weekend. . >> on my honor i will do my best. it's the way every boy scout and scout leader begins the official oath. two years ago the century-old organization relaxed its ban on gay scouts but not on adult volunteers who supervise them. recently the national president of the boy scouts told the group the country is changing and the ban on gay leaders should be lifted too. those fighting the change

question whether gay men and women can be as the scout oath promises morally straight it will scout's honor is tonight's story. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> welcome to "inside story." i'm ray suarez. boy scouts are central figures in american culture. over the last 100 years you've seen them everywhere, on public service projects in norman rockwell paintings marching in 4th of july parades and marching off to the woods to like and camp. i know because i did it. yeah that's me on the left. i've been involved with scouts in various capacities for most of my life and count the experience as one of the most important and formative in my

life. i'm an eagle scout as is my son. like the rest of the organization wrestled with religious beliefs and be sexual orientation. today gay youngsters are allowed to be scouts but gay member and men and women cannot serve as volunteers. just yesterday a call for change came from the top. >> on my honor i will do my best. >> when we spoke to them last year twin brothers had achieved the rare goal of becoming eagle scouts. that challenging honor bestowed to a little more than 1 in 20 scouts. but because liam be is 18 and gay his career in the scouts is over, first done in by a no gay members policy then by a reversal in the scouts only to bar gay leaders 18 and over.

>> it's been kind of rough growing up in such a cool organization and then at one point hearing that no we don't really want you. you know that's not cool. >> but now another change may be coming. >> but we will not ignore growing internal challenges to our internal policy. >> speaking at the national meeting, boy scouts leader robert gates said the situation cannot be sustained. >> i fear that any other alternative will be the end of us as a national movement. >> the former cia director and secretary of defense said now is the time for scouting to rethink its position. as boy scout chapters have spoken out against blanket ban about gay leaders. >> i would like to know what it is they don't like about me, and what their afraid of. i pose no thoorm anyone.

>> recent acts have made it too difficult to ignore the issue. in april a new york chapter of the boy scouts openly defied the organization by hiring a gay eagle scout to serve as a summer camp leader. >> we considered him on the basis of his application we have had a very strong antidiscrimination policy, this is not new and we are applying it here. >> stated passage of laws and court rulings in favor of gay marriage as events too big to ignore. >> the one thing we cannot do is put our heads in the sand and pretend this challenge will go away or abate. quite the opposite is happening. >> joining me now from iowa city is zack walls co-authorize of scouts for equality dedicated to ending, then ban on gay scout

masters, and the co-author of my two moms. zack walls let me start with you. when the policy was changed the with the of the boy scouts, robert gates said he wouldn't be revisiting the policy during his tenure at the top and then use the annual membership meeting to make that statement. what do you think's going on? >> well, dr. gates told us in his speech that he sees a shifting environment. now i think it's interesting note that the former director of the cia a spy master, couldn't even predict just how quickly the national environment surrounding lgbt rights would continue to change. but he cited in addition to a changing national environment internal chapters as you mentioned in the intro in new york city you saw the greater new york councils hire an openly gay eagle scout in pascal

tessier, who is going to be serving as a camp counselor at the ten mile camp this summer and other councils, including the denver council had also spoken out against the ban. definitely the shifting national environment and we know there's a big supreme court decision coming down this summer but it's an internal change and pressure coming from internally as well. >> roger gannon, your organization liberty council wants to keep the ban in place. what did you make of secretary gates statement and what do you think is happening behind the scenes? >> well, i think it's not surprising to anyone who is paying attention to what happened two years ago when the ban on openly gay members was first removed. we have to remember that the mission of the body scouts is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral decisions. boy scouts of america went all the way to the united states supreme court to defend what they call their timeless values

including moral opposition to homosexual practice. but what you see is the boy scouts making pragmatic decisions instead of morally based decisions it sets a terrible standard for its leadership it's a continuation really of the logical decision they made two years ago ago. >> with the promise to be morally straight, are you saying that it is incompatible with being a gay person to promise to be morally straight? can a gay scout leader be morally straight? >> well, first of all i think we have to look at the fact that scouting has never secluded anyone for having a same sex attraction. what scouting prohibited was open homosexuality or promoting homosexual practice among its leadership. we have conflicting world views

that are probably irreconcilable. homosexual practices are either morally wrong or it's morally right. boy scouts maintained it is not morally right. for open practice, that doesn't mean a scout leader has to be inserting sexuality into the conduct experience, when they do it crosses a line. and again the boy scouts call this a timeless value. timeless values don't change according to political whims or pressure from the human rights campaign or others. that's what the boy scouts of america has done is change its policy based on a pragmatic approach to appeasing the people who are putting pressure on it. i think it's morally incorrect it's not consistent with the moral values of the scouts historically to allow open homosexuality in scouting. scouting went to the supreme

court to defend its right to have that position. >> let me turn back to zack walls. zack for people who don't know the organization well, once you turn 18, you only can be an adult leader, you can't be a member anymore you would be what was called a scouter. can you live with the limitations you just heard roger gannon talk about there's training involved in being cleared to work with young people. do you hear his concerns? >> well, ray i think there are a couple of important points to make in response to what we just heard. the first and foremost of course the phrase morally straight was coined in the '50s to describe the phrase straight was first used in the '50s to describe heterosexuals. to use that phrase one way or the other morally straight, that wasn't what the phrase was

originally intended to mean. it was to be fair and level with someone. to include someone when he is 18 and to throw liam calabria out when he is 18 is not fair or level. the boy scouts are certainly making a pragmatic decision here and like a lot of other institutions in the united states of america they are going through an evolution in terms of their understanding of what morally straight means. and this includes you know the institution of marriage as we're seeing across the country including this upcoming supreme court case that is going to be a big deal. we've seen a lot of people improve and evolve in their understanding of how moral homosexuality is or is not. i think boy scouts are doing the same thing. the most important point to make is when it comes to discriminating once a scout turns 18, discrimination whether at any level at the national level, the regional level

whether it's because he's gay or straight discrimination is wrong and it sends a a destructive message to kids whether they're gay or straight. to carry out the mission do the right thing they have to stop sending the message to kids that discrimination is okay. >> zack and roger stay with us. americans increasingly comfortable with gay rights, is the boy scouts ban on gay leaders a relic, in the regions where the scouting movement remains strong, will the movement splinter rather than open its ranks to everyone? it's tonight's "inside story." >> for 6 months, the road outside the us embassy in yemen

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>> you're watching "inside story." i'm ray suarez. tonight on the program we're considering the policy of the boy scouts to seclude gay men and women from serving the organization as adult leaders. not too long ago the scouts changed the policy that secluded youth leaders. roger ganum. roger one of the things that the scouts talk about is a local option. that is some sponsors saying we will be a troop that doesn't welcome gay leaders while the troop downed the road may take them on. can you live with that? >> well, i think it's not a question of whether i could live with it. we know that the groups pushing this homosexual inclusion agenda on the boy scouts such as the human rights campaign are on

record saying that's not good enough for them. so this fight will not go away by extending a local option. the other problem with that is this: scouting rose to greatness with this help and support of churches and religious organizations that hosted scout troops. now typically those organizations are exempted from local nondiscrimination laws, regarding sexual orientation because of their sincerely held religious beliefs against homosexual conduct. if the organization such as the boy scouts adopts a permissive policy against homosexual conduct, it is going to put churches in a position of potentially secluding scouts in order to preserve their exemption to these local so-called nondiscrimination laws. it is unfair and amounts to a bee trail of the organization trust of white churches that

have hosted boy scouts since their inception and potentially putting churches in a position of secluding boy scouts altogether for church's ability to maintain its identity. >> a full 70% of holders of charters across the country zack walls are churches. not all churches have the same policy, they range from united church ever christ to the roman catholics who have not lifted the ban on homosexuals. could you as a local leader abide such an option? >> our position is less discrimination is better for organization and if a local option would move us in that direction we would of course support that step. but it is our belief that because discrimination sends a destructive message to young people and the entire mission of the boy scouts of america is to

instill the life lessons of scouting into young people that discrimination circulate not be taking place. i also want to stress it is not our position that people should be forced out of the program. if you believe that the values of scouting are timeless that its lessons are important you should want more people in the body scouts of america not fewer. that is precisely what we are advocating for. we believe our organization is stronger when it has more members more points of view. if you are going to have a policy that is going to take a step in lowering the amount of discrimination that is taking place that's a good thing but our work is not over as we have heard until we have full inclusion in the boy scouts of america. >> we began ocontact organizations that had officially taken a public position against lifting the ban. that included trail life u.s.a a scouting alternative organization the mairnl civil rights union -- the american

civil rights union the american family association the church of jesus of christ of latter day saints they all turned us down. roger ganum thanks for being on the program. but why do you think so many are running for cover on this item? i'm not a ferocious guy i don't think, i give everyone a shot but why is it such that so many organizations really didn't want to touch this issue? >> i really can't speak for other organizations but i think there's a strong sense in the faith community, in keeping the ban in place as were members two years ago that scouting was somewhat of a lost cause because it was predicted by many that this change of policy would

happen it would become complete. to be clear scouting has never discriminated on the basis of identity who a child is or who an adult leader is. it's only discriminated on the basis of conduct. every organization that is based on morals or for that matter, any organization that has issues on the course of conduct its mission.not simply character it's to prepare its members to make moral and ethical choices. the question is what is the identity of the boy scouts of america. it is not discriminatory to say this is our moral code, regardless of what your attraction he may be or who are. the boy scouts is making a conscious decision, an intentional decision to change the morals that guided it. once its morals changed two years ago a lot of americans

lost faith in it. >> thank you both. 70% of scout troops are sponsored by religiously aligned organizations and say those spofnsponsorships would be under threat. but scouting has lost financial support as organization he pull funding because of the gay-unfriendly policies. scouts honor is tonight's "inside story." story."

>> wire back with "inside story," i'm ray suarez. youth scouting is the official be program for boys with church of jesus christ of latter day saints. if the national organization

moves away from the ban of gay men and women as adult volunteers will it drop its charter, charitable and corporate support that support has taken a hit over this controversy. will corporations and charities come back if the ban on gay leaders lifted? kerry albright is chairman of the greater susquehehanna united way. >> we were very proud of that partnership and for decades we defended our position in defending the boy scouts because we have always had criticism from the community . we've had universities in the area where we get the loudest the most vocal are funding the boy scouts from that area and we defended our local council knowing that they did not ever

practice discrimination, practically speaking. but they do align themselves with the national policy. and the national policy is something they would uphold if they had to. and that did not align with our policy locally at our united way. >> so the united way of the susquehanna valley eventually pulled its funding for scouting? >> yes we did when they changed their policy in 2013 from banning both gay adults and gay youth to just banning gay adults we had a large discussion a long discussion at our board level about how we're going to continue our partnership with the boy scouts. and it was a close vote but our board decided to defund the boy scouts to the point where our policies align again. >> how much do you give boy scouts in a given year?

>> i tell you it had gone down every year for the past ten or 15 years. most recently we funded them about 20, $25,000 a year. but it had been once at one point around 30, 35, $40,000. we're a small local united way in a conservative area in pennsylvania. and our local council is partnered with i believe every united way in our area at some point so we all funded them and some of us have just pulled back funding over the last two years. >> right about that time you described where they made the distinction between boy members and adult leaders merck chipotle, cat pill her and lockheed martin many went along in pulling their support for the scouts. did they talk to you did they come and make their case and try to stay on your list of designees? >> actually they didn't. our local council just decided

to stop communicating with us which was a frustration. ups, verizon, there are many international companies that pulled their funding. and we tried to get the scout council leader to speak with our board, and they just opted to not speak. i think that their position was very difficult. because while they did not practically ever practice compluksexclusion, they would if they had to. i want to go back to one of your guests statement about practicing homosexuality you and i don't openly practice heterosexuality. how does that play out at a scout meeting? that wasn't brought up earlier. the whole foundation of this argument if you believe gay is a choice or do you believe that you're born with being gay or lesbian, that is i think the

foundation of the whole argument. we believe that people are who they are. and who they're supposed to be. at united way. and the -- who we love has no bearing on our character. and it's very important to our board and our local united way that we push forward greater access to the scouting program. the boy scouts is a great organization. you know yourself, you're an eagle scout and it's a great organization that helps a lot of kids. and why would we want to support an organization that puts up barriers to getting more kids into that program? we just can't rationalize that. >> having said that would you be willing to reopen the conversation reopen the relationship if the national council of the boy scouts changed their position and allowed local chapters to do the same? >> absolutely. we would. in fact we've tried to maintain a relationship with the boy scouts on different levels

instead of just being a funding partner or refunder of the boy scots we've invited them to do other things with us in the country, taking programs to the prisons, for example do other things with the boy scouts, rather than the relationship be based solely on the funding. >> carrie albright, thank you. in a few minutes i'll have some final thoughts. stay with us. with us. >> on hard earned, inspiring new beginnings... >> these workers got the fight in them, they just don't know it. >> facing up to old demons... >> i am really really nervous... >> lives hanging in the balance... >> it's make or break... i got past the class... >> hard earned pride... hard earned respect... hard earned future...

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only on al jazeera america >> that was the boys from troop 234 in 1973. in april it's trea years since the night i got my eagle medal one of the greatest nights of my young life. when the eagle medal was pinned on my son's uniform 30 years later, i got to feel that pride once again. as the scouts wrestle with what to do with gay members and gay volunteers highest rewards to

boys who had achieved the requirement, but realized late in their achievements that they were gay. as scouting tries to thread the needle on adult gay leadership, one of the great attributes of the program is had always been that boys from very different families, different places, could share scoutenning its principles and very little else with people across the ideologic spectrum threatening to withdraw its support it's a very different question, whether we can preserve the love of country, preserving the outdoors preserve the quality of men and still disagree on the presence of gay volunteers and still stay united in scouting. i'm ray suarez. thank you for joining us on "inside story."

>> saudi arabia says it's repelled one of the biggest houthi attacks in its territory since the war in yemen began. hello, and welcome to al jazeera jazeera, i'm elizabeth peranem. tariq aziz dice at the dies at the age of 79. opposition rally in turkey just days before the parliamentary election. and