuss need? what is the need for the business. the business needs for people with disabilities want to work and have skills and interests. >> what's the innocentive for a business to hire somebody who is disabilityed when they can have somebody that is not. >> if they are making a good job then that person is able to do that job. many ep in ep many employers hire people in the year. they are only people who are willing to hire people to have

the talent and the skills that they need. if you're not marketing people with disabilities to employers as people with disabilities but rather as people who have skills and abouts and an interest in the job and can fill the employers needs. then we find th the proposition. >> loreta says: i will go to you real quick. this is a big debate in our community. how should we define productivity and value. >> there are particular case for our work programs. we base productivity base on an accepted

norm. there are standards for individually every job. productivity. they move on to our community employment services. that's where we look far particular case whether it's a landscaping crew. they can transition out in to the community and work in a commercial activity. >> is the filtering process here flawed in the way some people are unfairly pipelineed in to these sub minimum wage jobs whose abilities are not properly assessed. >> i think what we're caught in to is we're in a stage of transition where some of the philosophys are changing clearly. there's a hol a whole

initiative . the piece that's important to remember is the labor market is changing dramatically. how you mention productivity. you measure the producttivety for people who have come through office. she has no control over that. so the measures of productivity are very different and the flaw given the type of different forward. we raise the question about what's the tin the ti tin incentive for employers. industry and

employers know that. it's becoming less than an issue and moving true and 15 years ago is the challenge. >> we're going the hit a break and come back and resume this conversation. what can advocates and employers do together? are there senseible revisions for this law that will benefit every pod? >> consider this: the news of the day plus so much more. >> we begin with the growing controversy. >> answers to the questions no one else will ask. >> real perspective, consider this on al jazeera america

welcome back. don, based on the conversation we've had this evening how do you answer the concerns that chris and jenny have without feeling like you're abandoning son. >> it's a concern if transition happens very quickly and we're forced to shut down things without proper planning to be

able to transition clients in to ore areas. i would like to go back to a question -- they are act hi referred to the us a called a regional center and where they go through and have their own assessment pool that's done. when they come to our facility and clients are assessed in terms of their interests so we can properly try to support and support those interests that they have. >>

a lot of people want to live independently. you not live independently. if you are making t 20-cents an hour. i don't think it's fair to say they are not getting money but getting fulfillment. they should get both.

>> it's critically important to realize that the minimum wage are in sheltered workshops. >> explain to people what that is and the fact that it is consider a term. >> it's segregated and take place that i have with disabilities there. it's a huge concern. as the civil and people with disabilities are --

part of that is having an opportunity to choose your own work and get paid a descent wage. >> the fair wages for workers with disabilities which would phase out 14c and it will phase it out.

i agree that this needs to be they will receive incentives. christa says : >> how do we move forward? >> i think krista is very right. the question of what can government do.

>> i'm ali velshi, the news has become this thing where you talk to experts about people, and al jazeera has really tried to talk to people, about their stories. we are not meant to be your first choice for entertainment. we are ment to be your first

choice for the news.