>> there's one overwhelming priority. rest all right. remember you can keep up to date with everything you have been covering on the website. the address aljazeera.com. do check it out. >> after all is this time the keystone xl pipe life does not run to the gulf of mexico, but the bill authorizeing the project is about to run as far as the white house, where the president promises a veto. it's inside story. &. >> hello, i'm ray suarez.

the keystone pipeline will bring crude from canada through the united states to the gulf of mexico. back when the debate was joined crude oil was much more expensive. u.s. supply was not as large and canadian crude was making it out of canada by rail. fast forward to today crude is cheap. american supply is plentiful and the u.s. senate is controlled by republicans. so keystone's extension is once again in focus for legislators and for "inside story." the senate voted to move forward with debate around the keystone xl pipeline. president obama has threatened veto a bill authorizing the pipeline if it lands on his desk. bills need two-thirds support from the senate, 7 votes to override the presidential veto. >> we're asking the president again today, and to do that we're working against the

gridlock to get this infrastructure project moving. >> as a new member of congress i'm proud we passed the legislation. and the keystone pipeline that will create thousands of jobs. we're off to a strong start. >> environmentalists and middle american ranchers are all opponents of the pipeline planned. their concerns are about the potential environmental effects. when a new majority takes over in the congress, you know the first bill they take up symbolizes their priorities. of all the things that they pick they pick a bill that in terms of permanent job creation would be 35 jobs. that's proven by the state department. this is really a big hug and big kiss to big oil and canadian interests.

that's what it's about. if the pipeline is build more than 800,000 barrels of crude oil a day would run from canada through the u.s. >> congress is calling to remove the barrier, meant to bring canadian oil to the outside world through the ports of gulf of mexico. there is argument over how many jobs the project will and won't create. later on the program, the federal gas tax, learning with insolventcy last summer was the high trust fund simply not equal to the task that it's been given, maintaining the country's roads and bridges.

joining me, carol moreau debby sees, and amy meyer-javi. karen moreau, has the price picture for oil, the difficulty of extracting oil from the tar sands and just the delay sort of change the profitability picture, change the economic picture for keystone xl? >> not in view of our company. this is something that is very important, and this will help establish our nation in the forefront, increase our energy security, and create many, many jobs for hard-working americans many of whom work with their

hands. these are good paying jobs. this is important to the industry and the american people people. it means a lot of construction jobs, but then when the project is finished, don't those jobs sunset. >> well, construction jobs by their nature are temporary jobs, but it does not mean that they're not good jobs, and they're not important to people. especially those who don't have jobs. it's a concern in my view that it seems that so much of the opposition comes from people who are well-off, they're comfortable. they are good jobs. we rely on people who whether things in this country, they extract energy from the earth. they're dirty jobs. they're tough jobs. they go on all day long, yet they provide low-cost energy to our nation.

>> debbie sees. this is something that the pros and anti-s differ on fundamentally. but you heard from karen moreau, and you heard from mitch mcconnell earlier, jobs are jobs and they're important. >> at best, keystone, 35 jobs. we know from past history that investing in clean renewal energy creates many more jobs per dollar invested, and it is better for the environment. these are all cost and no benefit for this country. >> the 35 jobs benefits does not match up to what it means to build 1200 miles of pipeline. it will take more than 35 people to do that, right? >> but if you want to make jobs around pipelines, we have miles and miles of pipelines that are leaking,

and they're waiting to leak. we need to fix and that's a better way to create jobs than netting in canadian oil. >> amy meyer jaffey. have the benefits by keystone xl and it's detriments been ex-aged by those who don't want it built. >> the reality is, as you said at the top of the hour, is that the fundamentals of the project has changed dramatically. the first thing we know is that in the last 60 days two new pipelines will go to the gulf of mexico. saudi arabia has been talking about defending it's market share because they were losing market share to canada and to the united states.

we also have a giant energy reform that was passed in mexico that is a changed reality. we play have increasing production in mexico instead of what has been declining production there. again, some of our supply avenues for this heavier kind of oil, which is not the kind of oil being produced in the shale boom in texas, where we might have other supplies, and so, you know, it's a juggle because in fairness to the energy security question, if the low oil price created instability in venezuela in 2003, we saw that. with co-have a war in the middle east. i'm not saying that canada supply is not an important supply, but we have so many different options today, and some of our options have to do

with clean tech, more advanced automobiles, and we have options to have better mileage cars, so demand is expected to fall in the united states for gasoline and therefore oil in general. i really think that the canadian project for keystone, you know it sort of might have missed its time in its need right now. >> since this is energy intense to extract this oil, it's not like you just punch a hole in the ground, and it comes up like the opening scene in the "beverly hillbillies." it's hard to get at. it's hard to extract, and at $45 a barrel, is it really that desirable? >> well, i don't think that we should be in position to determine or dictate to a private company what it's business plan is.

i have actually been to the alberta area in canada. i visited several different places where they're extracting oil from the oil sands. i've seen the technology at work using natural gas in a cogeneration facility, which is a low-cost form of fuel. this is the highest level of technology being employed to produce energy for oh this nation, and i think our consumers are seeing the benefit of the production coming on the north american continent. it's changed the course of history, really, for this country an in the energy area, and we're seeing it at the pump with the lowest gas prices in years. >> you used the phrase "for this nation," and i've heard it a lot in the last couple of weeks that the lyon share of the oil traveling through that pipeline isn't intended to be used in the united states.

>> that's unfortunate, but that is not true. the oil would be going to the refinery in houston, which are some of the best refineries in the world. there is a high level of regulation that occurs in this nation with our refineries, and it's best that it's refined here, and it will go into the american economy. also, the whole--and amy speaks to this a bit and her expertise in this area has been the global picture and the economy with energy, but it's so important to keep in mind that part of a global picture, and what we do here does effect the price of oil,, and those who are producing it in other nations, and we do have this competition going on, which is made possible by the technologies coming from this nation. so i'm a strong--obviously i work for the oil and gas industry, but beyond that i come from a working family, a hard-working farm family, people

who work with their hands, and i have an appreciation for the kinds of jobs that this will create. it's important too many people who are without those jobs. >> you were trying to get in quickly before we go to the break. >> you know, i just want to make the point that everyone talks about the improved united states energy picture. it's true. the industry has done an amazing job at bringing back and having a renaissance in oil production, but we would have the same level of imports if our demand for gasoline was still rising, so we really do have to point to our corporate average efficiency standards and the downward trend for gasoline demands that come from having more fuel-efficient cars and a generation of young people and the millennial generation who don't really want to drive. it's really the combination that has brought us to this excellent place.

i think that point needs to be heard. >> when we come back from break, we'll look at what happens if the president's veto holds. is the oil going to get out? if there is no pipeline does it become any less likely that the canadian oil becomes refined and burned? stay with us. >> al jazeera america presents a breakthrough television event. borderland. six strangers. >> let's just send them back to mexico. >> experience illegal immigration up close and personal. >> it's overwhelming to see this many people that have perished. >> lost lives are relived. >> all of these people shouldn't be dead. >> will there differences bring them together or tear them apart? >> the only way to find out is to see it yourselves. >> which side of the fence are you on? borderland, tomorrow at 9 eastern, only on al jazeera america.

>> beyond the verdict and on the streets >> there's been another teenager shot and killed by the police

>> a fault lines special investigation >> there's a general distrust of this prosecutor >> courageous and in depth... >> it's a target you can't get rid of... >> the untold story... >> who do you protect? >> ...of what's really going on in ferguson >> they were so angry because it could have been them >> fault lines ferguson: race and justice in the u.s. one hour special only on al jazeera america >> welcome back to inside story on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. if the senate moves ahead for remove of the keystone pipeline as it's leader promises, and the president vetoes the bill, what happens to the oil being extracted in western canada? will it head west to accomplish british columbia? will it head west by railcar? will it move at all? does it still make sense to exploit the tar sands. debby

sease, from an environmental point of view, isn't it a wash? this is oil that is going to get burned? >> we don't think that that oil is evidently going to get burned. one of the reasons that the canadian government and the companies have invested so much effort in getting the keystone pipeline approved is that it's a linchpin to make it economical to deliver that oil. and also the longer it waits until it is developed the more evidence there is, the more public sentiment there is about not investing our future in the dirtyiest fossil fuels. >> but during this debate hasn't the oil been getting out through other means? >> not at the level it would if the keystone pipeline were approved. >> amy myers jaffe, fair comment, is it true that a lot more oil would be flowing if the

pipeline had been built? >> if there is demand for the oil it will flow. it will come on rail cars or villa patchworks of pipelines i do believe its hard to keep oil in the ground. when environmental groups say they want to keep oil in the ground, and they want us to do something else, they need to absolutely talk to the american drivers. it's the same as the drug trade. if the demand it there, the oil is going to get here. the amount of investments that have gone in the oil sands are commiserate with the demand of the market. another thing moving forward, if saudi arabia wants to keep its oil in our market because they want to have a common interest in the united states. if you have mexico improving it's oil industry, it will be a crowded market for this canadian oil. and so it probably has a cloudy cloudier commercial future than

it did three years ago. >> karen moreau, isn't there a market clearing price blow which it becomes less advantageous to mine it, and i would like to hear your response to debbie sease's points, the kinds of jobs you were talking about earlier. >> well, to your point, ray, i think you just made my point in saying that let the companies decide if, how, and when they're going to ex-practice the extract the oil, and how they're going to ship it. i don't think our government should be in the decision position to make that decision but because it's crossing our border, that's why obama administration is in this situation in the first place. there will be companies who

would produce oil at this price and there would be cops who would not. in response to debbie's suggestion of even clean energy jobs, it is coming because our government is subsidizeing this heavily. i see it in new york state where i'm located. but it depends so much on availability of low-cost gasoline, and it has led to so much opportunity and freedom in this nation. i drive an suv, i have five kids. instead of $70 at the pump, i'm spending $50. that $0 i'm saving will go to buy something else for my kids. there is a benefit here. >> debbi sease just pointed out that a lot of jobs being created are done so with either direct subsidy or various forms of tax breaks.

will these jobs that are being created by alternative energy be able to stand on their own in the marketplace at some time in the future? >> absolutely. one of the things to look at for every dollar invested in clean renewable energy creates five times more jobs than the same dollar invested in moss sill --fossil fuels. fossil fuels have had huge subsidies over the years. we're seeing solar and wind grow growing by leaps and bounds. yes, as we get committed to a cleaner energy future, we're going to see that market share increase, and single as we start to put the company's that are produceing fossil fuels on the hook for cleaning up their pollution, including carbon. >> truth be told the rare

rail cars that the oil is currently transported on were built by subsidies, too. as we go to break we'll look at gasoline taxes, the funds for maintaining bridges and roads are running low. and is $2.10 a gallon a safer >> on the stream >> sovereign citizens the movement has been named america's number one domestic security threat. so who are they? and what do they want? >> the stream, on al jazeera america

>> welcome back to inside story on al jazeera america. i'm ray suarez. as we've discussed the keystone xl pipeline has become a debate in american policy. we'll stay on that theme and shift to the falling price of gasoline. >> gas prices are at a five-year low to the delight of american drivers. >> we use the money for other things and getting to wherever i need to go. i own my own business, so it's real important there.

>> as gas prices fall, the federal highway trust fund that helps pay for roads and bridges is running out of money. the fund could drive up in five months. congress did a stop-gap fix last year. republicans senator bob corker and senator chris murphy of connecticut are offering a more permanent solution, raise the gas tax, the tariff that helps to pay for the fund. senator corker said that we're open to all sorts of ways to dealing with it, but one way that i'll lay over over the railroad tracks over is any form of short-term kick-the- can-down the road solution. >> still with us to discuss

whether raising the gas tax is a good idea, karen moreau with new york state's petroleum and debbie sease, and amy myers jaff jaffe. where do you come down? >> well, you know, during the recession there are several states in the united states that had no choice but to raise state gasoline taxes. it would have a positive affect on the budgets and consumers stomach it and went along. when we think about the federal situation we're going to have falling gasoline in this country. hopefully we stay i course and

the course, there is no solution for the hay trust fund and other projects that are related to gasoline sales expect to raise the gasoline tax, and it has the added benefit, we do not want to send the message to average americans that they should be buying gasoline-guzzling cars now that the price of gasoline is going down. we want people to take that savings, and invest it in other parts of the economy, you know like was said before, better education and other kinds of supplies for our children, going to the movies, enjoying a local restaurant. the best way to do that is to send the signal to people that we have adjusted to driving less, and we probably need to stay the course for that. >> debbie sease, the hidden problem is that as people use less gas, less money goes into the trust fund to maintain the bridges and roads.

>> you're right on both counts. in fact, the deficit that we have in terms of what it would take to get our bridges, our roads, and our mass transits up to what it needs to be by 2020 is $1.7 trillion. that's what it takes. we've been losing about $12 billion a year in terms of the gap between what the current tax brings in, and what we're spending. we really do need to take this moment when gas prices are low and actually modestly increase the gas tax. the public actually likes the things that one does with the gas tax even if they don't niecely like the idea of a gas tax. >> karen moreau, does that make sense to you as an argument? >> well, our companies are api is fairly neutral on this issue, and the arguments are

interesting, certainly on all sides. again, as the owner of a gas-guzzling suv, and frankly, i couldn't fit my family into anything smaller, i see that gasoline consumption in this country, i don't see it going down. in fact, you don't have to ask me, but the iea has predicted that we're going to see consumption remain about 60% with fossil fuels being the source of that, of course. an interesting thing from our point of view would be if we're going to address infrastructure such as roads and bridges, shouldn't we open the conversation to all infrastructure such as pipelines when we talk about the nation's infrastructure and funding that. we think that has to be part of the discussion. >> amy myers jaffe is it a less politically sensitive time because gas averages

$2.10. >> i do public speaking to consumers and to groups all around the country, and it's always popular when you're not a politician to talk about the good things we could accomplish just through a gasoline tax even if it's just to reduce the deficit. we do have this opportunity. at least to debate it, and see if rational heads can prevail, and i commend corker and his colleagues for at least getting it on the table. >> well thank you to you three rational heads for joining me today on inside story. debbie sease. karen moreau, and amy myers jaffe, thank you to you all. we want to hear what you think about the issues raised on today's show. log on to our phase book page. accepted us your thoughts on twitter. or follow me directly @ray

suarez news. from washington, i'm ray suarez. today on "talk to al jazeera." the actor thafng ethan hawke. >> you can make of the truth what you will. we make big moments define our life. the romantic moments happen on a bus ride. you can't anticipate. >> the coming of divorce and being a father. >> i've been a child of divorce,