tv News Al Jazeera February 16, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm EST
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hello, everybody, this is al jazeera america. i'm david shuster in new york. just ahead . . . targeting isil egypt is conducting air strikes in libya, after 21 egyptian christians there were beheaded. divided in chicago, a leading muslim cleric is under investigation after allegations of sex abuse. river on fire. in west virginia an oil train derailed today setting off explosions and sparking
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environmental fears. ing onning car nomination on edward snowden. we will talk to one of the film's journalists. and the illusionist, a top animator behind game of thrones reveals how the magic is made. ♪ we're going to begin this hour with that train derailment in west virginia. earlier this afternoon, a 109-car train, carrying highly flammable bakken crude oil derailed. it forced the evacuation of at least two west virginia towns. and the governor has now declared a state of emergency. at least one oil tanker fell into the river koreaing a
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burning oil slick and that has prompted state officials to cut off water treatment plants downstream. the fire had been burning for several hours, is it now under control? >> reporter: it is somewhat contained, but at this point the plan is to let at least some of those cars burn out as a way to take care of the contents. >> there have been conflicting reports about the number of people affected by possible water contamination. can you shed any light on what their situation is? >> yes, one of the two public water sup place potentially affected by this served the community of montgomery and surrounding communities. and that water system has about 2,000 customers. sit believed that cedar grove is
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somewhat smaller. we're not sure how much screwed-- much crude is in the water, but out of an abundance of precaution those plants have been shut down. and the focus now is getting water to the area starting with the hospital. >> any indication of what caused this incident? >> it's still being reviewed. we have some information. we have very terrible winter weather here today. heavy snowfall. we don't know if that is a factor. but it has impeded efforts to get resources to the area to help deal with the fire. >> lawrence communications director for west virginia's department of public safety. lawrence thank you. in the middle east one of america's strongest allies in the region has now joined the fight against isil. egyptian war planes bombed
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targets in libya, after forces that say they are affiliated with isil beheaded 21 egyptian citizens. their families had been waiting for news for a while now they wait for justice. >> reporter: the air strikes in eastern libya began at dawn. its war planes carried out dozens of attacks on training camps, after they posted a video on line showing the simultaneous beheadings of egyptian christians. the passions ran particularly strong in a town about 140 miles west of cairo, where familiar list of the 13 beheaded men had
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funerals. isil has now established affiliates in several areas including libya. >> you should remind everyone that the whole world is facing this criminal phenomenon of terrorism, that the whole world should cooperate together. it is incumbent upon all governments, particularly in the arab region to work together and to ensure that such vial acts will never be repeated. >> reporter: in egypt meanwhile, the tears flowed and the demands grow louder for egyptian president al-sisi to hit back hard. >> translator: we voted for him and came out to support him since the beginning.
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if he repeats the elections again and again and again, we will support him, but he has to avenge us. their blood will not be wasted. >> reporter: but egyptian analysts say al-sisis motive may be more complex. in denmark two men have been arrested for allegedly helping a gunman who carried out two deadly attacks. danish filmmaker was killed saturday at a cafe hosting a discussion on freedom of speech and a guard at the city's main synagogue was shot to death. the suspect died sunday in a shootout with police. the two men under arrest appear to have provided shelter to the gunmen and helped him get rid of a weapon. peter is denmark's
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ambassador to the united states and joins us from washington. ambassador ambassador, first of all the officials new about this purpose rate for in advance. why then was he allowed to leave jail a few weeks ago, and carry this out? >> i think that's a very good question that everybody is asking themselves but we have to remember that he is one of many people who have carried violent crime, but nobody had any expectation that he had actually been radicalized when he was in prison and therefore, posed a totally different threat than only being a violent criminal who was a member of a gang. >> i wonder if you can add any more information to what the prime minister said that this guy was acting on his own, when you have at least 110 danish citizens that have left to wage
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war in syria. >> i think we are quite certain, and the danish police and our intelligence services are quite certain that the perpetrator who committed the terrible acts in copenhagen did not have any connection with isil and did not travel to syria or any other place. so he has been known to the police and authorities for a long time and they have been following him, and i think they can say, certainly that that is the case and this is why my prime minister came out and said this. having said that of course it is something that poses a lot of concern in denmark when we have a very, very high somebody of young people going from denmark to participate in the war in iraq and syria on the side of isil. they go there. they come back and they have obviously some skills that pose a new threat to our society.
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>> and given those threats and the concerns that so many danish people have tonight, what is the government doing to monitor them and protect people who are feeling vulnerable? >> this is something we have been working on for a long time. we i think realized after the crisis ten years ago from now, that we suddenly have become targets for terrorists groups and therefore, we have had intensive work by our intelligence services and law enforcement in denmark in order to do what we can to protect ourselves. we -- we follow these persons who travel to these places. we tried to speak with the familiar list of young people to see if they can have an influence so they will not go. we try to put in place new measures so we draw passports and other things. and when they come back we try to reintegrate them into danish society.
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[ technical difficulties ] >> israel is your home we are preparing and calling for the mass integration from europe. and i would like to tell all jews wherever they are, israel is the home of every jew. >> he called for the absorption of mass immigration from europe. after lost month's attacks -- [ technical difficulties ] >> more than 8.5 thousand european jews moved to israel just last year.
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reaction to the attacks over the weekend? >> of course it was a very difficult situation, not only for jews but for all people here in denmark. >> how do you feel about prime minister netenyahu's call for jews to go to israel. >> i see it for his own election. and there is an election here in march in israel. but in denmark, we don't have any election. so we in denmark -- i think also i'm talking on behalf of
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the jews. they consider themselves as saints. and they consider it to be more important to have solved the problem here in denmark for other people in denmark. >> why do you think there has been a rise in anti-semitism in europe? >> there could be several reasons for that. about 20 years ago, we had a very mine cooperation between muslims and jews here in copenhagen, but it has been -- it hasn't been so -- so good here in the last -- these last years due to that combination of that all dane -- danish jews should be responsible for what is going on. and i would never say any muslim here in denmark should be responsible for any murders
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taking place in nigeria or other places. >> fin, former chairman of the jewish community in denmark and thank you so much for joining us on al jazeera america. in ukraine, a fragile ceasefire is already in danger. the truce took effect yesterday. but neither side is pulling back troops or weaponry from the front lines. and today government-backed forces exchanged new levels of artillery fire. >> reporter: the ceasefire may have an affect elsewhere, but around here the shelling has continued. this guards the main check point into the town. >> translator: the shelling does not stop and although putin said there is a ceasefire, it doesn't make any sense. you can see it for yourself at this position which we are securing. they said a column of tanks is
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coming but we don't know. i have to run, there is not much time left. >> reporter: a few miles away you can hear the shelling. they say they will keep fighting until they take the town an important strategic prize due to its rail station. >> translator: you can hear for yourself there's no ceasefire. it's all for the sake of television camera to show western ukraine that there is a ceasefire. but there is none. you can hear the fighting going on. >> reporter: the fights here is putting real pressure on the ceasefire. the ukrainian government says it will not withdraw the heavy weapons until it stops. that is meant to start on tuesday. it also rejected a separatists proposal to create a safe corridor for ukrainian withdrawal. one of the main architects of the deal admitted the latest fighting was of great concern. >> translator: it was always
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clear that much remains to be done and i have always said there are no guarantees. it was an extremely difficult path. >> reporter: in russia president putin met with his security cabinet. he made it clear he wanted debaltseve in separatists hands. some fear the fighting will continue until that happens. up next president obama's immigration reform is now under attack in federal court. we'll bring you the perspective of migrants and a u.s. farm. and allegations of sex crimes crimes crimes against a leading chicago amom.
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a u.s. federal court could rule as soon as tomorrow on whether president obama's executive actions on immigration is legal. this is the latest twist in the emotional roller coaster for those most affected by this issue. heidi zhou castro has a closer look. >> reporter: brownsville is right on the border that's the border fence. behind it is mexico and this community was ground zero for the immigration crisis that pored across this border into
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the united states this past year. the flow has significantly slowed but there's fear that illegal crossings will pick up again, due to the president's actions. bill calvin scans the horizon, watching for undocumented immigrants approaching his farmhouse, here 50 miles north of the texas, mexico border. >> the last three months i have had 15 of them within a mile of the house. i had five of them try to break the front door down. >> reporter: calvin says he has seen more migrants since president obama announced that some 4.9 million undocumented immigrants would qualify the ability to stay now a suit
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states that border states will suffer the cost of more illegal crossings, and the president exceeded his presidential authority. a judge will decide whether to block the action. >> this is the land of milk and honey over here. they come over because the minute they cross the border they are on easy street. >> reporter: raul lives in a mobile home and works six days a week waiting tables and playing music at a nightclub. he crossed the border illegally 20 years ago, and now lives with his family near dallas. two of his children are american citizens. >> we have a place to live and i'm happy with that. >> reporter: his wife and eldest daughter are also undocumented. they are looking forward to applying for the executive action. >> we pay taxes, we go with what the law say, you know?
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and we deserve to be here because we have our lives here. >> reporter: you don't think that people from the community, in mexico where you are from you don't think they'll see how you have benefited? how you will finally have papers? you don't think that might attract them to make the same journey? >> i don't think so because they know like ours -- like us our family knows we have been here 20 years and now finally something happened. >> reporter: calvin refrains unconvinced. he says the american taxpayer are giving them a free ride. there are people who have detections taken from their paycheck benefits they will never see because they don't qualify for social security so how are they robbing the system? >> they are benefiting.
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>> reporter: in which way? >> if something goes wrong, they get sick and they go to the hospital. they never pay the hospital $0.01. >> reporter: they say they do pay for private health insurance. >> i'm against the theory. my mother came from scotland. my mother did not come to the united states for years she was on a waiting list. all my life i heard that crime doesn't pay. now if you are illegal, that's a crime. you came over illegally, and crime does pay. >> reporter: the moment that either of you crossed the border, you earned the title of illegal in many people's view. do you ever regret that? >> no. i mean we know that. we know that we're illegal. >> reporter: and for that the silvas say they live with the
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fear that each journey out the door may end in a traffic stop and then deportation. they hope obama's executive action puts a stop to that fear. again, this ruling could come as early as tomorrow. that could put this executive action on hold. u.s. district judge andrew handen has been critical of domestic policy in two previous opinions but in both of those cases he ruled in favor of the federal government. whatever his decision in this case, david, this case will be appealed to the supreme court. >> heidi thanks for that. massachusetts and parts of rhode island are still digging out from heavy snowfall. those areas have hit record snow totals for the season. meanwhile a new storm system tonight is bringing dangerous icy conditions to parts of america's south. >> yes, we have ice coming down
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david, and it's coming down thick, accumulating anywhere from an inch to an inch and a half of ice. the ice storm warning currently focused in central tennessee. we'll see the highest amounts of accumulations in these spotings. knoxville will be a little bit to the north, but still some risks of icing. and then freezing rain for south carolina. so our greats threat of ice coming from this storm is going to focus across parts of virginia, and we're really watching north carolina. you can see the storm already pushing snow in washington, d.c. where our higher snow accumulations are going to happen. across baltimore, you'll see the snow developing in parts of new york city, but we'll have lessen amounts the farther north we get. because the ultimate track is
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out to the ocean. and we're going to get a mix of rain and snow in the south, further to the north around d.c. this is where the morning commute will be awfully dangerous. even though the storm is wrapping up for the southeast, we still have rapidly cooling temperatures dropping below freezing even around atlanta, we could have some icy roadways get going for the first part of the workweek. >> rebecca thank you, we appreciate it. allegations against a high ranking muslim cleric are creating a spate in the community.
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just ahead. scandal, a top muslim cleric in chicago is facing claims he sexually aused children. flight rules the federal government has a new proposal to help guide drones. snowed d snoweden's story. plus the real wizards behind game of thrones. we will introduce you to the computer artist creating a digital fantasy world. and coming up al jazeera america has learned that a prominent american muslim leader has been taken into custody following allegations of sexual assault. but first a russian cyber security firm has uncovered what could be the largest bank heist in history.
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hackers have penetrated banks in 30 countries, and stolen nearly $1 billion. the cyber criminals used malware and other methods to gain access to the bank systems, and then used the knowledge to wire out money. the federal aviation administration is proposing new rules on using drone aircraft. the obama administration is ordering federal agencies to disclose where their drones are being used in the united states. libby casey reports. >> reporter: david, it's getting easier and cheaper to get your hands on a drone, and a growing number of companies are eager to explore their use for commercial purposes. to deliver is pizza, to photograph your house from the air to help it sell in the real
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estate market. regulators have been working on these proposed rules for years. the head of the faa saying: the rules would affect commercially operated drones weighing up to 55 pounds. users would have to earn a certificate, a type of drone pilot license. the rules would ban flying at night or near airports. drones would have to stay below 500 people and under 5 miles per hour. the proposals pose a challenge to companies like amazon who want to use drones to deliver packages away from the direct line of sight of the remote pilots. >> so for amazon's purposes this
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isn't good enough for them to execute that business model or theirs. todd curtis says government regulators are trying to catch up to a field that is quickly evolving. >> the capabilities of modern drones are so far beyond what the faa or anyone else could have anticipated five years ago, that i'm not surprised that policy hasn't caught up with technology. >> president obama giving federal agencies one year to publicly explain their policies on drones revealing where they fly them and what they do with the information collected. the clock starts ticking on that now, but the changes to faa guidelines are open to public comment for 60 days and then experts say they will probably take at least a year or two to become final. until these new regulations are approved david, the current practice of companies applying
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for waivers will still be in effect. now these new proposals just relate to the commercial drone market. it doesn't even touch personal use or hobby use, and that's its own increasingly complicated field. david? tonight al jazeera america has learned that a prominent american muslim leader has been taken into custody following allegations of sexual assault. several women are coming forward alleging decades of sexual abuse. they plan to file a lawsuit tomorrow. lisa stark is in chicago with this broadcast exclusive. >> david that's correct. he talked to his attorney and he told us that he is in police custody in illinois. the police there would only tell us that the investigation is
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ongoing. this is really a stunning turn of events for a man who was an acclaimed muslim leader. he now faces investigations for allegations of child abuse. we talked to two of his alleged victims. they have asked us to keep their identities secret. but here is their story and a look at the allegations against the cleric. >> i thought you know what this is a revered man, maybe what he is saying and doing is because he loves me. >> reporter: sandy, that's what she asked us to call her, says she was only 10 or 11 when this man abused her. among south asian muslims he is a renounce islamic scholar, the founder of a nationally known school. it's a border and day school for students age 10 to 17. can you talk at all about what happened.
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>> after i went several times, he started touching my hands, telling me where to put my fingers, and then he started moving my scarf and like started kissing me on my cheeks and stuff. and from there he started touching my breasts. >> reporter: the alleged abuse took place in a private home. this woman who asked us to call her amber, says she too was abused while a preteen. >> we were reading the koran reading. and it shifted to the bed where he would take my hand and make me touch his private part and i knew at that point it was wrong and disgusting. >> reporter: but in their devout muslim community, they never breathed a word.
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>> this is sota -- so taboo. everything is behind closed door. >> reporter: do you feel he abused his power? >> absolutely. >> yes, he did. he knew exactly what he was doing. >> reporter: they say that was more than 30 years ago, and they finally talking now, because of a recent allegation by a woman in her early 20s who worked at the school. >> reporter: this chicago attorney says he will file a civil lawsuit tuesday on behalf of the alleged victims? >> these allegations cover four decades. starting in the 1980s, and as recently as april of 2014 when the adult 23-year-old secretary at iie was abused by him. >> reporter: according to mr. denny, when those latest accusations came to light, a
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local muslim scholar arranged a meeting with the victim and her mother. he reportedly signed a document that states that quote, salem has at mitted to his actions. the police have opened a criminal investigation. there are reports that he had left the country for his native india. we went to his school hoping to get some answers. excuse me? >> there's nobody here. >> reporter: well there is somebody here because you are talking to me. the woman promised to call somebody for us. and in a few minutes his oldest son drove up. can you make any statement to us -- >> no sorry. >> reporter: why not? >> i'm not able. >> reporter: is your father -- where is your father? >> i don't know. >> reporter: is he in the country? >> yeah. >> reporter: he is in the
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country? >> yeah. >> reporter: and what is your responses to the charges. >> i'm not talking anymore. sorry. >> reporter: he drove off, and we were told to leave. they have asked us to leave or they are going to call the police. they asked us to call his attorney who told us that he and the school are conducting an internal investigation, and that quote, i have found nothing to substantiation that there were improprieties. and he says i have not seen any documents, and those making the accusations, have quote not been very forthcoming. the allegations against him rocked chicago's islamic community, and the man who heads the council launched his own investigation. >> during our own conversations with other people we came across that this is not an isolated incident. that there were other incident
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that have happened prior to this which was not publicized. >> reporter: this group of women is offering support to the alleged victims, and working to open a dialogue about sexual health and sexual abuse in the muslim community. >> has been a lot of anger and devastation around it and sort of this -- this urgency to do something about this and to start having these open conversations. >> reporter: conversations that these women say are critical to protecting young women now and in the future. >> as far as the community, i want them to know that there should be a zero tolerance policy. yes, we are muslims. but just because we're muslims doesn't make us not immune to this kind of activity. >> reporter: now the alleged victims told us by the way that they were each abused for about five or six months at that young
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age until they were able to figure out how to not be alone in a room with him. they get no satisfaction about the fact that this has not now come out into the public, but they are hoping he will be held accountable. david? >> did the victims feel a fear that they may be ostracized in some parts of the muslim community in chicago? >> reporter: well clearly, there is a lot of fear about being ostracized and this is one of the reasons these alleged charges and accusations were held so privately for so many years. obviously they still wanted their identities protected, but there are many active women in this community who feel it is very important to get this information out, and it's really an honor that they are taking this on themselves to make sure this information gets out and
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other women are protected. >> after talking with these women, i wonder if you can put in context how important this is to the muslim community in the midwest. >> reporter: it is certainly significant for a segment of the muslim community. those from east asia. it's really considered one of two key schools in that part of the muslim faith in the united states and this man was apparently renounce really throughout the united states even throughout the world. he has been a very esteemed leader here. so people were really truly shocked when these allegations first surfaced. >> any indications as to what the alleged victims will want in this lawsuit that they are filing? >> reporter: this is a civil suit. it's expected to be filed tomorrow. there may be -- five plaintiffs we're told. the attorney says it will be
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four women, and also possibly one boy, according to the attorney who -- or he's a man now, but alleges when he was a boy, he was abused by someone else another staffer at the school. this lawsuit is asking for at least the minimum, $50,000 per plaintiff. >> lisa stark reporting. thank you. the oscar documentary about edward snowden is our next story. john asked greenwald what he hopes the film will accomplish. >> i think the idea behind the film is to convey what we actually experienced and saw and -- and navigated when we
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went to hong kong to meet the source who we didn't previously know. and i think one of the most important parts of the film is it lets the viewer see edward snowden in action in order to make up their own minds. so much as been said about edward snowden but this really lets the viewer see for themselves and decide what it is that they think about his actions. >> my name is edward snowden, i go by ed. >> how powerful was it that day to sit in that room? >> it was extraordinarily powerful. for one thing, i think that we had an expectation both the director of the film and i had that he was going to be much much older than he was, and to see a young man of 29 years old, make a decision of this magnitude to knowingly unravel his entire life as an act of conscious, and to be so calm and convicted about it was really
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kind of stunning. >> i'm not afraid of you. you are not going to bully me into silence like everybody else. >> i think it scares the hell out of people when they hear what you uncovered? was that what you intended to do? >> i don't think so no. i think what we intended to do was to show the facts that we were able to obtain as they were presented to us by our source. and those facts are just frightening. i mean it is alarming when you realize that the government in complete secrecy has decided to build a system to collect the entire internet collect records of all of our community activities browsing histories, chats, and the like and it is alarming and it's almost impossible to show this material without it being frightening, because i think intrinsic to what it is is something that is quite dangerous. >> i assume edward snowden has seen it? >> he has. >> what is he reaction?
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>> he has talked in the past about the fact that it is a little bit difficult to watch, because those days in hong kong were incredibly stressful. and i think he feels he relives the stress every time he watches it. the first part of the film shows the context that lead up to what he did and why he did it about other forms of surveillance that had been uncovered and then the latter part is the fallout. and i think he feels like it is an important contribution to the debate he hoped to trigger. >> are you getting more nervous? >> um -- i mean no. when somebody like busts in the door suddenly i'll get nervous, but until they do -- >> what do you think you and edward snowden have done to change the debate regarding
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privacy? >> i think for the first time as the result of the revelations there have been debates all over the world about the danger of surveillance the value of privacy, journalists, we have transformed the pressures put on large tech companies to demonstrate to their users that they are serious about protecting privacy, and that has made them encrypt their services in a way that makes it much more difficult for governments to invade those privacyies, and i think we have made people aware of the extent their privacy is being compromised. and millions of people are using encryption and that makes it much harder to engage in mass surveillance. >> what is edward snowden's life like today? >> it's fairly normal. you know for someone who is in
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the position that he's in. one of the things the filmer reveals is his long time girlfriend lindsay mills moved to russia and they are living together. he has talked about the fact that he is busier now than he has ever been before. he makes speeches makes appearances, so i think he -- you know the think i think that is most significant about edward snowden is he is season who gets to put his head on his pillow every night with a very clean conscious about the actions he took. >> glenn greenwald, it's good to have you on the show. >> thank you. citizen four is playing in select cities and is scheduled to debut on hbo a week from tonight. coming up, he has created half a dozen worlds he will introduce
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♪ it's my party, and i'll cry if i want to cry if i want too ♪ >> the unique voice of singer leslie gore who's passing we learned of earlier today. her follow ups, also topped the charts. gore lived here in new york and was battling cancer. leslie gore dead at the age of 68. new york's time square is one of the world's most popular tourist attractions. it's a stunning turn around for an area once considered seedy and dangerous. >> reporter: it's known as the cross roads of the world, and
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it's not hard to understand why. on a busy day almost half a million people pass through time square. >> it's iconic. i love everyone here. >> i want to come experience what new york is all about. what better place than to see where the city never sleeps. >> reporter: all of this foot traffic is great for retailers who spend top dollar to have billboards and stores in the area but not so much for those who live and work here. a recent survey found that one in four were dissatisfied with the overcrowding, and the presence of costume characters. >> a lot of people don't know how to work, don't know that walking is a mode of transportation for all of us here in new york so i find myself walking on the street whenever possible. >> reporter: some streets have been closed to traffic, but the move designed to make more room for pedestrians, only seems to have attracted more of them. >> definitely ever since they
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finished construction and making it more pedestrian friendly it's gotten more crowded and more costume characters. >> reporter: the city now wants to regulate people who dress up as cartoon characters and pose for pictures with tourists after some were caught harassing the public. but even though time square is still more family friendly than it was in the 70s and 80s it took tax incentives with a concerted effort by city and state officials to clean up the area and fill new skyscrapers with tennants. the challenge now is to hold on to them with some major tenants moving out. >> there are so many more people here. and we have got to make sure we stay fresh, and we keep taking care of the customer. >> reporter: it looks like the
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tourists are here to stay and as long as they don't block the sidewalk it's hoped the businesses will remain too. now to a hidden danger left behind after decades of fighting in senegal. stephanie sy is here with the story. >> good to see you david. it's a story that is off of most people's radar. we're talking about 386 square miles of mostly farm land booby trapped with mines. it's what is left from 30 years of conflict. nobody knows how many remain hidden. and funding cuts mean there is nobody working to clear these mines. coming up the polite of the farnlers and we'll speak to some of the victims. turning fantasy to reality, that's the marching order for ed
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bruce, the special effects artist behind the game of thrones. >> i only want what happens on a film or a tv show a director has an idea. and more often than not, whether it's shooting constraints or it's something that doesn't exist. he or she relies on people with visual effects to add that component. and most of the time we would extend the environment, add more buildings, put a hillside in the background. and then of course the big vision is the things like the creatures and the characters and the sci-fis, but it's -- it really is all about the director's vision and we're at the stage now where visual effects can almost do anything. i'm on set as a supervisor and i bring along my coordinators that help me collect everything
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about the shooting environment, so that we can then go back to the studio and recreate that world digitally. sometimes when you have green screen stage or blue screen stage, it really is bad, and we have to put markers up to represent. you need eye lines or things. but most of the time you are shooting on location so you are either outside on the streets or in the exterior environment, be it's a full environment. it can be very difficult, depending on the components and more often than not, people only see the finished results, and sometimes when we show these little breakdowns it shows the layers of work that we put into it. the tent scene was from game one of game of thrones. and when we're on set, one
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challenge is how they spread their budget. it is great to add new, because the director's vision is a big [ inaudible ] prebattle and wanted 10,000 tents and 10,000 soldiers, and so forth. we knew we had to replicate them. what is really great, when you see a shot that maybe takes three or four months to develop, all in its increments and it all comes together and it looks absolutely fantastic, you feel incredibly proud of your achievement. for me one of the big films was jurassic park where the viewer is taken on a narrative, a story that would be very difficult to tell or really experience or to believe until visual effects came along. this is an art, and it is full of artists and very talented people and what tends to happen is people look at it because it's on computers, and there's that disconnect from having a
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