telling him to keep going, if he can do it, anyone can do it. >> absolutely. good for him to put himself out there, in such a public forum. mote vagueing others and also staying motivates himself. boys are being killed by high school football. boys are being crippled by the college game, far more often than the rest of us. how badly do we want to play football? it is inside story.

hello, i am ray swarez. the president of the united states convened a meeting hoping to head off growing sentiments for banning skoal lic football. two year was 1905, the president was theodore roosevelt, whose own son has been injured playing football. a century later roosevelt is credited with safing the game today we know so much more about neurological damage. thrilled to on field combats and massive hits. even as young man are crippled by the game, and continue to die. in the past week, two high school players have died from injuries suffered in games. in troy alabama demario harris jr., made a tackle last friday night.

harris' father posted on facebook his son died of a pain hemorrhage caused by the hit, adding it's possible he had a preexisted condition, but there's no way to know now. in elwood new york, junior tackle dies after suffer add head injury during a game wednesday. >> they are all lovely boys this was just a tragedy. it was just a tragedy. >> and in a case that drew national attention, shane morris, the quarterback of the michigan football team, took a shot to the chin in a tell viced game against minnesota saturday, the hit clearly shook morris, but the coach left him in the game. >> we would never, ever, if we thought a guy had a concussion, keep him in the game, and neff have. morris suffered a

concussion, and later students rallies calling for the coach to be fired. >> to the ranks of the nfl, have been widely known and deeply researched. star player junior seau was a number of player who'd have committed suicide, after he took his own life in 2012, his family gave his brain to scientist whose confirmed that the memory loss and mood swings he endured came from repeated trauma to his brain. resulting in chronic traumatic or cte. his case is not unique, a study released by boston university, shows of 79 decreased nfl players examined 76 had cte. today the league has come to grips with the science, and changed rules to protect players more than 4500 former nfl players filed suit against the nfl, over what the league knew and was telling players about

pain injury. teddy roosevelt is credited with safing the game after a wave of deaths in college games. it led to new rules and better equipment. president obama told the new yorker if he had sons he wasn't sure he would let them play football. >> while the number of concussions reported among young athletes has risen, one reason is likely because players coaches and parents better understand symptoms. of these injuries. still, there's more work to do, we have to have better research, better data, better safety equipment, better protocols. >> some teams are now using sensors on helmets as a way to protect players. football remains wildly popular, some say it is surpassed payable as america's passtime.

is this summer, a judge approve add $675 million settlement between the nfl and former players the league did not admit wrongdoing, but former player whose suffer from dementia, memory loss and other problems could get money for the next 65 years. if we wanted to better balance the risk with the result, how would football and the equipment we use to play it have to change? can americans modify the game in ways that preserve the thrills of strength and athleticism, and results in fewer cases of paralysis, dementia, and early death? joining us for that conversation, from chathum massachusets. he advices the nfl's head neck and spine committee, in our washington studio, a brain injury lawyer, with the law firm of

chicken sherman. let me start with you, doctor, how would you describe the most recent progress between various levels of the game, and the people who play it? are people being advised more accurately about the risks they are taking on to themselves when they put on a helmet and pads and head out on to the field? >> ray, i think generally speaking the answer to that is yes. and i think it is a little bit backwards in terms of where most of that progress has occurred because most of that progress has occurred in terms of meaningful rules changes at the highiest level, the national football league. where we are finding multiple rules changing the most important of which came out of the collective bargaining agreement where they can only hit 14 times in 18 weeks. of the season that's less than once a week, and they can't have any full contact practices in the off season.

that's very different than colleges and high school and youth, where they are hitting routinely two or three time as week, playing a game on top of that, and then playing spring ball and going to summer camps in the off season. >> are those kinds of contacts, call la tiff in their effect? if you are playing from the time you are nine, or 11 years old, and then playing as a high school player, with hopes of going to college, and playing pal, every time you get a shot to the head, does that stand on the shoulders of the other times you have been hit in the head? >> well, unquestion my, concussions have been the poster child for chronic traumatic enreceive lop thy. what we are finding is that we have a number of athletes with c.t.e. that did not have any recognized concussions during their lifetime. and there are a number of studies can have shown in the last two years especially, studies that look at the structure of the brain, primarily

fiber tracks with diffusion tenser imaging that look at metabolic functioning of the brain, with functional mri, that look at our own cognitive functioning with computer based neuropsychological tests that all show that just from pre-season to post season, even in the absence of any concussions that brain changes can be seen. just from the repettive trauma that athletes take from a season of football. or a season of soccer for that matter. >> are people who want to play, and in the case of kids, parents, being more careful about making that choice? i don't know that i see any sign but i am in the a close on server of the game. so maybe you see it. >> frankly, i don't see a sign, but i do see there's a greater recognition of the risks of playing the contact sport such as football.

and at least important, because in the past we just youd to play, and we got our bell rung, and brush ourselves off and keep playing, now there's a recognition, as the doctor has said, that you don't need to suffer. >> cumulative cause of irreversible damage. but it is important to understand what the signs and symptoms of the confusion are what a concussion is and what effects it can have. i would like to puck up on something that you asked is there a qume la tiff. >> it will show that it is likely to sustain a concussion in the few that if you do sustain that second one because you have had a first that the risk associated with permanent cognitive deficits increase significantly. they are also associated long term impacts from repettive concussions that a player will suffer. >> i want you to response to something that the

doctor said earlier, he gave credit to the nfl, but noted that at lower levels at younger levels those same kinds of precautions were not being taken and people weren't being more careful in the way that they are at the pro level. >> well, first of all, let me not give credit to the nfl. brett me start there, and deal with your question. the nfl should not be credited with being proactive, they are reactive. in this particular case, but they are reactive and not completely addressing the problem. the blaine injury association of america, national organization that advocates on behalf of people who have suffered a traumatic brain injury, has filed a brief a friend of the court brief, where the potential settlement is pending with the junk, saying that the settlement agreement that's proposed is in educated ."

because it fails -- on someone that has suffer add concussion or repettive blows to the head, in addition, the c. t.e., as the doctor has mentioned chronic traumatic which is causes the deterioration of brain function, is although it is recognized as a compensable injury in the settlement, it is not recognized as it should be. it is only recognized for those who have already died and have been diagnosed with it. it's understood that cte is a degenerative disease process. that occurs and remains and causes harm over time. and so it needs to be given effect, and compensation for those that suffer it over their lifetime. now, with respect to your question, the high school level, i think there is a trickle down effect.

i think there was a time when there wasn't too much emphasis put on what a concussion is, what the signs and symptoms are, but i i can tell you that i for one, am also president of brain injury association in d.c., and i drafted legislation that became law in the district of columbia, the concussion protection act of 2011, which made it man story for anyone, any youth athlete, participating in either public or private or sports as youth activities to include gym class, who suffering or suspected of suffering a concussion, must be removed from practice or play, and not returned until they are clears to do so, so there's greater awareness, and with that greater caution. >> doctor i want to hear from you later on whether the nfl has to be crassed to some of these, or

whether it came to them voluntarily, we will be back after a short break, we will talk more about the contra districtry impulses at play, encouraging people to play the game at younger and younger ages even as we learn more and more about concussion, the vulnerables of the neck be spinal column, and the long term effects of the game, as players get bigger, faster, and stronger, stay with us.

>> i'm ali velshi, the news has become this thing where you talk to experts about people, and al jazeera has really tried to talk to people, about their stories. we are not meant to be your first choice for entertainment. we are ment to be your first choice for the news.

welcome back to inside story. how to take the game with dangers understanding better and better, and take a dry eyed adult look at risks, priorities and protection. is it possible to balance our motions of toughness, manliness, our exultation of sucking it up and playing hurt, with the very real damage young people may do to their brains and spinal collums? dr. robert, just before the break, joe was talking about the fact that the nfl was not proaboutny this matter, i'd like to get your reaction, isn't it fair to say that they only recently admitted that there was a link between repeated trauma and these brain problems. >> yes that's very true. and i wasn't getting into exactly those issues about who was to be credited with what, and i do want to make that point clear in a second. you are very right, in

2008 when sports legacy was founded by chris and myself, the national football league was denying there was any connection between repettive pain injury, and later life diseases. fortunately now that's not within the case, and since 2010 no other league has taken as many changes as has been the national football league. but it is a fact, that that has been partly because of needing to react to the environment they are in, and the science that has come foract, and react, yes, to litigation as well. and i wasn't trying to say that the nfl should get all this credit, for the reduction in the amount of hitting, because that came it of the collective bargaining agreement, and the nfl p. a.m., with their lawyer agents, had a big role to play, of course, in that reduction in hitting because the nfl p.a. gets

it, they understand that this repettive head trauma is not good for their athletes and so they were instrumental in making these changes. but the nfl has gone along with it, and commissioner gadell has come forward with many overrule changes such as moving up the kick offs so most of the run backs are not happening now, identifying what is calls the defenseless player, receiving a ball that cannot be hit in the head, so many rules changes have happened but i do believe it is accurate to say that much of that has been reactive. >> do we also have to concede that a large number of people currently playing the game, certainly at the professional level but big college level as well, are going to suffer these maladies? that along with the terrible stories of men with severe mental disability and their how's and 50's, dies in

their 60's, there are a lot of people right now, who are going to end up that way as well? >> yes, that's absolutely true, the brain doesn't know whether it's being violently shaken because you fell off a bicycle or a motorcycle, or in a car accident. or had other falls and if you repeatively do this, susceptible individuals will develop cte. and we do see it in individuals and there are cases in the world easley rah churr, of people that never saw an athletic field. >> we want to bring in dave now from chicago, he is the lead studio host at the big 10 network. he is the author of the opening kick off, the birth of a football nation. welcome to the program, who are the fans in their hundreds of thousands head to big 10 games every week, ready to see a kinder gently form of big school football? >> well, i guess it

depends on how you define a kind her gentler form. i study the key periods. it was a huge injury crisis during this time period. and the rules of the game were changes very dramatically. in that time, the issue was the game was very come pressed, there were no forward passes people tried to run the ball through wedged formations where they would basically have ten guys plow over one would be tackler, and then the ball carrier would follow behind. the change that was made in the rules was the addition of the forward pass. which was resisted by many of the powers in the game many of the entrenched powers that were dominating because they felt that it might hinder their ability to win. so i mean it is happened in the past where the rules have changed i think it just depends what you are suggesting. and we have certainly

seen rule changes here in the past few years. >> along with what fans expect when they go to a game, are we also talking about physics? i looked back at it, and it turns out that in 1970, there was one, that's one player, in the nfl, who was north of 300 powns. and now in a 32 team league, there are 500 players north of 300 pounds. and a lot of them can run the 40, and the 100 yards faster than men half their size, are we just talking about a sort of upper limit to how much of a hit you can take when someone is running at you full speed? >> i would defer to the doctor on that, and that's not really my area of expertise, but i do think that the athletes are certainly bigger, stronger, faster than they have ever been. there's no doubt about that, and i -- it seems

to a sen extent to be like you say, just kind of the laws of physics that would dictate that. that's for people who have studying these injuries for me it would just be an observation. >> you have been watching the legal battles closely. i am sure over time there's been a study on the increase of injuries just from collisioned. >> well, we this' greater recognition, and that gives the uptick necessarily to the number of concussions that are reported well, that may be true, but it is a violent game. you have as you pointed out, you have bigger bodied human beings running at each other at full force, and i don't have to be a doctor to figure out if i get hit by one of these 300-pound guys i am not going to take too kindly to that hit. physically.

there are more collisions more and more incidents of problems associated with the game. as time has progressed. >> we will be back with more inside story after a short break, when we come back, we will talk about what the deaths injuries and life long debilitation may mean for the long term health of football itself. fans, schools, television networks, leagues all have interests that range far beyond the health of any one player. stay with us.

>> the thother of the opening kick off. with you, the becameinue remains popular at every level. if lower level of football began to adopt the new rules would we be less likely to see scenes like the recent one at michigan? where a player, the quarterback was rung up, wobbly on his knees and his coach kept him in the game.

well, i think there was a lack of communication there more than anything. it seems like that was chaos on the sidelines and the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, was the story that is coming out of othere. so i don't know if the rule changes would make a difference, it seems like the ball was dropped along the way there. >> was it really something that young men,s 18, 19,-year-old men should be thinking long and hard about? to think about being 50, should we be pushing them more. >> i think as we learn more and more, people are able to educate themselves more, look, it is up to each person to weigh the risk and reward. and what they think is

and isn't worth it. just protestor my study of the history, this has been an issue from the get go. whether the game is going to die, i talk about a period in the 1980's where the georgia legislature voted the 2122-7 to abolish the game, and the governor vetoed the bill. this is the latest set of challenges. we are armed with new information that gives people pause. >> are we talking enough to 18-year-olds about their 50-year-old self-s in. >> it is important to understand at the study, we studied six high school brains with traumatic, so as early as 17 and 18, we have seen c.t.e. in individuals. and then of course at the other end, the 76 out of

79 nfl brains we have seen, in the that group. so yes, this is a real concern. and it is a concern that led me to call for no tackle football under the age of 14 when the brain is most vulnerable. but i we have to practice football differently, we have to find ways to create less hitting in football to teach the techniques whether it be mannequins or other things and we are already seeing that happening in the practice that many coaches at the college level. very much behind and we are seeing nit the nfl where there are teams that are hitting not just 14 times in 18 weeks but not hitting at all. >> are the stakeholders ready to make those changes? you have litigated against them, are they ready? >> i don't know that they are. there's big money to be made in nfl football. these are -- there's

billions upon billions of dollars being made, and it's hard to give up that money. you can may lip service to okay, i got caught, i tried to hide the fact that -- and still hiding the fact, as the nfl is, we are hiding that we knew, that there were risks associated with the playing of football, long term significant risks but we didn't tell you. and. >> joe, we are going to have to continue this conversation, thank you for being with me this time on inside story, from washington, i'm ray swarez, thank you for joining us, see you next time.

>> it's christmas eve, and us soldiers are preparing for their last months in afghanistan. about forty thousand are still here - by the end of the year, there'll be just eight thousand. we traveled to afghanistan in the midst of this transition. but on the base we found a story that isn't being told.