to the mayor and i believe he is the president of the university of -- we'll check that. these are pictures from earlier today in which, you can see, police, in riot gear, having to look, the reality is, you can see these pictures for yourself. these are police, who are being pelted with rocks. and rocks, in some cases of some size, you can see this. shields up. trying to ward off young people

throwing rocks. at police. today, the funeral service for freddie gray was held, whether this is as spon spontaneous reaction to that, we don't know. there was some activity online, suggesting a school purge today which john was tell me is an indication that kids at a particular time should leave school and cause trouble. this is a live picture now, i believe that is pennsylvania avenue and we're been following. ii want to bring in the former mayor. you are an ideal person to talk to, and i'm wondering what you are thinking about as your following the progression of this story, and if we're staying

in this particular moment, what your thoughts are as you watch these pictures, and hear accounts of some of the violence that is being perpetrated on the city that you love. it's a terrible trag dishes it's being compounded by some people who really aren't listening to freddie gray's family. who have been day-in-and-day-out, keep the peace. and let's talk about justice not violence. so his death is a tragedy and you know, what's going right now, in terms of some of the violent activity is not honoring his death. i have to ask you, we were having a discussion, with john, former police captain with the newark police department, and he's working here in new york.

we were talking about community policing and what do we take away as we have this discussion about the way that minority communities are policed and this is ferguson and this is staten island. and you know the story. well, two things, i remember when i was mayor and back in the last century and i had a opportunity to hire a police commissioner, and i remember the reason that i hired this one man, who was committed to community policing, that he said that he wanted to hire officers who wanted to join the force in the spirit of service not the spirit of adventure. and that was, i thought very, very telling. and then he went on to say that the key for any department, is to make sure you hire people who

believe that they are part of, not apart from the community so, when you have folks with a mindset, that they really aiding in the security of the community as opposed to looking down, ready just to collect bodies, you get a different outcome. as we look at this shot here this shot, that we're looking at now, i don't know if you have access, that's what you are talking about. this is west baltimore. and i'm looking at the officers, in west baltimore that's where i grew up and these are mostly white officers that i'm looking at, and i remember, when they lived in that community but, i don't think that's the case any more. and many --

it isn't a matter of race but sensitivity and training, and we have seen before, even some african-american officers can get caught up in the mentality of, you know, being a part from the community and so it is a training issue that we have to get to, particularly, in this city, you have to, a black police commissioner, and mayor and state's attorney, and the hope is, that, all of them working together, with community leaders, can find justice. what's the problem here? what's the flash point here. it seems to me that some of the questions, that need to be answered related to the freddie gray case should be questions that would be easy to answer, dare i say what happened? here's the thing. you have hit one of the crucial issues, and see nobody understood this, when our mayor

over the last session went down and, tried to make a change in the law, didn't even get get out of committee, and this shows why she was concerned. we have, in maryland, something called the law enforcement officers bill of rights and that gives police officers, an extra layer of protection. when an incident like this, they have ten days, they don't have to respond to inquiries about the incident, until they are able to contact a lawyer and, they're given ten days. so you can have a gap in your investigation, that leads to, real suspicion in the community that people are just taking their time to get their stories

together. so that is one of the biggest things. it's really a legal matter. it's not just a matter of a commissioner or the mayor going to those officers and saying, what happened? because, under the current law they don't have to say anything. wow! i had to make a note of that bill of rights was this something that was collectively bargained? did the union lobby the legislature for this language? yes, several states have that. it varies from state to state, how strong the laws are and, it is truly, a imped todayment, which the may tried to get changed last section and, nobody supported her when she did it. i want you because again

here's the reason why you are so perfect to talk to, and i'm so happy that we were able to get you. you will remember some of the most difficult days, in baltimore's history and you remember when crack cocaine became a scourge, in that community and, you remember what was happening with crime in baltimore, and you have a unique perspective on this city, that ties the past to this moment. i want you to talk about what this city has gone through and i remember, decade, maybe a little bit more, of 300 plus murders a year, when those were difficult times and you being the mayor, at the time, that the crack epidemic hit that city, take a moment and connect the past to this moment. yeah we were late getting

as you know, we've had for a long time, in baltimore a heroin problem and, what happened in the late 19 80s and, 9 50's is, that we had a explosion of gangs fighting over distribution rights of crack. it changed things, a great deal. so, for ten of the 12 years that i was mayor, we had 300 or more a year homicides which was real tragedy. so we changed philosophy, and as you know, during that time, i said we should change the war on drugs. yes. and right now. but, what did occur is, that, we had a change of philosophy in, policing, and it got a little bit more aggressive, on the street. and, fortunately, the whole crack epidemic started to

subside, but we still have a significant number of homicides every year which the elected officials are trying to address. and the good days, clearly outweighing the bad days, and we still have that issue to address and, now we have this complication of the mystery of freddie gray's death, and that's something that, you know, we have to respond to. i'm not trying to give the positivessers or police, in baltimore, a pass, but part of the reason, that i wanted you to tell that story, is to make the point, that this is a continuum and, you don't forget about the past because you're trying to create a better tomorrow. and it is a difficult city, to police. would you agree. you were the mayor.

well, you know, my perspective on it, is that i was the chief prosecutor, and i was state's attorney, and mayor and, so i understand the difficulties you know, we have pockets of poverty, in the city and, some areas that make it very difficult but again, it's in the spirit of community policing and getting the police to understand, and appreciate the differences in culture. that's the goal. and i think our police commissioner and mayor are trying to achieve that goal. but it is, it is challenging. what about the questions of and full disclosure here, i was a part of a making a terrific film called educating black boys, and the mayor was kind enough to sit down, for an

interview on a number of the topics that we're talking about now. and, mayor look, baltimore city education as i look at so many of these young people, who were out here, on the streets throwing rocks. we both want them in class and getting an education. we both want them making you know, their case, at the ballot box, but talk about the city, and the fight that you were a leader in, in getting young people young african-american, men in particular, in class and reading, and, the difference, in how how good it can be. i want them in school. yes, well, you know, one of the tragedies of the day is, the

incident, that you are looking at, is that some of the young people, involved in that, were in school, and they social media, and started sending around messages, about going to a shopping center. yes. and so they left the class and went over there, and the big challenge, that we have here, you know, we changed our economy a great deal and when you were here and i was younger the largest private employers was a steal company. yes. so you can drop out of high school and go down to beth steel and live a middle class life and currently the largest employers is john hopkins health system we do have jobs, and we have jobs going begging but they require a level of education

and literacy, that's higher than 40 years ago when bethlehem steel was here. and it has become essential that we lift the vision of our young people about education and, what it can do, because the jobs are there, it's just that, what is not there are a lot of jobs for untrained people, and that is a real challenge for us all. i love what you said there lifting the vision of young people and as we look at these young people, and they were doing things and, they have to know, in their right minds they shouldn't be doing and this idea of lifting the vision, what would you say to them, as a man who deeply loves that community and led it for 12 years what would you say to them, if you the megaphone in your hand and were in a position to speak to them? well, i would say we said

to some communities dream your father's dreams for yourself, and your community, and then work towards achieving those dreams. that's really the key, and that's a positive message and not a message of destruction. who needs to step forward now? we're getting reports that the mayor has made some com ments and i need to hear them or read them, that have been viewed as controversial, and she was at the funeral today and there was a rather large security detail, around her and i'm not sure what maybe you can help me understand, what it is, in her handling of this situation that's being viewed as controversial. she's the point for just the frustrations that are being felt by a lot of young people. for example file tried to

go out to the a crowd and explain the law enforcement bill of rights, they're not going to listen to me with a lot of e motion and, that's what she stuck with. she is trying to really carefully balance her words so that she's not condemning all police officers, recognizing the police department is very important, and yet she has to show some sympathy, and sensitivity to not only freddie gray's family and those concerned about justice. in trying to walk that balance i guess some people don't appreciate it, and but, you know she can't please everybody. but i'm sure there's some that feel that she should be saying more or doing more. mayor, as always, it's a real pleasure.

thank you for being so generous with your time. take care. again, let's cycle through the pictures that we have. that's pennsylvania avenue, and that's the c.v.s. pharmacy that was broken into and looted, and, the other thing a number of businesses that are probably being damaged are owned by african-americans, and don't understand the sense of trashing and destroying your own businesses, in your community. but, we've had that discussion for a long time and bring in john as we look at more pictures. where are you now? what are you seeing? well tony, we are at the site of the funeral. it's about half a mile away,

from the mall and the pictures you can see on the screen and happens just a few streets from here and gray overpass, and in baltimore and we first got wind that something was going to happen, when the university of maryland, baltimore announced that they were going to close, in the downtown district and students and teachers to go home for the debuts of rumors of some incidents related to the funeral, that may well turn violent. indeed, the campus is closed, and then, 3:00 we got word of the gathering of young people, at the mall. if you look at social media, you see going back to the early hours, there was talk about what is known as a school purge. now, that's when students come out of a high school, and go somewhere to make a protest. and that appears to have been,

in the instance of two high schools, what has happened, here. and now, we see these extraordinary pictures coming in from the mall of rocks being thrown and bricks being thrown and, we are told, that 7 officers have been injured. one of them, this is, the injuries are broken bones. one of the officers is very seriously injured and, he is unresponsive. and now, we're coming under a hail of rocks as well, where we are. so you can see, this is very, very tense here, in baltimore. and, there are police helicopters in the sky in that same press conference, and the police are determined from making sure, that no more police officers get injured. we're watching, i'm not

sure police formation here in full riot gear. starting to move forward now. i want to keep my eye on this, to see what might develop we hope the young people have the good sense to back away and get on, to other things here. but, and taking a bit of a stand, this is their holding position and they're going to maintain this position and then move forward. we anticipate that when they do make that move, they'll be using some teargas and, at least, it looks like, the young people are starting to move away. let's take a break and come back with more of this just because

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>> part of al jazeera america's >> special month long evironmental focus fragile planet

that fire has been put out and, they put that fire out and again, failing a look at these pictures and let's look at the pictures from c.v.s. and look at pennsylvania avenue, and, c.v.s., and the store was broken into, and looted and people running in-and-out. and, people running in with suitcases to grab whatever they can get. there hasn't been a police presence in that particular area. whatever has been going on there, has been allowed to go on there. and, this picture, police have -- at some point we anticipate that they might move but maybe the presence

alone is enough, and we have, a bit after sizable crowd there earlier, when we joined you with these developing story and, that crowd has disbursed a bit and, that's one of the police cars, that's totally trashed and there have been a couple of other vehicles, that have been trashed. john, is in baltimore and he was telling us, that shortly after. the tailend of the funeral there was a message that went out to, at least one of the schools in the area, maybe more. and,. if you look on social media you can trace it to about 1:00 in the morning. there was a call, went out

for what is known as a school purge. now, school purge, is where all the students, leave the school, in mass and go to make a protest and that appears to be what happened, in the case of at least two schools here, in the area where, the mall is. thisthis is the area that you're looking at. and the first that we got serious awareness of what was about to happen, was when the university of maryland, said get off campus at 2 p.m. and it may be close to our campus and that's what has happened. lines of police officers, and trying to control large groups of people. john, let me break in, i want to get the reverend bryant,

he's on the line with us. and this is a soundbite. he's the pastor, for the empowerment temple and he delivered the ulodgegy this morning. it's disappointing we're just hours out of the funeral and the family, hours after putting their son to rest, and to come a few blocks away, from where we the services, and i'm hoping to bring some calm and bring our young people back into focus. what do you sense it is? this is not what the family asked for, today of all days, the family was very clear, this was a day of sacred closure in the funeral so to come out of the burial and walk into this, is inexcusable. i'm asking every young person to go back home and, tomorrow night we'll have a community meeting

and peace is the call and the order of the day. let me bring in elizabeth. she's an a professor, and she specializes in race relations. good take talk tau. let me get your sense you've been watching these developments and really focused on what we're seeing today the freddie gray funeral is wrapping up, and then we have this outpouring of emotion and anger and it transforms itself into violence, and you have rocks being thrown and bricks, and boulders and large stones being thrown at police, and, i want you to try to, well, at least, put this into some context for us if you would. well the university of baltimore, did a project, in the

40th anniversary of 1968. and those were in the wake of doctor king. and, it's interesting, i mean, those were all balanced against -- violence against property and no violence against the police. and i mean, mostly those were young people, and there was looting, and it's interesting the c.v.s., that we can see being looted is right down the street from one of the heaviest lootings that took place in 1968 these same neighborhoods are still neighborhoods with concentrated poverty and, many of the same problems. and that they had in 1968. yeah, that's so interesting that's pennsylvania avenue. and, that, you're right that's a neighborhood, with

concentrated poverty. and, so, what was interesting is that back in 1968, it was property violence. and -- what we have today and i have a vague recollection of maybe some of these scenes where police officers were targeted, and i can't seem to remember, scenes like i have watched play out today where there are stones, and kids and they're throwing stones and rocks at police officers, in this way. and it must be acknowledged, that we're talking about 7 officers, with injuries, one was unresponsive, and we don't know what that means. that is new level, it is totally unacceptable. that was not the case in

1968. and they were not throwing rocks at police officers. similarly, we did have members of the clergy, walking streets trying to calm the crowd and trying to seek reason, and saying this is not what doctor king would have wanted. so, what is different today? why is this happening in this way? i understand frustration. i understand, the frustration after black man growing up in baltimore, i'm here to tell you and i understand, that the pent up anger, in the aftermath of michael brown's shooting, in fearing fearing. but what's different from your perspective today? well, i think one of the things that's different today is that, we're had different

policing strategies that have been employed in the last 20 years, and those strategies, have you know, built up over years in these communities and these communityies do not have good relationships with the police and that has been a big change, since the 1960s. and, so, that's the issue here. but, i'm going to push on you this. what does that mean? what does that mean? they have different relationships with police, and model, and this isn't ferguson, where, you know, you had up armored vehicles, on this particular street, where cops are being pelted with rocks. we didn't see some super militarized response here. i do remember, a day when police officers lived in the

communities and that's not the case. it does feel like it's a them versus mentality. and i'm trying to understand, when that happened, and why that happened and, how we break that cycle. well it seemed like the war on drugs contributed a lot to that and you know, that's what, we have lost a lot of jobs, in baltimore city, over the past 40 years and they're not a lot of ways that people who work in the city, who don't have you know, a lot of education, can get paying jobs. and, we've had a lost drug activity in the city, and we're the crack epidemic, and we've had a lost policing that was trying to target people involved in that. it's a story of many things. it is. and so that's what we've

seen since the 1960s. and, that created a relationship between neighborhoods and police that, it's less about protecting the law abiding citizens and trying to actually capture the people who are in the drug trade. so, i want to know, what your -- what you want to say as we look at these pictures. what is it that you want top say to these young people. you know that these kids belong in school. you know the only thing that's going to transform their lives is education. so what is it that you want to say? what is your frustration at this moment, as we watch these events? well my two sons lived through the baltimore city school system, i have a lot of trust. i helped start a charter school, in my neighborhood.

i feel like people learning about history and learning that the up rising of the 1960s, did not cause a downfall of baltimore but it didn't help baltimore. and, you know, looting your own communities and creating violence in your own community does not send a message that is the one that you want to send, we can learn from those mistakes in the past and, have more protestes like the peaceful protests that happen on saturday, and the peaceful protest, that freddie gray's family was calling for today and not violence, that results in real destruction of people's communities. yeah,. i appreciate it. thank you. i want to play some sound a bit of a "q and a." an update, a briefing from

the captain. he spoke earlier about injured officers and the situation from earlier this afternoon. on saturday, we saw the best of baltimore. we saw protests that were peaceful as the city came together to voice frustration and, share their concerns with this police department, a small group of agitate tors, turned it violin, and you saw restraint. remarkable restraint from the officers. this afternoon a group of outrange just criminals attacked our officers. right now we have 7 officers that have serious injuries, broken bones and one officer who is unconscious. we will do whatever is appropriate, to protect the safety of our police officers, and ensure the safety of the people that live and work in the area. we have officers deploy he had three on you the city to

make sure we can deliver police services and we'll continue to keep the city safe. our officers are working as quickly as they can, to bring about order in the area and affect arrest of the criminals who vi licensely attacked our police officers. can you tell us how the officer was injured. we're still in the middle of the situation. it's still happening. we know, as this is going, that 7 of our officers right now have been injured. and the exact circumstances that took place, will be determine ked. we'll go back and do an investigation and we'll find the people that are responsible and put them in jail. who do you believe are responsible? right now it is a group of lawless individuals with no regard to the people and safety of our police officers, who were

there to ensure that the people who live and work in that area could do so. [inaudible] q.i don't know who is out there right now. that's something that we'll determine as this event goes on. what we know, they're criminals. they attack officers without provocation and no regard for the people that live in the community and, our officers are working hard. [inaudible] i'm not going to speculate as to what this is related to. we're telling with the situation, and you can hear officers responding out there. and, make sure the people are safe and our officers are safe. [inaudible] i don't have an estimate of the size right now, it's a large group of people, spread out and our officers are employ them, and that they stay safe, and i can't emphasize this enough. we have 7 officers they have broken bones and one is then

responsive. this is not o cai. our officers went out to that situation, to make sure that the people that live in that community were safe and we'll continue to do what we can. we have that obligation to the city. [inaudible] i don't want to speculate about any correlation between the two we received a threat, it was run through our intelligence section and it was determined to be credible, so we took the appropriate precautions to ensure that it was distributed to law enforcement officers nationwide. [inaudible] we have officers still responding to that location, we're doing, what we dog, to bring about order and you'll see teargas and pepper balls and we're going to use appropriate methods.

[inaudible] yeah, i don't want to get into that right now. we're in the middle of this situation. our focus right now we need to let people know, that we're second extra resources, to make sure it's safe. and the people trying to get home from work can do so. [inaudible] that's something that we're going to figure out. rocks and bricks were being thrown and some have been injured and we'll make sure that another officer is not injured and we'll use teargas and pepper balls and as we can provide more information, thank you. that's baltimore city police captain. and, while you were listening, and watching that,

you also, have been watching the picture -- that were on the left full screen now another business being vandalized broken into, by young people, this check check-cashing store. i guess that's what that is. fastest refundeds and debit cards and get your checks cashed. and maybe some payday loans and this store being vandalized right now. john it continues. we're keeping a close eye and police in riot gear and that situation seems better, now than it was earlier. but, i want to come to you because i believe you're with a couple of gentlemen. i'm with two young men matthew and daryl, who have come up to our television position and, they want to tell you at

home, what it is like being a young african-american man living in baltimore. what happens to you guys? what makes you so angry that this would happen today? tell us? it's just the fact that the police, you know, they -- they discriminate against us. and, you know, america has stereotypes. which is somewhat understandable. but, up. you don't have to treat people, a certain type of way because you think they're that way already. what happens? what do they do? this happened to me, on plenty of occasions while i'm with my girlfriend and by myself, you get it, when you're by yourself. you know, they and you for your license and registration and, say can you step out of the car, if my license, is good, and, my tags are good, and -- no probable cause why do i have to

step out of the car? and pat me down, and i'm going with my club and it's humiliating, and for my kids or my nephews or whoever and it just -- it keeps the cycle going. daryl, what has happened to you? at the age of 15, i got right here, in my neck, i got beat up by police officersers and i asked for a badge number and, they beat me. i was 15 years-old and never went heard of or anything. this is one of the things, it's well known, in the city, you run from the officer in the city, and the punishment is to be beaten. if you run from them -- you better hope that you get away because that will be the worst day of your life and, the thing is, it's like, the police, they -- even though people say we have a law and we have you know we're supposed to obey this and that, when they get

you, one-on-one, by yourself, he is the law. he makes up what the law is. you get what i mean. it's not like, yeah, he has to go in his rulebook. no, the law is his own. you understand? looking at what's happened today. somebody just drove past us, and said i bet they will listen now. yes, this has been happening for so many years, freddie gray is one of -- of maybe -- martin and garner. and, keeping it to this city. he's one of one thousand, in the city, that's just gone unreported. and you hear about people like martin luther king, who stood up non-violence and stuff like that and there were so many different martin luther kings because they were assassinated before he got to reach a point

where people would listen to him. you get what i mean? i do. what -- oh my colleague tony would like to ask you a question. relay it. tell me, i want to know, from them why you tear up your own communities why you looted your own community? how are you? he's from baltimore, he says how are you? he's down with the city, his mom still lives here. why are they looting their own city? your own neighborhood. it's the frustration, it's not in. their own neighborhoods. i don't believe that violence should be you know, handled with violence. but, the frustration builds up because, this is not pa one time thing. if it was one time, this freddie

gray thing, that was out of the norm then, people would have no right to be, you know, missing up shops and looting stuff and when it keeps continuing, happening, it's like, what else are we going to do? we have to prove to people that we're not going to stand for this. and we have the message of building up, and let people understand we're not going to stand for this. and we'll do that. and we don't want to go to super far extreme and, we want our point to be proven, and we're human beings. and the thing is. it's a lot of people who are protesting, who has been through this before, who has been beat boy police and, they didn't die. so they got that. their anger builds up. one more point is that, there's two different terms of being beaten, of course when we

get stopped, we get roughed up, maybe punched once or twice. getting beat up to us is what happened to freddie gray. so it's a total difference. well, thank you very much for joining us. and so nice. thanks so much. so tony back to you. appreciate it. there was a lot to think about there. certainly, there shouldn't be 7 officers who are in a bad way who are injured. certainly shouldn't be an officer who is unresponsive, lord knows i understand frustration. and i understand the frustration that builds up over time in a city like baltimore where you can feel as though, you don't

have many options as all. but, expressing it in this way does not work. let's take a break and come back with more of our continuing coverage of the demonstrations and, violent in nature today in baltimore

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>> this is another significant development... >> we have an exclusive story tonight, and we go live... welcome back to al jazera. we saw a lot of police activity and vans, just before we went to break it looks like there's a bit of a staging there, in a parking lot. and the scenario mains tense. and west baltimore, of a violent clashes erupted between police and, riot gear and, you saw some of those pictures, of what is being described as mostly teens

and it's very stressful right now. police cars have been vandalized, and set on fire and 7 officers were injured. one is reportedly unconscious at the moment. and there was also a lot of looting. and, the picture on the left there, there was a check-cashing store that was looted. and earlier we saw people going into a drugstore earlier. not far all of this activity, not far from where freddie gray was arrested, and suffered a fatal spinal-cord injury, and thousands attended his funeral earlier today demanding answers, and what critics say is yet another instance of police violence against unarmed black men. and it has reopened a deep wound in baltimore.

and it is a scene with demonstrations and protest that's been repeated in cities across the country since michael brown's death. all over this issue of race, and, the use of force by police, and at this hour, we're standing by waiting for a news conference by the mayor and john is on the line with us, and thank you for your patience, and he is a retired captain, with the new jersey police and now a professor. good to have you with us and thank you. you have heard a lot of conversation since we last spoke, and i add lengthy conversation with the former mayor, and a professor these are pictures from earlier. are these live -- these are live pictures now of rocks still being thrown. looting going on as well.

john, give me your thoughts as you have been listening to a number of conversations play out ? why have they gotten so bad? why was this 9 im impetus for what we saw. the police department is an extension of city government. it's a extension of the mayor's office and it's merely one of several other departments in the city like health and human services and board board of education and the fire department, that are there to bring services to the community. so the question is, how did it get to this point where this episode became the impetus for what would he see? what i described earlier with the community policing movement, should have resolved a lot of these things, and policy advisory council's to the police director and the

mayor that should have been formed at that point, should have been taking information and you know, weekly or monthly basis to bring these problems to the forefront and resolve them through policy and strategy. that's something that i did in newark, for many, many years and i was adviser to the police chief and director and writing and revising policy and doing these sorts of these. it's painful to see that this is happening and the things that were described seem like there are irreconcilable differences between the police and the community. i think that there are things that are difficult to overcome, but what troubles me, is what sort of information is the police department taking in? what are they doing about it? and how are they feeding it back? a good example of what i'm describing has played itself out in the mid 1990s in, florida.

it was a model city, and it was touted as the epicenter of community policing and, they add riot themselves, right after a police officer shot and killed a black man, i think was to a motorcycle something had happened and that became the flash point for a riot there and so this notion of community policing has to be more than window dressing, and it has to be followed up, that. john great, let me pick up on a couple of points. you said you were involved in a lot of the discussions, and the information gathering, the give-and-take, and the back-and-forth between the police department, in newark, and, community members. so i'm sure reports were written and, there were recommendations, was any of that stuff acted on?

a lot of it was, and somethings could not based on the law. you heard about the bill of rights. we have something similar to new jersey and at the apex of that, you have pros cushion and a lot of people do not understand the constraints placed upon the police. the political and the social implications for policing are enormous, which is why you have a civilian police force, that is under these constraints instead of military. you have to have them and, they have to restrain themselves. can i ask a question. the scenario, that the form mer mayor of baltimore pointed out he was critical of that bill of rights. you can't, the mayor, you can't go up to ten days, before you tell authorities what

happened. that doesn't make common sense. do you see that that is -- yes, well you have two implications there you have a legislative implication, these things are passed, with the support of the legislator and the electorate, and you also have to remember, what we say to the police, we need you to do this difficult job for us, and at the same time, we're going to protect you and how much protection are we going to offer them? things like the bill of rights creep up because police officers don't get afforded the protection that they need, when they make split second decisions and someone in the safety and security of their library, come back and second guess them and say, well, no, we want you to do it this way and hold them accountable for something that they did in seconds and that's how they come about.

but if it happened, in seconds you have to it, it shouldn't take you ten days to say, this is what happened. here's the decision i had to make. and you know, and, i can -- the community can judge me on it. we understand that. they are not very good, explaining things and so, when you have community leaders in a room and, you're discussing policy, and trying to craft things, the obligation of the command staff, say these are the constraints that we work under and there are things that you must understand, that we can and can't do and there are obligations that we have to our officers and things that they don't have to divulge. and, those things are not adequately communicated. if they were, i think that would

go a long way to breaking down, the perceived injustice that occurs when a police officers exercises his fourth or fifth amendment right or invokes a provision of the bill of rights someone says, wow that sounds suspicious and that sounds sinister. people fill in the blanks with things that they think about, because the real information has not been given to them. and that information must come from the police department. it has to come from them. john, it's been great having your perspectestify. thanks. thank you. we'll get to john -- we'll get to john. and he has two members of thebassa ministers and these are voice that's we want to hear

from. so john, over to you. yeah tony, thanks very much. here we are with ron who organized the funeral and also, pastor carter, who pro-sided at the funeral. how do you think the funeral went. i would say that the service went extremely well. the family was pleased. and i want po believe that they found the source of strength, and comfort and all who came got a real blessing, and a real benedigs. they can't have expected to see what they saw. breaking the family's heart they're in the sense of mourning and it is distracted by unrest in our city. thanks to the leadership of doctor carter and others, we're convening in the next hour, the

leadership and minis thing to prepare a response and a peace march, and that will be occurring in the next half-hour. it appears as if, one high school emptied out. what can you tell us? that's the case, there seems to have been through social media, through some of the students at the highest school, the desire to create some unrest at one of the malls in the country. right here. and that's what seemed to have facilitated what's going on. most of those young high school students are nowhere to be found at this point as reverend has indicated the tragedy, that we're seeing now seems to have fallen into the hands of others, and that's what is happening. do you think this is outside agitate tor