tiny dots and will take two days to get back here to earth. but july, though, new horizons will get within 14,000-kilometers of the surface, pretty close in cosmic terms before it heads even deeper in to outer space. space.

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i am bob, chief the police department, my officers bill and my son brandon didn't realize there were people at war with this country that are not international terrorists. >> welcome back, we are discussing the is off venture citizens movement and a newed study classifies it as the nation's top security threat. those in the movement believe that all governments in the u.s. as illegitimate and are not subject to statutes and legal proceedings. ryan, why sovereign citizens is loosely based, it's more

organized than simply americans with anti-government views. can you talk about some of the tactics that are typically deployed to demonstrate sovereign citizen values? >> sure. i mean, i think the primary tactic is, you know, what is called paper terrorism. these are instances where sovereign citizens will file court paperwork, which is often retaliatory or vengeful, to exact grievances. exact revenge for grieve grievances, they frequently put leans on properties. in alabama, for example, in birmingham sovereign citizens tried to put leans on the county courthouse there which is a 200-year-old building or whatever. so, you know, the paper terrorist is one. but also just the idea that they do not have to answer to law enforcement. if i can say quickly best break there was some discussion about whether, you know, about gauging the danger posed by the

sovereign citizen ideology. it doesn't have to be mesh nerd a body count. this is an ideology that does not believe in the rule of law as it exists in this country. >> that's not true. >> that's not true. >> i want to jump in here and ask. struck by this video i saw of a man named anthony williams who calls himself a sovereign police officer. let's have a watch. >> today is my first official day as a sovereign peace officer. see, i got my badge. i got my handcuffs. and i got my common law citation in my vehicle. >> alfred, how common is that? >> that's the first i have heard of it. but you can find people who are off -- you know, there are people that do crazy things in any group you want to point to. you can find them on the dallas cowboys, you can find them in the police departments and you can find them who claim to be sovereigns. it's not an indication of -- it's not what everybody is doing. and to my knowledge that's the first one.

but i would like to -- the man from sound poverty lawsuit says paper terrorism. >> ryan. >> look, how terrifying can it be to send some paper in to a court? would you rather people shoot, set off bombs? for god sake these people do you have any idea how much work goes in to trying to learn enough where you can file a credible lawsuit. >> i don't think anybody is arguing with the idea of filing legitimate paperwork. i think the problem is that it appears to be used as an intimidation tactic where hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in leans, false leans are filed against public officials to intimidate that are you okay with that? >> are you okay with the idea that a man who commits a relatively minor crime can go to court and be sentenced to an extensive sentence based on the idea that this is good for deterrence? we are going to scare the rest of the dummies in to obeying the law because we are going to ruin one man's life for what's relatively minor offense. the whole concept of deterrence perpetrated by the government

against the people is retaliatory and venge. >> that's fine but -- >> inning. >> are you okay with the level targeted against government and law enforcement officials. >> i am not interested in intimidating but am interesting in a dialogue where people can get to the what is the common denominator here, where are we. all right? when we talk about the world paper terrorism. people who write court cases are terrorists? it's bias, it's on propaganda. it's not trying to resolve the situation it's a way of saying forget that. don't pay any attention to the those people think they are filing court cases against the government they must be crazy. this government has very nearly collapsed our economy. we are the biggest debtor nation in. world and people are saying we have to defends the government. >> i want to get the chief back in.

since your son's murder you have dedicated your life to educating law enforcement officers about a group of -- a slice of the is off sen citizens who are perceived to be dangerous. talk to me about what you are doing in terms of education and curbing the activities of this violent sect. >> i am just trying to educate officers around the country about the dangers they pose when they confront sovereigns. not all sovereigns, but some. and we can't identify those that are the extremists. and as he says, there are those wildcards and crazy ones in any group that you have. but i am convinced if law enforcement is aware of their tactics, then it will save lives. brandon and bill had no idea who sovereigns remember. they had no idea they were dangerous, they felt they were dealing with a church group, a father and son from a church. their guard was down. had they had the information

that we were passing out today in educating officers with, i am convinced that they would be alive. but that's behind us. there is nothing that we can do with that. there is something that we can do with the officers now is to give them the information that sovereigns have said that law enforcement is their enemy. >> all right. >> and they have many around the country has deemed us as their enemies. >> some sovereigns. some sovereigns may have said that. >> all right on that note thanks for our guests retired police chief robert and alfred. us. in the last at the point years more americans have died on u.s. soil by attacks from violent far right groups, including white supremacists than those inspired by al qaeda. >> white power! >> coming up neck, hear interest some of the new strategies strategies and re-branding efforts these gripes are use to go gain more followers. and can and should the government be doing more to curb their recruitment?

>> beyond the verdict and on the streets >> there's been another teenager shot and killed by the police >> a fault lines special investigation >> there's a general distrust of this prosecutor >> courageous and in depth... >> it's a target you can't get rid of... >> the untold story... >> who do you protect? >> ...of what's really going on in ferguson >> they were so angry because it could have been them >> fault lines ferguson: race and justice in the u.s. one hour special only on al jazeera america

welcome back. we mentioned before the break that there have been more attacks on americans in the past decade by violent far right groups including white supremacists than by individuals inspired by al qaeda. if that sounded troubling, listen to this. just in the last six months people across the country have been reportedly finding bags of candy with fliers urging them to join the ku klux klan. some say the kkk is stepping up recruitment in the wake of events that increase racial tension in america like the shooting of michael brown in ferguson, mo joining us now is an anti hate and anti-racist singer. and ryan is still with us. so ryan, we have seen a recent surge in some of these attacks associated with white sue friend is a, a shooting at a aish community served, a shooting at a jewish nursing home where another person is killed.

is there a revival right now in the white supremacy movement? >> absolutely. hate groups from the racist right have been climbing steadily. last year they shrunk slightly. but without a doubt they are on a rise. there are reasons for this. we believe that these groups are growing as a result of changing demographics in the country . a discomfort in that reality. >> there is data to back that up. all study that looked at deadly attacks and looked at what they called deadly jihadist attacks had killed 29 people since 9/11. and right wing other tacks killed 3070 when i shared in information online, you can take a look at some of the different kind of shootings that they included in these dead are you attacks . we got questions about the labels being used. deadly right wing attack.

what is meant by right wing extremists and who is involved in this. and it made me, as i went back to the foundation and asked them them. they code right wing as individuals rooted in anti-government movement. and i want to ask you, are there -- do you take our community has taken issue with this, what do you think about that? >> i think the label that you used describe thing the radical right is quite accurate. these are groups that don't hold the government in any state of validity that denigrate groups of people based on characteristics like skin color, race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality. so i think it's quite clear what domestic extremism is . >> david, you were inspired to

use humor after a kkk rally. >> it was a creative response on behalf of some activists in knoxville, tennessee, who were environmental activists with a group called mountain justice that formed up a group called the could you klutz clowns to meet the kkk when they came to town. rather than meeting hatred with hatred or saying ignore them they chose to be presents but to transform the energy of the event in a way that really denied the kkk what they came for. but didn't just add fuel to the fire. >> it's interesting that you are using some innovative techniques to combat racism and hatred. you know, it's clear from the recent events that the kkk is trying to get in touch with kids. do you think that's where racism starts? >> well, i think it's extremely important to reach out to the kids. these problems are long in the making and they are generally long in the solution. but i really think it's

incumbent upon all of us to reach out to each other as adults and children. the best defense against bigotry is forming a community that's strong enough to withstand it. >> we have 32nd left in the show. i know you acknowledge that it's tough to talk to kids about bigotry and hatred think but how important is that conversation? >> it's massively important. and i think humor is a good way in. the clowns in knoxville went to a white power rally and threw white flour and joined the rally facetiously, it was extremely effective. it gives us a way to teach kids about nonviolence. >> and you have award winning songs and performances that you have all over the world that incorporate your message. you are quite an inspiration thank you to all of our guests today. including david and ryan. until next time, we will see you online at aljazerra.com/a jamstream.

>> people of greece head to the polls in an election that could change everything from the bailout, austerity and even membership of the euro. is welcome to the program live from the headquarters here in doha. i'm david foster. also, in the next 30 minutes india's prime minister breaking with protocol to greet president obama on the tarmac. >> i'm and