thank you. that is all of our time for this news hour. i'm tony harris from new york city. if you you would like to see more on any of the stories, we can go to www.aljazeera.com. that's www.aljazeera.com. "inside story" is next. >> not ready to get pregnant right now, one option for women is to freeze their eggs. it's an interesting idea and an expensive choice. but what about when the boss is offering as a benefit. that's inside story. >> hello, i'm ray suarez. egg freezing, that is setting

aside a woman's eggs to use them later to get pregnant is not new technology, but it's only recently been certified as something other than experimental. opening it up to a different type of status or insurance or healthcare. maybe a woman is getting to an age where conceiving gets tougher, but sees no partner, and sees that as a vital pre-condition for having a kid. maybe a woman is in a career are leaving the workplace to have a baby does not seem to be in the cards. or maybe you want more control over the timing of children in your life period. egg freezing is now a new employee benefit. if you work for facebook or apple the option to put off having children for a decade may an click away. this week the two silicon valley titans announced their benefits packages for female employees will offer two rounds of egg

freezing treatments, a procedure that can cost close to $20,000. apple said in a statement that we want to empower women at apple to do the best work of their lives as they care for loved ones and raise families. >> it takes some of the financial burden off so that then the woman--it's almost like a no-brainer decision to do this, and still feel great about having that insurance policy to pursue a family later on when they're ready. >> young professional leah has gone through rounds of treatment. >> i just wanted an option. i want to focus on my career. i have not met mr. right yet, and i wanted to know that when i was ready i would be able to go back and have kids. >> why would the companies want to offer this incentive to women? the nature of this traditionally male-dominated tech industry could be one reason. for example, at apple 80% of the workforce is male. at facebook it's 85%.

this lopsidedness is reflected in management. at apple 72% of management is male. at facebook, 77%. >> you come in to get pregnant at 42 and 43, and we have eggs from when you were 35, it's like setting the clock back seven or eight years. that's a huge advantage. >> in the land of free food, free hair cuts, even free dry cleaning, is freezing eggs just another perk. is it a way to squeeze more work out of employees. >> it's not for an employer to tell you when and where you should have a baby. you should be able to have your baby when you want. it's none of their business. >> what about additional benefits for working moms? is egg freezing discouraging motherhood? >> only offering them financial support to freeze eggs is perhaps not the full package one would like to imagine, that perhaps they would support women to work part time and have

children an. >> it was once reserved for women going through infertility treatment. only an estimated 2,000 babies have been born from frozen eggs. >> are you sure you want a kid now? maybe you want to get back to your desk right now. a special benefit for working women, freezing your eggs this time on the program. just what a career woman needs or false concern in a high-pressure working environment. joining us for our conversation, bridget adams, in our studio, shareen mitching.

bridget adams, let me start with you. what was your first reaction when you heard that apple and facebook were going down this road? >> i froze my eggs three years ago, which was a little bit of an early adopter to it, and i was thrilled. not just because of the perk, but it's raising a consideration which is not there that it's so hard to have it all, and it's giving women more options, and hopefully the media attention that's happened over this week, i think its just really showing us that we need to make some major total shifts to enable women to remain in the workforce longer. >> when you did it, you mentioned that you did it a couple of years earlier, what kind of conversations did people engage you in? did they want to know more about it? did you have to explain what it was in the first place? >> when i said, you know, egg freezing, most people just looked at me a little

dumbfounded. the conversation had not begun three years ago. that's one of the reasons why i started the website. i had done a lot of research. i spent a lot of time looking into things that i just couldn't find the information i needed, and i felt like i needed to give back because after i had frozen my eggs i had this big sigh of relief. emotionally i had a lot of pressure taken off me, and i feel like i needed to give back to a community of women, and also just talking about our fertility a little more. we're not doing that, and we need to own our own fertility and understand and gain knowledge. >> joining us now from amherst, massachusetts, the author of "cracked open:liberty, and the pursuit of high tech babies." what was your reaction to this news that two corporate giants were going to offer this as a benefit? >> my first reaction was why is apple and facebook offering a

policy that is not condoned by the american society for reproductive medicine in the american college of obstetrici obstetricians and gynecologists. the 2012 listing of the experimental label was specifically focused on the medically indicated need for egg freezing. they said that the lack of safety and efficiency data did not allow to use this technology to defer child bearing. they're concerned about the health risk to women and potential offspring as a result of the chemical processes used in freezing eggs. there is not enough data available to tell us it is safe for children. of the 981 studies reviewed by the american society of reproductive medicine only one

112 of the studies they reviewed provided enough safety efficiency data that they were looking for. with that information they did decide to lift the experimental label, but only for medically indicated cases. not for women who are choosing to defer child bearing. part of their statement said we do not want to create false hope. >> so briefly, just to clarify, your on just is that a policy like this will welcome into the treatment people who otherwise wouldn't be indicated for it? >> absolutely. and as someone who went through infertility treatments because i had what was called age-related infertility. i'm one of those women who waited so long, but in fact, i didn't have something called age-related infertility. i had the beginning of

menopause, which has become a medicalized condition for what is a natural process in the female body of fertility decline. my deep deep concern particularly because of my role in the take our daughters to work program, which i helped to create, and also because of my role on the board of our bodies, ourselves, a global women and girls human rights organization, and many of you know that our bodies ourselves was the first women's health book ever to be published in the world, they're very concerned about the fact that healthy young women are now being encouraged to subject themselves to egg retrieval and hormonotherapies used in the production of the ovaries. there are risks associated with that. they're understudied, and there are very few long-term studies that show us what the long-term effects of these hormones are on the body.

>> i want to get reaction from bridg bridget, but first i want to go to shareen. you know the gender imbalances, and here are two of the best well-known brand names on the planet saying we're going to help you time your fertility. >> my first reaction was this is a good idea. most companies do not offer this sort of benefit. i think ultimately people took it, well, women will have children later and this is just one of those benefits to do that. i think there are pressures, and sometimes when you're working with a young population both women and men you want to offer as many benefits as possible. i think ultimately most companies should offer a better workplace environment, a family friendly environment so that people can make good choices whether to have children later or have children now.

in the tech industry the pressure is that the hours are long. most of the time women do not stay in these industries because they do decide to go have children, and ultimately i can see why facebook and apple are trying to offer this. however, at the end of the day what would really be helpful is having a family-friendly work environment where people can take off time to have children as long as those benefits are available, and i think facebook does offer some of them. >> the hours are long but voluntarily or involuntarily. when erik schmidt took ove over--provided what he called adult supervision in a room that was still a very young company, he said one of the first rules he put in place was that he couldn't sleep at work. you had to go home. he had to force people to go home. >> i think that sometimes the concept of voluntarily--i think everyone has a different

interpretation of that. people who are not working hard enough, and if you do take off there are challenges of people who don't have kids say they do not get the same benefits of those who do have kids, that they can leave work earlier, and having a child for a man is not as much of a penalty as it is for a woman. there are those cultural aspects i in the work environment, and we have to look at if we can take the time off and have a choice to start a family. ultimately at the end of the day any benefit that would allow them to work in the work environment. >> there is a workplace culture that, let's say, keeps you chained to your death desk even if you would like to go home. >> exactly. deadlines, pressures to meet deadlines. the work load is pretty heavy. you're trying to manage your

time at work and manage time at home. ultimately they want to get projects completed, and you know, i've been there where at the end of the day you're thinking your day is going to be one way and it ended up being a longer day. you have to stay longer for a particular reason to get a deadline reason, ultimately you want people who feel like they have the flexibility to go home if they need to and take care of the family. >> we'll be back with more inside story after a short break. the range of reactions to the proposal to apple and facebook has been fascinating. from a frank admiration to the cutting edge approach to the workplace to the unease to gender and class issues raised by the policies to straight-up rejection. stay with us.

>> welcome back to inside story. i'm ray suarez. facebook and apple have added egg freezing costs as a benefit for their female employees. is it just the latest attempt to attract and hold top talent by adding to an already lavish array of benefits, or vaguely creepy in the way that you can't necessarily explain. reactions of both flavors are much out there. bridget adams, let's get reaction from you. you heard the critique of moving to this policy, especially at a time when it's been indicated for women who may have trouble

conceiving, but not as a way of timing for fertility. >> i was at that conference in 2012 when they did lift the experimental label for cancer patients and other medical issues. a lot of the buzz was that they sidestepped the issue. i think at the end of the day this is a very polarizing issue. it's the discussion that the pill was in my mother's generation. my experience is it's my body. my eggs. my life veered out of course. i wanted a traditional family. i won't be guaranteed a pregnancy but okay accepting the possibility because at the end of day i wanted--i wanted the

option of using my eggs if they work, which most women that do freeze their eggs, and i know a lot of women, and i think that's--we're not talking to the women who are doing it or thinking about do it. there are conversations spinning around, but there is not a lot of talk to these women who are actually wanting to utilize it or think about it. i think you know, it comes down to flexibility, as you said. it's a benefit. apple and facebook are not pushing it down people's throats. they're offering it like a benefit like going back and getting your mba or adoption. yes it feels different. it seems that on this particular subject, which involves after all going into the human body and taking out substance produced by you that is encoded

with everything that you are. it feels different from giving you an education benefit or extra week of vacation or something like that. >> i can see why this feels uncomfortable to people. you have to remember that there are women who are dealing with infertility and do need donation of eggs. that does happen in that process where people sometimes donate their eggs for other people to have babies. just as there is a sperm bank. ultimately, it is a benefit. i mean, i have to say i do not see that many women using this particularly the number of women who any of these companies may have. the number of women there i think it's about 20% given at any company. so the use of this benefit i think the company is saying we're going to offer this, but we're not going to have too many people using this benefit. >> as you note it is option. but should that option come with

a warning like a pack of cigarettes that the efficiency is not that high. it's no shrivel bulle silver bullet, a and if you wait longer your chances of being a parent are lower whether you use the ibf route or conceive at an older age. >> i think that's a conversation with your doctor, not with your employer. and that's where it should be in terms of the conversation about what women should do with their bodies and what is possible. because every person is different, and how they would handle that, and how their bodies would react to any of these situations. there are plenty of women who didn't have to deal with infertility, and there are those who have. i'm concerned, though, that

we're actually starting to tell women that the likelihood of them not being able to have children is higher now, and that ultimately they still have to figure out how to be a mother when for some women they may not even choose this option but they may not choose to have a family. >> miriam, you laid out your misgivings about this new policy from apple and facebook. are there things that the company could do to thread the needle, make it clearer to female employees what they're dealing with, and let's say a more transparent layout of what this all might entail. that would pass your sniff test. >> well, given the information that i have linked to ibf. ibf has been around for 36

years. egg freezing has been around you since 1986. there is a small amount of data available. the amount of data we have on ibf would inform to the health concerns. two large studies have been conducted. the one from the university of adelaide released in 2012 is the most comprehensive that we have to date. it showed an increased associated risk of up to 28% of birth defects, abnormality. increased rates of cerebral palsy. as someone who went to ibf, and took risks with my own physical body, and the process itself, and the hormone treatments, for anyone who has gone through fertility treatments over any extended period of time, particularly when they fail, the

mental health risk along with the physical health risk along with the data of children's health and increase of birth defects it's something that needs to be taken much more seriously in the discussion particularly in the u.s. where there is such an aggressive market being used on the part of clinics and those capitalizing that these procedures are successful and safe. globally every year there is 1.5 million ibf cycles conducted. of those 1.5, 1.2 fail. >> we'll be back with more "inside story" after this short break. it's part of our discomfort with the policy the clash between decades' long effort to insist that within the workplace men and women aren't different while

embedded at the heart of an egg-freezing benefit is a reminder that they're not. stay with us.

>> you're watching "inside story" on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. the cutting edge in employee benefits this time on the program, a few leading tech companies have told their female employees they'll pay for freezing their eggs. tech companies are legendary for their long hours and pressure to produce. the proffered benefit and reaction have both been fascinating. still with us when you think about the women who work in tech. they tend to be highly a analytical, data driven and believe in science, is this a seductive offer, hey, you can keep on working on your career now and here is, as we believe in science this benefit that

could benefit you 12 years into the future, you young woman? >> i think i could see why people would see it that way. but ultimately it's still a benefit. i'll say i don't think apple and facebook think that many people will accept this benefit. i think also, as you mentioned, people in the industry are thinking through their career and choices for their families and thinking through the options they have. if this is an option, i think that's a benefit. i don't think it's hai think its giving them a choice. we talk about healthcare. the ibf fertility treatments are generally not paid for during most healthcare. so the truth is that to have this as a benefit and have it as an option that healthcare would pay for is a broader conversation as well. this should not be seen as a

seductive issue but a healthcare benefit and option for women in general. and maybe other companies should pick this up and other organizations. >> miriam zoll, do you expect we'll see this from other companies, briefly, before we go? >> i have a feeling there is going to be copycatting going on, but there is a 77% failure rate of women age 30 who freeze their eggs and failure of live birth. you're going against the protocol of fertility experts and offering something to women that fails the majority of the time. that has fall out on deep depression. >> will this drive more people to your site because people are going to be curious about what this is all about?

>> it already has. in terms of the comment about deep depression, i was in a deep depression when i couldn't meet anyone and i was--my ovarian r reserve kept dwindling. once i froze my eggs there was a sigh of relief. we know we're not stupid. we research. we know the possibility. there is not a lot of data out there, and ibf data is generally women who do ibf with older, thus their eggs are not as healthy. i think the conversation at the end of the day it's a technology, the technology has increased. we don't have all the answers yet, but i'm betting, you know, i'm betting my eggs, story for the pun, allowing the possibility as an option. right now our timeline is so condensed between college, grad school, finding a mate, it's getting harder and harder. if this gives us a little sigh of relief it's very important in

my book. >> bridget adams, miriam zoll. shareen, great to have you all here today. thanks for being with us. the program may be over but the conversation continues. i'm convinced that a lot of you want to weigh in on what is a fascinating new benefit offered by these two companies. or express your opinion on any day's program. log on to our facebook page. send us your thoughts on twitt twitter. that's @aj inside story am. or reach me at @ray suarez news. in washington, i'm ray suarez. >> coming up at 6:00 p.m. eastern, president obama appoints an ebola czar to oversee the fight of the disease. the world organization admits it botched the initial response. we'll dig through the bad

information and get straight answers about the dangers of ebola. the school girls kidnapped by boko haram are still missing, and we look at how a controversial political ad backfired. those stories and more coming up at 6:00. >> i am not sfraed of code. >> the president of estonia tried his hand at computer programming when he was 13 years old. his country is now a world leader in technology. you can start a company in minutes. >> we could store our national data in nsa computers. are a son of refugees who fled soviet ruled estonia. they different like me, too much.