>> consider this: the news of the day plus so much more. >> we begin with the growing controversy. >> answers to the questions no one else will ask. >> real perspective, consider this on al jazeera america >> this c.i.a. director's extraordinary mood to dispute the senate report on the c.i.a. and torture. bernie madoff's secretary of 20 years joins us as new outrage comes out in the case. and a debate over fraternity in americas. -- in america. >> i'm antonio mora, welcome to "consider this". those stories and more ahead.

>> detention and interrogation produced intelligence. >> the director defending the programme. >> in some instances we failed to live up to standards. >> i was bernie madoff's secretary. >> people don't see it as a violent crime. people committed suicide. >> tensions rise in the west bank. >> there seems to be disagreement over the cause of death. >> a palestinian minister ziad abu ein. >> dying during a clash with israeli troops. >> f.a.a. is citing tour companies for drone use. >> it could be a disaster with passenger jets. >> dozens of near-collisions. >> powerful storm crippling the west coast. >> large chunks of land breaking apart leaving homes dangling. we begin with an unprecedented news conference by a director of the c.i.a., and

the unprecedented live push back he got on twitter from the chair of the senate intelligence committee. c.i.a. director john brennan took to the podium at langley headquarters after days of criticism following the release of report on eits used against al qaeda. >> what are your views are on eits, our nation and in particular this agency did a lot of things rite during this difficult time to keep this country strong and secure. >> but as brennan criticized the finding, they were quick to reply - did the brutal techni e techniques help recover osama bin laden. >> information was provided that was useful and used in the operation to go against osama bin laden. >> senator dianne fienstein's

response: was the c.i.a. honest when it discussed the programme with its civilian overseers. >> the record simply does not support the study's interest. that the agency systematically and intentionally misled others on the effectiveness of the programme. >> senator dianne fienstein, former c.i.a. council, preston said: was the committee report a partisan attack? >> unfortunately the committee could not agree on a bipartisan way forward. senator dianne fienstein: for more, i'm joined by al jazeera senior washington correspondent mike viqueira. mike, good to see you. these two unprecedented event, a news conference by the director of the c.i.a. defending the agency, and at the same time the

chair of that senate committee that issued the report cailenting him on twitter. and all your time in washington - have you ever seen anything like this? >> i guess it's a bold new world in a way, and technology facilitates that, things have changed. i was struckly dianne fienstein doing that. she's not the aggressive in our face-type. she's old school. dianne fienstein is exemplary of that. to have her taking issue point by point during the speech was unusual. almost as if they were trolling to use the term, trolling john brennan. she put out a written statement largely conciliatory really, but is taking issue with the phrase that brennan adopted from the white house talking point. he didn't use it in the statement on tuesday when the report was released. an unknowable phrase - whether or not the same information could have been gleaned from people who were intention

interrogated, prisoners interrogated, detainees without harsh techniques. the white house said it's unknowable, may as well not discuss it. president obama certainly has not been eager to talk about it over the course of the last days. and jacob brennan is using the phrase as well. dianne fienstein certainly taking issue with that. >> so that point, let's listen to brennan defending the use of enhanced interrogation techniques. >> there was useful intelligence, very useful, valuable, that was obtained from individuals who had been at some point subjected to eits. whether that could have been obtained without the use of those eit, is something that is unknowable. dianne fienstein tweeted: seems that they don't - can't

agree on anything when it comes to the substance of the report. >> john brennan walked up to drawing a cause and effect between enhanced interrogation techniques and getting the information. he stopped short. he used phrases and words like subsequent. there was the enhanced interrogation, and subsequently there was information that proved useful, actionable intelligence information that proved useful. he didn't make the connection, saying it's unknowable. he left open in his mine that the enhanced techniques led to accessible intelligence. >> then there are the politics. colorado senator mark udall insisted he wants john brennan to resign. at the white house on wednesday, press secretary had this to say... >> john brennan is a dedicated

professional, dedicating his time in public service to protecting the united states of america. that makes him a patriot, and it makes him someone who has the full confidence of the president of the united states. >> you know, again, this all seems skitsio friendic. you -- schizophrenic. the have the c.i.a. director disagree with the white house. he's disagree with them. he disagrees with the report. you have the head of the intelligence committee, a power. democrat, you know, tweeting against him. then the white house says "hey, even though he disagrees with us and our person in the senate, we support him." >> well, there's currently a strong bond between president obama and john brennan. in the speech john brennan recounted his career at the c.i.a. started in 1980, and was in the upper echelons of management during the september 11th attacks.

he served in the bush administration, carried over into the obama administration. and was part of the c.i.a. when the enhanced techniques were carried out, and he said that he was outside the chain of command. today you heard him say that a lot of people who were carrying out the interrogations, many not trained to do so at least at the outset of the programme in 2002, went outside the guidelines. he called it harsh, abhorrent. something he views as regrettable. he was in the bush administration. he carried over, he has been a familiar figure at the white house. as president obama's anti-terrorism expert on the national security council, and moving to the c.i.a. look no further than out in the driveway yesterday as all this

exploded. i think it was this morning. john brennan was seen leaving the white house. why? not because he had a pregame before his speech with president obama, but he's here virtually every morning, sitting. the president and other presidents get a briefing. so the president obama you have seen walking a fine line between coming out against the techniques, which after all he banned in one of the first days in office, and closing the black sites, rendition sites, and the president close to brennan, trying to defend the mission of the c.i.a. and the people, because yes rely on them very much. >> it was thursday morning. it's been a long day. al jazeera's senior washington correspondent mike viqueira, good to have you with us. >> for more on the c.i.a.'s director. i'm joined by glen carl, serving 23 years in the c.i.a. and wrote

about his experience interrogating a senior al qaeda detainee in his book "the integrator - an education." director brennan tried to put the integrator programme in context, talking about the fear that swept the country after 9/11, and the information that they had that suggested that more attacks were on the way. he said that the agency was in no shape to handle al qaeda prisoners, saying the c.i.a. was unprepared to conduct a detention and interrogation programme, and officers were adequate and monitored activities, the agency failed to establish the operational guidelines needed to govern the entire effort. you were signed to work as an integrator. were you prepared? >> i think those - each of those statements in some ways that john mead, whom i know and respect quite a bit is true. they also were, in many ways,

the weakest part of his statement. being unprepared - okay. but that doesn't mean you have a right to get it wrong, glaringly. i was not prepared. i'm not an integrator by profession. the cia didn't have any, i'm a case officer. my job was to get people to spy for the united states. it's not the same thing. nonetheless i quickly figured it out and didn't do that. >> what was the message you got as to what you could do? in the middle of the chaos and being unprepared. >> well, it was unacceptable and from the first second i knew that i was confront with what was the greatest crisis of my career. i was told do whatever it takes to get him to talk. i protested and was told that we could do essentially anything. i then saw a lawyer to find out what was torture, and was told - this is according to john yu, a

political hack saying anything short of vital organ failure or death does not constitute torture, it's mill arky - that's to frivolous. it's outrageous. it's obvious to my because i know the law and my oath, as did many of my colleagues. not to be prepared - really, i was prepared to uphold my oath. that was the weakest part of john's preparation. >> he hedged a lot when it came as we talked about mike viqueira about he has, when it came to the brutal techniques, and whether they obtained valuable information, it seemed that the coercive techniques had been effective. you disagree. >> i do disagree. he was more subtle than that. he said that information abuse was obtained from detainees who were subjected to enhanced

interrogation techniques. they are not the same things. my detainee provided information and abuse. i know he did. he was subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques, which had nothing to do with obtaining the information. the isn't amount report concludes accurately what many of us knew and what the agency knew, that enhanced interrogation did not provide useful information. the information obtained from enhanced interrogation was formerly recalled inside the c.i.a. as unreliable. john's statement is more nuanced. he has many constituencies to please and protect. the c.i.a., which he doesn't want to see destroyed, and moral ruined and people that try to do their best and get it wrong, prosecuted. he doesn't want to acknowledge the criticisms or state the truce. he didn't say eits, provide

information, no. >> he said the cause and effect was unknowable. >> that's a crock. >> having watched the whole press catholic churonference ite he was saying information obtained helped to thwart attacks. some of the information you get from these eits is unreliable. the question is whether some was reliable. three bush c.i.a. directors... >> some of the nfls was reliable, but not that information -- information was reliable, but not that provided by the eits. and john's point of unknowable is a punt by the white house, and a punt by john to avoid the clear conclusion, which is the accurate one of the senate report, which is eits did not provide a little information. that's a fuge. >> what do you say to the bush

c.i.a. directors and clinton, james waulsey, who was on the show last night. that did work. how is there a difference of opinion. >> if only king knew. >> in a sense, i knew how the bureaucracy works. it coopts all directors. they have to rely on experts. and the experts said "look at this, here is what we have." he knows they are hardworking honourable men and women. they believe what they are told. this is an important point. the reports come - there would be a report generated by eits saying something or other would happen. action would be taken. that would be touted in other reports to policy makers - look, we have this. subsequently we see it was made out of hole cloth, nothing to it, plots were false.

erroneous. >> it's difficult to walk whack and say "whoops, all of this - we got it wrong." they bought into this. these debates were heated inside the agency, and it was clear to many of us that the information supposed information was spurious, wrong, and the cases claimed as triumphs were not real. >> a final question that brennan was asked today in a certain way, is what we are doing now with drones worse. we are killing suspected terrorists, and in the process have killed more civilians for the people interrogated with the eits. >> well, i get asked the drone question a lot. it started in significant numbers after i left. it did exist while i was there. in some cases - for some cases i support the drone programme. i think the claims of collateral damage - i accept that some will

have happened. they are probably less extensive... >> we are still killing terrorists. is that not worse than torture. you could make the argument that neither is appropriate. >> no, i don't think that killing an enemy is worse than torturing. there are rules of war that apply even to this bizarre supposed category of noncombatants who people are not representing the state. i think that has been codified over millennia, how one is supposed to treat prisoners of whatever sort, and what one may do which is - includes lethal acts as an act of war. i'm less troubled by using lethal force in certain instances than i am by torture. >> i think you and i agree this is an important national discussion to have. pleasure to have you with us. >> the book again is "the

integrator - an education." now for more stories from around the world. we begin in washington d.c. both parties spent thursday fighting internally before the house of representatives passed a spending bill to keep the government running. even though a deal was reached late tuesday amongst senate democrats and house republicans, a vote on the bill had to be delayed because there was not enough support to pass it. conservative republicans had rebelled against speaker boehner, because the bill does not take action to stop john boehner's executive action on immigration. the president and vice president lobbied congressional democrats to vote, the leader nancy pelosi sent them a letter saying they should use the chaos to negotiate the use of language rolling back financial reform. the late-night vote prevented a shutdown. >> next to the west bank,

thousands attending the furniture of ziad abu ein, a -- funeral of ziad abu ein, a senior palestinian minister. he died after a protest on wednesday. israeli and palestinian doctors are at odds over the cause of death. the israeli pathologist concluded that ziad abu ein died because of a bookage in the koranry artery. the palestinian said it was caused by a blow to the body california - the worst storm to hit the county, 250,000 left water power. thousands were evacuated from skyscrapers. in some areas wind produced sustained winds. a gust of 170 miles per hour was reported in the sierra mountains. flooding and trees disrupted traffic. some areas got 15 inches of rain and mountain regions could get

snow. it's good news for one of the worst droughts, but it's a fraction of the rain needed. coming up, why there's new outrage over the bernie madoff case. the woman who became one of his victims will join us. and a claim from deadly assault to binge drinking. and harmeli aregawi is in washington d.c. tonight helping with "the stream", but is tracking the top stories on the web. what is trending. >> it's been the worst week for uber. after several allegations of drivers sexually assaulting customers, cities and states are blowing the whistle. while you watch, join the conversation online or leave a comment on the facebook page.

bernie madoff's victims are expressing disgust over surprising leniency over some of his co-conspire ants. a lawyer for more than 30 of madoff's victims said it's outrageous: madoff is serving 150 years for the largest case of individual fraud in u.s. history, leading to tens of billions in losses. he was arrested 6 years ago. his former secretary looks back in the documentary "in god we trust". >> the phones were going crazy, and the fax machines, i remember

a woman called in sobbing. she didn't know how she was going to pay her bills and didn't know what to do. there's just so many people. and they all left feeling victimized and ashamed, especially older people. all they wanted to know is what should they do: so you tried to do what you could, and it pretty much was not much. >> the second and find part of "in god we trust" premiers here on al jazeera. eleanor joins us here. you have been through hell and back yourself. it began september 11th six years ago when fbi agents came into your office. what was it look on that day? not some were you a victim yourself, you invested with him, and you worked for him, you had to deal with all the victims who started calling you to say "what

is going on?" >> it was six years later, i feel what i felt then. it led up to that day. you know, he acted differently for weeks. that morning think weren't what they usually were. the routines were different. you couldn't put your finger on it. >> you couldn't imagine it was something like this. >> i thought when the fbi came in, that somebody in his family was kidnapped. it was the furthest thing from my mind. >> what do you say to people. you worked with him for 25 years. how could people not have known this was going on. >> that is a good question. people that ask you that question would be the people that did not work at the office. bernie had a way of segregating everything. i worked upstairs in the executive officer in the trading

floor where the legitimate side of the business was. the people convicted were working in the advisory side of the business. they were completely separate. >> on a separate floor. talking about the convictions, we have four out of five - four coconspirators, and another on monday. they have been given sentences shorter than what prosecutors asked for. and a woman that worked with him for a long time... >> she was there from the beginning. >> she said she didn't really know what was going on. >> that's not a defense. being sfupd is -- stupid is not a defence. >> is that enough. they had to create statements not only for their clients. >> that's right. >> for the f.c.c. and everyone else. >> and themselves. >> it was a massive invention that needed soldiers to do some work. >> if you were stupid you would

not be driving a bentley, you wouldn't have a mansion. it's a defense. just how i feel about the convictions is a thought they were going to get a lot more than they did. i testified one day at the trial. i worked with the fbi when bernie was arrested, and they did a fabulous job. they worked for the prosecution and got all their ducks in a row and said it would take years. taxpayers were paid millions, wept off for five months. and the jury convicted them. they were there for five months and they convicted them on every count. i'm confused about why they got light sentences. you worked with them closely. when we talked to a co-director last week of the documentary, and talked to him about who madoff was, was he a sociopath,

some of the stories you told about how he reacted in 9/11, ignoring it although it was clear some of his friends had to be kill. talking about what he said of one of his sons, making fun saying his son nearly soiled himself when he heard about what had gone on. was he a socio path? >> i believe it's complicated, and he had no conscience, and he was a sociopath. i had this discussion with his son a couple of years ago, his son andy who just passed away. this was his father. we were trying to figure out how to put it in our head and justify, you know, how do you feel. and he believeded his father was a sociopath. >> it destroyed the family, andy

recently died, mark committed suf. >> they were wonderful people. i knew them from college. it is sad. what do you think was going through madoffs mind after it happened. he pleaded guilty. >> i had conversations with people, and you wondered what his exit plan would be. i don't think he had one. do you think things would be going on if the session hadn't happened. >> absolutely. we had the f.c.c. in the office, they'd audit us. bernie was keep your friends close and enemies closer. bernie was involved with the regulatory firms, he was on the boards and open to helping out. >> that's something the documentary made clear, that the f cc was open, he was open to them, and maybe that's a reason me got away with this. >> they didn't do their job.

it's a government agency, they should have done their job. >> how devastating has this been for you. i know a lot of what you did to get over or through this was to help prosecutors. >> it was therapeutic. >> you made something of yourself. then this happened. >> thank you. >> i realised people are not who they seem to be. you have to accept them the way they are. with bernie, it took so long to get over, that he did this. me feelings stopped. i said to myself - you cared about a person who didn't exist. i moved on, i think about his children, the people i worked with, his victims. i don't think anything could happen to me in my life that could surprise or shock me. >> so many victims around the

country and around the world. they are not getting much of what they have invested. >> a good point to bring out is people look at white collar crime, and don't see it as a violent crime. people have committed suicide. and not just mark. you have other people, and the elderly who can't recoup, and the last years of their lives will be spent in misery. >> it's a fascinating story, the second and final part of "in god we trust" premieres on sunday on al jazeera america. time to see what is trending on the website. let's go to washington d.c. and check in with harmeli aregawi. >> uber has been making headlines on a daily basis - most is not good news. wednesday a second indian city banned the service after a driver in new delhi was accused

of raping a customer earlier this week. in london a woman said the company offered her 20 pounds after reporting her driver's sexual harassment. in hopes that: driver misconduct is not just an issue abroad. the company removed a driver in chicago after allegations he sexually assaulted a female rider. it has been banned in major cities and countries in some cases, including thailand, the netherlands, and spain. now u.s. cities and states are taking action against the san francisco based company. portland and nevada banned the service. other cities are investigating the company. california is suing uber because of the background checks. the difference is that the company uses information supplied electronically by its applicant drives, making it easier for drivers to use stolen or false i.d.s.

with these problems uber announced it raised $1.2 billion in financing, saying it's valued at more than $40 billion. given the allegations, would you use uber. tweet me. they have a lot of explaining to do. >> they do, but a lot of people rel on their service, and oftentimes, most of the times it works very well. good to have you with us. thanks straight ahead. the fight for america's airspace, benefits and risks of commercial drones. and rape accusations at the university of virginia leading to a debate on fraternities. later - can sleeping problems contribute to alzhiemer's. we explain in the data dive.

more drones will be flying in the skies now that the f.a.a. gave the okay to four more companies to use them as a part of their businesses. the f.a.a. is yet to come up

with broad recommendations for the entire industry and many are criticizing piecemeal approval of one company at a time. with dozens of near misses this year between drones and commercial aircraft. regulators are forced to battle that danger. joining us is lisa, council and coach at the law firm mckenna, young and aldrij. he served as an advisor, leading the works group, for those ug unmanned systems. it's a fascinating industry. according to the f.a.a., we are seeing more than one incident reported every day on every day. from june 1st to end of november. they took action to avoid the

drama. it came 20 feet away. why do we expand the use of drones when they are proving dangerous? >> absolutely. first of all, thank you for having me, to talk about the industry and what it will look like. like you mentioned safety is of paramount concern to regulators, to the american people, and it's of paramount concern to the industry. nobody wants to see a midair collision between a drone and an airplane. it's in the rules, on the books. now some use is allowed, but only if it doesn't endanger the air space and the public. there are rules out there, the f.a.a. will enforce. but it's important that we educate people about what the rules are, and how they should use the drones. >> the incidents show that there

are greater hazards than previously believed. the rules is they have to be below 400 feet and five miles from airports. people are violating the rules. >> absolutely. we need to make sure that people know the rules exist. the f.a.a. issued new guidance on enforcement action against people who are violating that. i think it's important that we do so. it's important that the stupped is not the enemy of the good. there's so many benefits and important rolls that drones can play in the society. that's a good point. i want to get to the benefits in a minute. it's a good way of putting it. the stupid are out there. do we need to have something more than rules and education. do we need to have g.p.s. systems in drones, that don't allow private use, unmanned aircraft to fly higher than what

the is allowed near aircrafts. >> there's technologies that could down a drone that comes close to an airport. there's some that would prevent a drone from getting close to me or you or anyone walking around. in that technology, it is out there, and something that we should require that type of technology. right now, it's a critical time for policy makers and innovators to come together to see how to work on the issues. >> the f.a.a. approved four more companies, approved a number of other companies earlier. the f.a.a. is not scheduled to come up with regulations until next year. some say not until october 16th. how big a problem is that? >> it's an issue. first of all, there are so many

benefits to drones. they can be used for precision agriculture. they can be used to photographers. amazon wants to use them. there are industrial uses and power line inspection, and so many different uses that are out there where they'll be able to keep workers and the public safe and in an efficient way. it's important that the government movement quickly, the f.a.a., if anything, started a bit too late. they are getting a lot of flak for moving methodically. it is a complex problem, integrating the air space. every day, you know, we are talking as soon as the skies are open to drones in our air space for commercial players, we'll see in the next - before - in 2025, we'll see 100,000 new jobs. >> you see benefits that big and quick.

are you concerned that because we are not moving forward with the kinds of regulations we need, and letting the industry grow, is the u.s. at risk of losing whatever leadership we have in the industry to other countries that are, you know, that have moved forward on it. >> absolutely. that is something i have talked a lot to entrepreneurs as i have been out in california. that's something we hear from a lot of innovators. that they'll move operations abroad. there's a lot of countries who figure it out, who have rules in place. canada, for example, has come out with new regulations. australia, new zealand, a lot of countries that since the '80s, now, in japan, 85% of crop dusting if youingured it out. it's something that we need to focus on as a country. >> it's a fascinating industry,

bringing up all sorts of issues. good of you to join us to talk about it. >> great, love it. thank you. >> turning to fraternities under fire. hit with sanctions at colleges for a long list of incidents this year, including a suspected haze aring-related death at the university of west virginiaia, not nah away at the university of virginia, fraternities are under suspicion despite "rolling stone" magazine acknowledging missteps about a sexual assault attack on campus. the image of fraternity life has long looked like animal house, a four year party heavy on hazing and deboyry. the incidents let to a growing chorus of a crack down. we are joined by someone who believes frat earntsies can be a -- fraternities can be a

problem. and peter jacobs, an education reporter at business insider, who wrote a piece entitled "i joined a fraternity, it was one of the best decisions i made." good to have you with us. why was it one of the best decisions you ever made? >> i was at a big school, and my fraternity gave me a community, helping me meet my friend and keeping me centered. instead of getting lost the a school which is easy. are you not alarmed as you look at what has been happening. and there's serious numbers. bloomberg.com says 75 people died in fraternity-related incidents since 2005, many involving alcohol abuse and hazing. >> hazing is a major issue, it's something that needs to be traffed immediately. -- addressed immediately. there are benefits, they have higher g.p.a.s, graduation

ratement they have more of a connection to their alma marreda and that is something that shouldn't be overlooked. >> we are seeing these incidents. you have spoken out against fraternities, are our fraternities the issue, is it the traditional alcohol-infused culture on campuses. >> i think the issue is an epidemic of male violence. it's all over the world. i'm hesitant to paint frat earnties with a broad brush. there are some benefits and many feel they had great experiences in their fraternities. haizing is a problem but compared to injuries from an assault, hazing is small, compared to sexual assaults, and brawls and falling out of windows and off of deck injuries. fraternity members are three times as likely to commit sexual

assault as a standard male student. that should raise red flags. >> it was a very, very big red flag. how do you respond to it. that study was out there. frettenty me are likely to commit sexual assault. >> i think the fraternity system is a way to address that. you put education into pledging, making sure anyone that goes into the houses nose about consent rules. >> why hasn't it happened. it's a question for you, it's not as if violence on the part of men is new. why hasn't anything been down? >> i think there is something particular to the culture of not every fraternity in america, but to many, which is this culture of young people that want to fit in, and are more willing, i think, undercertain circumstances to compromise their own moral compass and ethics to be accepted by a

group, and that's why you join in the first place. these studies show that members tend to adhere strongly to gender roles and an aggressive sexuality. and makes the small number who are thing that the behaviour is okay. >> why hasn't anything been done to make a difference. we have known about the hazing problems. the sexual assault epidemic as described is something we are aware of over the past couple of years. why haven't the frat earnties moved on this? >> fraternities are engrained into the campus culture, that there's not much we can do. they provide housing for students, money for the schools. there's not much that a fraternity can do that would annoy a school enough to get rid

of them. that's an issue themselves. >> 3,000 real estate is owned by fraternities, 750,000 college students are members of the fraternities. you are not advocating that we ban them. >> i think banning frat earnties sounds like an easy solution. it's a complex problem, violence against women and violence on college campuses. to say if we ban frats is simplistic. schools should look at the relationships with frat earnties, how much they save. you mentioned a $3 billion which is what the schools save. providing and maintaining housing. fraternity members tend to be generous to academic institutions after they leave. they are a cash cow for universities. the schools look the other way. that should trouble all of us. >> much of that atrocious

behaviour is claimed on alcohol and drugs at parties. a lot of colleges banned alcohol on the campuses. when you look at the numbers, it doesn't look like it made a difference. binge drinking barely declined. what is the solution. >> i think one solution is... >> i should say the numbers are dramatic when it comes to the fact that the mainliority of victims of rape are either intoxicated or have been drinking. >> so are most of the perpetrators. when you look at the stats phone sexual violence on campus, you see (a), it's a small number of people committing a large number of acts. most campus rapists are serial rapists, and a lot of men are using alcohol essentially as a cover. so, you know, there's a victim blaming mentality that says if young women didn't drink or go to parties, they wouldn't be raped. someone will be at the that party. if you don't go or drink, it

won't be you, it may be the girl down the hall or the cousin or the sister. what we have to do is address the route cause of sexual violence, which is male entitlement to women bodies, a view of women as sexually available, and a perception that men have, not all, but many, that sex is something that you get and achieve and you check off. it treats women as subhuman and givers of sexuality. that's where we need to combat it. >> shouldn't frat earnties have a role in doing that? >> 100%. >> most of the men you see doing sexual assaults don't realise it's sexual assault. i think once you provide education and explain what they are doing is wrong, the numbers change. i think that's one. better remedies towards fixing this. >> let's hope something is done. certainly the numbers are alarming. a lot of people suffering as a

result. pleasure to have you both was. coming up, does your skin have a sense of smell. first, why struggles with a good night's sleep could have more serious consequences than we ever knew. our data dive is next. revealing... untold stories of the valor... >> they opened fire on the english officers... >> sacrifice... >> i order you to die... >> and ultimate betrayal... drawing lines in the sand that would shape the middle east and frame the conflict today >> world war one: through arab eyes continues episode three: the new middle east on al jazeera america

today's data dive goes deep into sleep. the problem is too many are not

going deeply enough. a new study links sleep disturbances to brain changes that could lead to demeanture, it looked at 167 me, and found those that didn't get enough deep sleep because of breathing problems from sleep apnoea or emphysema were likely to suffer harmful brain changes. they led to lower blood oxygen levels and more microinfashion, microscopic strobes. me with lower levels were 4 times as likely to have brain adnormalcies. a separate teme poral study in mice showed brain changes. and sleep disturbances in older men increased alzhiemer's by 50%. >> coming up, can your body smell with organs that are not your knows. surprising research, next hi, i'm john seigenthaler,

coming up after "consider this" - down to the wire - congress scrambles to get the votes before the government runs out of money. firing back - the director of the c.i.a. - what he had to say about the senate report on torture. blame game. a religious college apologising for the way it treated victims of sexual assault. >> and inside the computer hacking group anonymous. all that and more coming up after "consider this".

did you know your senses of smell and taste go beyond your nose and tongue. we have scent and taste receptors throughout our bodies from our skin, muscles, internal organs and the brain. why scientist are not sure what the receptors are for, it raises questions about how our bodies work. i had a chance to speak with a professor of firstology, who discovered odour receptors in the kidney while studying a common form of kidney disease. you made this kidney discovery by accident. you thought it was a mistake. >> that's right. we were looking at the genes

that are different in certain kidney cells, and we kept getting knows censors that helped you smell come up, initially we thought it was a mistake. the more we looked into it, the more we realised we stumbled on something interesting. when you figured it out. what did you find the odour receptors did in the kidneys? >> there's multiple receptors, for the one where we had the most information, we found this receptor is found in a cell type in the kidney that is important for the regulation of blood pressure, and the mice that are missing had lower blood pressure. we feel that is important, and are working hard to understand the rules of the other receptors in the kidney as well. >> the discovery goes why not the kidneys, receptors in brains and bladder muscle, and the same

in the kidney have been found in the skin and more than a dozen others have been found there. why do you think we have these sensors throughout the body? >> the way we think about it is if we think of them as smell receptors, it's really weird. the way that we smell is by detecting chemicals. if we think. senn scores as chemicals, you can imagine a lot of reasons why different organ techniques need chemicals. if you think of it as a chemical, it makes a lot of sense. >> how does that relate to the sense of taste and smell? >> they are active. they sent messages to the brain, evoking thoughts and feelings. we are aware of sydney and skin perceiving chemical, or smelling something. >> right.

yes. that's true. we are very aware of our sense of smell and taste. there's neurons in our tongue and nose going to our brain, telling our brain when we tasted or smelt something. we don't think that is how these work. downstream of the mechanism, it's differently. it's working like a receptors, were it not aware of when the receptors bind. but the first step in the cascade. binding to the sensor itself is the same in the nodes and other places. >> i read, interestingly, that development of our taste receptors may have been as protection against poisons. could these chemical detectors be protectors of the organs, and what are the implications. could they be used to treat diseases and other problems. there has been some testing that

shows muscles might respond to a certain tense. >> that's right. >> so the bitter taste receptors are are way we can sense compounds. and it turns out that those bitter taste receptors in your lung may help to clear substances from the lungs. that's along the same lines you were talking about. it makes a lot of sense that you might be able to use these to detect a different substance. we don't necessarily know how that will be used in medicine. the hope is if we can better understand how the receptors work, any time we can better understand how someone who is healthy, how it goes wrong than someone sick. >> it will be fascinating to see if drugs can be developed to help people based on the receptors. that's all for now. the conversation conditions on the website

aljazeera.com/considerthis. we are on facebook and twitter @ajconsiderthis, and tweet me @amora @amoratv. see you next time. this is al jazeera america. i'm john seigenthaler. 11th hour - this is a bill we should vote for. >> the partisan politics, and the push to avoid a government shutdown blame game - sexual assaults on college campuses. the investigation that says a school shamed the victims for decades. >> special k - the party drug used to treat depression. is it safe. and you are looking a