you would watch me walk out and drown. >> what an image that is. >> that's our show for today. a reminder to our viewers. in most states, early voting for the 2014 mid-term has now begun. i am david shuster on behalf of all of us at "power politics," thanks for watching. drugs in short supply, plan b can leave firing squads and electric lisa fletcher is out.

all of the live feedback from our third host of the show. the online community, whenever we host i have the point light hearted topics first it was abortion, but in all seriousness, this is the third real topic in america, you can't mention it without a debate. i am sure our online community is heating up. >> not just about the different methods but the death penalties makes sense all together. there is no civilized way to kill, buzz kaling is inherently uncivil id. and then we have vincent here that says we should give murders the same consideration they gave their victims. keep talking my man. throughout the show. should those condemned to death be forced to face the firing squad? the death penalty is legal in more than 30 states, with roughly 3,000 waiting on death row.

the united states has caried attainerly 1300 executions 87% using he that will injection, it is a method viewed as humane. now states are fating a dilemma, maker oz f a key ingredient are halting production of the drugs or refusing to sell to pres. manufacturers say it is due to objections over capitol punishment. some states are now looking at alternatives. ohio carries out an execution using a new two drug cocktail. dennis maguire, quote, gasped snorted and make choking sounds. the longest in ohio's history. >> i don't want anyone to deal with what we dealt with. meanwhile, other states are considering reviving the use of electric chairs and firing squads. doing so would amount to cruel and unusual

punishment. helping shape this discussion is jerry give venns former executioner in virginia who now campaigns against the death penalty. former law professor now at the national center for public policy research, and aaron hainey an attorney who representing inmates on death row. welcome everyone to the stream. louisiana postponed afternoon execution using the same drugs to execute dennis maguire. some people are calling for a nationwide halt, what is the main concern now? >> i think the main concern, and the person that tweeted in on hit on it. s there a moral way to execute somebodien. and by and large, no matter what method we have tried we found there is not. initially in california, we had executions by gas chamber.

and it was found tonnening constitutional, and to constitute cruel and unusual punishment. as a result of that we have turned to he that will injection. there are a lot of charges to the three drug protocol, but to use protocol like ohio did, which consistents only of two drugs, a protocol that hasn't been tested and that we really don't know what is happening while we are executing the person, is goes kind of beyond unethical, and really into experimenting upon people who have been condemned to die. >> do you think this lack of transparency about the ingredients in these cocktails as they are calling them, even the lack of trank spainsy about who is making them, should at least temporarily halt these until we find out more. >> . >> little to nothing to do with the real questions with the legality. it is a constitutional question. it isn't a moral or ethical question. it is a question about whether or not the

constitution authorizes and allowed the capitol punishment, implementation that occurs in most of the states in america. and, in fact, while there have been some restrictions on kellie mennation, the court has yet to hole that you simply cannot execute a person as a punishment for the crime. now, i imagine, with the present conservative majority sitting on the court, if we were to revisit the question of the gas camer and these older methods you may see a different posture from the court but it would be helpful, i think, to bring it to the court and allow them to ratify or confirm that, in fact, states do have this authority, it's constitutional, and that's what the public wants.

specially 37 by he that will injection. s there a humane way to implement the death penalty? >> that is -- i haven't found a humane way to -- i was on the other end. and i actually participated in this, and i would say death by electrocution, is rough. you've got 2500 to throe thousand volts going through a human body, and say the guy weighed 190 pounds at the most. w that much electricity going through the human body you know it is going to cook it inside. and whatever electric going in has to come out, and when it comes out, 100% of the guys that are executed had burn marks. >> 37 by he that will injection, a majority says that is more humane, you have been in a unique position, what is your take on that. >> he that will injection, myself,

personally, when i witnessed some he that will injections that occurred in texas, god was singing and he completed the song before he was pronounced dead. i say the chemicals didn't kick in, and on the other end, pushing the syringe, i felt more attacked as personally, i disgrow with it. and i told him that. >> is that the reason why you oversaw 62 executions but now recently, you are in the virginia senate, testifying against capitol punishment. is that personal, is what made you shift. >> well, when a guy comes on death row and is nine days fromming with executed. it puts doubt in the 62 people i killed. i always say to myself, i would never want to execute an innocent person, because that makes me on the sake

level as the condemned person. who took an innocent life. so should they execute me for taking an innocent life, if i execute an innocent person. that's what made me change. when that one guy, earl washington, came through the death house, and then he was exonerated, it put some doubt in my mind. >> and speaking about doubt, a lot of our community here is expressing doubt, also outrages what are they saying? >> they are putting out the question of whether they are giving up the he that will injection, whether that would change them all together. some are suggesting wringing back the firing squad. bryan on the other hand said they should go back to firing squad, thes that cheap and effective.

horace do you think it matters whether it is how we put people to death? is that something that matters? >> i think the constitution dud provide some parameters but i think they are pretty broad. now, if the question is that the individuals responsible or assigned to the task of hanling the execution, end up finding that that experience is harmful to them, we can out mate the process. there are a significant number of techniques that can be undertaken that would require six weeks out that there be no human interaction in that process. but here is the point. the point is that the nature of the crimes that these individuals have been found guilty of, it is justifiable and constitutional, for the soto agree that they should pay the ultimate price, and receive the

ultimate penalty. >> aaron, you mentioned cruel and unusual in the beginning, you heard what horace had to say, does this amount to what you say a violation of the 8th amendment? after being used in ohio, would you say that this cross it is line, and becomes uninstitutional, becomes cruel and unusual? >> absolutely. i think that having the government experiment on people who some of the time have, in fact, done heinous things. people who are guilty, they are still in fact, people. so the idea that what we need to do is simply remove any human interaction, really gets at the eye behind the death penalty. which is we are dehumanizing human beings in order to be able to do this. do we want to be a society that stoops to the level of criminals? that does to criminals precisely the act in

which we found to be so abhorrent. >> before we go to break, omar. >> some more comments here. the u.s. needs to let criminals know they take the matter seriously. who says bring back the electric chair. quite a sentiments. heather who says here is a radical alternative to he that will injections they should stoll killing people all together. keep tweeter, you can #ajami stream. next, he didn't commit the crime, but lost over a decade doing the crime. this is the first man to be exonerated by dna

murder, sent to death row, and finally in 2002 we had dna evidence that matched another man, and i was subsequently reare leased and he was arrested for the murder, i spent ten months three years and eight days. >> i am the only female in the united states that has been exonerated from death row.

two of which were spent on death row. you ended up being the first u.s. prisoner exonerated due to dna evidence, you have lived this, how important is it for america to get this process right. >> well, it's very important. we have had 143 individuals who have been convicted of crimes they didn't commit. you know, we sit here, and we talk about how we are going to execute a person, but before we even think about why we shouldn't. and there's been so many different people who have been exonerated, you can't climb over the innocent to get to the guilty. this whole thing was based on an eyewitness with testimony, in my case that was 6'5", curly blond hair, bushy mustache, and skinny.

at the timaraus you have seen in the promo, my hair was add red. we get it wrong, and we can't execute people when we get it wrong. for 143 aircraft fell from united airlines in the last 30 years we would have none of them planes in the rare. >> kirk, we are talking about this debate about using the new he that will injection, it took 26 minutes to kill dennis maguire in ohio, as a person who has sat on death row, shows these executions being be halted until we have more transparency. >> no way it should take place in america. >> convicted and sentenced to death row, we can't do this any more, i understand that the public wants retribution, was that's not what this is about.

don't climb over me to kill a guilty man. >> federal prosecutors plan to seek the death penalty for bombing suspect. the feds argue "in a especially heinous, cruel & lacks remorse for the bombing that kill three people. reaction to the decision is mixed. >> i can see this contention debate already boiling up on twitter. >> yeah, we have a exempt also from henry who says there should be no death penalty until a conviction from dna, too many fought to be mend, and many innocent put to death. in illinois many on death row were exonerated or justice system can deliver perfect justice, if we kill it can't be corrected.

question also put out whether about families should have a say in this. victims families are also victims their input should matter. i want to put this to you, if you have a family that has lost someone to some vicious crime, whether there was sexual abuse orator churr. they tell you that they cannot find peace. unless the person who committed this crime is no more, how do you argue about that, what do you say to them. >> so i think taking into consideration, the family of the victims feelings it is important, and we have a process to do that called victim impact. but i think at the end of the day,s we don't have vigilante justice, and there are a number of factors that can contribute to a killing. societal factors, vol innocenter factors, human error. prejudice, all kinds of things. and part of the aim of the justice system is to remove some of the emotion, remove some of

the bias, remove some of that desire to fill that emotional void, that's left by losing a loved one. and to come in and think about what is right. as rah government, and as a society, what should we be doing. >> horace, look, in colorado fighting to keep the state from executing his son's killer as you heard there is someone in boston who believed the 17-year-old suspect shouldn't be executed instead should get life in prison. should the views of the family's be considered. >> as we just heard, we don't have a vigilante system, we don't have a system that says whatever the impacted individuals decide is ultimately going to be the consequence. it's society's responsibility. now, these two brothers plotted schemed and plans to murder as many people as possible at the boston marathon. we are going to have a trial. they will be -- he will

be allowed to make the arguments about why he did what he did, and try to argue that he shouldn't get the maximum punishment, but the truth is after all of that evidence goes forward, he absolutely is likely to be found guilty, and determined to be the next federal executed prisoner. that's a process that will immediately lead to a series of appeals, but once that process is completed. i will be satisfied that the penalty that is arecessed is one that is just. >> how do they respond to your conviction, and what do they say to you about hearing you are innocent of the crime. >> in the beginning everybody wanted me to die. the prosecutor wanted me to do i, they said he did it. the police officers wanted me to die, they said he did it.

the entire state of maryland thought to me as the most hated man in america. but in the end, in the final analysis, they were all dead wrong. this blooming suspect in boston, we haven't even had a trial yet. and let's see what they have to say. and instead of worrying about so much how a person should be executed. we should start worrying about people like from witness to innocence, who haven't done a thing wrong. we are putting people in prison who are innocent as the day is long. ray crone and sabrina butler, explains it quite clear, 143 people. we can no long very the death penalty in this country. >> jared, before we go to break, how critical is the execution to the healing process of the healing process? >> well, i look at kurt's situation, and then you

take my position as executioner, kurt was in virginia, and kurt had lost all his appeals and i had executed kurt, you get what i am saying. that was an innocent life i took. how would i deal with myself? how does an executioner live with himself to take an innocent life. and it shows that innocent people is on death row. things can happen in this world, death is going to come to all of us, if a hurricane come through here, and kill your chile, you know your family can only get mad at god. you can't blame god, when things like that happen, death will come to all of us. >> sara says her objections to the death penalty it's expensive and hopefully people are noticing how many innocent people have been killed. capitol punishment has proven to be a complete failure. and we also have alex who says reare perking to the earlier question about the wishes of the families says their wishes are the biggest

reason are why the death penalty shouldn't exist. referring to the cases where the families say we have experienced that hand first hand, we don't want to see that reare pete with the perpetrator.

♪ welcome back. we are assesse future of the death penalty in the united states. question asked our community, should it be abolished or leave to the united states. >> we with have some comments on this. we with leave it to the states, national policy could require federal funding and higher taxes. we have kimberly who says it is a state issue. arguably making is what caused the revival of the death penalty.

but note that every other punishment is the state issue. >> horace with a few minutes we have left. close to $200 million on five executions. now some see that economic cost as the reason to push for life in prison. what are your thoughts. >> well, the states that have eliminated the death penalty are waiting for the new set of attackens are that are going to come. showing of innocence etc., because it isn't a perfect system. we should reinvest in it, we should look at it and working better but the truth is opponents generally speaking just oppose the concept. and that is that internationally the move is not as clear as people have said. critics of the death penalty, you are seeing in the u.k., and in france, you are are seeing australia, and places like poland, a movement.

some memberrens of the m.p.es and the conservatives e.u. are pushing against the whole idea that that continent out to be death penalty. >> i want to get everyone in here. 2.4 million, is life in prison the best alternative to the death penalty, if not, what is. >> i think certainly in our current system, life in prison without the possibility of parole is the best alternative, i think we have tremendous problems in our system. and that it is important to continue to litigate those problems and to draw awareness. we want to have the best system, and a system that has the most chances of rehabilitating people, as well as not convicting innocent people. and so the extent that we can move away from models that focus soully on punishment, and get back to models that look at the causes of crime, and how we can deter crime in the future, it is a good thing, and it is

absolutely the right direction to be moving in. is it enough? no. is it a good start, yes. >> all right, kurt, final 30 seconds i want to give it to you. how should america move forward. >> we can't have the death penalty. this sentence of death is having it's day. tells me one thing that the government and the criminal justice system, got it dead wrong. and the next time we might execute somebody, it will be somebody like me. an innocent man. >> thank you to all of our guests for this fantastic conversation. thank you for joining us and thank you as always for our fantastic community for all of your live feedback, until next time, we will see you online at aljazeera.com/ajami stream.

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