for president of the yats. it prompted a ply from bill clinton: the response: that stands for first lady of the united states. i'm antonio mora, thank you for joining us have a great night. when the great recession struck in 2007 and 2008 it had a devastating impact on the economy. millions of families are making less money now than there were then and millions of others scraping by in permanently low-paying jobs. did too many jobs fail to pay a living wage. it's tonight's "inside story".

welcome to "inside story". i'm luis suarez. democratic politicians are fond of saying to their way of thinking, if you work full time you shouldn't be poor. if you are head of household working for minimum wage, you will be poor at least using the standards the federal government does to determine the poverty line. republican politicians whose support would be needed. is the national minimum wage a wage that hurts businesses and workers, because it leads to the elimination of low-skilled work. workers advocators point to low wagers. low wage work as a way of life is another, a tread meal making

it hard to climb out of poverty. is that a floor below which hourly wages shouldn't fall there is maths homework. baseball practice and dirty dishes. >> it's bad enough that i'm gonate hours away from the home picking up another shift. 15-16 hours. this woman works tirelessly trying to support a family of five works as a security guard, earning $30,000. half her pay check pays for this one bedroom apartment. i don't think we took anything out for dinner. >> reporter: in the kitchen, the never ending question of what to feedle family. >> reporter: what will you pull out of the freezer? >> i didn't think about it. >> she is one of 1 million angelinos living in poverty. according to the mayor office

if l.a.'s poor were their own city it would be the tenth largest in america, the third largest in california. anderson has it better than most. she earns a little more than minimum wage but barely gets by. in the city of l.a. minimum wage workers earn $9 an hour. the mayor wants to raise it to $13.25 by 2017. in subsequent years, it would be indexed to keep pace with inflation. >> raising the minimum wage is not without controversy. some argue it will increase unemployment, because small business owners that can't afford to pay a higher wage will be forced to close. >> they have the support of a number of raise the wage coalitions as well as u.s. labour secretary perez, in los angeles to push for a rise. >> when you talk about raising

the minimum wage being good for business. why do you think we have not raised it sooner? >> you look at the majority of businessesing an increase in the minimum wage. >> if it does not go up what do you think will happen to the people you are talking about, working 40, 50, 60 hours, and still have to go to a food pantry? >> we don't have a society where people work full time and live in poverty, that's not who we are. >> making a little more every hour, what difference would that mean for you and your family. >> making a little more would be a lot. i wouldn't have to work so hard. i could be able to be professional take care of my responsibility at work and come home and show my kids that i'm there for them and can take care of them besides the necessities

joining me now is dell von michael, the director of working families washington a group that advocates for a living wage in the capital. let's tees out the difference between what advocates like you call a living wage and the minimum wage which is the required hourly salary required by the federal government. >> the minimum wage equals a minimum life. a living wage is a wage in which people can take their kid to a ball game after working 40 hours and not be beneath the poverty limit. there's more that goes into that. >> what you would need to feed clothe yourself in the metropolitan area. what is the calculated living wage for where we are siting now. washington d.c. >> right now, it's $14.79. >> what is the minimum wage?

>> it's a long way off. $9.50. we have a lot of work to do. >> so that $5 difference. what difference does that make for someone working at a lunch counter in one of the nation's capital central business districts, driving people to doctor's appointments in an elderly cab service. those low-wage workers, that $5 gap, what difference does it make to their daily lives? >> the $5 gap is a difference between making difficult choices that most folks shouldn't have to make. whether it's do i feed my son an extra helping of vegetables or can i afford my beds or do we do something leisurely, can we see a ball game buy ice-cream. things that people do to enjoy themselves in life as opposed to running on a traed meal and

falling into the ranks of the working poor. >> a couple of blocks from where we are sitting is a row of restaurants busy during the lump time. many employ 15, 20, 25 workers. if you had to may an extra $5-hour across a 6-8 hour shift five days a week, that adds up to a lot of money. where does it come from? >> from people like myself and you. i'm willing to pay 15 crept for a big mack if i choose to eat that so others can live and live with dignity. it's something we should and must do. it's a priority. >> nothing more than a marginal raise in the price of the sandwich that you guy at one of the counters? >> very marginal. mcdonald's and wal-mart is possible. paying low wages and keeping families in poverty. it's not right. it's wrong that a lobbyist can

make 30,000 in a month, or a c.e.o. and wal-mart can make $30,000 in a day or a year. >> how do your members cope when they don't get that $5 raise. do they leave d.c. altogether. do they move to cheaper parts of the country. do they travel further and further to get to work. it's an expensive place to get an apartment. >> it's $1400 a month. people go without. they take three, four buses to get to work to make ends meet to cut off costs. it's a difficult existence, one that is beneath the dignity of human being. washington d.c. is the capital of the nation, not equality. that is the case now. a lot of people will make the case that in 2015 you have to

carry some of the blame for being in that circumstance, for not staying in school not asquaring a trade or skill, for not putting together a series of jobs that creates overtime a ladder where you're able to demand higher wages in the marketplace, is that fair? >> that is not fair at all? >> why not. >> we had a massive recession, the largest in the history of man, and it changed our economy. people are struggling to get by. it's difficult to make ends meet. and i think that gape again, we have the obligation to make it right. if you work a 40 hour a week job, you shut not be in poverty. >> you say most people are willing to spend a little more. where does the sequence of events break down. if most are willing to spend more so others can live better where is the disconnect. how come it's not happening?

>> it's right down the street in the capital, in congress. activists like myself take it upon themselves. there was 27 states that took this into their own hand and we in d.c. will have a ballot measure, we'll put a $15 an our measure on the ballot and it will get rid of the minimum wage phasing it in and hooking out for the brothers and sisters. so the dual economy, or the two-way, subminimum wage of people getting tips will be done away with. before we close, if you win that referendum will a lot of small besides close in washington d.c. >> this is the nation's capitals. if you pay the workers right, they'll spend more money. what is god for the workers is good for the country. >> thank you for joining us. >> arguments, for and against

raising the minimum wage for american workers when we return. it "inside story", stay with us. >> trafficked labor on the front lines? >> they're things, they're commodities... >> we go undercover... >> it isn't easy to talk at this base >> what's happing on u.s. bases? >> the tax payer directly pays the human trafficker >> fault lines al jazeera america's hard hitting... >> today they will be arrested... >> ground breaking... they're firing canisters of gas at us... emmy award winning investigative series... fault lines america's war workers only on al jazeera america

welcome back to "inside story". a wage in the hourly wages of low-paid workers would put money in their pocket that's for sure. what would happen in a neighbourhood, region. in a business with 5, 10, 15 workers, what would an hourly increase set off. ira is with u the editor of "future of capitalism.com", and dave cooper economic analyst from the economic policy

institute. let's go back to the luncheon et. you have the waiter and waitresses bus boys, dishwashers, cooks. they are going to make a couple of bucks more an hour cumulatively. the business will have to pay a lot more - not only in salary but payroll taxes, a percentage of that salary where does the money come from, what are the knock on effects of the money paid out. >> the first thing i would point out is the business owner is not facing the labour costs. because you are waging the minimum wage the competitors and businesses are facing an increase in labour no one business is put at a disadvantage to their competitors. when you raise the minimum wage and put more money in the pockets of those folks, they'll

go out and spend money as folks at wal-mart do. that leads to increased businesses for those facing higher labour costs. when the minimum wage goes up turn ever goes up. workers maybe work harder they feel better about the fact that they are making more and not only that they are not constantly looking for a new job. they don't need to find something at a neighbouring town or something else where they'll make an extra dollar or two. they can stay where they are and afford to live. that cuts down on costs for the business. it's expensive to have workers turn in and out of the job. it's expensive to recruit, hire and train folks. >> do those things get counted as easy and well as the raw figure do we count the productivity gains, the cost of

not having a churn of workers hooking for work as dave cooper suggests? >> i think a lot of intelligent businesses who are profitable enough to afford it are seeing that. we have seen in the last few weeks mcdonald's wal-mart, facebook announce that they are paying people a lot more than the $7.25 minimum wage closer to $10 an hour. maybe more. my view is we should let the businesses figure it out for themselves, rather than forcing them to pay more. if you force them to do it, it's a global economy, and some businesses may take a different view the guy in the diner who is making the hamburger paddies may be replaced by a worker in mexico, and, you know, the

frozen pre made hamburger paddies will come in on a truck from mexico. the dishwasher in the diner may be replaced by a mechanical dishwasher made in china, if you try to do a nationwide law, unless you knees a national wage, it's -- impose a national wage, which is hard to do it's hard to prevent jobs being shifted from overseas. >> it's a red herring. technological process is happening all the time. if employers find ways to save costs, they'll take it. the point is you want the jobs to remain to be decent. frankly, the jobs that are low wage retail and fast food they are not easily outsourced. we talk about globalization, and

outsourcing manufacturing jobs, it's easier to find workers because you can shift your products. you can't outsource a restaurant server you can't outsource a retail employee. >> what about the other point that it's almost out moded because localies are making minimum wage that the federal figure is less relevant than before. >> we need a federal flaw that provide a degent wage. you shouldn't have to win the geographic lottery wherever you live in the country. you should be able to make ends meet on work earnings is it different in san jose. >> certainly. when we look at the historical value, 45 years ago the minimum wage was worth 45% more at the federal level than it is today.

even though you have a lot of states and localities stepping up you have places in the country where workers are making less than a generation ago dave cooper an analyst with the economic policy institute and ira is editor of future--capitalism.com. i'll have a thought in a minute on a frozen argument. want to join in follow on twitter, facebook where are you a low wage worker or employer we'd love to see your story.

you're watching "inside story". the fight for giving americans a raise, joining he are ira,

editor of futureofcapitalism.com and dave cooper an economic analyst. we made an argument paced in fairness and raigsality. he said there would be more money around than everybody. is he right. >> according to that art we may raise the minimum raise to $100: raising minimum wage, some of the jobs will be replaced by technology. in some there was one if you wanted a human worker.

so it's a lot more complicated and the minimum wage is a blunt instrument. some by be middle class, you don't need to raise it minimum wage to help the poor families, you could raise to earn the why can tax so they can get higher paid jobs. i agree working poverty is a problem: . >> what do we know about the people earning the minimum wage. ira makes the point about paying to entry level workers, people starting their working lives and learning how to be workers.

a lot of people are not in that boat, are not there. >> this is a common miscon essential. it's teens working after school for spending money. the vast majority are adult. a quarter have children with family incomes that are low. this is not just kids making spending money, it's folks trying to raise families on wages that are low. >> he was exaggerating for emphasis, but ira asked why not raise everyone's wages to $100. there is a sweet spot isn't there, is there a law of diminishing returns that sets in after a dollar figure and it may be different to what it is in san francisco. but there's a point where it's

uneconomic to have a workers, doesn't it? >> we couldn't raise the minimum wage overnight to an astronomical figure. the point is it's a labour standard, in the same which we have standards saying you can't have child workers and you don't have to breathe asbestos on the job. the minimum wage says no matter who you are, where you are, you should be paid is fair wage. the art pointed is is by any standard in the federal minimum wage, it doesn't meet the definition, it doesn't qualify as a fair decent wage. as noted, at $7.25, someone working full-time could be on the poverty line wal-mart was mentioned, used in the context of fairness but we are making waltons rich with our tax many.

they are paying low prevailing wages and a lot of workers qualify for benefits that are paid for by all of us. >> well the ones getting rich not just because of tax dollars but americans are choosing to shop there. no one is forcing anyone to shop there. a lot of minimum wage workers shop there because the company is providing product at low prices which they like. it's interesting that mr marshall also admitted that the consequence of increasing the minimum wage was going to be higher prices. the prices hurt poor families more than rich families who can afford the higher prices. >> i understand your point about choice, but aren't people paying a hidden tax by taking wal-mart workers out of their tax many

giving them food stamps income tax credits. various entitlement programs that they qualify for because they earn so little on the job. well, that's better than the alternative of paying these people more welfare if they didn't work. you know i think the idea is that people get into the workforce, learn to show up on time acquire skills a lot of wal-mart managers and executives started out in minimum waning jobs same at mcdonald's. mrgs and franchise owners started out flipping hamburgers taking orders and that upward mobility is what we need to preserve in america. and if you cut out the entry level job for someone with low skills because you raise the wage too high and they are replaced with computers or

software programmers teaching computers how to do the jobs that the workers used to do. i think it could damage upward mobility gentlemen, stand by. any economic event sends a pulse of information that the economy an electric charge that makes other things happen. if a worker making $9 has to be paid $11 in a month, three months or six months what happens? it's "inside story". stay with us. >> it's not looking pretty. i gotta pay my bills. >> you gotta do somethin', you know? try to keep your head above water. >> sunday... $38. thursday... $36. for this kind of money i really don't give a s**t.

>> a real look at the american dream. only on al jazeera america. >> part of our month long look at working in america. "hard earned".

people who are against raising the minimum wage sometimes use old numbers that don't reflect the recessions impacts on the workforce, and say most earning the minimum wage are teenagers, it's a small percentage. minimum wage workers, with an average age of 35. a third are over 40. half work in leisure and

hospitality, one out of the seven are in retail. you can be sure people that earn the minimum wage would like to earn more. at a time where there's more job seekers than jobs. it puts downed ward not upward pressure on wages. what thing that opponents are right is not many earn the federal minimum of $7.25. a couple of million. when they get a wage so do others ahead on the ladder. if acts as a moving escalator for a lot of them.