aljazeera.com/considerthis. tweet me @amoratv. we'll see you next time. hi everyone. this is al jazeera america. i'm john seigenthaler in new york. >> we will follow them to the gates of hell, until they are brought to justice. blunt warning - the white house vows to publish the islamic state group for beleading two american hostages. finding the dead, helping the living, defending america - immigration flow the eyes of one texas rancher. our special series "5 days along the border"

a condemned prisoner and his brother behind bars for a crime they didn't commit - set free madoff tragedy - we talk to the documentary film-maker who had unprecedented access to the family and madoff's former secretary. tonight the growing threat from the islamic state group, as an old enemy surfaces with a new message. al qaeda announced plans to form a branch on the indian subcontinent, fighting to revive islamic rule in myanmar, bangladesh and other areas. the leader unveiled the plan in a 55 minute video posted online. the announcement is seen as a snub to the rise of the islamic state, and comes as the u.s. confirms the islamic state group

beheaded a second american journalist. some 100 americans are believed to be fighting in the middle east with what president obama labelled terrorists. the president made it year justice will be carried out. mike viqueira reports. >> early wednesday the administration made it official, authenticating the murder of second journalist steven sotloff. in the wake of that murder, that act on the behalf of the islamic state group, the president is talking tougher, but is working on the strategy of how he's going to go after the terrorist. >> reporter: with political allies at home saying he's too cautious, travelling in estonia, president obama vowed to carry the fight to the islamic state group. >> our objectedive is clear, to degrade and destroy i.s.i.l., not only to iraq, but the region and the united states. >> reporter: the tough talk

after president obama said last week he didn't have a strategy for striking is in its syrian strongho stronghold. islamic state group fighters number some 10,000. after describing their sophistication in seizing much of syria and iraq, the top counterterrorism official left little doubt about what he believes is the group's ultimate aim. >> from its position i.s.i.l. poses a multilateral threat to the united states. >> president barack obama, in his comments, talked about the threat to its neighbours. >> our objective is to make sure that i.s.i.l. is not an ongoing threat to the region. >> reporter: this reflects the developing american strategy - bring arab states into a coalition to combat the threat, pushed on wednesday at the united nations by the u.s. ambassador. >> it will involve stakeholders from around the world. >> reporter: as delicate talks get under way behind the

screens, vice president joe biden publicly vowed retribution for the murder of journalist steven sotloff at the hands of the islamic state group. >> they should know we will follow them to the gates of hell, until they are brought to justice, because hell is where they will reside. the david shuster sat with one of europe's diplomats, swede esh foreign minister, and they talked about whether the u.s. and europe should send in troops to fight the islamic state group. >> it is evil inkinate that we see in the -- incarnate that we see in the organization, we need to start a focus on how to beat that challenge. >> if it's evil incarnate is the responsibility from europe troops, american troops to essentially join the battle against islamic state. >> i think the appetite in the united states for sending ground forces to iraq is limited. i'm not certain that would be

the solution. that could be the rallying cry or point for jihadists to concentrate on that battle. the main thing now is repair iraq. there's a debate about whether or not islamic state should be targeted in syria. a number of analysts point out if the united states were to do so, it may strengthen asaad. what is your few? >> to go further for striking forces or air strikes in syria that may be a complicating matter at this point in time. let's concentrate for the time being on iraq. it will not sort out all the issues, but defeating them there will go a long way. >> you advocate containment, rolling them back in iraq and contain them in syria. >> i want say contain them in syria, they need to be defeated

there. first they have been beaten back in some areas. concentrating on baghdad, preparing that, beat them back. once that is done, let's see where we are, and what further steps can be taken. >> president obama has been criticized in washington for suggesting there is not a concrete plan to deal with islamic state. is it fair to say the west has been somewhat stumped by islamic state? >> i think that's fair to say. but they erupted on the scene quite suddenly. and presented us with new challenges. that's hardly new, that happens all the time. we preoccupied with what happens in ukraine. what you see now is we are gradually coming together and starting to forward a strategy. i don't think we are there as yet. we are clearly on a path towards it. >> retired marine corp major-general james williams stationed in ramadi and fallujah

during the iraq war, he is in dallas. what do you think would be the best military strategy here? >> well, john, good to be with you tonight. you know, the military strategy has to be an integrated strategy. we've been talking about an air campaign and some of our special operators on the ground. at some point you have to decide that the military strategy is going to be beyond iraq. beyond syria. since most of this is a sunni directed challenge, you know, the challenge is how will we convince the sunnis around the world that this is not a worthwhile cause to be involved in. so you have that aspect of it. you know, the actual military part, you know, introduced ground forces, for example, you'll have to bring ground

forces in that are integrated with air power, special operators, and our diplomatic intelligence, and economic power that we bring to the table. so it has to be an integrated strategy, number one. then you defeat the i.s.i.s. forces that are most threatening, but then you have to get to the root cause of what is causing all of this. and i think there are issues, whether it's in europe, in the united states or in iraq or syria, that have to be addressed at some point to defuse the whole effort made by i.s.i.s. >> friendships, in iraq and syria, who is going to do that? >> well, i think, you know, the united states will have to take the lead. europe will be part of it. the gulf states and other middle eastern countries will have to be involved in any number of

efforts, especially on the diplomatic front. you know, for example, if i.s.i.s. is able to sell oil like it is, they are going to have revenue streams that will allow them to buy any weapon system they can pay for. at some point you have to take that ability away from them. so, you know, it's not just defeating the military force, it's defeating their economic wherewithal. >> is this as much a pr campaign that the united states and its allies have to win around the world as well as a military campaign? >> absolutely. i mean, you know, let's look at all the things that were said today by various members of the administration. some were very forthright and very strong in their comments. but ultimately the president has got to give a unifying approach.

right now, i think he's sending mixed signals, and i think it's confusing. it's confusing to our military, our allies and to the american people in general. right now there's a lot of people that are not happy with the vision or maybe lack of vision that he is presenting. you know, right now i think it's haphazard at best, and episodic at best. >> what are the mixed signals? >> well, i think on one hand the president wants to defeat and destroy an organization. well, that takes ground and air power. you know, if i had marine forces on the ground, you know, our mission, as marine combat ground forces are very specific, but at the end of the day we'll locate, close with, and destroy or capture those enemy that are in our sight. and that is the way we'll do

business. so we don't want to send mixed signals, especially to our forces. i mean, at the end of the day, once you commit ground forces or you commit even aviation forces, if something happens and young men or women from this country in uniform gets harmed, killed or maimed. what do you tell their parents, was it worth it? so the president at some point has to say that this is worth it. i know everyone is talking about the fact that we do not want to have, you know, ground forces, and maybe the president doesn't want to escalate. i don't think he has a choice. i think i.s.i.s. will escalate as long as we give the impression that we are not going to be completely serious to defeat them. i think gerald dempsey said it today. he said this is a great threat. he understands what is going on, and he knows that based on our

intelligence, we have got to put these forces in check, or completely defeat them and attempt to shut it down. >> general james williams, good to have you on the programme again. thank you very much. >> you bet, john, thank you. today we heard the first comments from the family of journalist steven sotloff since his death. a spokesman delivered the family statement saying that he was simply trying to find the good in a troubled world. >> he was no war junkie. he did not want to be a modern day lawrence of arabia. he merely wanted to give voice to those that had none. from the libyan doctrine in misrata who struggled with psychological journalists in the war, and the syrian plumber who risked his life crossing the lines to purchase medicines, their story was steve's story. he ultimately sacrificed his

life to bring their story to the world. >> steven sotloff was a freelancer for "time" and other magazines. to russia and ukraine, they are moving towards a ceasefire, as allies prepare for a meeting in wales. >> president obama wrote a joint op-ed with david cameron, condemning russia's actions in ukraine. in "times" of london they wrote: they called on n.a.t.o. to strengthen its alliance. the pentagon said 200 u.s. troops will head to ukraine for military exercises. other western countries were putting on pressure. france said it would delay the deliver of an assault ship to russian agent. for europe and ukraine, an end cannot come fast enough. paul brennan reports. >> reporter: the shell which smashed into the 7th floor apartment last weekend made a hole which will not easily be

mended. as a child, this child survived the famine, but in her frailist years she is having to endure hardship again. >> translation: i survived that, painful. we started to live well again, and they started killing us. we don't need this. >> reporter: donetsk is a shadow of its former self. the northern districts bearing scars of shelling and mortar attacks over the recent weeks. a ceasefire will be welcome to the beleaguered residents of these housing blocks. gun fire and explosions that we hear means is far from being so on the ground. it was announced that the ukranian president announced an end, after a phone call with president vladimir putin. that was until he denied the news, leaving the donetsk civilians feel the same as

before. >> translation: yes, we heard about the ceasefire. there were crazy explosions everywhere. we were in the bus, came out, shelling started. >> reporter: the russian president blamed for stoking the conflict by the west, says he has a plan containing seven proposals, most looking similar to the 14-point peace plan which the ukranian president put to pro-russian fighters in june. separatist leaders claim not to have seen vladimir putin's plan immediately, but were in broad agreement with the proposals. >> translation: let them go away and stop bothering us, we didn't bother them. we didn't go to kiev and don't shell them. do they want us to come to kiev and shell? leave us in peace, go away. >> reporter: in the coming days they started to be critically important. the troubles are top of the agenda when the n.a.t.o. summit convenience in wales.

the contact group representing kiev, moscow and the separatists meet in minsk on friday, and the e.u. will decide on the same day whether to hit russia with more sanctions. turning now to the issue of the immigration in this country. an estimated 600 undocumented migrants passed through brooks county texas every day. the remote county is about the size of rhode island, and 80 miles from the mexican border. in many ways it's a symbolic center of the crisis. it is a burial ground or hundreds who died there, trying to reach a better life. for a local rancher the problem is personnel. heidi zhou-castro joins us from dallas as we continue our series "five days along the border." >> there are more than 900 square miles of private ranch land that make up brooks county, texas. at you said to this is a burial ground or the migrants that

attempt to walk 34 miles through the punishing desert. they do this here, because they have to get around a border patrol checkpoint, blocking a highway north of the county. this is a land of life and death, and moral conflict for the ranchers caught in the middle. >> reporter: 70-year-old rancher is used to the discoveries. he's managed this ranch at the edge of the brooks desert. more than 30 bodies have turned up. >> when you find someone dead, you are lucky to find him in the first place. why? because the buzz ards, the katakatas, the mexican eagle, the coyotes, wild hogs - everyone eats and spreads the bones all over the place. you may not ever find them.

>> reporter: the gruesome findings are all that remain of the migrants who cross the border, only to die of dehydration under the 100 degree sun. the local sheriff's office recovered 400 bodies in six years. the chief deputy says it's not known how many are undiscovered. >> every time you find one, you are probably missing five. >> after seeing so much death, this rancher is determined to try to keep all those on his ranch alive. he leaves water. >> i fill 10-15 jugs every other week. we have seven. >> reporter: how many lives has is saved? >> i have a hard time to know? >> reporter: those that reach his porch receive food and an invitation to share their stories. he records the conversations to

bring attention to their plight. this 17-year-old followed and found his way to the homestead. >> he's been walking for three days. there were 18 of them. the coyote got mad and abandoned them, left them there. >> reporter: the fate of the others are unknown. as for the board, durham called the border patrol to pick him up. they want more border security, because the fewer migrants that cross, the fewer deaths. >> the good lord and i know what i'm doing. i don't care what anyone else says, i don't, as far as aiding and abiding - i don't have the heart to let someone die, no. >> reporter: at the same time you see them as illegal crossers. >> sure, they are illegal. they are breaking the law and i'll turn them in. >> there's times when durham can do nothing but call the coroner.

>> he was pretty well inside there, and sleeping, and then he came over here and died. he died right here. >> reporter: the body of a young man was discovered in february. >> someone lost a loved one, and they don't know it and may never know it. >> reporter: it took months to identify the 28-year-old from guatemala. he had planned to work in new york, and return to his wife and five children living in poverty. >> they'll keep coming. this will happen. you have to accept it as a way of life. try to save and help people as much as you can. >> reporter: to durham it's the act of trying that keeps the fight going. now, durham says he asked each migrant that he comes across what drove them to leave their homeland, mostly from central america, and tries to convince them one at a time that going home and staying there is the best way. of course, there are thousands

of people that he cannot reach, and the saddest thing is that these migrants usually have no idea what is coming. coyotes, smugglers, lie and say it's an easy walk. once they pay up front, the coyotes have done their job, and have no record whether or not the people trusting them with their lives actually make it. we have more of heidi zhou-castro's series tomorrow. thank you. hurricane norbet was upgraded to a category 1 storm, gaining strength and spinning in the pacific. kevin corriveau is here with the latest on that. >> that's right. this is a storm in the eastern pacific. it will have a major impact not only from mexico, but the sworn part of the united states. the track is going to make it go to the north-west. become a category 2, drop to a tropical storm. the big thing we'll watch is what will happen as the storm makes its way towards

california. i want to show you the spaghetti plot. all the models. notice here it makes a turn to the north-east. when it does that, we expect major flooding. not only from mexico, but parts of arizona as well, and into california. this will go on from saturday as well as into sunday. we'll watch this very, very carefully. this means flash flooding will be a major problem as we go towards the weekend. we have seen a lot of rain over here towards the east. where tropical storm dolly, that brought 10-14 inches of rain a few weeks ago. coming up, bernie madoff's son loses his battle with cancer. he blames it on the death of his father. we talk about the ponzi scheme with the madoff producer. what you need to know, and

what some home-sharing sites could see as their biggest challenge.

air b&b is growing in popularity and controversy. it's a travel option for people looking to avoid expensive hotels. someone with an open room in their home can offer it for a nightly or weekly fee through air b&b. the site and users are under investigation for rental and housing violations. today 25 hosts filed a suit against the site for giving their data to new york authorities. adam is an attorney representing the air b&b hosts in the lawsuit. welcome. why did you file a lawsuit. air b&b was about to send personal information, including address and security. it's in violation of all the duties and responsibilities of privacy policies and law that air b&b is supposed to abide by.

>> aren't your clients violating the spirit of the law in new york. >> there's a law saying you can't lease a home for more than 30 days. >> they are doing that. >> recent law. air b&b. if you go on the website let's you book for a weekend. if air b&b wanted to get rid of the 3 day, weekend, less than 3 day rentals, why not eliminate it on the website. >> it's air b&b's fault. >> it couldn't happen without them. my clients are innocent until proven guilty, so some of my clients aren't actually violating the law. they live in their homes, they are unemployed, leave friday, go to a friend's house, earn enough to feed the kids and some back on monday. >> they are not leasing for 30 days. they are leasing for less.

>> some are taking on room mates. some have room mates there when they are hosting other people, and that is not violating the law at all. the thing about our constitution is you get to prove the case before you get tossed into the frying pan. >> in order for the government to improve its case, they need data the law says it can't have. what does the law says. >> the federal law. the communication act says that an internet provider, if you are a subscriber or consumer they cannot release personal for financial information. >> communications act. >> unless there's a court order. air b&b, without a court order released it, unless we found out on tuesday, that on friday - before labor day, a lot of people are off, they were going to let the data loose. >> what if they get a court order?

>> whups they get the court order, there's a problem. those should supercede the court order. the attorney-general would have to get a warrant. the proper way is to get a warrants, and i don't think they had a reasonable cause, or the requirements to get a warrant. >> can't they find someone who rented it and get that information just as as well. without getting that information from communications cable communications and the internet distributor. >> sure, they can hire detectives and sit outside of departments, but it's not the easiest thing in the world. >> this doesn't settle the problem. >> it's the middle class is the problem. most in america can't afford a new york city hotel room. middle class people are renting to other middle class people, getting a chance to see new york city, because they have an

affordable place to live. >> so change the law. >> that is what should happen. if the law is not changed, why is the attorney-general going after the middle class people renting the apartments, or the ones renting them. >> there's a lot of regulations in hotels and taxes. >> and that's who is getting rich, the hotels. they love this law. they are drinking sham pain in the hotels. why - how much is the average in new york city. bed and breakfast - $100, $250 - your family can afford to stay in new york city. >> why don't your clients change the law? >> unfortunately we don't have the power, we are middle class people. we need the legislature to do that. and it's tough to get the legislature to do anything in new york city. the attorney-general has the power to decide what laws to enforce and whatnot. it's an election year. maybe lay off the poor people trying to make ends meet. i represent a group called new

yorkers making ends meet for the sharing economy. let's allow these people to make ends meet. do you know what they do to the people representing bed and breakfast - they spent money. it's good for the economy. >> adam, great to see you, thank you for coming on. next, a death row case that the supreme court once rejected. two brothers freed. evidence that cleared them of a notorious crime. plus... >> we will follow them to the gates of hell, until they are brought to justice. vice president joe biden vows revenge against the islamic state group.

this is al jazeera america. i'm john seigenthaler in new york. coming up, two brothers now free men after 30 years behind bars for a brutal crime they did not commit. and an appeal that the supreme court rejected. how d.n.a. changed their case. plus, going against the grain - a federal judge upholds louisiana's ban against same-sex marriage. and bernie madoff's only surviving son losses his life against cancer. i talk to the film-maker with the billion dollar ponzi scheme, and the people close to madoff

that knew nothing about it. president obama, vice president joe biden, vowed to get justice for the american journalist beheaded by the islamic state group. the administration is under scrutiny for not having a clear plan to stop the group. today the vice president said the u.s. will not stop until justice is done. >> and when people harm americans, we don't retreat. we don't forget. we take care of those grieving. when that is finished, they should know - we will follow them to the gates of hell, until they are brought to justice. because hell is where they will reside. with midterm elections 62 days away, members of both parties urge president obama to take stronger action. david shuster has more. >> reporter: in the wake of beheading of journalist steven sotloff, the outrage has been pouring in from republicans and

democrats. senator bill nelson, a democrat from florida said he will introduce authorisation authorising president obama to attack syria: . >> nelson is one of the president's staunchest supporters in congress. the senator's statement follows criticism from democrat palmer. >> i have learnt one thing about the president. that is he's very cautious. maybe in this instance too cautious. >> on the republican side, south carolina senator lindsay graham issued a statement saying:

in estonia president obama offered one. >> our objective it clear - to degrade and destroy i.s.i.l., so it's no longer a threat not just to iraq, but the region. and to the united states. >> reporter: president obama didn't reject the request from congress about attacking islamic state in syria. it may take the pentagon some time to generate military options. time is limited in the political cauldron where legislation could outflank the president as early as next week. dino, a columnist for "the daily beast" joins us. >> thank up. >> what are some of the modern ways that the islamic state group are using or recruiting people. >> they are using modern and ancient islamic way to the get people to join. one, i say at the outset - the

leader of the group is mohamed badie. that is not really his name -- abu bacher bag dardy. that is not his real name, he gave himself that name. you have that, and using social media. they use hash tags, facebook, twitter and a magazine that has three issues - i read the last - in english, arabic - glossy pictures that look like a photo shoot, to military conquests. >> what makes the group different from al qaeda? >> a few things - one is the use of social media. second, the promise of a land to live in. al qaeda told muslims - go do something for us, if you are in the west, blow something else. these guys say if you are in a

world where islam is not your master but it's jobs, come to our country, we'll put islam first. we have a land for you to live in, an islamic state. it's a different message. >> a lot has been made that they've been recruited from the united states, britain, most have come from neighbouring countries. >> most are from iraq and syria. >> right. we are talking thousands of people from neighbouring countries. when you go beyond that, they have little proximity. if you look at the west, they have 700. they have 350, 7 million muslims. >> if you look at indonesia. over 200 million muslims, less than 30. look at malaysia, 60% are muslims. 20 million - only about 30 have

joined. >> i understand that. let me push back. yes, when you see the video of people being beheaded, journalists beheaded. you cannot get 10 people for that. in the ones - different things with different people. in the west they are going after the alienated muslims. the ones that feel not part of the society. you see polls in the u.k., 20% of young people think they should leave the country. they are less loyal to the county they live in. a message of join us. >> what impact is the islamic state going to have on that. >> the islamic state. >> they say come and live with us. >> what impact will it have on mousse limes in those -- muslims in those countries? >> they are slaughtering muslims more than anyone. >> i understand that. what impact do you think it really will have. they complain they feel oppressed. what impact will all the

publicity have on muslims. law-abiding muslims who don't care about - who condemn the islamic state. >> they don't care about a backlash. the ones that come, move to i.s.i.s. land, their world. they want a feeling that there's a place they belong. we recruit impoverished people. >> not just the impoverished. >> the break down - i haven't seen all the details. they are targetting people that are unconnected with the land, and the ones that went to syria, and did not feel like the muslim army is muslim enough. >> it's a complex situation of barr baric groups. they get depressed. they will not care if we behead another person. we will be desensitised.

>> good to see you again. >> thank you. >> the third american diagnosed with the deadly ebola virus has been identified. dr rick sacre. he was working with a missionary organization, delivering babies. he's 51 years old, has a wife and three children. it's unclear when he may return to the united states. another american that survived spoke out for the first time since being cleared by doctors. >> to our dear brothers and sisters in africa, our prayers are for you, our prayers are with you in west africa. and i would just like to say thank you. >> nancy writebol was working at a medical clinic in liberia when diagnosed. she received weeks of treatment in the u.s. and is grateful to be alive. reports say the justice department will take a top to

bottom look at ferguson police department. ferguson has been under fire since an officer shot and coiled michael brown, setting off a week of unrest. this investigation will be in addition to the one looking into the circumstances of michael brown's death and focus on the police department's conduct and the quality of training over the year. >> two north carolina men are enjoying their first night of freedom in more than 30 years. henry mccollum and leone brown were put behind bars in the 1980s for a rape and murder they did not commit. new d.n.a. evidence won them their freedom. >> it's an interesting case. the supreme court justice pointed to the case as justification for the death penalty. it turned out they were innocent. >> i knew one day i'd get out. i accident know when it would be. >> for henry and his

half-brother, that day was wednesday. both men were kept behind bars for more than 30 years. mccollum 50, spent all of them on death row. >> it was a rough experience. some time i felt like giving up and stuff. >> he and his half-brother were convicted in the rape and murder of 11-year-old sabrina bowe in 1973. on tuesday a judge tossed out their convictions. the reason - new evidence. d.n.a. from a cigarette butt implicated another man, serving life for the killing of another girls beaks after boouy's death. a defense attorney said confessions were coerced. >> these were two teenage boys not in a position to defend themselves or communicate. they were manipulated by law enforcement officials to give

the statement. in statements pretty much alone, the reason they were put in prison, on death row. >> the innocent project said the brothers are among 300 prisoners released with the help of d.n.a. 11 have been freed in north carolina. across the country two out of three of those freed are african american. >> there have been states that moved to abolished the death penalty. innocent people are sentenced to death and probably has been put to death. >> the man that is in custody for another murder. it's unclear why he wasn't focus said on. for the first time since the supreme court struck down the defense of marriage act, a federal judge upheld a ban on same-sex marriages. jonathan martin has that story.

>> the federal judge's decision is getting attention. it breaks a streak of rulings we have seen in other states where judges overturned bans on same-sex marriages. there's 20 recent rulings. in this case the louisiana federal judge, judge martin feldman sided with the sit, upholding the ban, and upholds the state's refusal to recognise same-sex marriage for those married legally. it's been argument this violates equal protection. the judge said they failed to prove that. he's the first to uphold a state ban since part of the federal defensive marriage act was struck down. gay rights advocates say they'll take the case to the u.s. court of appeals. >> we got the ruling this morning. we are disappointed. we planned toll file a notice of appeal promptly.

we feel that the judge's ruling - we thought we had a strong case, considering the long line of federal cases, ruling in favour of same-sex marriage, and we will look forward to the appeal. >> even the judge in this case acknowledged that the ruling may not we the final say. he wrote: . >> by the way, in 2004, 78% of louisiana voters approved a constitutional state amendment banning same-sex marriage. >> jonathan martin reporting. >> the last-surviving son of multibillion wall street con artist died. andrew madoff lost his battle with a rare form of cancer. he was 48. his father is serving 150 year prison sentence for running a $65 million ponzi scheme. andrew denied knowledge and was never charged. he said his cancer recurrence

was a result of the stress from his father's criminal actions. bernie madoff victimized more than 8,000 over decades much in a moment i'll talk to the film-maker who chronicled madoff's rise and fall. it's called "in god we trust", and airs on al jazeera america later this year. here is an exclusive look. >> movie reel: every well-constructed form has a brilliant master mind. >> what bernie did was tell them, and claimed that he did it on his own. >> after i spoke to bernie and realised what he did, it was a feeling of things are not the way you thought they were. >> i know they didn't do anything wrong. it's part of my parliamentary to blame myself. >> how many years did you work with him? >> 25. >> you didn't know who he was. >> no. derek anderson and victor cuba check is the coe director, and

derek joins us in our studio. you stalked to andy madoff a number of times for the film. how did he feel about his father? >> i think there was an enormous amount of anger. i think that anger and there's a lot of sadness. he felt like the family that he knew was not his family. more painful to him than what his father did, it was his mother's choice to stand by berpie, and not her -- bernie, and not her sons after the truth came out. that was a bigger source of pain. >> andy's brother killed himself. >> yes. >> he said publicly the scandal killed his brother, and led to his death. >> well, when our film premier yaired at tribunal ekka film festival, andy came. we didn't know he was coming.

he came to watch and see eleanor, and the three of us said my father killed my brother quickly, and me slowly. that's when we learnt that he was battling lymphoma. >> what is the family like new? >> i think still fractured. andy and ruth reconciled after she decided to leave bernie, even though he was in gaol, she was in contact, visiting him, standing by his side. after mark died, ruth realised she was making the wrong decision. she and andy reconciled the last year. they had a relationship, but i think fractured is the best. >> you think the sons really knew? >> in my estimations should they have known, yes. did they know? no. >> why don't you think they knew? how could they not know? >> everybody asks that, not only them, but others in the organization. if you - you know, the film goes

into this in great detail. bernie had a legitimate trading business. there was the majority of the employees worked in it. bennie helped to set up the nasdaq, he was at the forefront of training. he did all these things that were revered and respected in the financial world. he had a small advisory business, where he had a handful of people locked away. those people rarely interacted, they were a few different businesses. the sons worked in legitimate businesses. should very have known and asked more questions, i think - it's like anything. they were very young, conditioned do what dad says, follow dad's lead, don't ask questions. i'm of two minds. i don't think they knew the details of what he was doing. in my opinion, they probably should have. >> how did you get close to the family. >> it wasn't that we were so directly close.

we became close with eleanor, berpie's -- bernie's secretary of 25 years. her life fell apart. she went on a journey to help the authorities and fbi. she was key in that investigation. we started to film, making film around that time. and eleanor was close to the boys, they grew up there. they came in as children. it was through our relationship with eleanor and filming her. >> stop there for a second. we'll take a break. and more from derek anderson after the break, including what he learnt from madoff's long-time secretary. it's just after this. don't go away.

cl clt watching the precipitation, but our main focus over the next couple of days will be towards the north. we have a cold front coming through. that will break the very, very

warm temperatures, and bring severe weather on thursday. from illinois to kansas, it will make its way down on friday, and we'll see a bit of rain across the south-east. what will happen to the north. take a look at the temperatures as we go towards thursday. this is where the cooler air is coming into play. billings 56, minnesota at 87. as the cold fronted moves through. notice how they change. we'll drop 15-18 addition in one day. on saturday. chicago gets colder and many places to the north-east. sunday, new york, you drop down to 79 degrees. we'll see a change also. the cooler temperatures towards billings will raise as we go towards sunday, and here on monday we are looking at temperatures starting to stablilize, temperatures to the south. houston at 90. warm temperatures in los angeles at 85 and rain. that's a look at the weather.

news is next.

derek anderson is back with me, the film-maker of "in god we trust", about bernie madoff. his secretary - why did she talk to you? >> i think for eleanor, it was important. she was in the process of discovery. she didn't - in the end she didn't know the man, the business she worked for. she felt guilt for being there. for her it was a way to document the process, as she found out the truth, as she was involved. that's what her mission has been about in helping the fbi and authorities. >> let me show a little of the documentary. >> sure. >> movie reel: it turns out bernie had the entire place designed from scratch to his exact specifications. on the 18th and 19th floors he had a legit trading firm

covering up the illegal advisory business on the 17th floor. the 17th floor was where money went to disappear. >> but she didn't know? >> no. >> she knew there was something else going on, but didn't know what? >> no, actually, there was an advisory business on the 17th floor. >> right. >> everybody in the organization believed in this was, you know, where bernie managed the money of friends and family, he wasn't registered with the f.c.c. as a brokered dealer. from their perspective he cannot have clients, he had a small group of people. you can't believe it was a large order business. he had so few people. if you were really investing the money, a fund, you'd have to have dozens of employees. from everyone's perspective this is where he managed the money, of a small handful of people he was close to.

>> $65 billion he swindled. >> in the ponzi scheme there was about $20 million. that was what people believed they would have earned. >> how much money is out there? >> 70% has been recovered. not much has been distributed to the victims - long process, a lot of people making sort of legal challenges the way money has been distributed and things like that, putting a hold on that. there are enormous expenses related to the recovering and things like that. >> do you think this documentary is a way for the secretary to make herself feel better about what she didn't know? >> no, she didn't say yes immediately. it took time. >> you convinced her. >> yes, it was a compelling story, we felt it had to be told. she is just one person in all of

this. here life was totally destroyed, turned upside down. she lost the home she saved for. she made a normal salary. the rug was pulled out from under her. >> i have about 30 seconds, what did you find most fascinating that you learnt about madoff. >> truly he was a sociopath. everyone and everything was the tool in his toolbox, there was no emotion or regard for anyone, including his family. i found it frightening but fascinating to take that deep a look. >> i'm anxious to see this documentary. it's called "in god we trust", derek anderson, great to see you. you can see the programme in select theatres in november. and on al jazeera america, december 7th and 14th, 9 eastern. 6 pacific time. that's the programme. thanks for watching.

"america tonight" is next. see you back here tomorrow night.

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>> on "america tonight": raising the stakes, the white house vows brutal punishment for the fighters of the islamic state. >> they should know we will follow them to the gates of hell. until they are brought to justice. >> you about how far will the president go to avenge the deaths of americans? at the hands of the fighters seeking greater control from their strong holds in iraq, and syria. also tonight. pregnant addicts face their devastating drug habits and the long arm of the law. >> why single out women and