you can find out much more on our website, aljazeera.com. i'm ali velshi, on target, calling for back up. troubled police departments ask for help as they try to reform the ranks and weed out bad cops. upped the gun - police officers put to the test with split second decisions on the use of deadly force. there's a new mandate for the nation's police development. evolve now. i will bring you police chiefs from across the country and take

you inside some of the most intense police training you will see. the changes demanded across the country are a result of case after case of excessive use of force, outrage erupted over deadly incidents including eric garner in new york, walter scott in south carolina, and freddie gray in baltimore. to be clear, the police are not awes to blame. and those demanding easy sans and scapegoats will not find them here. in fact, toward the end of the show we'll walk in the shoes of a police officer that has though make a split second life decision of the type i hope none of us hope to make. the calls for change continue, as do the calls for real transparency and answers. one major problem is a lack of data. from 2003 to 2009 there were almost 5,000 arrest-related deaths much there's no comprehensive national database

where this television is gathered. a report by amnesty international found all 50 state filed to comply with international standard on the use of deadly force. specifically that lethal force is only used as a last resort. as required by international law. a handful of trouble police departments are volunteering for something called the collaborative reform initiative, cri. philadelphia, baltimore, st. louis, spokane, washington and los angeles invited the department of justice to come in and scrutinise their police departments. the department of justice spend about 18 months gathering information, offers reforms and gets out. as the trouble police departments call for back up from the federal government. a number of critics charge chi is merely a toothless way to

placate an outraged government. can a voluntary initiative be expected to reform a culture of policing? to find out, paul beban embedded with the spokane police, in the midst of their own collaborative reform following troubling incidents. >> we are sorry for what happened. >> reporter: a public apology from a police chief, not something the city of spokane heard before. >> it is time to begin the healing process. >> reporter: the chief was hired in 2012 to turn around a police department mired in misconduct, lack of transparency and clig after an innocent man was killed by police. >> i think communities and individuals can appreciate someone saying "i blew this." i think that to some degree we have to get over ourselves. >> reporter: this gas station, store is where a mentally

disabled man was beaten, hogtied and sat on by police. he died of his injuries two days later. an officer involved is serve 4 years in prison. it was a low point. >> it was a low point. >> reporter: rick represented the man's family in a lawsuit against the city of spokane and the officers. >> it revealed use of force policies were antiquated. we did not have an over site, policies and trainings were inadequate. and governments. >> reporter: it's a story repeated too on. an incident involving prosecutors to be excessive use of for by the police. the result, an outraged community, both left with more questions. the community did not trust the

police. you came into a heated atmosphere, a sense that the system was broken. >> yes. >> there was tension between the police and community over this unresolved incident. months after he was hired, i called the department of justice and asked them to come in and do returns. >> reporter: to ask someone to come in and say take a look at what we do means you open yourself up for criticism. ron davis heads up the branch of the d.o.j. >> the phrase we have, the truth hurts. selected ignans is fatal. there are similar programs in baltimore and philadelphia, and the idea is to fix what is broken in law enforce. and prepare a frayed

relationship. do the programs fix problems or are they little more than a cover story aimed at placating an angry community? >> the perception is you have a nice document, you checked the bombs, it's done. >> you know, i think that's a possibility, that you can look at this as i checked off the boxes, thank you, leave me alone now. i think what we are seeing across the country is a group of police leaders that are either in place or merging, who completely understand that we have to change the way we do business. that there can never be an us and them. there's no prove the voluntary collaboration with the d.o.j. works. >> we have little data on the effectiveness of the programme in building community trust, and

facilitating long-term meaningful reform, and sustaining that reform. >> you hear a lot about police reform, but how do you quantify it, make sure the changes are sticking. what spokane is trying to do is track the data from police contact through the courts through to the gaols. >> we are looking to create report cards or metrics that the community can log on to and look and see what is happening. >> jacky is an academic at washington state university who is creating a 9-point system. >> police are reporting back saying things are better, here is evidence. >> get your hands off me. >> one of the most challenging d.o.j. recommendations - collecting data that proves the use of force training

works. today officers are getting crisis intervention training. ill. >> steve is another academic from washington state university and is embedded with the police to collect cold-hard data to see if the reforms are working. >> a problem is it's never really been studied. we have a lot of anecdotal data, and stories of an another being well trained tore performing on the street. study. >> reporter: james runs a state of the art use of force lab, and gathers almost real-life data in real time. >> sir, sir. >> reporter: wow, that wept so fast. i'm here to go through some of the same tests cops go through in the simulation lab. kidding.

>> absolutely, that's how quickly it can go wrong, when it comes to things that are tragic, like the use of deadly force. what can we expect from our officers under the stresses and time pressures, and you experienced yourself. what can we expect from a human being. when we find that answer, that's the level we should hold him accountable too. >> reporter: they are tracking the whole process, even how field. >> i can't leave until i get that information. residence. >> it is. >> we can measure the use of force an officer has, writing a report whenever firing a weapon, using pepper or taser. >> she seemed like she was high. mouths. >> we have to understand the totality of the circumstances,

what the officer knew at the time. what time under. >> reporter: use of force in spokane has gone up steadily because police are including more encounters. the promising sign in 2013/2014 is that the incidents are down 22%. it will take time to prove a culture of policing can be changed. the chief is optimistic. i don't want to overuse the eesha of tipping point. that's where we are. we are at a tipping point in our history. if we do this right, and get it right, we will profoundly change the nature of forward. paul beban joins me. any sense of how this is going in spokane? >> the reaction is trust but verified. there's acknowledgment that things are getting better, but there's a long way to go.

a good example is mrs. relations with spokane's small minority community. there's a disproportionate number. and african-americans are less than 2% of the population. they are interacting more. they are not closely roasting them more, but people want to see improvement. >> stick around, you are coming back to show us the reaction you had when you were training, what happens to a police officer that has to make a plate second decision that hopefully you and i never have to make. next, i do one on one with philadelphia police commissioner charles ramsay, he he plans to diffuse the divide between police and community.

is it really possible to rebuild trust between an angry community and the police. dozens of departments committed to reform hope so. including the philadelphia police department. [ chanting ] an example of a mistrust at a town hall meeting in march. protesters had to be removed. yelling and throwing chairs angry over a decision not to charge philadelphia officers in the killing of a young black man. in

2013 philadelphia's crime as plummeting and police shootings sky rocketing. police commissioner charles ramsay called for the department to volry engage, and has cochaired a national task force on policing and come up with ways to bring back trust between the police and community thank you for being with us. you are a black man in a city with a black mayor. your police force is one-third black. you said you had difficulty recruiting minorities, despite a starting salary where you put benefits into it. >> we had a variety of challenges when it came to recruit of course, but in particular minorities. i don't know if it's the climate we are in where policing is not attractive to some in the minority community.

i wept though that in the 1960s and decided to become a member of law enforcement. it was through challenging times. we haven't been able to figure out that. we have worked towards changing recruiting strategies to target specifically african-americans latinos and others. >> you started, 46 years you've been a police officer, started in chib chicago. you were the police chief in washington d.c., and now philadelphia. they had a problem with the high number of firics and killing. 52 shootings, 16 killed. 2013, 2 shootings, fortunately 4 people killed. things are getting better. what has changed. >> well, our tactics, training.

we do everything we can to make sure that officers only resort to deadly force as a last resort. they do have tasers available to them now. oc spray. less than lethal options, sws a lot of focus on de-escalation, using words in order to de-escalate a volatile situation. anything we need to do to bring a situation under control. fortunately, so far, we have downward. >> there are no - you may have heard me say this, there's no standard on the use of deadly force by police officers. stay laws do not require deadly force. nine states, including washington d.c., where the police chief have no laws on the use of deadly force, is it time to spsh a law or understanding

national lay about when officers should use deadly force, or not? >> well, i mean, we have 50 states and each has its own set of laws governing police use of force. i don't see that changing any time soon, there's different nuances in the law between states and so forth. i can tell you this. the major city chief associations, police executive, and major organisations are working hard to come up with best practices and standards that police chiefs are referring to to set the right policy, put in place the right kind of training, so that we make sure that our people are out there, and even though there's dangerous situations, they tactics. >> you called the department of justice, i think it was may,

2013, to engage in the collaborative reform. in march they issued this report, with 91 recommendations to fix use of force problems. some say the collaborative or voluntary reforms are the way to placate the community. how are you going to prove that you can make the recorpse stuck and change things. we saw video from a meeting in march. where people were throwing chairs, yelling at the police. we are pretty far from both sides coming together on this. we are serious about implementing reforms. we have collaborative reforms, and the task force and we have possibilities of implementing those reports. we are serious. before i came to this taping, i

had a meeting around our progress, that we are making in terms of the various recommendation. the mayor put in place an oversight board. police use across the country is soars about this. how there are going to be critics and people that are cynical about what we do. same will tell. one thing is clear. neither the public, the media and within our ranks will we have a situation where we can afford to take our foot off the pedal. there's a lot of violence directed to police. i've been a chief in philadelphia, i've had eight officers killed in the line of duty, five shot to death. the most recent march 5th of this year, shot to death by two guys committing an armed robbery. so we have a lot of issues.

it's not just about police, it's about community and dealing with the violence in those communities, can't overlook that. >> do you think we've been unfair, do you think we have created an atmosphere of tension for your police officers. >> listen, it is what it is much what we have to do is take a look at the picture. what is it that police officers are facing on a daily basis. we talk about a disproportionate number of stops, there's a disproportionate amount of crime and victimisation. everything doesn't fall in line with sensis. we have to take a realistic look at this, and whereabouts people are upset and angry about a police shooting, i had 105 homicides in philadelphia. 82% committed with firearms and more than 80% african-american. where is the outrage around that. if we are serious in dealing

with crime and violence, and no matter who is responsible, we need to be serious and deal with the day to day violence taking place in our communicate yis, and it's not police doing it chief ramsay, good to talk to you. charles ramsay the philadelphia police commissioner. we'll continue this discussion - to shoot or not to shoot. as paul beban discovered, the moment. >> wow, that was fast. you weren't kidding. >> absolutely. >> bold... >> he took two m-16's, and he crawled... >> brave... >> ...do what you gotta do... >> then betrayed... >> why do you think you didn't get the medal of honor? >> a lifetime without the honor they deserved... >> some say that it was discrimination... >> revealing the long painful fight, to recognize

some of america's bravest... >> he say.. be cool...be cool... >> ...proudest moment in my life.. >> honor delayed a soledad o'brien special report only on al jazeera america

so when is it appropriate

for an officer to engage in deadly use of force. there's no laws about when it's okay. amnesty international says nine states have no laws on it whatsoever. the rule of thumb is this - if an officer feels his or her life or the life of another is in danger the use of force is appropriate. i want to show you more from paul beban's experience from the washington state use of force lab. he encountered real scenarios, and learnt there are grey areas in which to shoot or shoot. >> reporter: this simulation will measure my rehabilitation, whether i use force and what my brain is doing all the while. so i'm just going to watch what is happening and reacting. >> absolutely. try to put yourself in the shoes of a law enforcement. only use deadly force if you feel your life or someone else's is in deadly threat. >> reporter: okay.

>> he's been called to a domestic disturbance. >> reporter: yes. >> and the spouse is abusive and there are weapons in the house. this is one the faster paces simplified shoot, don't shoot. >> reporter: sir, sir, sir. sir, sir, sir. [ gunfire ] >> reporter: wow, that went so fast. my heart is pounding. i didn't respond to any voice command. kidding. >> absolutely. that's how quickly these things can go wrong. >> how do you feel you did? >> very poorly. the woman got shot and i thing i got shot. >> with this it's almost impossible to save her. the weapon comes out.

the weapon is there there's a decision cycle - is this a deadly threat, am i justified to use force, and all of that takes time. with that, there's no time - i've never seen anyone save her. >> reporter: the most you can do is take him down before he takes you down. >> i'm shaking. >> i see that. >> let me take this off. >> reporter: we are hearing so much about use of force lately in the use, what do we know about use of force training, how well does it working not work. outcomes. >> it's never really been studied. we have a load of anecdotal data, and officers being well trained. study. >> reporter: use of force, there's not a wide definition. >> every state has their own, but it boils down to what a reasonable officer, given the

information known at the time, utiliziingan appropriate level of force. >> there's so much grey area. >> absolutely. when you consider the decisions and evaluations of whether or not there's force required, if so how much, we have a duty as a society to get it right 100% of the time. in reality, it will be difficult to do. there'll be tragedies. >> i watched you do that. you knew what the story was. it is important to tell that part of the story, that there are many police officers faced with these decisions and they mite not get it right. that? >> steve james, the instructor, who is so knowledgeable says bring out your inner cop. i learnt i have no inner cop to bring out. it is incredibly difficult. steve is tracking every decision, every data and variable that goes into the last

moment when an officer decides to use force - how much training, experience in the field, what were their stress levels, how much sleep had they had. all playing a role in what happens as to whether or not the trigger. >> the problem is lot of police kept have that experience until the first time you are confront with it, someone that will you. >> that's right. >> it sort of changes. you reported on the issue of police and violence and guns and communities for a while. this has to add to your wealth of knowledge about this. >> it does. obviously i'm not a trained police officer, i'm familiar with firearms and am a good shot. i felt good, but performed terribly. steve said no one saved the women. i took three or four bullets, i may have hit her when trying to bit the perpetrator.

it's difficult, these things unfold quickly. no matter what training you had, it will be difficult. >> thank you, paul beban. that is the show for today. i'm ali velshi thanks for joining us. have a great weekend. >> the policemen who kill. for the first time, members of kenya's death squads speak publicly about assassinating suspects.