and wet. once the tide rose it swam away to meet its pod which stayed in the area waiting. this is this edition of international news. i will see you again in an hour. >> on "america tonight": shots ring out and the debate over gun violence and gun control echo again. away from the headlines "america tonight's" sarah hoye continues the high cost of a gunshot. >> reporter: what would you say at the end of the day was that total bill from start until now? >> almost like $10 million. >> $10 million? >> $10 million on a lot of drugs lot of machinery. home health care nurses. it was real expensive. >> also night highway robbery?

>> this guy has 3,000 alone. >> he said what are you going to do with all the money? he says we're going to las vegas to help my sister. have some fun. >> cash as evidence, even if there's no evidence of crime. thanks for joining us i'm joie chen. innocent until proven guilty, it is the very basis of our system of justice except when things don't work out that way. consider civil asset forfeiture, it allows to seize property, they think could have been the ill gotten gains of illegal activity. it is a powerful tool that can benefit cash strapped communities but it can be abused too. used even against those who have never even been charged with a crime. "america tonight's" lisa fletcher found some calling for aned to it in september. >> reporter: in september of

2010 stephen skinner and his son were driving from chicago to las vegas, nevada. there skinner was going to help a family member remodel her home. he and his son also planned to do some gambling. on the way their gps accidentally redirected them to las vegas, new mexico instead. within a few miles of crossing into the state they ran into trouble. >> i'm doing five miles an hour over the speed limit the state trooper pulls us over and asked if he could search the car. i said sure you could search the car. >> reporter: that search didn't turn up any weapons or drugs, but did discover something else, $17,000 skinner and his son had in their luggage for their trip. >> this boy has $3,000 alone. >> he said what are you doing

with all this money? i said, we're going to las vegas to help my sister put her life back together and have some fun my son and i. we're going to vegas. >> reporter: after two and a half hours of aggressive questioning, the cops let the skinners and their money go but their ordeal was just beginning. further down the road in albuquerque they were stopped again. this time the local police accompanied by federal agents. >> they wanted went immediately to the money because they knew where it was. >> they took the $17,000. >> they took 17,000. >> what crimes were you charged with? >> we weren't charged with any crime at all first or second stop. >> what reason did they give you for taking your money if they didn't charge you with a crime? >> they didn't give us any reason. >> in the united states, you are innocent until proven guilty.

>> right. >> but it seems the opposite. >> dropping them off at the albuquerque airport they were stranded with no money and no transportation. skinner and his son were victims of a controversial law enforcement practice known as civil asset forfeiture. under it local police often working in cooperation with federal authorities can seize people's money and property simply based on the suspicion it might be tied to a crime. since 2001, nationwide, police have taken more than $2.5 billion in cash from people who have never been charged with a crime. >> i went to college here at new mexico state university. >> brad cates is a prominent new mexico attorney. we met him at his ranch in las cruces. >> an row caited by the veryabrogated

by the issue of asset forfeiture. most seizures are $30,000. they're way lower than $30,000. secondly last i checked it's legal to own money in america. you're allowed to own the money travel with the money and in order to take the you're supposed to have a federal judge get a warrant. >> coming from cates some might find that strange. coming from cates as a high ranking official who helped establish the aggressive use of civil forfeiture. >> what was going through your head in 1983 that made you think this is a good idea? >> the war on drugs. we were seizing millions and millions of dollars from international drug dealers. now there are 400 federal laws for which you can invoke asset forfeiture. so we went from a very targeted specific purpose to a

widespread program in america. >> that was never your intention. >> no, no. >> now as a result of cases like the skinners, new mexico has become the first state to abolish civil forfeiture outright. cates helped legislators write that law. >> you want your thumb print on the fix? >> very good yes yes. >> denying he's getting soft on crime, cates points out the new law be focuses on criminal forfeiture. >> in america you're not a drug dealer or a pedophile or a bank robber until you get caught and convicted with the jury of peers. >> those in favor of civil asset forfeiture particularly those in law enforcement say the legislature here at new mexico state capital acted hastyily in

enacting this bill. the chief of police in the town of edgewood. >> what percentage of seizures do you think were righteous seizures on the part of law enforcement? >> would i say the vast majorities of them were legitimate. there's not a lot of people that have hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash when they're driving do down the ohio. >> while he says exact numbers are hard to come by, he is confident that most forfeitures by departments like his were justified. for new mexico police, he says, there were rules. >> we always had to go and make our case to a district court judge. and they would make the decision on -- based on whatever's presented to them both by us and the persons that the money or the vehicle or whatever was taken from. >> but then it becomes their responsibility to prove themselves innocent and get their money back? >> we still had to show the

court that we took that money for a reason. >> reporter: do you think it's fair? >> absolutely. >> he also seize another problem with the law. beyond the loss of a powerful deterrent it means a loss of a large source of revenue for police departments. a hole he says will be hard to fill. >> it also prohibits federal money from coming back to a local agency. >> so if you were working with d eamplet on a case and assets were -- dea on a case and assets were for forfeited -- >> whether it be vehicles whether it be equipment whether it be overtime money. >> that's exactly the part of civil forfeiture critics see as a conflict of interest leading to wrongful seizures. >> we always try get every once in a while like maybe a good car. >> this video is their exhibit numb 1 speaking is henry

conley then city attorney for las cruces, new mexico. he gloats gloats about the ability to seize a expensive car. expresses envy about the forfeiture in philadelphia. >> 800 cases $500 a pom is just a mind blower. >> and jokes about a recent enough article. >> the article what's yours is there is, itheirs. i wanted to turn around and say what's theirs is yours. >> after this video conley resigned. >> not an appearance of impropriety. >> the new law doesn't mean civil forfeiture is over in new

mexico. the ban doesn't apply to federal law enforcement and despite a pledge earlier this year by former attorney general eric holder to curtail the practice at the federal level it's still going strong. from 2008 to 2013, the government took nearly $7 billion in cash and property under civil forfeiture. more than 90% of that would still have been eligible for seizure. >> this boy has 3,000 alone here. >> boy? you're 58 years old. >> 58 years old. people have got some money on that. >> as for steven skinner he and his son eventually got their money back only after the aclu fought on their behalf. since it was local agents that took their money they never had a hearing in court. others simply stay the loss. we asked both the new mexico

department of safety and the department of justice to comment for this report and both declined. did you ever in your wildest dreams think that morning when you got up to drive to las vegas that this was the situation you'd be in? >> not in my wildest dreams i'm a citizen worked and never got in trouble and never had the idea that this would happen. >> "america tonight's" lynch is here. so least -- lisa fletcher is here. so lisa the abolishment of civil forfeiture outright, do other states have other conditions. >> a lot of them are looking to new mexico to think about change their laws, specifically wyoming, michigan, texas. but what's significant about the outright abolishment they can't civilly take someone's property, it can only be of criminal circumstances. you have to be convicted of a

crime before they can take your assets or your assets have to be used in the commission of a crime. convicted or used in the commission of which is a huge change. a sweep change for new mexico and the first in the united states. >> when you think of what might be legitimate in civil forfeiture, after all i do hear of police departments that acquire a fast vehicle that becomes part of their arsenal of drug crime and speeders, it is beneficial to police departments and to communities. >> well, the financial resource he are no doubt beneficial and the police officers that we spoke to, the chief that you saw in the story they all say yeah there is an economic upside to this because our budgets are tight. >> absolutely. >> but none of the police officers that we spoke to want to be taking people's things illegally. while they say we've made mistakes and that can happen i don't believe and i don't think most of our viewers believe that police officers want to can that. the truth of it is when i talk

to attorneys who represent these folks they say honestly it's about 50-50. 50% of these people, they say there are no hard and fast statistics probably got the money through illegitimate means. >> in the case of steven, he was hoping to use his cash for gambling or helping out. there were no critical reasons but definitely must be more serious circumstances. >> a case of someone in virginia who was a restaurateur, got pulled over for a minor traffic violation. fast forward two years he finally got his money back but that was money that he needed to run his business pay his overled and he ended up losing his business and that story is atypical. >> "america tonight's" lisa fletcher. thanks. firing line.

a community's choice on gun control and the state's rights. later, paying the price even when shots don't kill, the pain lasts for life. and hot on "america tonight's" website now summer camp with a twist. teens learning new skills in how to battle abortion rights. at aljazeera.com/americatonight.

>> we fast forward to a keenly played outsceneplayed out before. a man shot and killed two women

and injured nine others before turning the gun on himself. "america tonight's" christof putzel. >> rick bunker considers himself to be a responsible gun owner. >> you keep your guns locked upper? >> yes i do, i have a nine-year-old, and i have a gun safe. >> you would report a gun being stolen? >> yes, would i report it to the police because i don't want my gun to be hurting anyone. >> bunker owns half a dozen guns and enjoys hunting. he requires his home town of jenken town pennsylvania. >> it didn't say you couldn't own them and what kind. it dit restrict my ability to happily own guns and use them in

any way i wanted to. just said if they're lost or stolen report it to the police. >> reporter: despite his support for jenkintown's law as vice president of the town council he voted to rescind it under threat of a lawsuit. intense lobbying by the national rifle association passed act 192 allowing organization he like the nr arch to sue cities and towns over local gun restrictions. >> they gave us a choice between financial solvency and safety, really. >> jenkinintown mayor ed foley. >> we have a very small budget in this town and we really can't afford to defend a lawsuit against an organization with deep pockets like the nra so we really had no chance -- no choice but to rescind this ordinance and to take it off the books. >> reporter: with an annual

budget of only $6 million jenkintown simply couldn't risk costly litigation, which would be require them to cover their opponent's legal fees. >> legal means by which the nra challenged the town's ordinance is unconstitutional. after 192 passed many towns repealed their ordinances including jenkintown which is now reconsidering reinstatement. >> shots fired and the shattered lives left behind, "america tonight's" sarah hoye considers the cost of a but even bullet even when they don't kill. >> every tuesday night. >> i lived that character. >> go one on one with america's movers and shakers. >> we will be able to

see change. >> gripping. inspiring. entertaining. talk to al jazeera. only on al jazeera america.

>> after gun fire tragedy the facial conversation we've seen returns again and again that a controlling firearms, more regulations, stricter enforcement, a debate we've blade out so many times seems to have lost its fire power. the focus is on lives lost, overlooked is that most gun shot victims survive their wounds and what might change those repeated arguments over guns and control may be a more frank consideration of a cost of a bullet often that, here is "america tonight's" sarah hoye. >> it was july 27th, 2005. it was a mighty day great day i got paid that day. asking me questions about the

job we were talking the shot rang out.about. >> reporter: derrick owens was just 20 years old when a stranger shot him twice when he was on his way home from work. >> worst pain i ever felt, i couldn't make a sound i was burning like hot lava. >> doctors confirmed he would never walk again. >> i was doing everything i wanted and from doing that from being waited on hand and foot almost like a child again. >> reporter: when it comes to gun violence what gets attention is those who die. often overlooked is those who live and the enormous cost of those who go with it. gunshot wounds are the largest costcost lifetime be easily growing

52 the millions. remainder needing to be covered by his disability and medicaid benefits. >> if you were to add it alt up what would you say at the end of the day was that total bill from start, to now? >> looking at like almost like $10 million. >> $10 million? >> $10 million seriously because my first year i accumulate almost like $2 million worth of bills and that's just back and forth in the hospital, the initial surgery i lost a major organ so i was back and forth under a lot of drugs lot of machine i had pick lines in my arms, sent home with home care nurses i.t. was expensive. >> director of the trauma center at advocate medical center the same hospital that owens was taken. daugherty says the majority of people who are shot live. >> if you look at the numbers

from chicago roughly one fifth of the patients who are shot are homicides, but there are a lot population of individuals who survive gunshot wounds. and beyond the injuries many of these patients have long term health problems. >> reporter: a university of chicago crime lab study puts the cost nationwide up to $1 billion a year with shootings in the windy city alone costing $ $200 million a year. >> not unusual of having an acute care hospital stay of over $1 million. >> over $1 million. >> and where the patient has no insurance that's charity carefree from the hospital. >> annual firearm injuries end up costing $645 per gun in america. and are auditor daugherty says it's

not who you think is paying the price. >> there's a theory that all trauma patients deserve to be shot they are all gang bangers. that's not necessarily true. the shooting itself did not necessarily relate around a gang related incident. a majorities of our patients are innocent victims. >> in may, michael brown was driving in chicago's suburbs when he heard the window crack. >> it felt like someone had punched me in my left shoulder in the back. but i knew it wasn't just a punch. because it knocked me over and i slumped over the wheel. >> reporter: the 57-year-old father of two had been hit by a stray bullet. >> i'm not a gang banger. i'm not a thug. you know i'm a teacher you know. and i'm thinking, well why would someone want to shoot me? you know. sand i guess i figured out it was just an act of random

violence. >> reporter: that bullet would leave brown without the use of his arms or legs. changing his life forever. brown had taught high school math for 34 years. and pastored for 17 at the church he founded with his wife. losing his place at the pull pet may prove to be his biggest cost of all. how hard has it been for you not to minister? >> i get a little emotional when i talk about it. because i -- ministry is my life, you know? and to not be able to stand there and do what god has called me to do, it just -- it's just i can't describe it. because it is hard wrenching. >> reporter: it's been nearly a decade since derrick owens was shot. he lives with his sister on a modest home on the south side that's not wheelchair accessible

but he insists on doing most things himself. >> i see most people in the area are in wheelchairs especially in the englewood neighborhood. this time will pass, it will change. we are experiencing it, but the sun shall shine again. it definitely will. >> but the price for bullet that cut him down is one he's still paying. sarah hoye, al jazeera chicago. >> and a price in a way we all pay. that's "america tonight," tell us what you think at aljazeera.com/americatonight. talk to us on twitter or facebook and come back. we'll have more of "america tonight," tomorrow.

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>> i'm david schuster in for ali velshi. "on target" knit, naturing debt. it's bad enough when a stranger steal your energy, what happens when parents use your identity to rack up bills one apology at a time. this week we've been shining a bright light on something called the dark