>> protestors are gathering... >> there's an air of tension right now... >> the crowd chanting for democracy... >> this is another significant development... >> we have an exclusive story tonight, and we go live... pass hello, i'm ray suarez, when the fund that pays social security, disabledy insurance runs short. the gap is filled with an infusion of cash from the old age community funds. tucked away in the new business for congress was a quiet tie bomb. congressional

forces cut the quick fix, now benefits will need to be cut. are people abusing the programme. is precipitating a debate over social security the thing now. we have the top man, a congressman sounding the alarm and a debate on how to solve it ahead. whether you collect benefits now or in the future, this affected you. listen up, it's important, it's your money, and it's "inside story". with congress lurching from debt ceiling to a shutdown and threatened shutdown from the department of homeland security, there's another cliff on the horizon, social security disability insurance, it will

not have enough money to pay full scheduled benefits by the end of 2016. congress is fighting over how to fluing the gap. it's -- plug the gap. in is complicated stuff. we'll walk you through it with the people inside the story. the stakes are real of as of december there were almost 11 million receiving social security benefits, the average over $12,000 a year. if congress fails to act by the end of 2016, benefits would drop by $2300 per person. don't worry, not yet anyway. congress never failed to act in the past. in fact, it has shored up social security disability programs 11 times with a simple transfer of the funds from the better funded retirement programme. only this time republicans in congress are putting their foot down, they have put in place a rule making additional funding of the disability insurance programme conditional on policy

reform, pointing to growth in the number of disability beneficiaries as a sign this the programme is out of control. in 1980, the perm of insured workers refusing benefits was 2.8%. by 2013 pt number more than doubled to 5.9%. disability advocates and policy advocates disagree about the policy. president obama and democrats wanted to do what has happened in the past, transfer funds to the social retirement fund and deal with it before 2033 when the combined funds will run out of money to pay fully scheduled benefits. as usual it's more than dollars and scents, this debate, it's a battle in a law as an incentive for government to take modest but vital protections. we begin with money - coming in

and going out with the tweef abbing tuary, steven gauz. welcome to the programme. >> thank you, nice to be here. short? >> really, basically it's a matter of the law. when congress sets up the law, they set up a tax rate. the last time they were established for the disability insurance fund was in 1994. at that time we projected that we'd reach a point in 2016, and estimates are accurate. it was understood and advanced that 20 years ago we'd reach the point. it's time for congress to take the next step in action. >> have more people turned to the government and said "look, i can't work the way i used to itself, more than were expected or predicted, drawing on the disability insurance funds?

>> well, we discussed this much, and since about 1980 there has been a tripling of people receiving disabled worker benefits from the disability insurance programme. a vast majority is an increase in working ages, women working more, becoming wonderfully more insured, able to get benefits, and finally a couple of other its which is the increased retirement age, which means people get disability benefits for an extra year, and finally, of course, the recession at the end of seven which gave us a bit of an increase in the number of benefits. >> strictly speaking, just a recession shouldn't mean that people are less able to work. are people who felt that they were on the bubble. who had physical maladies, that if there was a job around they

may have kept on working, instead reply for benefits. >> there is some of that. the way i think of this, if ray is running a business and steve is not doing well, but the orders are coming in fast and furious more than he can handle, he may keep me on beyond a point where i'm productive. if a recession comes on and he lays me off, i may not get back in the workforce. >> have the rules about disability and what you need to do changed? >> the rules change over time, and technology. the congress sees fit to make changes, and we change a medical listing of impairment. basically it is stable over drive. the primary drivers are the cost of the programme, and is the release in the population, and it's getting older. >> normally you just adjust as you go alongs, as in the actuarial world, when you see

predictions and projections are not working out, you tilt the wheel a little don't you. is there a fix that would mean down the road you wouldn't have to make this kind of transfer, that disability insurance wouldn't be short-handed. >> well, there is a fix, and again, as i mentioned back in 1995 after the last major reallocation was enacted, we were projecting what we were facing now. the reserves depleting in 2016. it's a matter of congress making decisions. we put forth the in the, but congress puts forth the position. we need adjustments. they are not major, but adjustments are needed for the disability insurance, but going forward, and the old age and survivor's portion. >> when your check, or the check of one you love comes in without incident and clears. thank you, chief abbing tuary of

the social security division. >> after the break, why this fight and why now. if republicans blocked the usual transfer because they want reform, what do they want? is the programme abused, mismanaged the way they charge. stay with us. it's "inside story". >> between 1990 and 2003 nasa launched four satellites to photograph our galaxy across the spectrum of both visible and invisible light. they made up the agency's "great observatory program" and each orbiting telescope saw things a little differently, and now the youngest of the four satellites has just finished its mission. the spitzer space telescope is an infrared camera, it detects objects that our eyes can't see and it has taken 2.5 million photographs over the course of almost 10 years in operation. >> 2.5 million photographs

stitched together into one big view, which allows you to zoom in incredibly far to see all the way out past the dust and so forth that blocks our normal vision and look through infrared through all of that dust out at stars that are all the way out at the edge of our known galaxy. >> and being able to see all of it in infrared means we're seeing distant stars, stars at least 100 times larger than our own sun. the ability to navigate among these stars is invaluable to astronomers, but even to a casual observer it's pretty mind-blowing.

is welcome back to "inside story" on al jazeera america i'm ray suarez. this time on the programme, social security and the part of the program that provides monthly insurance checks to the disabled. congressional republicans

blocked the transfer of money from old age funds to make up a shortfall in disability. without an infusion of cash, disability will have to take a cut. were they right to get in the way of automatic approval of topic up funds. we hear from two experts on the disability programme with opposing bills on funding the gap. first to coil -- capitol hill, joined by a senator. welcome to the program congresslessman. as a -- congressman. as a minority members, did you see it coming. >> when they adopted rules subjecting the transfer that we have done routinely over a

number of years to an objection by a single person, that's a signal that they are creating an artificial cliff, and it will be a challenge to navigate this in a reasonable fashion. >> what do your majority colleagues want in return for money? >> well, it's interesting. because we actually had our first hearing of the subcommittee, and they had two witness, we had one. every single witness, all of them agreed that you are not going to be able to make massive reforms. you'll have to transfer some money to top it off, as you said, at the top of the interview. i think what they want to do in some cases is tighten down some of the potential leakage from people who might be abusing the programme, and no one denies that there might not be some of that going on. that's not the major reason we are in this pickle.

it's because ageing baby boomers, population increase, higher retirement age, and a bad economy have created this, and we are going to need time to do it properly so we don't jeopardise 11 million people who depend on this is there a once and for all fix so you wouldn't have to come back to the money transfer process again and again. >> ultimately what they are most frustrated about, and it's a frustration that i share, is that congress has repeatedly refused to deal with the looming crisis in social security. 20 years from now there'll be a 20-25% reduction in benefits if we don't act. the longer we wait to act, the harder it will be. the disability piece is an illustration, it's relatively minor. we can transfer a lot money to make it sustainable for the next

20 years, and have a minister cool impact on the -- miniscule impact on the overall social security trust fund life. but people are wanting to make a point. i hope we don't do it in a way that is destructive to some of our most vulnerable citizens. >> one more question before i let you go. you mentioned that your colleagues precipitated a crisis, setting up another cliff. they have long felt on the other side of the house that social security needs a rebuild, a reform that is thorough going and maybe precipitating a crisis is a way to begin that conversation, no? >> they have been in control in the house of representatives for 16 out of the last 20 years. they had plenty of time to do something on their watch. and now creating an artificial crisis, another cliff.

these do not work out well for them. the cliff on homeland security. the cliff on the government shutdown. the cliff that we are going to have on the so-called dot fix. we ought to sit down and legislate thought fully, there's time to do it right. top up the fund and roll our sleeves and deal with the big picture of social security, the disability peace is relatively minor. >> earl bloom i'ming hall, a democratic member of the ways and means committee joining me now is ramena, fellow budgetary affairs at the heritage foundation and rebecca vallize, director of policy for the poverty to prosperity programme at the center for american congress. you heard the congressman, wondering why we have this battle now. is this a good time to have the

fight, have we waited too long to start it? >> i think congress waited too long. the last time reallocated was all they needed to do was by time. reform never came. in fact, there are a lot of ways in which we could improve the disability programme so what works better for beneficiaries, it's overdue to start talking about solutions. >> even if you don't approve of the means, why not have it out now, so you don't have to come back every couple of years and top up the fund. i'm all for having a conversation, i think it's important to have the conversation, to listen to what the american public wants. poll after poll made clear americans love social security they are opposed to cuts. they want to strengthen benefits.

a poll found americans across party lines and levels of generations agree that what they want do see is social security strengthened, benefit increased and are willing to pay more to do that. >> embedded in what you are saying is the assumption that having the debate implies we'll cut it. >> that's part of what is fascinating to me, living in washington d.c. is how divorced the conversation inside the belt way is to what the american people want. what we hear inside the belt way is how much do we cut, how do we reform, reform being code for cuts. what we don't hear is anything that mirrors what the american people say they want. >> what would a reform of a disability insurance programme mean to the programme. what is wrong with the programme and the way it's working now. >> the big issue is that a lot of people on the programme that could work under different conditions because the programme establishes the inspection of

permanent benefits and few individuals leave once they get on programme rolls, it doesn't accommodate the needs of those with disabilities that do want to work. there's a lot of ways that we could address the programme and save taxpayers money. i want to come to the point americans make. they don't want to see a benefit cut. what happens now is there's a cut that would hurt of the most vulnerable among us. that's what we need to prevent in the first place. if we raid the social security trust fund to show the disability trust fund temporarily, then we are threatening seniors and disabled with benefit cuts down the road that will be 50% bigger than today. the shortfall is getting larger the longer we make. >> you heard the chief actuary say na disability applications rise in a recession.

does that buttress the point that some are using that as a gate way to retirement or a permanented benefit, rather than one -- permanent benefit. >> what wasn't said is the official position of the social security administration is less than 5% of growth that we have seen over the last three decades is due to the recession. >> it's a minor fact, over stated by people trying to undermine support for the programme. we hear we can tight thing up or reform. we already have the strictest disability standard in the developed world. that's a fact. we deny the vast majority, more than six in 10 are denied.

people, and the programme are strict that some beneficiaries die within five years of getting benefits. we have a strict standard. we'd be hard pressed to come up with something stricter. the forms are to do with the backlog. we have all sorts of people waiting years for benefits that they earn, and thousands die waiting for benefits. that is what congress should turn attention to. >> when we come back, is this a fix that sounds great until someone tells you, or a member disability. >> what would it take to cut back on disability claims accepted. are people ready for that, and is this a small dress rehearsal for big battles coming over the main social security fund. that is still ahead on "inside story".

you're watching "inside story", on al jazeera america i'm ray suarez. social security disability insurance on the programme - nearly 11 million people are helped by a monthly check. now that there are short falls for funding, questions are asked about elegibility and fraud.

rebecca and rome eena of the heritage foundation is with me. you wanted to respond to what rebecca said before the break about eligibility and so on. >> what is interesting about the programme is if you look at the different stages of application, there's about a one in two chance overall for somebody to refuse benefits. it's - the chances are about the flip of a coin. i think what we want is accurate and consistent decision making. the process currently - there are a lot of concerns that there is too much fraud going on, and there are some that are rubber-stamping applications. they are areas that if we don't address fraud in the system, it undermines public support for the benefit for the individuals them. >> let's say you are right that a lot of people are cheating. would finding them be almost as expensive as it would be to give

them the insurance if they passed through the filters that are put in to pass them through? >> it's not necessarily all fraud that is intentional. if someone gets into the programme, they need to go through recovery and need accommodations to return to work. after three years out of the workforce, and the social security administration doesn't check on them because they have a backlog when it comes to disability reviews, they've been in the programme for three years, growing accustomed to the benefits and rely on them work. >> like an unemployed person trying to get back in the workforce. sometimes if you haven't been working for a while. again. >> where i think we agree is there's social security administration, things they are supposed to do to check people remain eligible. the reason the f.s.a. has not been able to do reviews on title.

they have been systematically underfunded for an administrative budget by congress. every time the social security inspector general looks at the issue, the weight of fraud programme is less than 1%. any case of fraud is one too many. what we need to do is give the social security administration resources to keep fraud as rare as possible, and not beating it over the head with myths and misunderstandings about what the real problem is here. one other thing that is important since we are having a conversation about the 2016 programme is that each if we were to root out every case of fraud or abuse, it wouldn't get us close to preventing the need for reallocation across the earlier. >> there are other options than reallocation pushing us all the way to 2033, which is way too plate to address the problems.

congress in the past has granted short-term borrowing authority to the di programme, and i think maybe there could be pilot programs that congress should look at to make the programme better. in terms of disability, funding alone is not the only problem. some countries adopted. like the u.k. and netherlands a needs-based period of disability, for someone we expect to recover. there should be an expectation that they return to work, and work support. many want to work. we need to shift the emphasis to permanent benefit to providing a safety net for those that need it and not trap them. >> the fact is that the social security disability programme hoos an array of work incentives and support. improved. they are allowed, permitted and encouraged to test their ability

to return to work. >> in practice, do we know if they do return. >> here is the fact, because we have disability standards, and so many that are ill and have illnesses and disabilities, most people by designs, on the programme are not able to work. what we should focus on, if we care about giving people with disability a fair shot. let's not blame the life boat. let's have a conversation about removing barriers to employment and people with disabilities. let's talk about raising the minimum wage and medicaid expansions, let's have an adult conversation about how we can give people a fair shot of employment, instead of blaming social security for being a problem when it's there to catch people not able to work. >> i'd like to correct one fact, which is that the number of people on disability has about doubled since the '90s.

people have not become thicker. in fact, there's a lot more accommodations for people to continue working and only about 50%, according to the federal reserve bank, can be explained by demographic factors, more women joining the workforce. the rest is unexplained. >> 50% is a lot. some is a subjective standard, and the administrative law judges are overburdened and not doing a good job reviewing cases. senator tom millburn did a study. 25% of reviewed cases had issues, where benefits were granted, that if there was a stricter process, would not have been granted. once someone has benefits, the value is -- 300,000. >> a quick comment. >> americans love social

security and don't want benefits cut. i hope what we see an an agreement, instead of politicking, is it 11 million disabled workers, when benefit cuts would be nothing short of a death sentence. i hope we can agree we will not play politics with people's lives. thank you both. that's all for this edition of "inside story". we want you to talk back to your television. visit facebook and give us feedback on what you hear. we invite you to follow us on twitter. the handle is ajinsidestoryam or get in touch with me on raysuez raysuezavjamnews.

i'm ray iraqi forces say they are making gains in their latest offensive against isil fighters around the city of tikrit. ♪ ♪ hello, i am jane dutton other stories making the news on al jazerra. >> my speech is not intended to show any disrespect to president obama. >> washington and israel play down tensions surrounding prime minister benjamin netanyahu's controversial visit to the u.s. moscow prepared for the funeral of russian opposition leaders who have shot dead in