ank you. >> thank you for talking to al jazeera. great to meet you. thank you. >> thank you. >> welcome to the news hour. from al jazeera's news center in doha, these are the top stories. >> a shia militia in iraq pushed isil from a key target and preparing to push them from other strongholdses. >> a political deadlock continues. >> the u.n.'s cop court ruled that neither croatia nor serbia

schmidt genocide. >> on stage in new york, the syrian refugee who didn't have a piano lesson until 18 months ago. >> welcome to the program. we begin this news hour with the fight against isil. the iraqi miami and shia militia are declaring victory. the fight has been led by the badr corps. the group is now ready to move north into isil strongholds. we have a report. >> the celebration illustrated the growing power of shia groups here including the badr corps. the badr corps don't like to be called a militia but in effect are in control of their own operations. they are working with the iraqi government and with those forces have now taken over according to

the militia members leaders and iraqi government officials pretty much all of the province, a major stronghold of isil. it hasn't been without a cost. as they drove is through part of the territory, you can see abandoned villages, houses destroyed, even mosques destroyed in some areas, we were told. what we saw really indicated a region, the formerly rich region abandoned to the fighting. they are investigating an alleged massacre in an area of the province where villagers say dozens of unarmed men were shot dead. this celebration was really to congratulate the fighters, religious leaders and all of iraq over the victory. the head of the badr corps told them they would move on. he told us that they have already in fact started fighting there.

>> there is no other area more complicated than these areas. these five areas are considered the most complicated areas in iraq. we have nothing else, the rest of just desert landscapes and the desert they cannot fight. that is why i'm optimistic and by the help of god, we will defeat isil. >> he also said that no foreign troops would be tolerated in iraq. that actually means he clarified later with us, boots on the ground, if you will. he said advisors were fine. iranian fighters, even american advisers sass long as it was iraqis at the fore front of the fight against isil. >> this comes days after the peshmerga kurdish forces pushed isil out of kobane. the armed group controls mosul iraq's second biggest city.

they've taken the nearby city of talafa and are in control of a town near the border with syria. let's get more only and talked to retired lebanese army general joining us from beirut. how effective are these iraqi-shia militias, what role have they played in the fight against isil? >> i mean, it depends where they are fighting. it's highly complicated as in the report, because it's multi-ethnic, force on the ground are a coalition between the peshmerga iranian and iraq army and the shia militia. that's why we are having some success for this coalition. on the other hand, in mosul is totally different kobane, also. each one of these areas, they

have different operational situation, operational complexities. as far as for the center ice as i will and for the lebanese, the iraqi government and the americans. >> is isil losing key areas on the ground? >> isil has reached its over extension, the culminating point and now to have consolidate everything. i'm not really having a total safe haven because everybody is against them, but when you go north up, it's totally different. kobane is like a miscalculation for isil. 1,005 heartened experienced good fighters were killed over there and for what? i mean, it was good idealogically speaking, but it

wasn't strategically important so they have lost there. now the big test for the coalition as well as for the iraqi government and army is how to deal with an bar, as well as mosul. it is highly important though there is some success for the peshmerga as far as sinjar is concerned and talafa is concerned. >> we've been hearing about this push to retake mosul in the spring. how well prepared is the iraqi army? they don't have a great track record against isil, do they? >> mosul according to some american officers and general they say they need 80,000 boots on the ground. maybe the measure tactical suctions like taking sinjar is really about encircling mosul and then cut the logistics and then try to diminish. if you look at kobane today it's totally destroyed.

are they prepared to really destroy mosul? having in find that the sunnis are the majority and the sunnis in all of iraq of part of the situation. is it feasible? i doubt. >> thank you for talking to al jazeera. >> i'm del walters in new york. we are breaking away right now because we want to take you to washington d.c. a senate subcommittee is set to hold a hearing on the new policies between the united states and cuba. these are live images out of the senate chambers where that hearing is about to take place. that is florida senator marco rubio presiding over the hearing. the senator opposing president obama's every move to normalize relations between the u.s. and cuba. listen in for a second. he is introducing members of the panel now. we're going to give you some

background. cuba's human rights violations are expected to be a major concern today. they may become a major hurdle in the road to any agreement between the count two countries. we have a report. >> today's hearings come as we're getting a first look at new photos of former cuban leader fidel castro. in several pictures, the 88-year-old seen speaking with a university student and hold ago recent newspaper. more than 20 photos from the cuban newspaper were released among speculation that castro's health maybe on the decline. the u.s. says it will open a u.s. embassy in havana, ease travel restriction to say cuba and permit americans who travel there to use credit cards and a.t.m.'s. it will raise a cap from $500 to $2,000 of amounts that can be

sent to cuba. normalizing relations could be a boom for businesses. new rules will make it easier for u.s. construction to sell construction materials and agricultural equipment for farmers. it will mean greater access for the airline and shipping industries. right now only 5% of people can get on line. the biggest hurdles may be yet to come. president castro wants cuba removed from the u.s. list of country that is sponsor terrorism, something washington says it will consider. he wants the u.s. to hand back guantanamo bay and list its embargo against the island. with republicans in control of congress that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee marco rubio a cuban american has been a staunch critic. >> this penalty is the sing the worst negotiator we've had in the white house in my lifetime, who has basically given the

cuban government everything it asked for and received no assurances of any of advances of democracy in return. >> human rights violation were brought up in recent talks between both sides in havana. >> we do have differences in that subject pro found differences with the cuban government, and it was part of the conversation today. i think i can say that their responses was they had differences with us on that subject. >> something both sides agree on is continuing the talks this month to ultimately hammer out a deal. al jazeera, new york. >> we are joined in studio by ted hanken, an expert on cuba. the question has to be asked normalize relation witness cuba, good thing or bad thing? >> well, i think that some people frame this as a concession to the cuban government or giving something to the cuban government, but i really see it as a good thing because it's giving something to

ourselves in the sense that our past policy isolated us not just in the hemisphere, but in the world. we were always voted down by huge margins in the u.n., and we had very little influence on the island, very little engagement with the government or the people of cuba. to me, it's a change of strategy but not a change in goal which is to empower the cuban people and to push and press for greater freedoms on the island. >> so you have been back and forth to cuba now between 15-20 times. over the years has the situation for the cuban people, not the leadership, not fidel castro not raul, but has the situation for the cuban people, getting better or worse. >> for the past 25 years they've had what's called a special period since the collapse of the soviet union and a slow motion series of changes that are in some ways the government's been forced to make changes, in some ways managing the changes to preserve their power. on the ground, there have been

openings and closings and the cuban people are very distrustful of the government, because they never know when what was legalized yesterday is going to be percent cute or prosecuted again today. i would say that the rising tide in cuba doesn't lift all boats and that some people are fear that go they're going to get left behind, because the social guarantees of the government that were very strong and covered everyone universally health care, education those systems have weakened significantly, plus the government has decided to target its welfare to those who need it and not focus on everybody so a reaction booklet that helps people buy subsidized food is being phased out. changes are good if you can take advantage of your position or your entrepreneurial spirit, but if you're an agent worker living off a pension you probably feel desperate about what's happening and unsure about where things

are going. >> is there a fear that as cuba opens its door to western powers to come in in the united states, and business, hotels, motels, et cetera that the people that left cuba, the people that were wealthy enough to get off the island could get out at first are going to come back, reclaim old territory and say this is mine and actually take over cuba and the people that were there and suffered through the worst years are going to be left behind? >> there is an irony in that the people who were committed to the revolution who gave their lives and maybe their children's lives to the revolution and believed in it could be swept aside. they are very poor. i mean, cubans, you could say in some ways are all equal meaning their all equally poor and not positioned to defend their economic interests as citizens. >> will they be taken advantage of? >> i think that that is a concern, both by the cuban government and cuban people. however, i think looking at the cuban exile community as a threat is only half the story.

the exi'll community is extremely wealthy and a great asset. cubans receive remittances from the united states, and many keeping the island and households of cuba afloat. >> as we move into this new chapter in u.s.-cuba releases, you hear both sides of the aisle, one saying the white house gave away the candy store the others saying the economic sanctions in place for 50 years weren't working. which side is right? >> to me, it's really -- there's no argument in supporting the previous strategy. the strategy failed, and most people agree with that. even surveys among cuban people, say the strategy failed but we need it keep it in place out of principle and motherralty. it had a moral downside, tarting a government, but often our

embargo victimized the cuban people because it isolated them in many ways, cut off resource to say them and it gave the cuban government a really great argument. we are being attacked from outside, we need to unify. it was really harsh for democracy and independent actors on the island, dissidents, because they can very easily be labeled by the cuban government mercenaries working in the behest of foreign powers. it put all the focus within cuba and internationally on the embargo and not on the evils of the cuban government and its internal embargo. i think the pivot is really positive because it has the potential to both empower the cuban people and change the conversation about who's responsible for problems in cuba. >> again, we have broken away from our partners in doha covering the senate subcommittee hearings under way. this is senator barbara boxer

she is retiring, making her opening statements. >> they were too afraid to speak to us. how is our nation served? i want to leave you with a thought. there's an old saying, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. now, i know no one here is insane. we are all quite sane and working toward the same thing and i hope we can unite around this. we owe to it the cuban citizens to give this new policy a chance. thank you very much, mr. chairman. >> thank you senator boxer. we are joined by both the chairman and ranking member of the committee. i want to recognize them for any comments they might have. mr. chairman. >> i want to thank the leadership of this committee the chairman and ranging member. we expect the subcommittee

leadership which we have outstanding leadership on our committee to say have robust hearings which you're doing today. i thank you for the way you framed this. there are a lot of divergent views relative to what happened relative to the changes on policy in cuba. i hope through these hearings, we will converge on a policy that is good for america. thank you for your leadership. >> thank you mr. chairman. senator menendez. >> thank you, for holding the hearing along with the ranking member and thank you for this opportunity on an issue that i have followed for sometime. let me be as clear today on this issue as i was in december, that 18 months are secret negotiations produce add bad deal. a bad deal for the cuban people, while it may have been done with the best of intentions, in my view we've compromised bedrock

principles for virtually no concessions. i would just say i don't want to relive 50 years of engagement with china that has brought us forced abortions prison camp labor, one child policy, ethnic cleansing in tie bet exile of the dalai lama and most recently repression in hong kong's democracy, as well as arrests of human rights activists and political dissidents, 50 years of those engagements, maybe we can say that we're doing business with china but we can't really hold up democracy and human rights as a great success story that have engagement. if that's what we hope for the cuban people, then it's a sad day. at the end of the day, 53 political prisoners were released while so many more remain in jail. the cuban people, who have suffered most under the regime still have zero guarantees for any basic freedoms. i'm also concerned that the 53

prisoners were not released unconditionally and continue to force legal hurdles and that several of them have been rearrested including one who was violently beaten by cuban security the day after christmas and detained for two weeks. i'm concerned that the president announced that the international committee of the red cross and the united nations would be granted access in cuba, yet we know from the state department briefings that they will be allowed to travel to havana, but only to discuss prison conditions with the regime officials and won't be given access to cuban jails or cuban prisoners, which does nothing to improve human rights conditions in cuba. i'm concerned that there was not one substantial step towards transparent democratic elections, improved human rights freedom of assembly or the ability to form independent political parties and independent trade unions. ironically just two weeks after the announcement, the regime arrested more than 50 people who tried to speak about the hopes

for the future of their country. that's all they tried to do. the deal achieved nothing for americans, who's family members have been victims of the castro regimes crimes and terrorism or for the thousands of u.s. citizens that hold over $6 billion in claims for properties and businesses confiscated by the castes, or the americans that are still waiting for cuba to settle a $2 billion in judgments rendered by u.s. courts against the castro regime. we released a spy convicted of conspiracy of murder, and he goes back to cuba. why were other returns not part of the deal? i'm concerned september 17 of this past year, an article in politico congressman james

mcgovern said raul castro admitted to giving the order to shoot down two private airplanes with u.s. citizens onboard in 1996. he said "i gave the order i'm the one responsible." yet, this is who we are negotiating with. now raul castro is demanding the return of guantanamo, a full u.s. list of concessions including limiting our democracy -- while the cuban people still struggle to make ends meet. that's why among many other reasons, mr. chairman, i think this is a bad deal and i ask my statements be included in the record. >> we move to our testimony and i recognize secretary jake con

send. your full statement is in the record. we ask you keep your statement to five minutes or so so we can get to the questioning. thank you for being here today. >> thank you mr. chairman and members of the committee for the opportunity to testify today on newt approach to u.s.-cuban policy. i appreciate your engagement on issues related to cuba and western hemisphere and know your struck in itment to values, human rights and expanding economic opportunities in the americas. i want to thank this committee for assistance in welcoming the long overdo return of alan gross to his family. his five long years of detention during that time, the administration worked closely with men members of congress from both chambers and parties to secure his release. as the president and the secretary have said, we're also grateful for the essential roles of canada, pope francis and the sad ken in reaching an agreement that made mr. gross's freedom possible.

september 17, the president announced the new policy towards cuba. our previous approach to relations with cuba, over half a century, though rooted in the best of intentions failed tome power the cuban people. instead, is isolated us from democratic partners in this hemisphere and around the world and was used by the cuban government as an excuse for restrictions on its citizens. as a result, those most deprived were the cuban people. the president's initiative looks forward and its design to promote changes that support universal human rights and fundamental freedoms for every cuban. we also seek to promote our other national interests. these steps emphasize the value of people to people contact and very specific forms of increased commerce. we're already seeing indications that are updated approach gives and you say greater ability to engage other nations in the hemisphere and around the world in promoting respect for fundamental freedoms in cuba. from the beginning of this

administration, we have sought to support the cuban people in freely determining their own future, their own political and economic future, because ultimately it will be the cuban people themselves who drive political and economic reforms. that is why we lifted restrictions to make it easier for cuban americans to travel and send remittance to say their families in cuba and opened the pathways for religious and people to people exchanges and these changes created powerful new connections between our two countries. our new steps build on this foundation by increasing authorized travel and commerce and the flow of information to, from and within cuba. the regulatory changes will increase the financial resources to support the cuban people, and the emerging cuban private sector. they will also enable u.s. companies to expand telecommunications and internet access into cuba. d policy will no longer be a

barrier to connectivity in cuba. two weeks ago i made a historic trip to cuba, one that helped me understand the burden and hope embodied in this policy. when average cubans wished me luck and encouraged our efforts during talks, we were they're that our governments have both shared interests and sharp differences. on practical issues, such as establishing direct mail, counter narcotics cooperation and oil spill mitigation, among others we agreed to continue dialogue and increase cooperation, but this administration is under no illusions about the nature of the cuban government. i also raised with our cuban interlockitures, violation of cubans expressing their views and with independent media voice to say talk about what they need from their government and what

they need from us. i raise several elements that presently inhibit the work of our u.s. interest section including travel restrictions on our diplomats limits on local actions and problems of receiving shipments. the successful resolution will enable to future u.s. embassy to provide services champions rete with other diplomatic missions around the world. i hope you won't object if i take this opportunity to salute tireless work to advance u.s. interests on the island. dedicated public servants have done their jobs under often difficult circumstances. we've only just begun the official talks on normalizing relations, which will take considerably longer than this first step of the reestablishment of releases. even while doing so, we will continue to encourage our allies to take every public and private opportunity to support respect for human rights and fundamental

rights in cuba and i encourage members visiting cuba to expand engagement with independent voices in human civil society and engage on human civil rights and democracy. we know there is a diversity of views on this issue in congress and hope we can work together to find common ground towards our shared goal of enabling the cuban people to determine their own future. thank you very much. >> thank you. secretary. >> thank you so very much, mr. chairman senator boxer members for having us today. it is plain from the debate that we are having that people who care passionately about the cause of freedom in cuba candace agree, sometimes passionately about the best way to advance it. i've been working on this cause for many years myself, and i believe with all my heart that the president made the right decision. i have also listened with great respect and care to those who disagree and i certainly do not

dismiss their concerns. i want to start by making a few points on which i hope we all do agree. first of all all of us agree that human rights must be the bedrock. how we will take our cues from the cuban people, supporting their vision for the future, secretary kerry said that we endorse the objectives that human civil society groups have rallied around. second i trust we all agree that the most meet result of this new policy, the release of 53 activists now back with their families able to continue their brave work is a good thing. the released men and women include virtually everyone known to my bureau for having been prosecuted in cuba for the peaceful exercise of their political views. i can assure that you we will spare absolutely no effort to

ensure that everybody in this category is free in cuba not just from prison, but from harassment threats and restrictions. third, we all agree that the release of these prisoners does not change the fundamental nature of a state that tries to stifle everything it does not control. we have no he will illusions about the current leadership's desire to keep things just as they are. we fully agree that none of this neither cuba's repression, nor its poverty nor its isolation is a the fault of the united states or of the embargo. the responsibility lies with the cuban government,er 50 years of experience with the embargo we have to face the hard truth that it has not weakened the apparatus of the cuban government or strengthened civil society. a dominant figure in cuba has been the complete absence of change and of home day after day, year after year. i say this assembly who often

supports economic sanctions and i totally agree with you senator rubio when you say that no country ever became a democracy simply because of trade or tourists. at the same time, we have all seen how the castro government has succeeded around the world in making our embargo a bigger issue than its own repression, making it extremely hard to motivate pressure for human rights on the island. cuba has used terrible excuses they adjusted nothing but we have to acknowledge that this has worked for the castes over the years. what has changed is it is not going to work anymore. every country knows now that the united states is not the obstacle to cuba's prosperity. every citizen of cuba knows the u.s. is willing to have normal relation witness their country help them connect with the world. these steps raised cuban people's expectations and

shifted the burden to the cuban state of meeting those burdens. the state can begin the reforms needed for its people to benefit from this opening to the u.s. in which case the cuban people will be less dependent on their government and have more power to shape their future or it can keep resisting reforms in which case everyone will know who is to blame. that's the opportunity. we now have to work together to try to seize it by getting more information to the cuban people, more resources usuallying our country to say join us in pressing the cuban government on human rights and democracy. i was in bolivia for the inauguration of the new president there but i went for the express purpose also of meeting with leaders and foreign ministers from throughout the hemisphere to urge them to do just that. we are working to ensure that civil society from cuba can engage with governments at the summit of the americas in panama. the cuban government has also

proposed government to government talks on human rights and i will lead our delegation to that effort. we will continue our programs that promote the realization of human rights in cuba just as we do in scores of other countries around the world. look, none of us can say what will happen next. some of cuba's bravest dissidents people we profoundly respect for their sacrifices believe little good is likely to come from these changes. others believe just as strongly that we've done the right thing. they have different view it is, because the future is uncertain. i'll close by suggest that go this uncertainty after decades of absolutely depressing certainty that nothing can change in cuba carries with it a sense of possibility. our task is to seize that opportunity and to realize that possibility, and i look forward mr. chairman, to working with you and other members to do that in the coming months. thank you.

>> thank you both. we'll begin now the first round of questions. my hope is to get two rounds in, five minute segments on questions and we'll go by seniority on the committee seven minutes. let me begin. secretary jacobsen, when did you learn about these negotiation with reward to say change of policy towards cuba? >> i knew for throughout the period that there were efforts underway to secure the release of alan gross. >> when did you know about the policy changes being negotiated? >> i knew about the policy changes that accompanied that effort some weeks probably about a couple of months before they were announced. >> in the two months you knew bit, were you involved in the gorks? >> i was not. >> was anybody in the state department involved in the negotiations? >> i can't speak for the secretary of state. i know that no one in my bureau was involved. >> who were the lead negotiators for the united states? >> to the best of my knowledge they were the nfc personnel that you mentioned at the beginning

of the hearing. >> who were the lead negotiators for the cuban government, diplomats or members of the military or intelligence. >> i don't know that. >> ok. were you consulted or regularly briefed by the negotiators for your input on the policy changes? >> what i can say that is when we were talking about securing the release of alan gross the state department was in the lead on that part of the gross detention. we were in the lead on the conditions of confinement. we were in the lead in contacting his family and working -- >> what about the policy changes? >> well, there has been a pros of looking at potential policy changes with cuba that had been going on throughout the administration that have brought many agencies together. much of that discussion was the basis for the conversation. >> as the negotiations were ongoing with the two individuals

that i've identified who are not here today were you personally contacted as the person who's now in charge of making this come about were you involved in interaction with the negotiators giving input and advice during the last two months? >> in the last two months as we were preparing for on the policy changes, i was not. >> ok. >> as we were preparing to implement the effect of those changes, i was. >> so it's fair to say that this negotiation occurred through nse personnel, the state department was not in charge or involved in unless the secretary of state was in providing advice and counsel on negotiating the policy changes. >> to the best of my knowledge most of the preparation on the policy changes had been done through the policy committee that was an interagency policy committee prior to those negotiations, but during that process, we were not. >> ok. now, secretary when did you learn about these negotiations on the policy changes?

>> like assistant secretary jacobsen, i was aware that there were negotiations with regard to alan gross. >> were you reached out to from the state department for a suggestion of who should be on the list of the 53 political prisoners? >> we were involved in every conversation interagency about political prisoners in cuba, about who -- away. >> you consulted on the 53 or what the list should be? >> the list was based on input that is were provided over time by cuban civil society organizations. >> were you consulted? >> not personally, but i can tell you that they asked for exactly the right people to be released. >> which civil society groups ircuba or opposition groups were consulted to the best of your knowledge about the list. >> you know who documents who is in prison in cuba for their political views.

all of those lists were consulted and incorporated and the list was exactly the right list. >> the administration during these negotiations culted with civil society in cuba about who should be on the list? >> we have been consulting with cuban civil society -- >> specifically, were groups within cuba consulted and asked who should be the people on the list prioritized what's the status with each individual on the list? >> not specifically with respect to the negotiations. >> just in general. >> but in general we base our knowledge of who is in prison in cuba on their work. >> that takes me back to another question. which civil society groups in cuba were in the loop, who were consulted during the progress of this negotiation? i know you were not involved, but subsequently talked to some of them. which pro democracy groups in cuba were aware of those negotiations and cult would about the subject matter of the negotiations. >> i think you probably have to ask some of those groups, but to

the best of my knowledge, we have continued to consult with those groups throughout that period and through tom and my work in the bureau, as we always consult with them, but as part of the negotiations, i don't know that any were specifically consulted. the input that we get through our. >>er section and through our own work was certainly known to the negotiators. >> lets talk about something you are involved in negotiating now. you traveled to havana the r. land ever oflastweek. when she speaks, you take what she says with some level of authority and seriousness. she has some level of authority from the government to be at the table and speak on their behalf? >> yes. >> i want to ask you about yesterday, she had a statement that says cuba's lead negotiator

said if the united states wants free movement for its diplomats in cuba, they must stop using them. in terms of training, otherwising, supplying and financing elements within our country that act against the government and cuban people. the total movement is tied to a change in the behavior of its diplomatic meeting and its officials. would we accept an embassy where we are not allowed to meet with activists in the island. >> we would not curtail our involvement now. >> she is saying in order for to us open an embassy and you said she speaks with authority. she made clear yesterday that in order to open an embassy in cuba and allow our personnel greater

freedom than they have now, we would have to agree not to allow them to. >>er act with democracy activists. can you say we will never accept that condition on our personnel? >> what i can say that is i don't yet know whether that's a real condition on their part, but we could not accept that condition. >> what do you mean it's not a real condition? you said shies a serious person speaking with authority. >> i also think that sometimes things are said in public that are not necessarily a position in private and i don't know that they have made that a condition yet. >> but in fact that is their position in public today, is it not? >> i saw what you said in public. >> in practice, that's their position. >> we could not accept not meeting with democracy act visits and with the broadest swath of cubans possible. that's the point of this policy. >> my time is up. i guess what i'm trying to get is the following. can you say today that people watching this broadcast and here in the audience and to members of the committee that under no

circumstances will the united states ever agree to limit to agree to limit the ability of our personnel to interact with democracy activists and civil society in cuba as a condition of expanding our embassy operations? >> we want to have the greatest possibility to interact with everybody, including democracy activists all all over the island. that's the point of our getting the geographic restrictions lifted. >> we will nevergraphy with the cuban government that we will agree to limit our pen necessarily. >> we are going to keep push to go get those restrictions lifted. >> this is a pretty straight forward question. would we ever agree in a negotiation to the cubans that in order to open an embassy, we will agree not to send our people to meet with democracy activists, yes or no? >> i can't imagine that we would have -- go to the next stage of our diplomatic relationship with an agreement not to see democracy activists no. >> that in a nutshell is why we are covering this hearing for you today.

it is on the issue of normalizing u.s.-cuba relations that is florida senator marco rubio going toe-to-toe with the state department representative. we are going to take a break. we'll be royalty back with more. you are watching aljazeera america. erica.

>> you are watching continuing coverage of the senate sub committees hearings on normalized relations between the united states and cornerback boo. we want to take you back to washington right now. this is california senator barbara boxer who indicated earlier that she is in favor of normalizing those relations. lets listen in. >> i believe if we have contact with the people, we give them hope. we give them the possibility of being empowered so to -- so i

have to say with all my heart and deep respect for my ranking member and my subcommittee chairman whom i congratulate on the chair even though i regret that we lost control i do think he deserves congratulations. the fact of the matter is, they represent the status quo and the status quo in cuba has not worked. i don't think there's anyone who can argue that it has worked, although we'll probably hear a couple of people suggest that go it continue. i think president obama had courage just as nixon had courage to go to china, just as reagan had courage to deal with gorbachev, as bill clinton and john kerry and john mccain had courage to fight for normalization with vietnam. i ask it to be placed into the record 48 statements by foreign

government who supported this policy change, brazil, mexico, the european union and the vatican. may die that, sir? thank you. in light that have, can i ask our panel in either order what effect has the president's new cuba policy had on our relationship with other countries in the region and the world. >> thank you senator boxer. i think the reaction to this was extremely positive. we saw certainly as you've noted, widespread support throughout latin america for the policy change, and frankly there was shock by some of cowboy ba's allies in the region venezuela and others who were not quite sure what to make of it. that i think was also a very positive thing. the european union my counterpart in the european union reached out to me immediately. they are negotiate cuba and he wanted to make sure that we were

in synch because he felt immediately we could work more closely together now including on democracy -- >> if i could interim you so our new policy is in line with our ally's policy. >> yes. just as importantly when i was in cuba two weeks ago, for the first time when we held a large reception for democracy and home rights activists to which we invited european, asian and other diplomats they all came. >> where was this held? >> at our principle's office residence. >> this is in cuba? yes. >> that kind of answers the question. >> having the opportunity to meet disdents. >> can i hear from you sir? >> certainly i've had the same experience. i mentioned with when assistant secretary jake con send was in cuba, i was in la paz in bolivia where there was a gathering of

ministers and leaders throughout the hemisphere for the negotiation and i met with probably a dozen of them for the express purpose of talking about human rights in cuba. i have to say the overwhelming reaction i got was you have done a great thing for the hemisphere, how can we help. for the first time, i think we were able to have conversations at that level about what these countries can do for human rights in cuba by raising key cases, by urging no more harassment of dissidents, by urging cuba to ease the commitments made on prisons on meeting cuban dissidents themselves. for the first time we can have a conversation about that without the overhang of the embosch go, without anyone being able to say it is your policy that that's to blame. >> let me just say because i'm running out of time, to me, one of the most important statements came from pope francis who said the holy see will continue to

assure its support for initiatives which both nations will undertake to strengthen their bilateral relations and promote the well being of their respective citizens. now having the pope say that is a big deal. i'm just wondering were you aware that he was going to make that comment or was this just a reaction? was there any discussion with the pope just to get his views on this prior to this policy? >> the vaticans involvement in this policy change was crucial. the support of the vatican and pope france was something that was crucial to both sides. the respect for this pope, because he's a latin american and his important in cuba and throughout the hemisphere, i think is part of the reason it's so well respected not just in and of itself as tom said, but because of the emphasis that the pope has put behind it and i do think our work with the vatican and pope has been instrumental. >> you think that the pope's

strong support for this is resonating in cuba itself? >> absolutely. i heard about it everywhere, from cardinal ortega as well as cubans i met while i was there independents private entrepreneurs and independent media. this has galvanized them, as well. they are encourage would by the fact that the pope's continuing involvement and the vaticans continuing involvement as a facilitator and to shextent as a guarantor gives them greater hope that compliance will assured. >> i will close with this. i think that is critical. i'm going to write a letter to pope francis thanking him for his leadership on this, but he's got to stay involved. i don't think there's any doubt we're going to have problems with the government there. there's just like we do at my friend pointed out in china. of course, this isn't going to change everything overnight. his involvement calling it the

way he sees it and being 16 sheer and honest about what is happening is going to help us move forward. i just want to thank you both of you very much and i would conclude. >> thank you. senator. >> thank you. thanks for having this hearing. chairman and i agree on a lot of things in the senate. we even agree on taste in ties, apparently but we do disagree on this subject. one of the first pieces of legislation i introduced 14 years ago when i entered the house of representatives was legislation to lift the travel ban. i've always felt that we ought to have more americans traveling to cuba, not fewer. cuban american families in particular ought to be able to visit family members. i was pleased to see the president loosen those restrictions first of all. it's not an acknowledgment that things are better in terms of human rights in cuba or anymore

democracy. it's a recognition that as was said in your testimony that we hope that we can improve the situation. following on that, miss jacobsen you mentioned in your testimony that you differentiate between normization of relations and diplomatic relations. can up expand on that briefly. >> certainly senator. full normalization will take place for years and has to include a range of issues including the issue of claims, exappropriations and that was made very clear to the cuban government. the reestablishment of diplomatic releases is a first step that in process in the nearer term, and enables us to have the conversations that can get us to a full normalization and so those two things i think really have to be understood, because sometimes people talk about normalization and things

that they may demand in normalization which is a process in the step. >> there is some confusion about what we have in cuba right now. can you describe our mission in cuba as it stands, what facilities we have, number of personnel. >> of course. >> i think a lot of people would be surprised to know what a presence we have had for a while. >> right. we have a u.s. interest section under the protection of the swiss and have been since 1977. the building is the same one that we had as an embassy. we have about 360 people working in that interest section of whom over about 70, 60 something are americans. many a number of agencies are in that building, one of the larger diplomatic presences in havana. they do extraordinary work processing refugee to say come to the united states, obviously

visa processing. protection of americans who travel there support for the emerging private sect tore in cuba so it's as much of a range of activity that you can do within cuba today. >> you are listening to the continuing coverage of the fortune relation subcommittee on normalizing relations with cuba. with me in studio, our expert on all things cuban. what is fascinating about this is that this debate knows know political boundaries. you have a democratic, robert menendez from new jersey making the argument not to normalize sitting next to barbara boxer saying that he has it all wrong. >> on the other side, you have jeff flake from arizona who is a staunch republican but from a libertarian wing of the party all for americans to engage, and

travel and in support of obama's policy. there is a miss perception that the republicans are against the opening and the democrats are for it, but it's more complicated than that and we can see that with this hearing. >> as we watch this unfold, the question that has to be asked is at one point when this hearing was first scheduled, it was thought to be this would be marco rubes national coming out party and he was going to be seen as the man championing the cause of the dissident community in florida against normalized relation witness cuba saying that barack obama overstepped his bounds on this issue. is the horse out of the barn and has the public already accept that had there will be normalized relations or do you think there still is political debate outside of washington? >> i think the debate is mostly washington and maybe part of miami. i think that what we're seeing unfold here is not really marco rubio waving a big stick but a

real debate, interrogation of the diplomats who have been behind this policy, but i think very wise and pointed answers pointed questions. i think it's going to be more interesting when the invited cuban disdentist speak and they're kind of on different sides of this issue, one supports it, the other critical of it. both are very intelligent brave cuban dissidents. one lives in miami the other in cuba and they're going to be speaking. we are going to see that among cuban dissidents, there's a diversity of opinion about this policy. >> one of the first groups that said they want to go into cuba are the telephone companies. there was no internet. there were no cell phones when the cuban revolution was launched and fidel castro rose to power. >> right. >> is it possible now that you can turn back the clock now that you're opening those types

of doors where information is not something that can be stemmed by shutting down a newspaper or radio station, it is now in the air waivers, it is in the ether space. >> what i say about the internet and a suppressive society it will thank the games. internet doesn't choose a winner. it gives people more power to share information or get information from outside but if you look at china it has a firm grip on control political control in its country and china, the government of the china, but there's open internet. china has a different approach instead of cuba. they have full internet, but great vigilance over the internet. they have private companies that run the internet in china but they have to follow chinese law and enforce censorship. cuba may open up to u.s. telecom and greater internet access, but attempt to really control that,

and kind of convert the internet into cuba's authoritarian image and control the internet. >> it was cell braided saying this is giving the people their voice, but if change does not happen quick enough in cuba, will there be a backlash against forces coming in saying things are not normal, but you are doing better. >> you had real revolutions in the arab countries and there was this backlash against all this hope. what's risky in cuba is a fabulous blog post analyzed this saying what are the cubans going to do with their rising hopes? what she finds walking the streets in cuba is everybody has great expectations, but they are going to have to be lowered to the reality because the reality

is going to be very slow. both sides say that publicly, reacting to the reality check. >> the reality check is we are going to take a quick break. stay with us.

>> welcome back. i'm del walters in new york. we are going to take you back to washington d.c. to a senate subcommittee holding hearings right now on the normalization of relations between the united states and cuba. this is new jersey senator bob men endid he say who opposes that move. take a listen. >> since you are conducting a

review isn't it true that the castro regime provides sanctuary to joanne, on the f.b.i. list for murdering a new jersey state trooper. >> it is, sir. >> isn't it true that the castro regime is providing sanctuary to members of organization that the state department has named as foreign terrorist organizations? >> that has certainly been the case. >> isn't it true that the state department consider as foreign government providing sanctuary to a terrorist that has committed a terrorist in another country to be a supporter for international terrorism. >> certainly in the past, we have used that sanctuary as that has been clearly noted in our reports on cuba in our terrorist -- >> just to be moved beyond that, that is a standard you have used providing sanctuary to a terrorist. >> in the