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that graph you are looking at is the escalation in food stamp usage since 2006. so why does that matter? well the usda said 2000 active members got benefits in 2012. the average beneficiary gets about $1,400 a year. in that 104 million should provide food stamps for 75,000 active or former military and their families but public records only account for 2,000 recipients leading us to ask if more military families are

falling through the cracks than the limited available data reveals, and if they don't keep detailed records, how can they evaluate their system? joining us now is the director of research and policy at blue star families a u.s. army captain and graduate fellow at the university of texas, an air force veteran who has written on this topic and is skeptical about there being cause for alarm. and a military spouse who's husband is in active duty in the air force. welcome to all of you. debra, is the middle class way of life that people associate the military having provided for decades on its way out? >> i don't know that it's on its way out, but we see a big

differential between those who join the military as enlisted and those who join as officers. so your base salary for an e1 who is somebody just joining is about 20,000, and you see an officer coming in at about $40,000, so when you talk about these issues such as poverty and food stamps there is a big pay differential, so you can imagine somebody who is making $20,000, and has 2.5 children, that doesn't go very far, so you can see that -- that there are some struggles there. >> yeah indeed. you know susan, the numbers that we referenced getting into the show are incomplete at best. but they certainly indicate that more military families could be hovering arrange the poverty line. is there an untold story here? >> i think there definitely is i think the biggest problem is anybody receiving welfare in

general, usually feels a lot of shame and guilt. the fact that they are receiving it period is not something they want to share. so when it comes to the military, it definitely carries a higher amount of that. i know that we received them from about six months after he got here in tucson to about -- for about two and a half years continuing with that and the reason -- you know when we would go in to do any paperwork, anything like that. we were almost looked at to the point of why are you here? you should make enough money. and it was that way until they started to start counting our house. >> our community is having a back and forth here:

so brandon, conflicting numbers, we have $106 million in food stamps redeemed this year. and there is a number that says that in 2011 there were 5,000 families using food stamps and it has been reduced to 2,000. so is it getting worse for them is there more need? >> since 2006 we have seen the numbers quadruple from about 26 million, to now at about 104 million, in redeeming snap benefits. and this is reflecting the financial crisis of 2008 and the changing demographics of the force.

today's soldiers are coming in a little bit more experienced, more seasoned maybe with a spouse or partner, and mouths to feed. maybe the financial crisis was tough, and they are making a transition in their mid-to late 20s, whereas our prototypical young enlisted soldier is 18 to 19 years old right out of high school without a family. >> kevin you wrote an article, and you are skeptical of this being particularly problematic, why so? >> well we always talk about how the base pay is real low. and that's true. but typically military members are given things such as bah, this is money to pay for housing, for food and stuff like that. and when you take that into consideration, it actually

raises, you know what a military member would be making. >> susan does it raise it enough to make it easy to make ends meet? >> no. i have -- i don't have a problem sharing this because it's quite honestly public information that is easy to find. my house's base for housing is $1,052. since we reside on base we don't actually see any of that. the dod did implement a new system to pay excess electrical usage. so they are going to charge over or charge under based on their average that they picked up from checking houses and seeing what we should be using, and bas as a supplement to cover by husband getting fed since he is not eating at the chow hall.

and that's $357 a month. so you break it down i mean -- it's not really making enough of an impact. >> our community is chiming in and a lot of saying is it the military, the government the politics, the soldiers themselves overspending. chris says: debra who is it to blame? >> well i would just like to make a couple of points about what the last guest said. i think it's important to note that some of these benefits are there for a reason. they are for retention and recruitment. we want the best people in the

military and we want the best people to stay in the military. somebody mentioned healthcare. one of the reasons we have a good healthcare system in the military is because we need healthy service members. so that is why we have the healthcare system that we do. another guest mentioned bas that's -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> yes. those amounts are very low, and if you look at an average family with 2.5 kids, the usda puts out statistics that the average expenditure for food is about 8 to $900 per month. if you look at an e1 who is making $20,000, even with that bas and housing added in. if you are spending 8 to $900 a month, which is on the low end, you don't have a lot left over. >> the dod's spokesperson

couldn't appear on the show but gave us a statement which reads in part: and i should add that my producer just told me he was talking to her and added starting in january of this year they have started keeping track of who is using these food stamp benefits at the commissary. so that will be interesting to check that a year from now. coming up putting food on the table isn't the only challenge facing military families. military spouses are unemployed at a rate nearly four times the national average.

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the tough questions and you'll get the inside story. these are straight forward conversations. no agenda, just hard hitting debate on the issues that matter to you. >> ray suarez hosts "inside story". weeknights at 11:30 eastern. only on al jazeera america. ♪ my name is elliott akerman, i'm a former military officer, and author and i'm in "the stream." welcome back. we're talking about financial struggles for military families. and before the break i promised to look at employment for spouses. 30%. that is the number that is unemployed. that is way beyond the national average. what impact does that have on a family's financial stability? >> it's a multifaceted problem,

definitely. i think the biggest problem that we face specifically is child care. i know that's a common concern. you know i have about six years of retail experience after that management and i have never made over $8.25 an hour so if i was to take that full-time, i would actually pay more out of pocket to work 40 hours a week including child care than i would to just stay at home. it's hard to continue post secondary education, because you never know if you are going to move. schools are -- they change how they transfer credits, if it's actually going to be worth anything, you may have to repeat classes. >> military families move around a lot, is that something that employers shy away from too? >> definitely. we have been here for four

years, which is fairly uncommon but even i have trouble, you know putting in many applications just to bring in a little bit of extra money. the first thing they address is the schedule. you know i say if he changes his schedule if he has to work nights or evenings there's nothing i can do about that. i have no precedence over his schedule. >> susan our community is echoing many of your sentiments. ana maria says: and we have chelsea who gave a great video comment.

>> the financial struggle i face as a military spouse is uncertainty. it's hard for me to plan for the future when my current situation is not permanent. >> debbie you are a military spouse talk about these unique challenges. >> what you have on social media is exactly what we find every year on our survey. boost our families does a survey every year of military families. last year we had about 5100 responds and they echo exactly what you are saying here uncertainty in military life child care moves, these are all the things that impact spouse employment which is a huge -- has a huge financial impact on military families especially if you are at the low end of these pay grades. if your spouse is not employed and you talked about the 30% unemployment rate among military spouses, that compares to about

an 8% unemployment rate among normal civilians as a whole. so you know, it's a much higher rate and, you know, that has an impact on what families if in their pocketbooks. >> military families have more than $10,000 in debt is 27%, compared to 16% in the regular population. is this an issue of financial ill illiteracy, or having one spouse working? to what do you attribute this? >> i think you can definitely -- we're kind of hitting the nail on the head. in this day and age you do need both spouses working. you can't really depend on one income anymore. and this is in the civil world also. so i -- i can definitely see

how, you know, the moving around would, you know, make it harder for spouses to find jobs so you don't have that second income readily available. but, you know, this is -- this isn't just military this is -- the civilian world too. as far as debt goes i know it is real easy to get loans in the military because the banks know that you have that steady income. if you have a four-year contract you know, they know that you are making this much you know for, you know, a set amount of time. so it's real easy for them to give out loans. whatever i wanted -- like i wanted a car loan and they were real quick to give that to me. so that could be part of the problem. >> lisa if i may jump in for a moment and echo kevin's sentiment here part of the problem with debt is that some of this money is too available to service members in terms of

pred -- predatory lending. there are predatory lenders who seek out the military. and young service members who are looking to purchase a car or something of the sort and they'll record all of the service members information beyond the personal but the professional. so they will look to that chain of command to leverage pressure on the service member if he or she isn't paying up on time. and it's a real problem. >> brandon a lot of our community is chiming in about the proposed defense spending bill: and then we have one more:

and debbie i know you wanted to talk about this. the proposed spending budget. what effect will it have on military families? >> one of the things that is happening now, there is always a lot of uncertainty in military life and people become accustom to that but right now you have a lot of things changing at once, and all of them having financial implications so you have potential changes in the commissary benefit -- >> a billion dollars potential change. >> yes. yes. they are actually changes now. now that the budget has been approved. you have changes in healthcare expenses. you have changes in housing allowance, and all of those things are basically -- add up and are essentially money out of people's pockets. >> it changes their buying power as well. >> it does. >> coming up that defense

spending bill looks to cut a sizable number of troops on active duty. but the financial challenges don't end when they take off that uniform. we'll talk about that when we come back. ♪

>> there's more to financial news than the ups and downs of the dow. for instance, could striking workers in greece delay your retirement? i'm here to make the connections to your money real. >> "real money with ali velshi". tonight at 10:30 eastern. only on al jazeera america. ♪ welcome back. we're talking about the myriad of challenges financially that military families face. and we mentioned before the break that those challenges don't end when these folks leave the armed services. >> yeah, i'm learning a lot. our community is chiming in:

and then we got this one that is sobering: and susan i want to go to you. your husband eventually be transition out of the military. what are some of the unique challenges that he has to look forward to? >> the uncertainty, specifically, that was brought up earlier, we always have some uncertainty, but especially with the budget you know, healthcare changing all of those things have really made us think about it and it's -- you know what he does -- he's a jet engine mechanic that is in pretty high demand especially with the experience he has with the licensing and all of that especially where we're from back

home in kansas and even with all of that we put feelers out there, just to see what he could find even with all of that there were still many times where they had no openings regardless. so it was very, you know that's pretty much what made our decision we don't really have a decision at this point other than to stay in. >> brandon early on in the show susan alluded to this idea that it was difficult for members of the military to ask for help because they are having to go to their co and it can feel shameful, and you can feel compromised by doing that. so even though you have these programs available to folks in the military for assistance do you find that it is harder for them maybe to seek you out and get that help? >> i think it often can be shameful for some of these soldiers and their families. and like any family who is having financial trouble, the topic is often delicate and

stressful, just within the family so to bare your financial issues to a chain of command and ask for help can be daunting and stigma tiezing which is unfortunate. we do everything we can to protect the soldiers in need from predatory lenders, and the crippling financial debt but the transition is so difficult and so important. my wife is a veteran. working with the va to get gi bill benefits and health care benefits and getting the resume ready, and getting out to job fairs, you know, it can be overwhelming. >> waj and i were talking about this yesterday, we both feel like we have been seeing more commercials and hearing more radio spots with this corporate backing of veterans. focusing on their vast array of

ability in the work force. are you noticing more of that as well? and is it making any sort of a difference? >> yeah i think a lot of companies are recognizing the value of hiring veterans and the same is true of military spouses. there is also a movement to hire military spouses. and when service members are in the military they learn leadership skills. they learn how to make decisions without all of the information that they need. they learn team work. these are all skills that are assets in the business environment, and so i think a companies are starting to see that and starting to see the value of hiring veterans, and at the same time military spouses bring some of those things to the workplace as well. usaa is a great example. their whole mission is focused on the military family but they also have a hiring mission, they hire veterans and military

spouses, and they are, i would say, a best practice in that. >> susan we have about a minute left in the show. i want you to give us your thoughts on what it is going to take to bring the stability of middle class back to the military. what needs to happen? >> i think the biggest thing that needs to be recognized is the majority of the public standings behind the military. i think there are some people that don't. the biggest thing i could say to anybody really is this isn't a normal career or a normal life and we're okay with that. we're okay with the every day sacrifices. all we ask is that things aren't taken away to make it much harder for us to live. i spending maybe $600 a month in goc groceries, and we have three children and a fourth on the

way. >> all right. thank you all for your discussion. waj and i will see you online. ♪ shia muslims attacked while praying at a mosque in northwestern pakistan. ♪ hello this is al jazeera live from doha i'm adrian finighan also on the program, boko haram fighters carry out a first deadly attack in chad. a car bomb kills ten in damascus, as the u.n. says that president assad must be part of any solution to end syria's war. and we meet the rescue divers of bangladesh who risk their live tosser