the powerless people who are kept in jail for want of a few hundred dollars. they are the people who suffer just because they're too poor to purchase their liberty before their trial. i'm ali velshi. "on target" tonight, the great divide. forget what you hear, the middle east biggest conflict have little to do with united states. american investors wondering what's next? republican presidential hopeful mike huckabee's headline grabbing comments last weekend over iran and the holocaust, gave opportunity to feed a flaweflawed narrative about the middle east.

core complexities at the heart of the region's problems. complexities that america cannot afford to ignore if the united states is going to play a constructive role in fixing those problems. now in case you missed huckabee's remarks the former arkansas governor said that by trusting iran in a nuclear deal president obama is, quote, marching the israelis to the door of the oven. marching the israelis to the door of the urch. of the oven. president obama responded from ethiopia by saying it fit a pattern that would be ridiculous if it wasn't so sad, unquote, but tonight, much of the negative response to the nuclear agreement is based on a narrative about the middle east that boils down to us versus them. us being the united states and israel and the west in general.

them being a vaguely defined brand of islamic extremism defined to destroy western freedom. raging in this region involves an internal battle, involving shia and sunni, rather than us versus them but them versus them. in a new york times article headlined, wikileaks, saudi arabia versus iran. the story says quote clear in many of the cables are saudi fears of iranian influence and the shed of shia islam. saudi arabia is a nation dominated by sunni muslims. the great divide between shia

and sunni muslims is not easy but getting a grip is critical for anyone who cares about america's role in a region that has strategic and diplomatic importance, if your view on the region is based on a flawed narrative. i learned that firsthand during my recent reporting trip to iran. i gained a better perspective on the raging issue in the middle east. iran considers itself a influence in the middle east, and iran's regional influence is be bound to grow as sanction he arsare lifted. >> it's time for leaders to realize that iran is a major

player, live with it the same way they live with russia, with china, why not live with iran? if they decide to do that then they will encourage forces within iran that are willing and able to accommodate western interests. >> one thing that iran is eager to help the west with is confronting i.s.i.l. both iran and the u.s. back the iraqi government in the war against i.s.i.l. fighters, but in neighboring syria where i.s.i.l. also controls territory, iran and the u.s. work at cross purposes. that's because they back opposing sides in syria's civil war. in fact, in almost every contentious area and issue facing the middle east today syria, israel, yemen, and the flow of oil to the world, iran and the u.s. are on opposite sides.

nowhere is that more apparent than in the straight of hormuz, a narrow waterway that be connects the gulf and the indian ocean. 21 miles separates iran from the countries of the arabian peninsula on the other side. let me give you a sense of how close a choke point this is, american installations in be arab countries, iran considers that a threat, it has mind this area before. america is eescortin escorting s through the strait. it has before and it will continue to. hearts and minds of people living in the region. >> iran has a natural soft power in the hearts and minds of the shia populations.

in this part of the world and internationally. it's like the vatican for catholics. >> iran uses both military and soft power to give backing to shia parties in conflict zones throughout the middle east. in lebanon iran has long backed hezbollah in its fight against israel. the iranians have become a life line for syria's embattled president bashar al-assad. and iraq's shia-dominated government. iran has weighed in on the side of houthi rebels in yemen triggering a sectarian proxy war with sunni dominated saudi arabia. voices inside iran say it's now willing to use its influence in cooperation in the areas consuming the middle east today.

>> today iran has emerged as a major player. the islamic refltion has a lot of influence in -- revolution has a lot of influence in many parts of the islamic world. there are a lot of areas where iran can play a very prominent role in sorting out conflicts, resolving outstanding issues, particularly in dealing with peace and security in the region. >> well up next, centuries of mistrust between sunnis and shias is threatening any hope of peace in the middle east, but the divide goes beyond religion. i'll explain when we come back. ack.

>> my name is imran garda. the show is called "third rail". when you watch the show, you're gonna find us being unafraid. the topics will fascinate you... intrigue you. >> they take this seriously. >> let me quote you. >> there's a double standard. >> you can't be a hypocrite. >> you're gonna also get a show that's really fair, bold, never predictable. >> they should be worried about heart disease not terrorism. >> no, i wouldn't say

that at all. >> you'll see a show that has an impact on the conventional wisdom, that goes where nobody else goes. my name is imran garda, i'm the host of "third rail" - and you can find it on al jazeera america.

>> being a musician, there's no demand... >> world renowned artist lang lang >> the moment you're on stage, it's timeless >> be america'make's flawed us , pits sunni versus shia muslims. it's a fight you have to understand, to get a handle on proxy wars in the region. dean of johns hopkins school of international studies and written extensively. imr. nasser is the author of america in retreat. envoy to pakistan and afghanistan, the late richard holbrook. ali thank you very much for

being with us. >> thank you. >> let me ask you about this theory that i'm pos chu postulag here. bigger concern about the west. >> well, it's inter2009e interth one another between saudi arabia and iran about regional controls but even within regional countries there's a robust competition between who gets what in different communities. in some places like in iraq, the u.s. is supporting a shia government, in places like in syria we are opposed to a minority shia government's domination over the sunni

nation. a live and kicking conflict between two major sectarian denominations in that region for control and influence. >> would american policy in the region be better if it understood that dynamic more specifically? it is a little bit inconsistent. i mean that's one of the things that the iranians sort of complain about that americans tolerate one thing in one place sort of a shia-oriented minority government in syria but not in iraq. >> well, if we are to achieve our goals we have to understand why our conflicts are heapg, and what direction they might take. they might not be about us but because we have a dog in that fight and the outcome we ought to know why it's happening, why it is these countries are in civil war. for instance you can't understand i.s.i.s. in the middle east without understanding i.s.i.s. is a very stronglstrongly antishia antibei

force. if you don't understand that then you won't understand how you can defeat i.s.i.s. >> in the iranians in the story i just ran i spoke to one of the vice presidents of iran who pointed out that america and iran can work together in defeating i.s.i.s, they would actually like americans to see that as the greatest threat to the middle east. that is not been something that's played out until now. in fact we've seen americans actively avoiding collaboration with iranian --backed shia forcs in iraq. >> that's exactly the case. you can look at the issue from two different angles, stability versus terrorism issue and then we can think of many sunni countries being our main ally in fighting i.s.i.s, or you can look much more closely and see whether it's in syria or whether

it's in iraq that i.s.i.s. really speaks for the sunni objection to shia rule and to iranian influence and then it became the question of shia-sunni, because i.s.i.s. is a sunni force, then our allies would become iran and those who work with iran. and therefore when you look at it very up-close the sectarian factor matters a lot. when you look at it from a far you see it in a very different term. >> you have seen that the shia-sunni problem in the arab world doesn't include vaughn a dysfunction of arab political systems in that there's no uranium definition of identities. explain that. >> well, if you were from afar when you look at that region you say they you are all arab, all

oift as arab. there is no sense of citizenship in the sense that every individual irrespective of their religious background has the same rights or opportunities. if you are sunni or shia it decides what community within that country you belong to, what you get from the state are you at the top or the bottom. that basically means you really don't have a secular definition of citizenship but rather that people identify with sectarian communities. and power is distributed according to sectarian communities. so when you have countries like iraq or syria are broken up by civil war, the fight over power happens along sectarian and communal lines. >> is there something about that, that should inform american foreign policy in the region then? if we know that is there something we should be change going the way we try and help stability along in some of these inflations? inflations -- nations? >> the very first place where

this trapped us was in the case of iraq. when the united states invaded iraq it thought that the primary issue for iraqis would end up being democracy and iraqis are united in their desire for democracy. but democracy in iraq was not to the advantage of the sunnies who were going to lose power and it was to the benefit of the shias which had the numbers in their side. in the end we had a sectarian war. unless there is a way for shias and sunnis to get together and arrive at some kind of a power-sharing deal in syria in iraq in lebanon in other places where they think they have a situation where they can live with. right now, it is a basically fight to the knife who is going to take the spoils. no matter what we can't see stability in these countries, but help arrive at a peace

settlement. >> with all due respect, i'm speaking to someone who's written more about this than anyone else in the world. do you think this is going to after 1400 years being decided? >> the ideologic issue goes back 14 years, but they are fighting over who has control of the capital, who gets the presidency, who gets the oil revenue, who's the top dog. it is a very political fight, this is really an ethnic conflict if you would except ethnicity is along religious lines. unless there is a way they can agree to a sharing of power they will continue to fight. and being shia or sunni in the middle east is not a matter of whether you actually go to mosque or you practice. it's a matter of who you are. just like being you know, catholic or protestant in a christian country. it's part of your identity.

that is part of the issues you are dealing with. >> vali nasser. thank you for being with us. tomorrow, we take a look at the changing chess game of the democracies, knocking i.s.i.l. out of northern syria, it is a complicated picture that also involves turkey launching air strikes on the kurdish pkk group in northern iraq. i'll explain how these pieces fit together or don't fit together. steven cook on the council of foreign relations that's all up next, tomorrow on "on target." chinese stocks fell 8% on monday. i'll look at what effect that may have on you. ou. be able to

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entertaining. talk to al jazeera. only on al jazeera america. >> growing up fast. >> my quest is to find me and me is not here. >> fighting for a better future. >> if you don't go to college you're gonna end up dead on >> the chinese government likes to control most everything in china but lately it seems to be having trouble controlling the stock market. the hang seng lost 8% on monday. imagine if the stock market here lost that much. but china is different. take a look at this chart. you can see a steady rise in prices with turbulence starting to hit around june. today the stock market closed at 3725 points. even after all the turmoil it's still up 71% from the end of july 2014, up 50% this year alone. pretty good return. since early july the chinese

government last taken bold steps to maintain stability in the stock market, worked for a while but today's drop shows the limitations of the government's efforts to support the market. many of you might be invested in china's market mainly through exchange-traded funds. some of you may have active mutual funds as well. if you have to maintain some risk can they maintain their market run by a communist market. symon thank you so much for being here. >> good to be here. >> are you worried about this turn in the chinese market? >> you have to be worried to a certain extent but it's important to put it in context. we have seen a nice return in the chinese market and many of the investors are sitting on gains. the reason we would be concerned is that the last part of the rally that big spike until the middle of june was driven by a

lot of margin finance. a lot of people went into debt to finance their investment in this market and as that market is turning down they are starting to unwind that and there would be repercussions absolutely. >> whenever we see markets, economies having problems, we worry about contagion. bad things in greece affect us, bad things all over the place. china is going to be the biggest economy in the world. is this a sign there's a problem in china or is this stock market specific. >> this is very much stock market specific in china. the economy is not the market and the market is not the economy. in america we're used to the market being a discounting of the future. in china this last been very, very retail speculation driven. to a certain extent it was encouraged by the government. this run up in the market was encouraged by the government because it gave them a very nice way of hoping that indebted

corporates were going to be able to use a higher market to be able to raise funds, pay down debt, repair balance sheets. in terms of the crash on the economy again we need to put it into context. if you look at household wealth in china 75% of that household wealth is in property. if you look at the last 25%, only 10% of that remaining 25% so only 2.5% of total assets are are invested in the h seng directly. broad based impact i think consumption as a whole is going to continue to grow, the economy is growing at 7%, don't forget that. yes expectations are being revised down but this is not a doomsday economy for the chinese as a whole.

>> many invested in chinese equities, some may be doing it with a mutual fund or exchange traded fund. you haven't as a stock investor in china over the last ten or 15 years your performance hasn't matched the growth generally speaking. >> the market in the last ten years until two or three years ago was performing very poorly which was a distinct disconnect, with the economy growing ten, 11, 12%. don't forget the a share market, not a deep securities, no 401(k), no equities based retirement, this is not a market in which historically the investors have had a lot of experience in analyzing companies, discounting sphooufn casdiscounting cashflows. >> you buy a stock and like it. >> recently the government has

been saying buy that stock. >> let's talk a little bit about how one should invest in china. one might say this is a buying opportunity. if you are invested in the stock market you probably own a good deal of china with the without even knowing it. >> you already hold a lot of china if you are invested in china the growth story of apple is the smartphone and the iphone in china. if you are invested in any of the global car companies same thing, fast food you have a lot ever chinese be market. now there is value in the china market starting to appear. one of the things a lot of people don't understand about the china market is if you look at some of the big state owned enterprises, some of the cyclicals, those are trading at overy good value now. the internet the health care those are the stocks that are trading at 40, 50, 60 times

earnings and are still there on stratospheric earnings. >> some people tell you buy exchange traded funds or index funds where you're not paying a management fee. this could be an instance where you can pay a management fee because they can determine the difference between a well valued growth company or a company versus something with this high priced earnings ratio that might be too expensive. >> absolutely. they will be able to find for you stocks that are not only reasonably valued but do have that growth story. don't forget a lot of the state oanoanldowned enterprises, thats affected them. if you believe that the reduction in interest rates that we're seeing is going to revive those cyclicals, there are some quite interesting stories there. you want to be avoiding these highly speculative companies where we don't know what the

earnings are. fortunately for foreign investors a lot of those are listed in the shanghai a share marked and the shenzen market, both listed in shanghai shenzen and hong kong, those aren't trading in as high valuations because there hasn't been the mainland speculation influence on those companies. >> symon males at aerbach grayson. that is our show for tonight. i'm ali velshi. thank you for joining us. s.

>>. >> fighting i.s.i.l. turkey calls for help from n.a.t.o. allies to counter the growing threat opening a door. >> i support a policy that accepts and respects a different perspective and belief the buoy scouts reverse a ban an gay leaders, but leave room for local discrimination. defending the deal. >> it's not the kind of leadership that is needed for