>> announcer: this is al jazeera. ♪ >> welcome to the news hour coming to you live from doha. i'm david foster. police are dealing with two hostage situations. they surrounded the men suspected of killing 12 people at the charlie hebdo magazine. and in paris a gunman has taken hostages at a kosher supermarket. shots have been fired. in other news a shock result in sri lanka's election. the president has conceded

defeat and this is the country's new leader. ♪ right now french authorities are handling two major incidents involving hostages. police have surrounded the brothers that they suspect of attacking the charlie hebdo magazine in paris where they are aledged to have killed 12 people. they are believe to be in a print shop close to the country's biggest international airport. now authorities are dealing with a shooting at a kosher supermarket in porte de vincennes in paris east of the french capitol. we go first to our correspondent there who is rory challands who can bring us up to date. what do you know rory. >> reporter: well it's about 1:30 local time paris time the

police are dealing with a second siege essentially in an eastern suberb of paris, porte de vincennes. a kosher supermarket was stormed by two people with guns. the names and pictures of those people have been released a man and a woman. we know that they have taken hostages. we don't know how many but the number of five has been thrown about. there were fears that there were fatalities. but that has been denied by the interior ministry. they say as far as they know there have been no fatalities so far. >> rory the sound not very good at the moment.

we'll see if we can rectify that. rory challands and the photographs you were looking at on the scene there, the man on the left it is thought the same man that police believe was responsible for the shooting in paris on thursday of two police officers, one of whom a woman died. now let's go to dammartin, where a siege, if you want to call it that, is now in its sixth hour. it's a town about 40 kilometers northeast of paris. and police say they have started negotiations with the two men that are suspected of the charlie hebdo shootings, they are sharif and said kouachi. they have taken a hostage. barnaby phillips have been covering that for us. over the course of the last 48 hours, there has been speculation, intensive media

coverage. so let's go with the facts, what we know for sure. what is happening as far as you know in dammartin? >> reporter: a warehouse is under siege. it belongs to a printing company. and there are two suspects inside and we believe they have a hostage, and we believe that those -- those suspects are said and sharif kouachi. that has not been officially confirmed, but all of the evidence points in that direction, david. we're not far away from where the two suspects were sighted yesterday when they attempted to rob a petrol station. everything has happened in the northeast part of the area. so we have stayed in one area. what we understand happened was these two suspects tried to rob a car this morning, and they drove it down the motorway

perhaps they were trying to drive it towards the airport, perhaps they were trying to drive it back towards paris. but there was a chase with a police car, and the suspects turned off in the dammartin town. there was a shootout at some point. there were no casualties in that shootout, but it does appear that the suspects were able to take a hostage, and they are now in that warehouse, where they have been for several hours. my colleague, simon mcgregor-wood has this roundup of the latest events. >> reporter: cherif and said kouachi were cornered in a printing company on the outskirts of the small town of dammartin. shots had been fired earlier as the two brothers stole a car in the early hours of the morning. the area was flooded with hundreds of armed security forces and ambulances as the search for the suspects in the

charlie hebdo shooting appeared to be coming to a dramatic conclusion. at least three helicopters maintained a permanent aerial presence above the site. the residences were told to stay in their homes and workplaces. nearby schools were put on lockdown. two airports were also shut down as a precaution. and french police have now established communication with the two brothers. they have spoken of the need to neutralize the two suspects. it's not clear what room there might be for a negotiated end to this standoff. >> barnaby, let's take a look of the photograph we have found of the premise, the print shop where it is thought that this is all unfolding. you can't see clearly there the security forces because this

was taken from google map sometime ago. but that is the print shop. simon mentioned the proximity to the airport. two runways he said shut down the latest on that and any disruption it is causing, and perhaps the thought about how authorities might be handling the fact that this is unfolding so close to some major air traffic routes. >> reporter: well i think the french authorities are trying to walk a difficult line david. they want normal life to carry on. they want people to keep calm. but of course they want to catch the killers, and they want civilians to be as safe as possible. we're not far away from the airport. we can hear planes coming and going all the time. anyone who knows paris knows where it sits on the northeast side of the city. the disruption has been minimal, ak -- according to authorities.

they have closed two runways, and i am suspecting that is because of the use of police helicopters in the area. perhaps they wanted to make sure the police could move around unimpeded, but they are saying disruption to the airport has been avoided, and that flights are coming in and out of that important airport as -- as normal if you like. >> the latest on the school children that have been mentioned in various news reports, who had to be told to stay inside their school building. what has happened to them now? >> reporter: well i -- i -- i -- we don't have information for certain, david that they have been evacuated, but it does seem that they are safe and that there's no reason to fear otherwise, if you would

like. we saw 12 buses drive past here i think about three hours ago now. and they went into dammartin. and at the same time we heard from an official in the town that in the conversations between the suspects and the police, the suspects had agreed that school children should be, you know able to leave unimpeded. david i have lost sound connection so i'm just going to carry on talking, but i won't be able to hear your question at the end, but returning to the school children there was no suggestion that the suspects were going to harm them in any way, or in indeed that they were able to harm them that they were in a position to harm them. we did hear of some tweets from children in the secondary school saying they were going to be evacuated, and the figro, a french newspaper was reporting at the primary school was under guard by police and carpet had

been put up in the windows to prevent any dangerous material from hurting any of the children inside. i don't have a sound connection so i think we may have to leave it from dammartin at this time. >> barnaby thank you very much indeed. i just want to recap on the two events unfolding at the moment. barnaby phillips was in dammartin north of paris. it is thought that the two brothers that the police have suspected of being involved in the charlie hebdo killing on wednesday, it is thought that they are in a print shop a paper factory there, and they may have a hostage with them there. and the school children who were pretty close by it is speculated have been able to get out. the other event we are covering which may or may not be related, but police say there could be a connection between the two

brothers and this event that is taking place in porte de vincennes. there a jewish supermarket sees at least one gunman go in and fire a number of shots. we are told that there are no fatalities, but there have been injuries. and the person they suspect of being involved in this not only knows the two brothers but is also believed to be the person -- this is by the security forces not prove en but believed by the security forces the man on the left to be responsible for the shooting of two police officers on thursday in paris, one of whom a woman police officer died. that is as clear as i can put a very confusing security picture at the moment. let's go to jacky rowland live in paris, this is not just about security but it is also about

politics, the status of the president and the prime minister reassuring the public. and you can bring us up to date on what the president and the prime minister has been doing. >> reporter: yes, indeed really since the first attack on wednesday, and the president has been holding almost back-to-back crisis meetings with his security cabinet, involving senior ministers, heads of intelligence and security agencies and also even the former president. it's very important for government ministers to be seen as leading from the front and doing everything possible to guarantee people's safety. now as soon as that situation that barnaby was describing started to unfold in dammartin, the president went to the interior ministry to be at the nerve center of that operation,

and while he was there, he spoke to television cameras about what he cease as the threats that his country is facing. >> translator: international solidarity has been expressed very strongly. there have been aggressions, attempts in friendly countries over the last few years, and when it is france our friends may also feel concerned. there will be a meeting of interior ministers and defense ministers. the prime minister is working in close coordination with other countries with regard to security information and intelligence, and that's very important. >> and the french prime minister as well addressing reporters. he said it was very important for french society as a whole to remaniactive and involved. >> translator: there have been incredible reactions, very healthy reaction on the part of

society since wednesday, and let us not be naive. the -- it's -- through the web there have been some extraordinary reaction by citizens even if there are unions and political parties, it is a reaction by the citizens. we must gather around values. values of tolerance and freedom. because it's freedom and tolerance that were affected that they wanted to kill them. we must go beyond the gathering, the demonstrations on sunday. >> reporter: and the leader of the far right national front has been having her say as well. she says she wants to see a debate on what she is describing as islamic fundamentalism in france. >> translator: the french president assured me that a profound debate on the rise of

islamic fundamentalism in our country will take place, and that all political parties will be listened to regarding the necessary steps that need to be taken to ensure the security of the country and our people. the president security will be guaranteed and i thank him for that. but i will not go to demonstrations where obviously the organizers don't want to see us. i'm educated. i don't want to go where they don't want me. >> jacky will be back with you later in this news hour. jacky rowland thank you very much. live for us in paris. it is worth mentioning at this point that in the area of porte de vincennes where the second siege if you would like to call it that is unfolding. two schools there have been locked down. we don't know whether the people got out. it seems to be locked down and

they haven't done so far. let me run through the events taking place in france at the moment in case you are just joining us. french security forces have closed in on the two suspects believed to have attacked the charlie hebdo office on wednesday. these are the pictures from dammartin. that's pretty close to the airport north of the french capitol. as we understand it the two men who are believed to be brothers are holding at least one person hostage in what is said to be a print factory in an industrial part of a pretty small french town there, about 30 kilometers north of paris. come south, go east back to paris, porte de vincennes in the east of the capitol, an armed man has taken several hostages inside of a jewish kosher

supermarket. he is believed to be the same man who fatally shot a policewoman on thursday. french authorities report he has a number of weapons with him. the suspects of the charlie hebdo shooting have holed up in a warehouse and they are in contact with police negotiators. the events leading up to these sieges the attack on charlie hebdo on tuesday. they were sited just outside paris on thursday. the men reportedly stole petrol and food. almost 24 hours later on friday reports came in of a gun fight

with police north of paris near dammartin where it is all happening now. police chasing a vehicle which they believe the brothers hijacked from a woman. hostage taken by the gunmen kicking off a siege which is now still unfolding at an industrial park. and contact has been made with the suspects who reportedly say they wish to die as martyrs. police continuing to negotiate with them while the area is locked down. those are the facts as we know them. let's take a look at the french special security forces that are on the scene. they are known as the bri, they have more than a hundred officers called upon during crises and trained in dealing with dangerous events. let us bring in now somebody who is well aware of what happens in dangerous confrontational

situations such as this robin special officer for the british army. -- robin in this situation how much of a difference does it make that there have been shots fired. how much of a difference does that make to those people such as yourself in deciding what to do next? >> yeah it makes a big difference because essentially these people have already committed murder. they have already taken the step over that boundary so there's not a great deal for them to lose if they kill somebody else. so that raises the level of threat dramatically. the negotiateors will still be focusing on calming them down and bring them out with their hands up however, they have said they are willing to commit

suicide and die for their cause, and that is very serious. >> what sort of a trigger will they will looking at to decide enough is enough? >> an escalation of violence is the only trigger that is going to initiate an assault. if they believe that they are about to kill people or they start killing people then that will be the trigger to initiate an assault. because they have no choice. if they do nothing, the people will die, if they do something, at least they have the chance of it resulting in a positive situation. >> we are looking at the helicopter and some of the weaponry the french forces have. take us through how sophisticated it is. >> the french security forces are incredibly well funded. they have high velocity weapons, sniper weapons, military and civilian helicopters and police

helicopters available to them to. it's clear that the president is throwing everything that they have at this situation, and so they -- they have everything they need. they don't need anything from elsewhere, except intelligence. if they -- now that they have secured the perimeter, now that they have made sure that the general public is safe they can sit back and wait until such times as something happens to force them to take a more radical step. >> robin, '98 you were involved in the iranian hostage siege in london. i remember covering the trial of the only gunmen who survived that. and it was menninged that you and your fellows knew pretty much everything that was going on in that situation. would the french policemen 35 years on be aware of everything that is happening inside these

two buildings the one at dammartin, and the one also at porte de vincennes. >> yes, the more time that they have on the ground and the more time that they can talk to people then they can develop the situation so that their surveillance techniques can be used. that takes time. that takes people to getting close to start to put listening devices in. and that's all information gathering. the more information you get, the more likely they are if they have to mount an assault, to have a successful one. >> bearing in mind there are two situations, how stretched do you think the forces would be now that they have had to say there is not only the event happening in dammartin, but also the one in porte de vincennes. >> yeah they have had to divide their force, but the number of hostages are not high.

so i would think they can cope very comfortably with the two situations and possibly even a third. >> robin thank you very much indeed. and we'll be back with you, robin. i know you are staying with us through the course of the next couple of hours. i was talking about porte de vincennes in the east of the french capitol where we understand that at least one gunmen has taken over a jewish supermarket. we were talking to rory challands a little while ago. i understand we can now see you. take us through what you understand to have happening in that part of the east of paris. >> reporter: well for the last two hours or so this has been a fairly quiet situation. i'm standing on the periphery of the police coordinate. they have thrown a wide barrier around the kosher supermarket,

where we think five or six people are being held hostage. that situation started about three hours ago. about 1:30 in the afternoon, local time. the police have released two names and pictures of the two people they suspect being involved in this incident. it's a man and a woman. now some of the reports that are coming out, not concretely confirmed yet is that one of these people is wanted in connection with the shooting yesterday in which a police woman lost her life. but this has been tense, but quiet now for the last two or three hours or so. >> do you know anything about the two suspects in particular? we understand may be partners boyfriend, girlfriend and the man on the left believed perhaps to have been involved in the

shooting of the police officers one fatally. >> reporter: there has been some speculation that these are a boyfriend and girlfriend partners of some sort. but information in this whole scenario is sketchy, and there are things that have been said that have then been contradicted. we had heard earlier on that there were two fatalities that was then contradicted by the interior ministry. so there's a lot of information that is floating around here and very little is actually concrete. >> so the facts we know at least one gunman has -- at least one, maybe a number of host -- hostages pretty close to where you are. >> reporter: that's right. it was a situation that started about three hours ago.

it's the second major incident that has taken place -- second major siege situation. that the police are having to deal with in paris another the moment. just three police ambulances are just racing past at the moment. again, we don't know if there are injuries or fatalities at the moment. the interior ministry saying no fatalityies that they were aware of. but this is a blackout -- information blackout essentially. beyond that cordon there is a very dangerous situation going on. >> reporter: rory thank. rory is one of our team that flies in and out regularly from france. but jacky rowland has been based in france for us for a number of years. jacky before we go on to marine

le pen and the french national front, what have you seen in terms of how the people are behaving? >> reporter: certainly a lot more visible security. it started really straight after those shootings at charlie hebdo, after spending several hours in the street near the offices of that newspaper, coming back to the offices where al jazeera is based in paris, seeing armed police at the main door of the -- of the tower that i'm sitting in checking quite rigorously the id to check whether people trying to get in were bonafied or not. also we see armed riot police coming any time there are big rallies. the square has been very much a focus for gatherings of people who wish to show their support for the people who were killed so pay tribute to those

journalists and cartoonists who were shot at charlie hebdo, and on those occasions you see armed police there, because clearly these kind of gatherings could be a target. and than the paris underground system, at major intersections you see armed police even on station platforms, you see them and also a lot more visibly just the employees of the underground themselves eyes and ears on the platforms and intersections. another thing we have noticed is traffic has been heavier. people are afraid. the underground has been infamous -- about 20 years ago there was an attack against the metro system and we remember the attack against the underground and against buses in london so people have been

choosing to travel by car and taxi which has lead to a lot more congestion on the road. so the changes in terms of just every day life that i have been noticing over the last 48 hours. >> and jacky there are always in this situation, people who like to take advantage of what is happening to their own political ends or whatever. and i'm not suggesting that marine le pen and the french national front would do so but they always seem to come out of the woodwork at times like this suggesting that there needs to be a great deal of change to french society. the french national front is a relatively important force in french politics. >> reporter: yes, it's certainly true to characterize politics as being, you know, to the far right of the political spectrum but that's not to say that they are really a kind of fringe

party, because people do vote for them. notably in european elections and in local elections. it's almost like people's, quote unquote, dirty little secret, that when opinion polls are taken or when you ask people just chatting to people to the run up to the elections very few people will say they are voting for the national front, but then when you see the results you think where were all of those people when we were doing interviews on the streets? but they do attract support. the kind of remarks that marine le pen has been making i have always heard them being made by ordinary people on the streets. including people who come to these rallies. the night before last we are interviewing a young woman who was holding up on a cardboard panel she had written out in

french a berth from the quran, that advocates violence. and she said it is important that the french public as a whole don't in some way equate extremism with religion. so the islamic religion and extreme religion are extremes. and this man appeared and started arguing with him, saying they are killing in the name of religion. and this was a live and passionate debate that is taking place amongst ordinary people. and on that backdrop you have the president, and former president trying to deliver another message saying the objective of people who carry out attacks like this is to try to sharpen the divisions in society, to try to drive a wedge between different communities in

society, let's not play into the trap. that's why the president invited the former president to come and sit inside of a meeting to really harness all of the expertise, all of the knowledge, all of the resources available to him to try to face up to this challenge, and so really we're seeing very much a message from the main stream political parties, this is a time for everyone in france to focus on the things that unite us rather than on where we differ and where there things that differ these are thanks can be discussed in a peaceful way. >> jacky thank you very much indeed. jacky rowland live this paris. we're roughly halfway through our news hour and we're going to bring you up to date on the situation happening in and around paris. first of all the siege in

in -- dammartin, it is very close to the biggest international airport there. after an attack on wednesday which left 12 people dead at the charlie hebdo office in paris, two gunmen were at large for almost 24 hours, until they were spotted just outside of paris on thursday. the owner of a petro station calling the police claiming to have been robbed by the two suspects believed to be brothers at about 930 gmt. 24 hours later, a gun fight north of paris near dammartin. it all ended up in an industrial town. hostage taken, and leading to the siege which is now in progress at an industrial park.

contact we have been told has been made with the two suspects. who are reported to have said they wish to die as martyrs. this is porte de vincennes which is in the east of paris. i mentioned two situations involving hostages and there may be a relationship or relation between the two, because at a kosher supermarket in the porte de vincennes area we have been told there is a gunman holding hostages that there may have been shots fired, and this gunmen may be known to the two brothers and this may also be the man that police want to question over the shooting of two police officers on thursday. that is as clear as i can make it. let's go to rory challands who is in porte de vincennes in the

east of paris. i know you have been kept out of the area. are you getting much information from the authorities? or are you have doing pick it up as you go along? >> reporter: well there is a development, the first actual serious development we have had in the last couple of hours or so. the paris police are saying that the gunmen who is holed up inside the kosher supermarket here is saying that he will execute the hostages that he has taken if police storm the kouachi brothers the two suspects in the charlie hebdo shooting to the north of paris. if police move against them the gunman here says he will start shooting hostages he has taken in this kosher supermarket. in that suggests first of all that there is some kind of dialogue going on between the

suspects here and the police. it also suggests that there is some sort of connection between this incident and the charlie hebdo incident. it may not be much of a connection, it may only be the type of connection that this gunman wants to be linked wants to do something that is sort of in according with the charlie hebdo shootings, but it does suggest that this is a totality -- a whole that the police are dealing with here or at least they will start to deal with it in that way. >> so at this moment there is no official connection between the two. but what we do know is that a couple of schools in that area have been locked down with pupils inside or just officials inside? have some of the children been able to get out at all? >> reporter: well this area is still -- i mean it's quiet. and there is a -- the cordon

that i'm standing by it is calm. you get an eerie atmosphere in these kinds of situations. the streets are dead but there is activity. people are hanging around just waiting for something to happen. for the last two hours or so it has been quiet, just this eerie calm while a very tense situation happens just a few hundred meters down the road behind me. >> rory the point you made at the top of the segment was that you have got official word. just give us that one more time so we are absolutely clear what we're hearing. >> reporter: so the paris police have said that they have heard from the gunmen in the kosher

supermarket here in porte de vincennes that he will start killing hostages if police move against the two suspects they believe are involved in the charlie hebdo shooting just yesterday, and they -- that -- it's basically -- the first thing that seems to suggest there is some kind of -- some kind of connection. it may be a very minimal connection, but some kind of connection between these two incidents. >> that's good. rory challands live in the east of paris. okay. i was going to go to london to talk to a former sms man there, but we have lost that connection. i can tell you more details have been emerging of the kouachi brothers. the two men accused of killing those 12 people on wednesday. they are now thought to be

inside the print factory in dammartin. they have at least one hostage. >> reporter: these are two of the faces we have seen so much of over the last two days sharif kouachi, and said kouachi. both french nationals born to algearian parents. let's start with sharif he is the youngest. 32 years old. this was him ten years ago. an aspiring rapper with a criminal record for selling drugs. he met a man who he claimed taught him about suicide bombers and martyrdom. sharif kouachi ended up on trial after missing a flight to the middle east. he was described in court as a reluctant holy warrior,

nevertheless he was jailed for three years. he served half of that sentence and was arrested again in 2010. police subsequently learned he had been browsing jihadist websites. but the case was dropped due to a lack of evidence. and it -- okay. let's take a look at this brother, this is said kouachi. he is the oldest at 34 years old. he left his identity card in the getaway vehicle. what is interesting here is he is being formally named by police as the main attacker in the murders. but in the past he was always on the periphery of his younger brother's illegal actives. other than that very little is known about him. although it is believed that he spent time in yemen in 2011 and there he met the al-qaeda

preacher. clearly the authorities knew who these two men were. sharif in particular had the history with the police and the u.s. knew about them two, they were on not one, but two highly classified security databases, one of which was a specific no fly list. in france the authorities had them under direct surveillance. the question now is -- why was charlie hebdo so exposed when it had been under threat? and secondly why were two men known to be radicaled followed and unfollowed when there was clearly a danger? the answers may not be forthcoming immediately. but they are sure to be uncomfortable. that is phil lavelle explaining the background of sharif and said kouachi who are in this french town north of paris pretty close to the

airport. that is an industrial area there, you see, and if we take you to the still we have of the print shop this is where the siege, we understand is taking place. the two brothers having app app -- apparently taken a hostage surrounded by police. this is one of the photos that comes from google earth, and we thank them for that. this was taken in peaceful and happier times. let's go to barnaby phillips. barnaby it is a winter's evening. these things often end under darkness. are you hearing anything at all from the authorities? >> no we're not. we -- we haven't really heard anything very substantial for three or four hours. but you are right. i'm facing west so i can see

the sun very very low in the sky. and it is going to enter darkness i would say within half an hour or so. we -- we did hear from a french interior ministry official earlier in the day, and he said these negotiations could take hours. they could take days. we'll just have to see. but i was listening to what rory was telling us from eastern paris earlier, and if the postage taker in the supermarket there is saying that he is prepared to kill hostages if the police move in on the suspects here who we believe are the kouachi brothers well that's -- that's something else for the police to have to think about here in what is already an incredibly complicated situation, because we believe that the suspects here already hold a hostage of their own. so that's another factor and it's another reason for the

police potentially not to take any drastic or radical action. to weigh out all of their possible moves forward, extremely carefully, and of course to bare in mind the safety of hostages at all times. >> and with that in mind barnaby, they tried to get as many children out of a local school as possible am i right? >> reporter: yes, that's right. that was also about four hours ago. we saw 12 empty buses go up the hill into the middle of dammartin. and we understand the plan was to take out 1,000 children. i haven't seen those buses come back this way. so it may be that they left town another way. it may be that authorities decided the situation was sufficiently secure and the

suspects are really pinned down in that warehouse you are referring to. and perhaps in the end an evacuation has not been necessary. i don't know. but we have seen more traffic coming in and out of dammartin in the last half hour or so which suggests -- i wouldn't call it normalcy but i would say more activity than there has been in the town during the day. >> barnaby i know we will be back with you as soon as we anything to report. the agency cameras are providing us live pictures from the town just north of paris where that siege is taking place. there you see at least one member of security services on the roof of the industrial building. what i'm going to try to do now is go over the events that have lead to this. this is off of the top of my

head so excuse me if i'm not flutely flew enth. going back to wednesday, gunmen attack the offices of charlie hebdo. 12 people killed there. the gunmen get away. they are then seen north of paris there was a robbery at a petrol station, and now they are in this building with at least one hostage. and this that we're looking at 30 kilometers north of paris near the airport, but go south and east to porte de vincennes, a suburb of paris, not a prosperous neighborhood but this may be linked because inside a jewish supermarket there right now, at least one gunman is holding a number of hostages and shots have been

fired. now the suggestion is that the man in that supermarket, and the two brothers may well know each other. in what form we're not certain, but it is also suggested that the gunman there in porte de vincennes is the man suspected of having shot two police officers in paris about 24 hours after the -- this is where i may be getting it wrong -- let's just sayyaf the charlie hebdo shooting shooting two police officers in paris, one of them fatally. so there may be a connection. and within the last half hour or so our correspondent has heard from authorities pretty close to the scene, that the gunmen in porte de vincennes has said if anybody moves in on the two brothers in the print shop he will begin to shoot those people that he is holding hostage in that suberb. so a link appears to exist.

authorities have not denied the link, and they have been putting out quotes from unnamed sources to suggest it is a real possibility. let's go once again to robin, former air service s -- sas officer for the britishish army. you said if somebody begins shooting that may well be the reason to go in. but if one person is saying should they go in to the other location, i will begin shooting they must be treating them as though they are linked i would think. >> yes, i agree. it has got to be a concern. if anybody on the inside of these buildings has a mobile

telephone, an iphone then they are going to be able to see everything that is coming out in the world's media at the moment which is a concern. if -- however, as i said if the trigger is -- arising the level of violence and the hostage takers start to kill somebody then they don't give the security forces any option. but it is a possibility they will have to consider if they go in on one, they will have to go in on the other as well at exactly the same time. >> how easy is it to jam signals on mobile phones? is it possible to get rid of everything? >> yeah i don't think it is possible to cut out the signals to mobile telephones but the security forces may have devices that can do that in a local environment. it's certainly possible where

signals initiate bombs, so i don't see why it wouldn't be possible. but do they have that technology available. the scenes we're seeing now are of people on the roof and they will be putting in security devices, and trying to locate where the suspects and the hostages are. >> robin we don't know what equipment they have with them. there have been suggestions in addition to the automatic weapons, that they may well have armor-piercing weapons. will the authorities, those people we see there, and those with whom they are lee acing, will they know if they have things like night-vision

goggles? or are we pretty sure they don't have them and will be holding their attack back after dark. >> there is nothing to suggest that they are in possession of that technology. they have high-velocity weapons, and at one point they had a rocket-propelled grenade. those weapons are incredibly dangerous in their own rights. on the other hand it's a difficult situation to work with in an unknown environment. so these are the things that top professionals like these guys have worked hard at they have rehearsed at and they will want to do this operation. it's -- and if the trigger is fired -- if the level of violence escalates then the authorities will have no option

but to mount an assault. >> will they have worked on trying to deal with a number of different situations which may be linked happening simultaneously and there by complications their situation, is that something that could have been rehearsed? >> they will have rehearsed as many scenarios as possible. and they are the top people in their field, so their offices will be capable of adjusting and being flexible enough to deal and make decisions as the situation -- as the situation unfolds. >> we'll be back with you later on. for now, robin thanks very much indeed. that is dammartin, to remind you about 30 kilometers north of paris, close a big international airport there, come south to the french capitol and move east

this is an eastern suberb called porte de vincennes and a gunman there who it has been suggested is linked to those brothers a number of kilometers away has taken hostages and he has issued an ultimate um. rory challands remind us of that. first of all what we have heard in the last 40 minutes? >> yeah what we heard recently from the paris police is that the gunmen in the kosher supermarket not far away from where i'm standing has said he is going to start executing his hostages if the police move against the kouachi brothers in that first hostage siege situation that is connected to the charlie hebdo shootings. so this suggests a couple of things. it suggests first of all there has been some sort of exchange between the police and the

hostage taker here and it also suggests that there is some -- at least small link between these two sieges. these two hostage situations. it may just be a link of -- of a sympathetic cause of working towards the same aims or it may be something much more firm than that. these men may actually know each other. that will reveal itself in the fullness of time. but the situation here has actually been pretty calm for the last two years -- sorry two weeks -- sorry, two hours or so. there is a cordon that the police have set up behind me about 20 meters down the road it stretches all around this area and it has been an information blackout pretty much since about 1:30 this afternoon when a gunman stormed into the -- the kosher supermarket,

and took five or six hostages. the police have released the name of the person they want to speak to. and they also want to speak to a woman as well. now the police here think the hostage taker at this event is connected to a shooting yesterday, in which a police officer woman lost her life. >> rory the area where you are, porte de vincennes, eastern suburbs of paris describe what is happening around you, and also the area itself. >> reporter: the area is a multi-cultural area lots of people from all over the world live in this particular part of paris. now that we have this incident here the streets are quiet.

other than emergency vehicling coming by. it has been tense but quiet, as i say -- and around the cordon you have crowds of people trying to see what is going on trying to wait and see what happens in the situation. >> rory i'm going to stop you for just a second. these are live pictures we're getting from dammartin. well i heard some kind of bang just then. and we see smoke. [ gunfire ] >> what sounds like automatic gunfire. i'm not going to say very much for a little while. let's just listen in.

>> i imagine the shouting we're hearing is coming from those members of the media, that distance away from the industrial area. smoke clearing away but we saw the smoke go up we heard a couple of thumps some kind of explosion, and then we heard what appeared to be automatic gunfire. this is as close as we can get with the cameras. we know nothing more than that. and barnaby you know nothing more than that. but the picture we're seeing there is quite a bright picture. i think what happens is the

camera can lend in effect to pictures which makes it look brighter, but dusk is falling. and this would be about the time that many people would be expecting to go -- or certainly early morn hours, but certainly once darkness starts to fall. >> reporter: yes, the cameras could have the irises wide open. you can perhaps see behind me a better indication of the light of day. it's 5:00. we're in the middle of winter and i can see the sun very very low setting over the city of paris. what we were hearing it -- and i was only hearing it through my ear piece. sounded like automatic gunfire after those explosions and shouting. so it seems there has been some sort of dramatic development in

the siege here in dammartin. >> we were then seeing barnaby a helicopter belonging to the security forces its rotors turning. impossible to say whether it just landed or about to take off, but that would be as i'm looking at it to the left of this industrial complex in dammartin. you have seen a massive amount of security personnel there. have you seen an increase recently? >> reporter: no what i have seen -- i'm just going to look toward the town if i may david. i can see civilian traffic going into the town and it has -- i would say -- yeah perhaps -- perhaps the camera man could just look over to the town, thank you, and you can see those are cars going into dammartin, right at the moment. that's dammartin on the skyline. you can see they are backed up

there. perhaps you can see all of the red lights. there are armed policemen just below me. i wouldn't say that they are quite waving everybody through, but they are letting the vast amount of traffic to go through. they are checking who people are, but they haven't yet prevented people from -- from going in. i would say their attitude over the last three or four hours had been more relaxed than it had been at the first part of the mourning when we got here and when things were at lot tenser at that stage. >> barnaby we don't know what has happened so far. we will be back with you in a moment. i want to play this again for our viewers. this was the moment probably five or six minutes ago when we believed