process carefully and with caution and three people have bright futures tempered with expectations of what might happen in the months ahead, i'm in brandon, florida. more news on our website, al jazeera.com. next. hello, i'm ray suarez. the clock is ticking down to the hour when the department of homeland security runs out of money. tens of thousands of federal employees working in a wide range of security agencies will either by forced to work without pay or told not to work at all. an all-republican showdown is pushing the agency to the brink, with the help of a shove from the democrats, who don't seem particularly interested in helping the g.o.p. walk back from the ledge they climbed out of. we'll help you dissect

the policy, politics and brinksmanship and running a department with no aprop reeted money. it's "inside story". it all seems like such a long time ago. the president announced he was going to allow certain undocumented immigrants to head to the back of the line for deportation using give authority. the republicans said basically that you can't do that, but to make sure the policy couldn't go in effect, republicans funded the department of hopeland security -- homeland security temporarily saying if the president don't back off, they won't fund dhs. republicans took control of both

houses of congress. the day drew near, the house passed money. without funding for the programme, the senate couldn't do the same because majority leader mitch mcconnell couldn't get the 60 votes. here we are. >> we passed a bill to fund the department of homeland security six weeks ago, six weeks ago. time for the senate to act. >> so the speaker of the house is sticking to the original bill, funding dhs without action. the majority leader of the senate can't pass the bill and is trying to split the initiatives into separate bills, one denying funding for the president's policy, one funding homeland security. if he does that, these not sure the house will go along. >> it's great to see the democrats bring an end to the filibuster, once the measure is complete the senate will

consider sensible legislation from senator cole ins. her bill is simply. protecting the department from overreach, described by law. >> mitch mcconnell agrees on one thing - it's the democrats fault. it remains to be seen whether the public sees it that way. if the department of homeland security runs out of money. joining us to discuss the political peril and the real-life prospect of a shutdown of the agency is john fury, republican strategist at the consulting firm quinn gillespie and brad miller, former u.s. representative from paul mcfarland's 13th distribute and a senior fellow at the roosevelt institute. how does this happen, you were an advisor for the speaker.

you spoke with him in public, are these gamed out in advance before leadership embarks on a legislative tactic. >> he had not talked to o'con 'em. the leaders want plausible deny ability. the differences between the house and the cannesate were skinned by the founders to be hard to overcome. sometimes they are, when it should be a no-brainer, which is keeping the dhs open. everyone agrees closing the dhs is a stupid idea when lots of things are going on in the world. some republicans may want to get to the edge and ultimately will keep the department open. >> has a member, you were in the house during sequestration. when the leadership would set in place certain deadlines by which

things had to happen, didn't we go through that enough times to work. >> it has kind of worked so far. the question to john, how did it happen, pretty much the same way as last time, and the time before that and the time before that. there's a commitment by probably the majority of republicans to use any bill that has to be passed as extortion for something that the president doesn't want it democrat in the senate could kill it. it's no way to govern the country. the prospect after the terror attacks and other incidents and threats of more in the united states, to shut down homeland security seems very odd to most americans, and is doesn't seem like the way to govern the

country, it doesn't look the way a mature democracy works. you talk about plausible deniability. couldn't you make a case for holding your nose, saying to the public "we hate this thing", the president's action on deportation, and not fool around with not funding dhs. >> to be clear, i think dhs will be funded. you'll never get the paper down two weeks before. this is how congress worked as long as i know it. the president made a decision on executive order which is un popular with the public base, and they are going through extraordinary measures to show discomfort. i don't think using the process in a partisan way works. you want to find bipartisan solutions to this. put the democrats on the spot

and build up a case to be made to repeal the order, not do it in a short circuit way, in a way that conservatives will do it. you have the judiciary to eliminate this. this is not the right way to do it. sometimes the leadership has to demonstrate that they are at one with the followership. this is a way to do that. >> you heard brad miller talking about the outcome and you talked about how much they hate this thing. can't they see instead of painting the president. >> a corner, he seems to have painted them into one. >> i think mitch mcconnell when elected did say we are not going to have a shut down. he understands this is not a smart process, and anybody who lived, the government shutdown, understands that there are going

to be republican casualties to this, if there is a shut down. i don't think there is. it's a dumb policy, and a dumb way to make law. >> you were elected by a red state five teems and understand the vagaries and playing to the folk at home. poll after poll says many are ready to see comprehension reform. the people that we talk about who hate this seem not to have figured out a way to make it happen. >> that's why the issue is doubly difficult for the republicans. the tactic of holding dhs and terrorism funding hostage, and immigration problems, it is a legitimate public policy issue. there's a faction of the party, much of the republican because, that is vehemently anti-immigrant.

vehemently nativeness, and can't talk about it in a way that does not offend latinos, south asians and lots of other folks who become democrats because they hear what republicans say and think they don't like me. they don't like my kind. that's a problem for the republicans, and they can't do anything about it. when the subject of immigration comes up. you see steve king on television talking about young latinos with calves the side of cantaloupes . all the folks from the far right talking about immigration in an offensive way. not in want on detail but in a way that is offensive to latinos and every other immigrant group.

democrat. >> i didn't particularly love the bill, i thought it was a good start. i thought republicans, if they want to be competitive, they have to do something about the broken immigrationcm and have to communicate to a segment of the population that is growing and is influential. if the republicans want to learn anything. they need to learn from the example in california. when pete wilson decided to go after voters, it's bad policy. if you want to get the economy going, if you want to get wages going, you have to get the people in the shadows, get them legalized and give them protection. it's better for economic growth and the country and security. we need to do reform. if they want to be competitive in presidential elections.

>> can i give you the rest of my time. >> i think that's right. i think most americans - you know, there are a lot of things about immigration, even if it doesn't provoke, among those that don't provoke a native's response that is troubling. the idea that anyone could violate a law and benefit from it, everyone recognises it that where there is a significant disparity in standard of living there'll be a problem or issue about immigration. the way they talk about it, much of the republican base talks about it is in a way that is not, as i said before, a policy discussion. it is overtly nativist. when you here steve king talking about young boys that are drug mules. that's offensive, and to latinos.

when they hear it, it's hard for them to think this is a policy difference, and it's not the case that a lot of republicans don't like them. >> before going to a break, do they risk, is there someone in the room and pipes up when they figure this out saying we are taking a chaps, where are the security guys. if we play around with going to the border... >> yes, you see pete king and other members, they are upset that some people are talking about having dhs closed. they know if dhs closes, and something happens, republicans are blame. there's plenty of blame to go around. i think republicans have a great

risk, and many pipe up and say it's stupid. you can be against an executive order. i think it was a bad way to make policy. i think what he said when he did not have the authority is right. i think we need comprehensive reform and keep the dhs open. >> we'll have more inside story after a short break. into when we return, a look at solutions, getting everything you want. when a federal court judge put the brakes on deportation, kicking it to the fifth circuit and a future appeal. it seems circumstances sailed in. when opportunity knocked. they didn't answer. why not? that and more in a moment. stay with us. it's "inside story".

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>> i have to be optimistic for our people, for the people up here on this stage with me. and so i do believe that congress will come together and finally fund our department. as i said a moment ago, it's not just a matter of funding our department, but the important and heroic work of people like the people we see on the stage. >> welcome back to "inside story". i'm ray suarez, that's secretary of homeland security expressing optimism. the department of homeland security is massive. it has 240,000 employees, none would be paid for now if the funding runs outside. 33,000 would be fur lowed. everyone else would be deemed to work if essential. we look at the house of

representatives and the senate hoping to stop president obama's action on deportation that passed temporary matters for the department of homeland security. we are on the verge of ths running out of money, the president is not withdrawing the policy, demanding a clean bill. speaker john boehner says his chamber has done the work, passing the bill. and the senator is unable to pass a bill that will fund the agency and pass in his senate. john fury is with me, as is brad miller 5-term congressman in carolina, john, didn't it look like the cavalry coming in when the federal district court judge in the broader district of texas said sorry, stop this in its tracks. can't do it. couldn't congress have said this is in the court, let's fund

homeland security. seems like a nice exit ramp, that we can drive off and get away from the traffic jam. congress is a big ship. it takes a long time for it to move from its forward momentum, which is to go towards the crisis, which was almost inevitable given what happened last year, where there was a big, big legislation and all the preparation bills, and except for the dhs part, there was a lot of animosity chords the leadership then. you almost had to have a come to jesus moment, where they almost had to get to a situation where they had the crisis to get everyone to express their anger. the other part of this is there's an education process,

and a bunch of new members that didn't work with the senate. unless you go through the process of being frustrated by the senate, you don't understand how it goes. there's an education process. >> along with the mechanics, you are a lawyer. once this is on appeal, heading to new orleans, to be heard by a panel of judges, isn't it out of our hands. >> that's not a legal argument, it's a political argument. if you wanted to give republicans cover to say this is in the courts, legally republicans made a point of bringing in front of a judge with the whole country to to choose from, they picked the guy because they thought they could get the ruling from him.

doesn't mean it will hold off. theed idea that you have to arrest and deport all 11 million here without proper documentation is wildly implausible and prosecutorial discretion as a power of the executive branch is well established for a long time. >> you say it's political, and absolutely it is, but there was in process a way to get this off your plate. if you are in this impasse between the house and senate. >> yes, but the problem children in the house are incon salable, they ran on the promise to fight president obama on everything. particularly immigration. we heard an explosion of nativition after the order was announced this fall, and now that's coming back with this.

this is a litmus test issue for a great deal on the republican republicans. >> let me - i have to go to john before the next break, the rule, name for your own boss, which isn't a rule, suddenly with the deadline drawing close, i heard about the rule breached in order dilemma. >> what the rule is is a guide post for speakers. don't go out of your way to alienate a majority of your majority. if you schedule votes, onward under extraordinary circumstances would you schedule a vote that alienates a majority. looks like they'll have to do that because a majority of a majority will say i'm voting against john boehner, because i want to vote against obama. no matter what is in there, i

have to show for my constituents who have an intense dislike for president obama and immigrants for whatever reason, i don't think it's legitimate, either one. they demonstrate that they are with their constituents. >> democratic votes to get out of the current predicament. great to have you with us. >> we are counting down the hours until funding runs out for the department of homeland security for the state of play in the ongoing shoving match. we'll check in with al jazeera's mike viqueira. it's still ahead on "inside story".

welcome back to "inside story". i'm ray suarez. the deadline to fund homeland security is 24 hours away. what agencies fall under the homeland security - customs, border protection, secret service, the coast guard, f.e.m.a. and the t.s.a. if the money runs outs it impacts pay checks, hiring,

employee training and processing brands for state and local governments. if president obama is enjoying the predicament the assistantate majority leader seemed to have created for himself, he will not allow himself to say publicly. for the latest we are joined by mike viqueira. good to have you with us. good to be here. >> what is the latest from the various parties in play. >> here we are. it's a thursday even into the meeting. they meet the house republicans. you mention it's the g.o.p. leaders making, it's something that has been going on for some time, they haven't been able to bridge the divide. you know that the conservatives are irate over executive actions, try to use the power of the purse to exact retribution or try to force the president to reverse force. that will not happen. the democrats, because of the

threshold in the senate are blocking attempts to do that. now house republicans do not want to follow the retreats, allowing a clean funding of the department of homeland security going forth to the fiscal year. behind closed doors we understand house republicans meeting, they do not want to swallow this, they are talking about kicking the can down the lad, a classic washington solution to figure out a way to come together and defund homeland security. the senate appears to be willing to go along with that. the bottom line is there's not going to be a shout down. no one wants that aside from hard core conservatives. how do they clean up the mess as they race the clock, and a possible shutdown, they'll have to get a lot of people on the same page.

that's during the day on friday as midnight approaches. what to say three weeks from situation. >> mitch mcconnell, one of the first things out of this mouth said we have got to show people that we are not crazy. we have to show people that we have the ability to govern. we are in the majority in the house and senate. they didn't want high profile fila busters on the senate floor. they want hispanics under the republican party. but they are unable to do so because the people who are turning up for elections are voting for conservative candidates anti-immigration reforms. the leaders recognise they can't allow the faction in the house to drive the wagon train over the cliff again, there's little that they can do about it. they have to go through the

rigmarole, this procedure, when ultimately we know what will happen, republicans will have to senate. >> all the president has to do is stand back and wait for something to come out of the house and senate. >> right. he had a unified front. harry reid, whatever you might think of him, he knows the rules and knows how to keep the caucus in order in the senate. they have six votes to play with. it's not been a problem so far for him. >> and the first time i heart the haas ket rule whispered about was in the middle of the day were there started to be peck uselation that maybe john boehner to come off the ledge would use thresh llds. the house operated that which, through the history of the house of representatives.

people made a big deal of it. notwithstanding what our friend said earlier, that's always been the case. the question becomes will democrats go along with this. will john boehner bring in democrats. he faced a revolt. they duet it down. john boehner, at the events of the day knows he has to let the steam out of the balloon. at the end of the day they do not have the votes to do anything about it. if he needs to bring in democrats, something that is almost apostasy to a lot of conservatives. he'll do it. >> you remind us the vote was six weeks ago. >> yes. >> thank you for joining us on this edition of "inside story". get in touch on facebook, follow us on twitter. watch us next type of. in washington, i'm

ray suarez. >> we are in the farthest north reaches of wisconsin, in america's midwest, 200 miles from the nearest major city. it's home to the chippewa people, native american tribes who've lived here for generations alongside farmers and miners. but today, tourism is among the primary industries. >> right now we are on the coast of lake superior, which is frozen over so