tv Talk to Al Jazeera Al Jazeera April 6, 2015 4:00pm-4:31pm EDT
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america's coastline. >> we have kinda made a deal with the devil >> fault lines al jazeera america's hard hitting... >> today they will be arrested... >> ground breaking... they're firing canisters of gas at us... award winning investigative documentary series... the disappearing delta only on al jazeera america >>this week on talk to al jazeera civil rights leader julian bond >> here are these ordinary people innocent people doing nothing at all walking down the street bam, bam, bam these policeman jump up on them beat them, in this horrific way >> as the fiftieth anniversary of the voting rights march from selma to montgomery and bloody sunday, was marked protesters across the country today are calling for and end to what they say
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is racial discrimination in the us criminal justice system >> i'd have them saying - we're all gonna knock on these doors- we're gonna be machine moving and yelling and sceaming and making noise >> another testiment that there is more work to be done. video of racist chants sung by university of oklahoma fratenity brothers. >> where did they learn this? where does this ugliness come from? it's scary to me that these young men who you expect more from or i expect more from >> the tea party is not helping the country become post racial either bond says, their racist... >> and they know it too... they're wrong headed people doing wrong headed things, but, i wouldn't compare them to the ku klux klan... >> the social activist has also expressed outrage about discriminitory anti-lgbt laws.
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>> they helped me, and why should i not help them? they helped me push the needle forward. i'm eager to push the needle forward for them. >> i spoke to julian bond in atlanta georgia. >> so julian bond, we sit here today of all days, the 50th anniversary of the selma march, march 21st 1965. tell me about that day for julian bond. >> it was a magic day. i was not in selma on that day but i was here in atlanta. and-- obvious that things were going on hearing about them by telephone. my job was to publicize the student nonviolent coordinating committee, the things they did, and to let the people in the field know what was going on and to summon them to do something about it. >> in a sense, you were a forerunner to twitter. you were sending out the news and information before
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we had that-- >> you could say i was an early twitter. it was-- >> you were the first tweeter of the era. let's talk about that.. now, with ferguson with tamir rice in cleveland with what we saw the horror in oklahoma of those fraternity brothers on a bus how important are images video, telling the story? >> they are enormously important because they do show to the looking public what is going on, what people are doing, what's happening here in ways that you couldn't show them before. you could show photograph pictures of things, but take a couple of days to get them out. but today, bam bam bam, whatever you wanna see you can see. >> so the selma march, the fact that the images went worldwide, how much of an effect did that have on the work that you all were doing on the ground? >> it had a tremendous effect. i mean it-- it's almost immeasurable. you can't tell because here are
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these ordinary people, innocent people doing nothing at all walking down the street. bam bam bam, these policemen jump up on them, beat them in this horrific way. and all of a sudden-- the world sees it in ways the world could not see such things before. so it was just a magic transformation in the way people learn these things. >> and was there a sense that you could say to the world "hey-- hey listen we're not kidding about this. this is really happening." was there-- >> oh, absolutely. we-- this is it. this is really happening. you see this. these are real people. this is happening to real people. and you can see it right now, of course. it was-- i-- i-- i hate to k-- stop. i hate to keep saying, "magic but it-- it is magic. >> you're a veteran of the civil rights movement. you've worked at this all your life and it's 2015, 50 years on. same things are happening, the same atrocities. you talk about emmett till a little bit his influence on you when you were a young boy. talk about that as it pertains to this. >> emmett till's picture was put
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in jet magazine and the picture's of a bloated corpse. just ugly ugly ugly pictures. but to see them and know this is a real person a real human being and that's the way he used to look and here's the way he looks now, just frightening. >> and how old were you when that happened? >> oh, gee whiz i was one year older than he was >> so it was like seeing someone who could have been in your classroom-- > >> it was exactly so. it was somebody like me my age who was the same age as i am. it was scary. >> back to selma a little bit, getting back to the march, you all had a purpose. you wanted to get the vote. that's a tangible thing. is there in civil rights today that same goal that's-- tangible goal, or is it still elusive? >> it's a tangible goal to get the story told and get it told quickly, get it told-- strongly get it told fairly get people-- let people know about it in ways they couldn't
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know as quickly as they could-- could-- could know before. so in-- in those regards it's a little different but it's the same at the same time. bam bam bam bam bam. now the world can see this thing happening in ways the world couldn't see it before. >> but now the world sees it and they react differently. the-- the reaction is different than it was back then. >> yes i-- it was different and it's quick. it's quicker. it's-- as i-- say, bam bam bam bam bam, in ways that the world couldn't appreciate it before. >> the reaction in the streets the reaction in the media. setting aside the pictures and-- and i-- just the way the community reacts to something that they find to be horrific like some of these events we've talked about. how is that reaction different to what the way selma was reacted-- >> it's different. you-- you've seen this boy in charlottesville, virginia a university of virginia student. you see him and you hear him say "i'm a university of virginia student, meaning "don't hit me. hit-- hit somebody else if you have to hit somebody. don't hit me." but
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this appeal he makes is so real-- it can't be rejected. it can't be pushed away. >> but then let's talk about the organized response to things like that. ferguson, for example, seemed very disorganized in the way they responded to both the actual event and the grand jury and then the justice department. is there a vacuum of leadership in black america and civil rights america? >> i don't think there's a vacuum of leadership. i think there's a vacuum of organized-- organization and these are not quite the same thing. in ferguson, the leadership was there. it was mobilizing people. it was saying, "let's do something about this. let's raise some hell about this." today-- things are not happening as quickly and they're not put together as quickly as they-- as they were then. >> if today somebody said, "we're gonna make julian bond the de facto head of ferguson
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response--" after it had happened what would you have done differently? >> i would have organized people to march or protest in a particular way t-- to-- tow-- in a particular direction. i'd have them-- saying "we're all gonna knock on-- these doors. we're gonna make this noise. we're going to do this thing right here. we're gonna be a machine moving and yelling and screaming and making noise." and that is the difference i would make. >> we look back at the civil rights movement as students of it and people who weren't even there. we see people like yourself, like john lewis, of course like martin luther king. so many others, andy young we could have a long list. but when we look today we see very often jesse jackson and al sharpton. the young leaders, where are they? >> they're around. they're around. you look at the people who are the dreamers who mobilize the sit-in at the florida state conference.
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that's youth leadership. that's raising hell. that's making a lot of noise. and they're gonna make it again. >> and is the raising hell working? >> it is. it's not working as well as it might but give 'em some time. they'll-- they'll give you some hell. >> so you think that it takes time f-- >> it takes a little time, yes. they have to get together. they have to say "yeah, we're gonna do this. we're gonna do that." you can't just say, "bam, we're gonna do this thing." you have to be together. you have to figure out what you're gonna do what-- what plans you have. you have to be organized in ways, i think, that often people are not organized today. >> we all see the video of these fraternity brothers at oklahoma state singing that song. we all react a certain way. do you react in a particularly deflated way when you see that? >> i think "my lord what is it? do these kids ever learn anything? have they learned anything at all? where did they learn this? where's this ugliness come from?" it's scary to me that these young men,
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who you expect more from or i expect more from. they are college students-- after all. why aren't they better trained? why aren't they better educated? why are they acting s-- like such idiots? >> can you answer any of those questions-- >> none. none of it. no, i can't imagine why they behave in the way they do. >> when you see video like the university of oklahoma students, do you think "god i-- i-- i thought we beat this." >> i thought these things were not gonna happen again. i thought this was done. and when i see it and learn that it's not done that it's the same bunch of idiots doing the same idiotic stuff over and over again, i just say "what the hell is goin' on?" >> selma is-- has come to mind for so many people because of the film that-- that came out this summer. but at the time, sel-- selma was a culmination of something, wasn't it? >> yes. it was a culmination of-- of a movement made up of many people working hard every day. some doing this, some doing that, some doing this. pushing the needle faster
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and faster and faster and faster. i don't think you quite have that anymore. >> and do you think we don't have that anymore because they got the vote? there's not one thing? for example, gay marriage. as soon as you get gay marriage it becomes a bit more nebulous what they're fighting for. with the vote, they got the vote and then it becomes scattered. >> no, i don't think it's that at all. i think it's that the things that we still haven't got, we haven't learned how to demand them in ways we demanded these earlier things these earlier appeals. and when we do learn how to do it, we'll be right back in line again. >> let's talk about the film selma. it was it was a hit. it brought a lot of education to people. what do you think of the movie? >> i thought it could have been better than it was. you know, people in the civil rights movement like myself don't like any movie about the civil rights movement. i don't care who made it who's in it, who the stars are, we don't like any of them.
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and this one i particularly didn't like the portrayal of president johnson, which i thought was unfair to him. in this regard he was a champion. d he was not portrayed as a champion. he was portrayed as sort of a nit, and he wasn't a nit. he was a real, real, real good guy. >> in your estimation, did lyndon b. johnson impede or help facilitate civil rights? >> he helped it-- push it forward. if it hadn't been for president johnson, we wouldn't have the civil rights act we wouldn't have the voting rights act. i mean, just a succession of good things happened when president johnson was president. and nobody can just tell me that's not true >> what presidents aside from johnson have had positive influences in recent history on civil rights? >> oh gee, it's hard to say because none of them has had an overwhelmingly positive effect on civil rights. if you take away president johnson, there's not a president who's been way up here in my
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estimation. johnson is way up here but none of the others are. >> is there someone who's surprisingly good that we don't think about too often who did good things? >> no. >> no. >> no, there's none. >> let's talk about president obama then. you know, president obama walked across the edmund pettus bridge a bridge named for a confederate general and a founder of-- or a st-- you know, original member of the ku klux klan in alabama. tell me what that felt like seein' that happen on the 50th anniversary. >> well, i watched it on tv like most people did. and-- i've walked across that bridge myself several times and hope to walk across it again. and i was happy to see it. i think it meant something positive that the black president of the united states has walked across this bridge that a segregationist - this bridge was named after a segregationist. and now a black president has walked across this bridge. and
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suddenly part of that is erased at least in my mind so that's a step forward. >> barack obama. how has he been-- how do you view him in the-- through the prism of-- of civil rights? >> well, he's had a difficult time because he's got a congress that has said "no, no no to almost everything he wants to do. so no matter what it is he tries to do he can't do it because the republican congress just says, "no, no no to everything he does. so he's had a real mess here where he can't do what he wants to do and what he needs to do. i don't think we know about president obama yet. we need to give him some time. >> he only has about a year and a half left. >> no, i mean even-- even after that. even after that and tal-- and see what he-- what he does see how he behaves and-- see what he's done. >> in the past you have talked about the tea party as being you know essentially racist. do you still believe that? >> oh, sure. yeah, absolutely. and they know it, too. >> and what has their effect
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been-- on race relations in the country? >> it's been bad because they're a negative element. they are taking their negativity and applying it to the american political system and that's just not a good outcome for us. it's not a good thing for the-- the country. it-- it doesn't signify that we're gonna rise up. in fact it makes us fall down. >> and do you compare them or is it possible to even to compare them to what you faced 50 years ago? >> no, no. they're not quite the same thing. they're wrong-headed people doing wrong-headed things but i wouldn't compare them to the ku klux klan that i faced. >> you go back to-- to the ku klux klan that you faced. what are some particular or a particular-- what was the scariest time you had in the movement? >>well i can remember being in downtown atlanta and-- picketing department stores that wouldn't serve black people wouldn't give us food,
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wouldn't allow us to go in and get something to eat. and-- i felt real fear that these spindle-legged little bumsters-- (laugh) you know real poise-- pose a real threat to me. luckily, nothing un-- untoward happened but the threat was always there. >> you have said that obama is to the tea party what the moon is to a werewolf. what do you mean by that-- >> well, (laugh) i mean that obama is to the tea party what the moon is to the werewolves. >> thank you. i-- we needed it clarified and i'm glad-- >> well, good, good-- >> --i'm glad we were able to get to the bottom of that-- >> i'm glad we straightened that out. >> coming up julian bond talks about another rights movement, the battle for lgbt equality. stay with us...
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>> "the stream". >> your digital community. >> you pick the hot topics and express your thoughts. "the stream", it's your chance to join the conversation. tuesday to friday, 3:30 eastern. only on al jazeera america. >> you're watching talk to al jazeera, i'm michael shure speaking with civil rights icon, julian bond
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>> looking back at the movement even in the movie selma, but reading about it and knowing about it it wasn't all harrowing and terrible. and i've heard you in other interviews even talk about how it was a good time the civil rights movement. talk about that a little bit. >> it was a wonderful time. it was the best time of my life to be in the civil rights movement, to be doing this thing this thing and this thing with this group of people. my colleagues, people who worked for the student nonviolent coordinating committee with me. people who marched down the street with me, who walked across the bridge with me. these people were just the best people, and i loved being with 'em and i can only hope i get to be with 'em again and again and again. >> and as you get to together with some of those people, as i'm sure you do from time to time do you shake your head sometimes that can you believe what's still going on? >> i say "not only can you believe what's still going on but "can you believe we're still going on?" that's the thing that's hard to believe.
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>> i mean, you're taking tours through the south teaching people about what you did then. you're teaching at university. do you feel moved to do that? >> oh, very much so. i feel compelled to do it because-- i think it's one of those things, "if i don't do it, who's gonna do it?" >> i'm going back to the vacuum of leadership, is do you see people and inspire a spark and then know that "okay, one day i'm gonna be able to hand this stuff off to them?" >> sure. i see that. and you know it may be tomorrow morning. it may be next week. it may be next year or something. but sure, i see that happening. >> i wanna call your attention to a letter that you wrote also 50 years ago. julian bond democratic candidate for the georgia house of representatives. in it, you say that you wanna talk about housing, getting better jobs, getting better pay and improving schools. 50 years ago. and that was for the georgia state senate.
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has that gotten better? >> yes the georgia legislature and the state of georgia is a better place than it was when i wrote that letter. it's not a perfect place far and from it, but it's a better place now than it was then. >> so we're not post-racial in this country-- no, we're not post-racial. we're better we're better. what would define post-racial, and is it possible? >> i think it is possible, but i think it's something you know you're just-- some dreamer-- some dream-- dreaming you're having. and if you're-- understand this dreaming then you understand it's a dream. >> can you recount for me any interaction you had with dr. king that-- kind of inspired you to keep doing this? >> i can't say we were best friends or buddies. but i had-- some association with him this time this time, someplace else. i remember one time he and i were walking across the morehouse college campus and i said to him, "doc, how you doin'?" his friends called him "doc." he said "julian, i'm not doin' well." he said
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"unemployment is high. racism's everywhere. segregation's immovable." he said, "i feel awful. i have a nightmare." i said, "doc, turn that around. try, 'i have a dream.'" >> so really it came from you. you were the, "i have a dream, guy-- >> i wouldn't say that. i wouldn't say that. >> but what brought you to the movement in the first place? what made julian bond wake up one day and say, "i wanna (cough) put myself in harm's way and make it better?" >> i was in-- going to morehouse college in atlanta. i was sitting in a drugstore having lunch. a student came up to me and said "have you seen this?" held up a newspaper. newspaper said "greensboro students-- sit in for third day." said, "have you seen this?" i said, "yeah." he said "what about it?" i said, "it's great. it's good." he said, "don't you think it'll happen here?" i said, "it's-- it's gonna happen here." "don't you think we ought to make it happen here?" i said "what do you mean, 'we?'" he said, "you take this side of the drugstore, and i'll take the other." and we did. and we started the movement. >> and so you-- the-- and that was where? that was in atlanta. >> atlanta. >> and then you were hooked? >> i was hooked. i was-- i
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couldn't-- couldn't turn back. >> you see the lgbt community as fighting for civil rights, too, and you are a proud supporter of them. what draws you to that fight as well? >> well, because i worked in the civil rights movement with many gay people-- many lesbians. they helped me, and why should i not help them? they helped me push the needle forward. i'm eager to push the needle forward for them. i wanna help them, and i hope they wanna help me some more. >> what would you say to counterparts in the gay rights movement about what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong? >> i don't know what they're doing wrong, but they're doin' somethin' so right. it's just amazing the speed with which the movement for gay rights has-- has-- has come to the country. bam bam bam bam bam. good for you. keep goin', brothers. keep goin', sisters. keep at it. >> people look at the civil
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rights movement, people in that community the gay community, the latino community they look at you as a hero. who were your heroes? >> well, i have many, many heroes. lot of people i served with in the student nonviolent coordinating committee. the names are just too numerous to mention now. people i marched with, people i went to jail with people i did this or that or the other thing w-- these are my heroes. and the people who came before me. w.e.b. dubois is a big big hero of mine. >> tell me why. >> he's just one of the smartest people in the world. and-- to read what he wrote and to understand the th-- thoughts he went into, you just think "wow why can't i be like that?" and someday i will. >> do you think the media is doing a good job of covering racial-- >> no, not doing a good job of covering these kind of things and i'm not sure exactly what it is or why it is. and it seems like they're missing something.
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they're not telling the story the way the story should be told. they're not telling it all. they're leaving something out. i'm not really sure what it is but i know i'm missing something. >> do you feel like you had that something before and it's gone-- >> yes i think i had it had a media that told the story more clearly in the past than is true today. not told it better but-- well, maybe even told it better than is told it-- today. >> still ahead on talk to al jazeera, julian bond talks about where he'd like race relations to be 50 years from now >> the peninsula, in arabic, is aljazeera. our logo represents courage. fiercely independent quality reporting. >> to take as much aid as possible... >> and standing up for the voiceless. when you see this symbol respected around the world it means you too can now count on all the things we stand for. just
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our guest this week, julian bond, long time veteran of the civil rights movement. >> 50 years from now julian bond, where do you imagine when you close your eyes race relations will be in the country? >> i'm not really sure. where i hope they'll be is people will be saying, "well, we've come forward more than i thought we would." i hope we-- somebody will be saying that. and if they say that that'll be okay with me. >> so that'll be a hundred years from selma. >> right. >> somebody says "what do you want julian bond to be remembered for when it comes to civil rights?" what would you say? >> i want people to say, "he was a race man." that's a man who cared about his race and wanted to help him as much as he could. >>you've said, "race is history." or you've said "history is race not, "race is history." >> right. >> what does that mean? >> it means-- history is race because we're always learning history. we're always reading history. we're always seeing it-- what's happening in history. and we wanna look at it more and see what's happening.
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