than 200,000 years old. finds of this type are rare in western europe, with only 12 oversights yielding significant archaeological remains. the specimens wering found buried along the skeletons of a number of different animals. ♪ are failed drug war policies to blame for more complaints against the mexican police? and is the u.s. turning ab blind eye to the fight? ♪

our dij call producer and co-host, wamg waj is -- wajahat ali is here. >> you mentioned allegations of 600% rise in torture in mexico, and we asked is torture justified by the mexican military and government because of this, quote unquote, war on drugs. our community says: >> indeed it's not. a sharp rise in allegations of torture have many questions the country's escalated crime. complaints shot up 600% since 2003 according to a report by

amnesty international. human rights groups say it's because there is more pressure by the government to get more results. 64% of mexicans surveyed by amnesty are scared of being tortured if taken into custody, calling into question whether the practice has become an institutionalized aspect of the judicial system. so what is being done to address the spike in alleged torture, and what are the implications for fighting crime in mexico. we're joined by a senior associate in mexico. on skype from london, a campaigner at amnesty international out of mexico. he has worked with survivors of torture. and out of los angeles, this man's brother has been detained in mexico for almost six years and claims he was tortured

repeatedly. so maureen, the u.n. says this is a systemic problem in mexico. certainly mexico has a widely-known history of torture, but it seems to be expanding. why do you think that is it? >> well, as you said it's an historic problem in mexico. but the big shift was the former president's decision to heavily deploy the military and federal police forces to different parts of the country considered hot spots for organized crime to address the violence happening in mexico. so you had agencies that aren't really trained for interacting with the civilian population. they are looking at use of force not how to interact with the population. and you had a lot of pressure to show you are doing your job. which again is detaining people and then show them to the

public, to the government as guilty people, which a lot of times means torturing them into signing a confession which has traditionally been accepted in mexico as evidence against you. >> because it's a numbers game, right? >> yeah, i think the mexicans have always had a lot of pressure on conflicting people. not necessary convicting the right people, but convicting someone. so torture has been used to detain people and then convict them for crimes that a lot of times they didn't commit. >> mariano what did you learn on the ground particularly about who is being tortured? >> hello, yes, i was in mexico in 2012, but i have been in mexico since then many times, and i was there two weeks ago as well.

virtually anyone could be at risk of torture in mexico if arrested and coming into contact with federal police, soldiers, marines, with police in the states. we have seen cases of torture victims from all walks of life. >> we asked our community is torture ever justified: and we said there is a 600% rise in allegations of torture. what is the cause? drug war? corruption? lack of oversight? and jaime, i want to get you in the conversation, your brother angel has been in detention for six years and faced torture. briefly tell us his story. >> yes, my brother is from a

coast in the caribbean side of honduras, and his son got cancer, and that's when he decided to take the street to the united states to try to pay for his son medical care, and -- and that's when he went to tijuana, and while he's staying there, waited for [ inaudible ] that's when the federal -- i think the federal police raided the place where he was staying, and i think after that, the army took hold of him, but the torture part of it -- when i found out about my brother being tortured in mexico, i wasn't really surprised knowing how the situation in latin america is, and coming from a country like honduras, you know, you can experience it. and putting the point like especially the fact that you are a black man living in mexico, traveling through mexico as an

immigrant, that puts a little bit of extra weight. making it more difficult for you to cross. i think when i heard about the situation with my brother, i was like what is going to be the next point? how can i help my brother? but there's so much corruption in this country. so, i mean, there's no channel for you to actually address the situation of torture, so for me, it was like, well, how can i get my brother out? how can i help my brother. >> maureen we should mention that angel was a black honduran man. police were looking for a black honduran, and so police picked him because he fit the description. can we be specific here what kind of torture are we talking about?

>> one torture happens when they are detained before they are presented to a judicial system. it can include electric shock, and after fixation, and a lot of psychological torture, so it kind of returns the gambit, but certainly some of the more concerning techniques are in practice in mexico. >> if these numbers are accurate, it would indicate that law enforcement is contacting with impunity. how do you combat that? >> well, we are asking the federal attorney general's office to transform the way in which they carry out medical and

psychological and forensic assessment of alleged victims of torture, so these are assessed immediately. and these results can be used by the victims and lawyers working with them to prove torture, and in order to remove confessions, and in order to substantiate an investigation into the torture practices. those are really poor at the federal level and in particular at the state level. forensic teams do not have the capacity or willingness to tackle this problem. >> lisa you mentioned law enforcement how can we improve the situation? 64% of mexicans fear being tortured if taken into custody.

here is on extreme measure: not as easy, though. >> maureen we have about 30 seconds left in this segment, but is there a foreign minister problem with the mexican culture that people are presumed guilty until proven innocent. >> i think that used to be even in the constitution there wasn't the right to be presumed innocent. that was put into the constitution in 2008. but only 12% of mexicans report crimes. they don't trust law enforcement or the justice system. >> and later in the show we're going to talk about what you think can be done to flip that. the united nations has spent billions assisting mexico with its war on drugs. coming up next, we investigate how successful the war has been,

in a country where the drug trade makes up to 4% of its gdp. and later: hear how one woman is taking her torture allegations to the mexican courts.

♪ i am a reporter out of mexico city, and i am in "the stream." ♪ welcome back, we're discussing the rise in alleged torture of mexico's suspected criminals. experts say it may be happening in the name of the war on drugs. joining us now to discuss how u.s. involvement is impacting

mexico's policy is a former senior agent for the u.s. drug enforcement agency, he worked undercover in various countries for 25 years, and is author of the book ""deep cover." i want to get to your experiences in just a moment, but first i want to talk a few numbers. the u.s. dedicated about $400 million, since 2008 they have given about $2 billion on the war on drugs. is there any oversight attached to ensure that there aren't human rights violations happening with funds from the u.s.? >> there are. there are two mechanisms one prohibits the u.s. from training any military police that have been involved in any human rights conditions. and the other is the u.s. congress put on mexico, making

sure that we have some sort of mechanism to pressure the mexican government on its human right's record. so they conditioned 15% on conditions that include using force of torture to obtain evidence. >> 85% doesn't fall under that? >> no. >> that's a big chunk. >> it is. >> michael, based on your experience is it farfetched to believe that mexican law enforcement is engaging in torture to the degree that amnesty international is reporting? >> it's far from farfetched. it's business as usual going back to the late 50s. when i was a policeman stationed on the mexican border, and we knew if you get caught and go to a mexican jail on the other side of the border you are going to be tortured.

but in 1982, dea agent [ inaudible ] who was stationed in mexico, and by the way he was one of a small kadri of dea agents who worked deep cover cases around the world. and deep -- coming out of the -- the american console, he was stopped by mexican police, and he was told he wanted to be seen. he was arrested and tortured to death over a 24-hour period. one of the things they did was tire iron white hot and slowly inserted it in his rectum while recording his cries. and they had a doctor there to keep him alive while this was

going on. and i was one of the dea agent assigned in the hunt for the killers, and what we immediately found out was the mexican government was blocking all of the processes. >> michael that's an horrific case, do you suspect that similar coverups still go on today with regard to the alleged torturing of detainees? >> well, i know they do. and i only speak in terms of evidence. i'm not going to jump to wild conclusions about government policy. i have been well trained by our go, and i have evidence, for example -- i had a radio show for several years called the expert witness radio show, and we covered a case called the house of death in mexico, and this was 2008 or thereabouts,

and in that particular case a u.s.-government-paid informant working for ice and a u.s. prosecutor was taking part in the torture of mexican citizens with the mexican police and was recording that. >> michael, i have to go to my community. we are talking about the war on drugs, how they are working together: here is some snrad: we have a great facebook comment from shawn. he writes: >> maureen, easy question, the united states roll on the war in

drugs in mexico, is it complicit in overseeing the rise in torture and corruption? >> i think it has supported the model. particularly since 2008 with the initiative of a military-dominated operations to combat drug trafficking in the country. it has certainly worked on larg larger structural issues of reform. but it is certainly there. not any republic criticism, i would say of the mexican's human rights representative -- >> i really have to disagree, the history, in fact i caught them with their hands in the pie -- >> about 30 seconds left, michael. >> okay. bottom line, congress has been helping mexico on the war on drugs in spite of all evidence

to the contrary. and i don't know what else you can do but show the proof. and at the end of this horrific case in which the u.s. essentially covered for the people in the mexican government with whom i dealt face-to-face on camera, the u.s. government covered for them, and voted for them to continue on the war on drugs. >> all right. thanks so our guests. still ahead, how some are taking their torture cases to the courts. [ speaking spanish ] >> will it pave the way for more related cases in the future?

♪ >> welcome back, you just heard from a woman who claims she was tortured by mexican marines. she has sinces at tempted to

bring her perpetrators to justice. her lawyer joining us now. stephanie, claude's case obviously so brutal, but it also sounds fairly common. the u.s. gave about $100 million to help reform mexico's judicial system. is it working? this >> what we're seeing is both a delay in implementation of a new justice system which is supposedly going to put an end to torture. what we have also documented apart from claudia's case are cases in the new justice system in which armed forces continue to torture and hold innocent people. so as of now the new justice system is not delivering on its promise. >> we have another clip from claudia, describing her torture

in more detail. let's take a listen. >> maureen, you listen to something like that, and it's gut wrenching. and we talked earlier about how this has put such fear within the mexican population that if they get arrested or detains, this is going to happen to them. how do you flip this around, how do you create a workable situation between the police and the military and the population? >> i think there are several things that need to happen. the justice reform is important. and you need judges who are willing to throw out cases in which the prisoner says they have been convicted. and prosecute soldiers, police, anyone involved in torture

cases. the fact that they have had four convictions of torture on the federal level in the past few decades, shows they really don't decade cases. so if you are torture someone and no one is holding you responsible, you have very little incentive to not do it again. and we asked her community how can mexican lawyers and judges contribute to a decrease of allegations in mexico: and how can mexican judges and lawyers contribute to a decrease in torture? >> well, the judges can start by ordering investigations into any allegations of torture that they

hear in their testimony, in the hearings that they have with detainees. authorities can start to implement national datas to record all arrests in the country. there's a big concern with arbitrary arrests in particular, which is one of the first steps that puts people in a situation to then be tortured in the following hours in police custody, and as i said before, there is the urge to transform the way for [ inaudible ] are carrying out forensic expect nations of alleged victims of torture, so that torture is confirmed, and those elements are revealed and those expert reports can be used by victims and lawyers to prove the torture has hand. >> stephanie, is there a safe way for victims of torture to report their experience without fear of reprisal?

>> unfortunately there's no safe way to avoid any risk of reprisal. certainly we take steps with all of the victims to try to minimize that risk, but i think mariano touch is -- is touching on some very key points. and what we see is these victims are so brave. they denounce what has happened to them. they call for justice, and the authorities, in this case a federal attorney general's office, what they do is try to prevent the investigation of torture. claudia has two separate medical examinations. one by the national human rights commission, and one by independent experts, both of which find she was tortured. and the attorney general's office says it is not convinced it needs to carry out its own

examination. so those are the obstacles that victims face. >> and we reached out for the mexican government for a representative to come on the show, and they declined our invitation. what is the latest on claudia's case? >> the latest on her case is as i said right now the federal attorney general's office is not advancing in the investigation and as usually happens, it's telling her that she really has the burden of proof to investigation her own case and prove it. >> i guess the better question is what are you doing? >> yes, we filed legal remedies, because claudia, although she is free on bail, she continues to be on trial for crimes she did not commit. so we're defending those in those cases. those remedies are not final, so we're obviously hoping those charges are dropped. >> we have aaron that says:

maureen the drug trade makes up 3 to 4% of mexico's gdp. we have about 30 seconds left. final word. >> i think certainly mexico would like to see a reduction in violence, and would like to address drug trade in mexico, and all of the irregularities related to it. it's not an easy task. but we need to see a sustained commitment to fix the justice system, where people feel like they can report crimes, and i think also, really, long term police reforms, so you have police, and the military being held accountable for what they are doing. >> all right. thanks to all of our guests today. until next time, waj and i will see you online. ♪ ♪

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